575 - An Alternative to Habits for Creative Brains with ADHD Neuroscientist Anne-Laure Le Cunff
Creative Pep Talk
In this episode, neuroscientist Anne-Laure LeCompte introduces a flexible alternative to traditional habit formation, specifically designed
Key takeaways
- Anne-Laure LeCompte suggests replacing permanent habits with 'pacts,' which are time-bound commitments to curiosity (e.g., meditating for 10 days).
- The 'field notes' method involves 24 hours of nonjudgmental self-anthropology to observe life without assumptions.
Main topics
- ADHD and Curiosity
- Tiny Experiments vs. Habits
Notable quotes
A pact is a commitment to curiosity for a set period of time.
Conclusion
By embracing experimentation and nonjudgmental observation, individual
Transcript preview
Speaker 3 (0:00) Do you hate habits, trying to have habits, new habits? I almost just, it's almost like a trigger word for me in my, I'm like, oh, I started a new habit. Like I feel that way. Or do you hate yourself because you're so bad at having good habits? If that's you, this episode is for you because today on the show, we have someone who has completely revolutionized the way that I think about. changing behaviors, doing new things, moving towards a life that I want that's more interesting to me, that goes beyond goal setting or habit creation. And it works so much better for my nonlinear creative brain. So it might just work for you. Her name is Anne-Laure LeCompte. She wrote the book, Tiny Experiments. We are going to have a doozy of a conversation on our hands today. This was a blast. Honestly, these shifts that we talk about have made a big difference in my creative life, but also my everyday life. They have made me more excited about my own life and less frustrated. And so I can't wait to get to this. She is a neuroscientist. in the fields of psychology and neuroscience. This is just a good episode. You're going to like it. She's great and such a brilliant thinker. And I think your creative brains are just going to really, really soak this up. I'll be back at the end with our creative call to adventure. It's called Create a Pact. We're going to create a pact. I promise that it's not culty. It's a totally different thing. We're going to talk about it in this episode. And then I'll be back to talk about how you can make one of these to help experiment with your creativity in life in a way that is life-giving instead of soul-crushing. I'll be back with that. But for now, enjoy this chat that I had with Anne-Laure LeCompte. Speaker 2 (2:12) The Speaker 3 (2:19) first thing I was going to ask you about was you have a PhD in psychology and neuroscience, right? Speaker 1 (2:28) Yes, I Speaker 3 (2:29) do. Now, that doesn't always align with people that got kicked out of school. So that feels kind of surprising to me. Could you tell us a little bit about how that ended up happening? Like, how are these both true? Speaker 1 (2:42) Yes, I actually had a very nonlinear career. When I did my PhD in psychology and neuroscience, I was the oldest student in the entire cohort because that's not where I started. So I did get kicked out of school as a kid when I was 13. And then I did studies that were a little bit more in business and creativity. I started my career at Google and I absolutely loved it, but it felt a bit too rigid for my way of thinking and working. I only started the psychology and neuroscience research in my late 20s. And by this time. I went back to university not because I wanted to get a degree, but because I was genuinely excited to explore and learn. That means that I did my entire PhD degree without caring about any of the outcomes that you normally care about as an academic. And I really just focused on having fun. And I was very lucky to, which is important, I think, in any work environment, I was very lucky to have a supervisor who gave me a lot of freedom. So she cared about the research output. She cared about making sure that I was applying critical thinking, that I was using the right neuroscientific techniques. But whether I arrived in the lab at 9 a.m. or 12 p.m. and I left at 1 p.m. or... 10 p.m. And whether my notes were nice and tidy or they were completely messy, she didn't care at all. So I would say it's a combination of having the privilege of being able to go back and study a little bit later in life where you know yourself a little bit better and you know what you want. And you also have the ability to ask for what you want. And in this case, also having an amazing manager. I Speaker 3 (4:48) love that. And it makes sense. The difference between somebody who is your boss or manager or mentor who understands your strengths and weaknesses and what really matters, it can make all the difference. But I love what you said, because this is something I'm always telling students. It took me my three years in college. I went to college in the UK, actually. And my three years, it took me until maybe the halfway through to realize like, oh, I just need to make this what I want it to be. And the grades aren't really important. I want to pass, but I want to make every project what I need it to be to go where I'm trying to go. Is that kind of what you're saying? Like you were just, you were just doing, you were taking that space and using it the way that you wanted to use it. Speaker 1 (5:32) Absolutely. But I again want to acknowledge the privilege of being able to do this because I started my PhD. I had already worked at Google. I had already received many more traditional accolades. I also was making my own money writing online, doing consulting. And so I didn't need to compete with all of the PhD students and build the most impressive academic CV possible. That's also why it's much harder for someone who is at the beginning of their career to do what I did, because they might still be in that very linear career path where success is still measured based on those traditional metrics. Speaker 3 (6:19) Yeah, sure. I talk to creative people on the show. A lot of people that listen to the show are neurodivergent or ADHD. And it's a delicate balance. I've got an almost 18-year-old who is ADHD. And we're trying to navigate this tightrope because when I was 17 or 18, I was watching my mom, who I believe is ADHD. I believe that's where I got it. I noticed like... She's only able to show up long-term, like in a significant, meaningful way in things that match her interests and curiosity and obsessions and all that kind of stuff. And so as we're coaching my daughter, we're trying to find that tightrope because it is a privilege, obviously, to be able to do the things that you want to do. But at the same time, if you're ADHD. It's also kind of do or die because you're not really going to show up in a meaningful way long term on something that you absolutely have no interest in. Right. So I how do you do you still think about that balance? Because now that you're out of school and you're doing studies and you're doing all that stuff, how do you strike that balance of those things? Speaker 1 (7:27) Yeah, absolutely. And this is the topic of my current research, which is still very early and I'm still collecting data. But we do see that there is an association between ADHD and curiosity and in particular with hyperactivity, impulsivity and curiosity. And so this is a very real experience that people have where they need to feel curious about their work in order to really commit to it and stick with it over the long term. I would say in terms of finding that balance that we are very lucky to live in an era where you can actually design all sorts of weird, really weird careers now. You can... Really, you can work at the intersection of two really nerdy topics where you might be the only person on earth who has that very particular kind of knowledge. You can work from anywhere. You can have two different jobs. And this is kind of what I do at the moment. I'm technically employed at King's College London, which is a university. And I'm also running my own business. This would have been really difficult to do even 20 years ago. But right now I can. And so. I would say that instead of trying to find a perfect balance where we control our curiosity and we try to apply it to things that make sense in a very linear sense of the term, when we design traditional careers, to think outside the box and to ask yourself, what am I actually curious about? Start from there. Don't apply any limitations yet. What am I curious about? What is something where... If nobody was watching, if traditional markers of success were out of the equation, what would be something I would be really excited to wake up in the morning and explore, keep on exploring on my own? Let's start with that. Based on that, what kind of career can I start experimenting with that would allow me to explore this curiosity? Speaker 3 (9:30) I absolutely love that. It reminds me of one of my favorite quotes. I don't know a lot about Rick Rubin, but I love this quote. And he said, the audience comes last. And what I love about that is it's a really like non-dual way of thinking about it. It's not, it's non-binary. It's not just listen to yourself. It's not just listen to the audience. It's, it's an order. It's a process. It's saying the audience comes last. They're part of the equation and same goes for like. making money and figuring out the career, all of that, it's important, but don't start there. And I try to do the same thing with this