Coping With Quitting

Coping

Hosts Alice Griffin and Jannah Anderson explore the cultural stigma surrounding quitting, examining why stepping away from long-held goals still feels like failure

Key takeaways

• Harry Styles sparked retirement rumors after stating 'I don't know what comes next,' highlighting the tension between fan entitlement and artistic autonomy.
• Simone Biles' mid-Olympics withdrawal in Tokyo 2021 is highlighted as a radical, inspiring example of prioritizing mental health over public output.

Main topics

• Quitting vs. perseverance
• Identity and self-worth beyond achievement

Notable quotes

"I don't know what comes next for me."

Conclusion

The episode ultimately argues that quitting should be decoupled from shame and viewed

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Oh, you're old. Speaker 2 (0:08) I'm Alice Griffin. I'm Jenna Anderson. And we're Coping, the podcast about why Speaker 1 (0:12) life feels like this. Each week, we rethink the stories we've been sold and the ones that we tell ourselves with the context that makes everything finally click. Speaker 2 (0:20) And this week we're coping with quitting. I Speaker 1 (0:22) don't know about you, but I was definitely told by my grandma, if at first you don't succeed, try again. Speaker 2 (0:29) And Speaker 1 (0:29) I think that's probably pretty universal, this idea of winners never quit. We should all be persevering. But lately it feels like there's a bit more of a nuanced approach to quitting and all things stepping away in culture. But first, as always, Janna, how are you coping? I've been trying to tell you all week that I am not coping. There is a moth migration. A moth epidemic, yes. And I've been trying to convey my absolute terror and I feel you're not taking me seriously. Speaker 2 (0:57) So for a little bit of context, millions of moths were migrating to a different region, but because the weather has been so windy, they blew off course and now they're all through coastal Sydney and coastal New South Wales right now. So there is currently millions of native moths that have descended across our doorstep and Jana is really feeling it. But do you agree that you weren't taking me seriously? I actually think of all the infestations that we have been faced with. The mouse plague. Moths, I feel like, should be the least of our worries. It's annoying, but I'm not... petrified like you are. This Speaker 1 (1:30) has been since childhood. I've had a specific fear of moths. And last night we were hosting a really beautiful session of silent reading at the studio and we have big, beautiful windows. We're located in Surry Hills. It's lovely. Speaker 2 (1:41) You Speaker 1 (1:41) should come by. It's normally, it's Speaker 2 (1:44) a Speaker 1 (1:44) lot. Because it's silent reading, we have these beautiful curtains that we drape over to cut out all the natural light. And we have a really cozy, you know, lamp led evening. And everyone was inside. They were all silently reading. And I unfurled the curtain and I joined. enormous moth was in the curtain. I obviously Speaker 2 (2:02) swiftly took one for the team and got rid of the moth and I don't think anyone noticed despite your theatrics of like jumped out of her skin. They are quite hideous to be fair but did you know that bugon moths are actually an endangered species? Yes that's why we should be grateful. It's Speaker 1 (2:17) all over Speaker 2 (2:17) the Speaker 1 (2:17) news of don't kill them not that I would even be able to. No. But you can't kill them you're meant to just be what shepherding them on. Speaker 2 (2:25) On their merry way. For our listeners who aren't in Sydney or New South Wales right now, we're speaking about this a lot because it is an epidemic. I opened up my car door and five moths came flying out. In your car? Yeah, in the car. They're everywhere right now. You cannot escape them. If they were in my car, Speaker 1 (2:40) I've been known to Speaker 2 (2:41) - Speaker 1 (2:41) I'm kind of fine. I get out of a moving car. There's been a cockroach coming over the dashboard and I just left the car in traffic. Yeah, Speaker 2 (2:47) you will be on a freeway and I'll just see you rolling out. Speaker 1 (2:51) Everyone's looking at me and I was like, no. And someone who was in my passenger seat had to die. over to the driver's seat to put the car into park and I just was... I'm really happy that I'm the competent one. Speaker 2 (2:59) Any kind of animals or infestations, I'm the one to call. Who are you going to call? Me. Speaker 1 (3:04) What about you? How are you coping? Speaker 2 (3:06) I am coping pretty well. I'm really excited because I got my nails done, which sounds so basic, Speaker 1 (3:12) guys. It's Speaker 2 (3:12) been a long time coming. I normally... have my nails done constantly all the time you'll never catch me without my acrylics on with a fun cute design but I had about six to seven months off and I genuinely think I lost a bit of my sparkle I lost a bit of my personality but I'm so back Speaker 2 (3:30) But I did interview a little while ago for another podcast project that we did called Little Things. I interviewed Vic Hollis, who is an incredible nail designer. And we were talking on the podcast about how nails are such an expression Speaker 1 (3:42) of self. How do you go about choosing the design? Speaker 2 (3:45) Off I pop onto Speaker 1 (3:46) Pinterest. Speaker 2 (3:46) Oh, really? I don't have, yeah, I'm not out here doing my own designs. Although if I do get my nails done with Vic, she designs them for me and then she'll do some incredible works of art. But otherwise I pop off to Pinterest and I just pick a design I like and no need to reinvent the wheel. I just get fun things. My next ones are going to be ghosts for Halloween in keeping with. Speaker 2 (4:05) Your episode on coping with ghosts? Speaker 1 (4:07) Yes, Speaker 2 (4:07) which is going to happen. I think we kept it in one of the most recent podcasts. Yeah, great. Where we were talking about what will our Halloween episode be? And I've slowly just Speaker 1 (4:15) - No Speaker 2 (4:15) one was wondering. I've slowly just worn Janet down. I brought it up enough times that she's like, okay, we'll do coping with ghosts. I can't wait. Speaker 1 (4:23) Yeah, I feel I'll be scared for that one. Okay, well, great. I'll give you some homework. You'll be absolutely Speaker 2 (4:28) fine. Don't worry. You can't be more scared of that than the moths. Speaker 1 (4:36) Post-COVID, post-pandemic, there was what everyone was calling the Great Resignation, where millions and millions of people around the world just voluntarily up and quit their jobs. Were you one of Speaker 2 (4:46) them? I think I did this before the trend. Speaker 1 (4:49) I love the dramatic exit. Even now, six years on, quitting is still so much more socially acceptable than it used to be. At least on the surface. Speaker 2 (4:59) Yes. Speaker 1 (4:59) So I would argue that recent events show that internal bias still runs super deep against quitting and recent events are obviously pertaining to Harry Styles. It's important to disclose I am a fan. Speaker 2 (5:12) Yeah, and it's important to disclose that I'm not a fan for a few different reasons of which we may or may not get into. Speaker 1 (5:17) So basically there have been Harry Styles retirement rumours circulating. It was sparked initially by an interview that Harry did with W Magazine. He got pretty jealous coded, I have to say. He got pretty existential. He said, and I quote, who am I if I don't do this? Yes, a quote we've said many a times on this podcast. Then there was a really cryptic email to fans where all he was trying to do was announce the final dates of the Together Together tour for 2027. And he wrote in the email, after that, I don't know what comes next for me. Obviously, there was a huge outcry from fans. He kind of then had to soften the sentiment. He was on stage. that I'm not trying to be dramatic. I just want to share with you. Speaker 2 (5:59) Yeah, I don't know if I saw it as a full walk back. If he wanted to walk this back, he would have said, I've loved this experience with you. I can't wait to see you again. But he particularly didn't say that. He said, I want to share where my head's at with you. I've had some life experiences that have made me think about what I'm doing with my time and all that. So I do feel it's a soft launch to a retirement. Am I devastated? No. Speaker 1 (6:22) Am I sad for fans who might be devastated? yes well I think the main thing is fans are devastated yeah but I as a fan my opinion isn't devastation yeah Speaker 2 (6:32) it Speaker 1 (6:32) is that I think the reaction has been pretty unfair okay well what yeah what's the reaction been I guess the underlying message is like you owe us more or what do you mean you're our favorite artist like we want all of xyz yeah okay I guess My difficulty with it is we ask for this kind of radical sincerity from artists. Speaker 2 (6:51) We want Speaker 1 (6:52) to know what's going on in their brains and why they are the way that they are and why they're putting out the music that they're doing. But then we get super uncomfortable when we actually get it. I think the statement of I don't know what comes next to me feels more like a person thinking out loud and having that transparent feeling out loud. I think in the world of PR and media around artists, it is always kind of a certain plan, next dates, it's a see you soon, it's this kind of certainty of what's coming. And I think in an environment that's normally built on certainty, this uncertainty can almost sound confrontational. The Speaker 2 (7:25) cynical side of me is also thinking about... the why now of releasing this and talking about this because obviously this album particularly and this tour hasn't been as popular as his past works. He's not at the peak of his success. It makes sense for him to tactically, I suppose, retreat for a few years and reconsider what he's doing and then come back all guns blazing. This would feel more shocking to me if he was at the height of Harry's house. Well, I'm sure you're right that the response to the Together Together tour and album has a part to play Speaker 1 (7:56) in this but I think it leads us into a broader conversation of is more more still for artists and like the pop star blueprint I suppose I think there is something again radical about someone actively dismantling the notion that they owe the public constant production constant public access constant Speaker 2 (8:14) output Having even someone in the upper heights of quote unquote success taking a minute to be like, I don't know why I'm doing this anymore, does remind me of some people who've been really radical when they've spoken about quitting before. And my favorite, of course, is Simone Biles. So Simone Biles at the Tokyo Olympic Games back in 2021 quit mid Olympic Games. And then when someone asked her why she wanted to quit, she said, to focus on my well-being, there is more to life than just gymnastics. Speaker 1 (8:45) Isn't that the truth? Speaker 2 (8:46) I think it's really cool to be like, it might be the Olympics, but I'm worth more than my output here. And my mental health is worth more than any accolade I could get or any amount of pressure that is