Coping With Labels
Coping
Hosts Alice Griffin and Jannah Anderson explore the psychological implications of self-imposed and societal labels. They trace the dubious s
Key takeaways
- The Type A and Type B framework was originally developed by cardiologists Maya Friedman and Ray Rosenman to explain heart disease risk.
- Big Tobacco funded the mainstreaming of the 'stress-induced' heart disease narrative to divert attention from smoking.
Main topics
- Personality Type Frameworks
- The History of Type A/B Research
Notable quotes
To be loved is to be known.
Conclusion
While labels can provide a helpful framework for self-reflection, they
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Oh, you're old. You get fucking... Speaker 1 (0:08) I'm Alice Griffin. I'm Jenna Anderson. And we're coping the podcast about why life feels like this. Each week we Speaker 2 (0:15) rethink the stories we've been sold and the ones that we tell ourselves with the context that makes everything finally Speaker 1 (0:20) click. And this week we're coping with labels. We're Speaker 2 (0:23) all pretty much defined by labels, whether it's the ones that we give ourselves, ones we give each other, the ones society imposes on each other. It's endless. But do they just actually give us a really helpful framework? to understand ourselves by. Speaker 1 (0:37) Yeah, or are they a super limiting way for us to view ourselves and the world? But before we get into it, Janna, as always, got to ask you, how have you been coping this past week? Speaker 2 (0:47) Well, coping well today, for the listeners, this is our very first coping podcast episode with a live audience member. Oh, maybe we Speaker 1 (0:55) should move her in Speaker 2 (0:55) frame. I can't get up now. Okay, fine. But just know that little Mango is here at the studio. Janna's dog. She's sleeping now, but... Really enthralled at all of the times. It's a good test case though, because we do have some fun things coming up in the pipeline where we will be having live audiences at the Coping Studio for the Coping Podcast specifically. Speaker 1 (1:17) Yes. And you know what? I was just thinking about this because last week we were talking about how I have to put the blinkers on and pretend that you and I are just chatting and that there's no audience or anyone listening ever. So mango is really good practice for me to get over that fear. I was then thinking, That's actually unfair to our lovely listeners who do leave really nice reviews on our podcast. It Speaker 2 (1:40) is unfair. Speaker 1 (1:40) I thought that at the Speaker 2 (1:41) time, guys. Speaker 1 (1:43) I just want to take a moment and shout out the person who left us a comment who said, I really love this podcast. It's super insightful. I do think you should listen just for the accents alone. That's one of our American listeners. Thank you so much for tuning in. Anyone Speaker 2 (1:56) else who wants to leave us a fab review? It does really actually help us in all seriousness. If you could pop us a little... five stars if you've been listening to Coping Every Week. Better yet, if you let us know what you're coping with and give us some inspiration Speaker 1 (2:10) for our next pod topic. You should see the mind map that we have of all the possible episodes we're going to do from here. So it is good to know like what's resonating with people, what people want to hear more about from us, just so that we can whittle it down from the 100 plus episode list ideas that we have. Or at least put them in an order. Yeah, maybe we can just prioritize a little bit, which is not my So I do appreciate Eddie and all help on that front. So lately, Jana, I have been thinking so much about the endless videos I see of the type A versus the type B friend. Obviously, we know what both mean, I'm assuming. Type A being super organized, being really ahead of the pack. Actually, the best way to think about it might actually be when you go on holidays. Okay. So when you go on holidays, if you are a type A person, you would have packed your suitcase days before you have your colour coordinated luggage. You will have, if you're really type A, you know the little slips that you can get in your suitcases where you like have your underwear bag, you have your this bag, you have it all perfectly organised. Speaker 2 (3:16) You're saying it like such a foreign concept. Speaker 1 (3:19) You can tell Speaker 2 (3:20) what I am. I'm like, whoa. Speaker 1 (3:21) Well, I'm really impressed when people do this, truly. If you're type B. Things might be a little different. You know, when you see that poor person at the airport, and I must confess, it has for sure been me, and they go up to where they drop off their bags and then the attendants are like, I'm so sorry, your bag's overweight. You're going to have to lose things right here, right now. And then you see the person open up the bag and there's just mess. I'm Speaker 2 (3:45) just thinking back to all the times we've caught Jetstar flights together and you have had paid no regard to how much your carry-on luggage is and inevitably they get out the scales as we're trying to get on the plane. You're only meant to have seven kilos and consistently you've had close to 20 kilos. Speaker 2 (4:01) Including what I can never get over is a steamer that's still full of Speaker 1 (4:05) water. Yes. See, this is what I mean. This kind of behavior is exactly the type B behavior you see propagating on TikTok and the kinds of things I would directly send to you. So no surprises who I am, a type B girl through and through brushing my hair as I arrive at the studio, my bag full of random accoutrements. What about you though? What would you say you are? What would you say I am? See, you are the walking antithesis of why personality labels don't work, actually, because I would say you are type A. However, if you'd asked me in the first six months of our friendship, I would say type A to a T. Now, two or three years down the line, I'm really thinking, is she actually an undercover type B? Because the way that your car has been left in disarray, I've never seen anything like it. I would say I'm type A on the clock. Yes. And type Z off the clock. Speaker 2 (4:59) But I think when you're so switched on all the time, something's got to give. It's my personal life, unfortunately. Speaker 1 (5:05) I think we can't help but try and categorize ourselves by these very casual terms that supposedly describe our whole personalities. But when I actually started looking into the type A and the type B framework specifically, what you realize is none of this is actually backed in any science whatsoever. It's so interesting when Speaker 2 (5:25) things like this become what you can only call... a phenomenon. Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:29) A Speaker 2 (5:29) mainstream phenomenon. And then with some very light digging, you realize any Joe Blow can find out that this is just. no actual standing behind it, but it's something we all bandy around so often. Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:42) And there's even some more dark undertones to this type A, type B conversation because why this research really caught hold in the culture is actually thanks to big tobacco, Jana. Do you want me to fill you in? Yes, this is so interesting. So type A and type B framework was actually created by two cardiologists. So not even psychological researchers, Maya Friedman and Ray Rosenman. And they were trying to explain heart disease risk. This was something they looked into back in the 1950s when they were trying to figure out why two people who were the same age, who had the same kind of outwardly healthy traits and lifestyles. One of those people developed coronary heart disease and the other person didn't. So according to their loose quote unquote research, the only kind of major factor between you getting heart disease and me not getting heart disease was the fact that you were type A and stressed and I was more laid back, chilled type B person. Speaker 2 (6:38) So Speaker 1 (6:39) Big Tobacco came across this study and thought, you know what? this is really beneficial for us because if people are actually more likely to get heart disease because they are quote unquote stressed versus the fact that one of these people are massive smokers, that's a really convenient thing for us to wheel out. So they put a huge amount of funding into making this narrative really push through to the mainstream. You Speaker 2 (7:01) know who's Taipei? Who? Big tobacco. Speaker 2 (7:07) They've gone so far out of their way and spent so, so, so, so much money. Yeah. You know what it does remind me of? The love Speaker 1 (7:15) languages, which is Speaker 2 (7:16) another mainstream theory that everyone uses and wheels out in their own romantic relationships. But when you dig into that one, it comes from this random pastor who was trying to mediate a couple's relationship in his church. Yeah, Speaker 1 (7:29) literally based on no actual research or studies whatsoever. Also with the type A, type B thing, there's also a type C. And truly justice for type C because they sound Speaker 2 (7:40) great. It's very analytical, very detail oriented, thrives with logic and structure and accuracy. They do like to avoid conflict. When I was reading about this, it did make me think of the house of Hufflepuff because everyone only Speaker 1 (7:54) cares Speaker 2 (7:54) about Gryffindor Speaker 1 (7:55) and Slytherin. And it's like, oh. And what's Speaker 2 (7:58) the Speaker 1 (7:58) other one? Hufflepuff and Ravenclaw. Ravenclaw. Okay, so I was never a Harry Potter girl, so I don't know any of these. I Speaker 2 (8:04) feel that intellectual aesthetic girls are like, I'm Ravenclaw because I'm Speaker 1 (8:08) smart. So Hufflepuff is kind of like the... Forgotten one. Yeah, the Speaker 2 (8:11) forgotten child, Speaker 1 (8:12) just like type C. The Maya Briggs personality tests too are so popular and again, not rooted in any scientific backing. When people do them again at a later stage, they find out they have a completely different personality type to what they did. two weeks ago. There's also the Enneagram that you raised my attention to. Is that how you say it? Enneagram. Speaker 2 (8:34) It's giving an Speaker 1 (8:35) enemy. I know it's Speaker 2 (8:36) giving Speaker 1 (8:36) Finding Nemo. Speaker 2 (8:37) Well, just to say that Enneagram does have more peer-reviewed