From Ranger to Rancher: Picking a Fight With Big Food | Patrick Montgomery | Ep. 473

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In this episode, Patrick Montgomery discusses his transition from a member of the 75th Ranger Regiment to an entrepreneur in the cattle indu

Key takeaways

• Patrick Montgomery recounts the traumatic experience of receiving a death notification for his brother-in-law during his first deployment.
• The speakers emphasize that clarity in military death notifications is more important than providing comfort through vague language.

Main topics

• Military-to-civilian transition
• Combat loss and grief

Notable quotes

Clarity of verbiage is incredibly important... you need to be definitive in what you're saying.

Conclusion

A profound look at finding purpose through loss and using historical l

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:01) Okay, got the red smoke. Okay, copy. West of the smoke. I'm looking at danger close Speaker 1 (0:12) now. Speaker 2 (0:13) Come on, win it, baby. Give it to me. I need Speaker 1 (0:15) it. You're clear hot. Copy. Clear hot. Speaker 2 (0:19) Dude, Rangers right now are talking some serious shit online about the SEAL community. It was not surprising. Why, though? Why do Speaker 1 (0:28) we have to do that to each other? I think it's like... Well, that's kind of a measuring contest, right? Is it, though? I figured after the GWAT, Speaker 2 (0:37) all we realize. So I'm glad I served prior to 9-11 for a little bit. It gave me a really good insight into what the pre-military or pre-pre-military, pre-war military looked like. And absent an enemy, our core competency was fighting each other. And I don't even mean the other. Of course, we were just lobbing. Like infighting within the teams, Kennedy? Oh, my God. So all the odd number teams are on the West Coast. So 1-3-5 and now 7. I wouldn't share information with a dude I went to Bud's with. He was on the other side of a chain link. I could watch him. We would park in the same parking lot and hit a stupid code and walk in. We did enough infighting, let alone, I'm sure, like I said, lobbing just shit grenades into. Other communities. But at this point, man, after 20 years, what are we doing? It became, you know, when I first came in, it was the Army's green and we're blue and Marines are red. And then they just pour us all into the soup of post 9-11. And we worked awesome together and we all shared information and we all helped each other. And we all got better because of that experience. And now that it's winding down, do we really have to? Speaker 1 (1:50) Well, you know, I think one of the things. Because you guys catch a ton of flack for books and Hollywood and everything else. What seals are writing books? What are you even talking about? I have no idea. I have no idea what you're talking about, Andy. I Speaker 2 (2:03) saw you buy one at the coffee shop today. I did, man. I would Speaker 1 (2:05) have Speaker 2 (2:05) just given you one. Speaker 1 (2:05) No, I want to support, right? Like, I think it's important. And, you know, to that point of like, why do we do that? It's like, you guys crushed it at marketing, right? And I think we're all kind of a little bit like, we talk about the quiet professional. Yeah. Which is different than the silent professional, by the way. It's different. It's different. And like, you know, I think everybody, you know, got tired of the war stories for a little bit. And we're kind of at this point. I like at least my internal groups like. I feel like a lot of that's stopping or it's like, hey, I was this community. You were this community. You tell me a story. I've got Speaker 2 (2:40) to run up it. It is the vocal minority, I think, at this point. And people keep sending me, it's a particular podcast, which I can't remember the name of, and that's not throwing shade at them. I just can't remember it. And they're basically saying like, oh, yeah, you know, well, this objective I was on, the SEALs fell short, this, that, or the other. I'm like, welcome to the reality of combat operations. Find me a military unit. that hasn't stepped all over their crank a few times. And I'll give you my net worth, which is really low sum of money, by the way. So it's not going to be that much, but I mean, you know, they want to, they want to throw shade on, it was one particular objective. I don't think they named it. Of course they stayed broad, but tried to be specific. And it's like, listen guys, do we really need to go into the. Tillman incident and talk about internal issues in our own communities. Like, yes, you can point at me. I don't want to point back at you. Let's just all accept that we did the best that we could. And as communities, which are just comprised of individuals, sometimes you fall Speaker 1 (3:42) short. Hopefully you can learn from that, but what are we doing? Well, I think humanity in general, especially at this time period is not the best at self-reflection, right? And being like the plank in that own eye before I start. talking poo poo about somebody else. Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:56) It Speaker 1 (3:57) does trend though. Silent majority on or silent minority online. Like it is the loudest across the board. So man, Speaker 2 (4:04) how Speaker 1 (4:05) do you like being in business? Uh, it depends on the day, right? Harder Speaker 2 (4:10) or Speaker 1 (4:10) easier than the military stuff. It's way harder. Like exponentially harder people. It's funny. Cause I'll talk to like my mentors and they'll be like, Pat, like you've done way harder than this. I'm like, no, I haven't. It's so different. Speaker 2 (4:23) I am currently in the middle of just getting kicked in the teeth on business stuff. Not that the mechanics and the day-to-day, but we made some mistakes on the structural backend when we first created the entities that control the operation, which are now coming to fruition, which there's no time machine. You don't get to go back. Nope. You do get to write checks though. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. I like to call those tuition payments. Same here. That's the only way that I've been able to not ask myself, should it be toothbrush or six shooter in the morning? Speaker 1 (4:56) A hundred percent. I mean, some days like there's no, there's no just like constant homeostasis when you're owning, it's either like you are down, down and your life is miserable or you're like this. new mountaintop that you never reached before. There's never like just a man, what an average day I had at work today. I tell people I was just in Speaker 2 (5:19) Arizona, uh, doing a speech for an organization and we're talking about leadership. I love talking about leadership with civilian organizations. And I think a lot of people, when they hear that I publicly speak, they think I'm going to take the leadership model and try to explain it. I actually use caution and I tell people, Maybe don't replicate at all the military leadership model in the civilian world because you guys don't have the buy-in that we did. I mean, it takes about two years to get somebody from the initial sign on the dotted line into a team. They're going to be there probably for the right reasons. Having said that, my Bud's class honor man ended up chopping people up with his wife. And, you know, so there are Speaker 1 (6:03) outliers, right? Maybe we're not bad apples in Speaker 2 (6:05) each organization there for the right reasons. Every filter, you know, has small holes. There's weeds in every lawn regardless of the size. But if you think you can take the way that we could very authoritatively or. Speaker 2 (6:24) what would be the best word, directly push people at times. If I tried to do that, I tell people, I'll give them the choice. I'm like, okay, 16 guys, SEAL platoon, overseas deployment, 30 employees, coffee shop, average age 22, 98 % young women. Which one do you think is more challenging? And they actually all guessed correctly because it's Speaker 1 (6:50) not. The SEAL platoon. Did you struggle with that, like, shift in mentality of, like, how you treated a SEAL platoon versus, like, hey, no, I'm a leader of people like this where if I say the wrong thing, it doesn't go over very well sometimes. Fortunately, I had about a decade to. Speaker 2 (7:08) reorient my compass. And I own the coffee shop, but the smartest thing I did was develop a management team that manages the shop. So I'm in there. And one of the main reasons I'm in there is I want the staff to see that I care. And what I try to do every day, whether they realize it or not, when I come in, I'll see something that needs to be done and I just go do it. Speaker 1 (7:27) And I Speaker 2 (7:28) say nothing, whether it's trash on the floor or today I went in there, we were having a good day. There was a line. So I go hop up to the till. I tell people I'm not very good at this thing, but we'll get through this together. And also I need your drink order to be really not complex. I fall Speaker 1 (7:42) apart when I have to work at the freaking, the Shopify. I'm like, wait, but I can do it. Speaker 2 (7:46) I can do it, but I don't ask the staff, Hey, do you need help? I just hop in there and I do it. And sometimes it's again, you know, picking up trash or putting the chairs. back where they need to be or sweeping up crumbs on the floor. And then I'll go check in with the management team for about 10 minutes and I get out Speaker 1 (8:00) of there. Well, and those are the lessons you learned from the military, right? Like how much it means to subordinates when you do a job that you're asking them to do, right? And you have- Dude, it means everything. Everything. And also always be looking for Speaker 2 (8:12) work. Yep. Always, there's always something to do. The proactive versus reactive mindset. And again, I don't know if they see it or not, but I'm not going to stop doing that. And I think that- It probably is noticed to a degree and that's the best that I can hope for. But I really, I really focus on spending more time with the management team and then also staying out of their way. Because when we first opened, I think I probably was a little bit too accessible, not in a bad way, but maybe a little bit more involved. And what would happen is, is people would come to me with things Speaker 1 (8:44) where they really should have gone to the management Speaker 2 (8:46) team. Speaker 1 (8:46) You did problem solving for them instead of letting them kind of figure it out on their own. Well, I was making him ask the right questions, maybe. Speaker 2 (8:53) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:54) I think all of Speaker 2 (8:54) those things. The one thing I know that I did that reinforced the management's role, though, is I always and I'm glad I did this when they would come to me with anything. I would say, that's a great question, but I need you to take that to Connor, the manager. So I didn't end up in between. It's a fair point. Well, otherwise, you're undermining the people that work for you. Yeah. Speaker 2 (9:14) Today's episode is brought to you by Black Rifle Coffee. Before I talk about what they have to offer, let's talk about a members-only giveaway that they're doing. Now, you're not going to see this if you go to the website because you need to be a member of one of their exclusive clubs, which we can talk about in will. But here's what it is. From the 21st of September, which has already passed, through October 15th, they're doing a Sisu Eddie Barrel Sonic giveaway. Again, this is for club members only. You're going to get one free entry for being an active subscriber. Then you can get additional entries with loyalty points for a chance to win a premium Sisu Eddie barrel sauna complete with a cedar bevel roof and a 4.5 kilowatt HUUM hum heater, which is almost $9,000 in value. Now how to become a member. Super easy. Head over to BlackRifleCoffee.com and hit on the top bar, subscribe. They'll tell you about the clubs that they have. There's an ECS club, exclusive coffee subscription. I like to say it's Evan's Coffee subscription. There's a build your own box, meaning what coffee you want delivered where you want on the interval you want. There's the shirt club. And then of course there is the sticker club. All of those are going to count. So not only can you satisfy all of your coffee needs at BlackRifleCoffee.com and not only can you support a veteran founded brand that continues to give back to veteran organizations, you can get yourself entered to win this sauna, which looks pretty awesome. Head over to blackriflecoffee.com. Go to town. Don't forget, Christmas is literally right around the corner. Start thinking about that now. Blackriflecoffee.com. Back to the show. Speaker 1 (10:37) It's the transition out of the military, at least like I got out in 2014. Speaker 1 (10:46) It was the, you didn't learn anything during, what was it, TAPS? Is that what it was called? The Transition Assistance Program. That's it, right? And I remember the guy came in, you know, he was like a civilian dude, just rigged his cigarettes, looked like he probably hadn't held down a job in quite some time. And he's talking about resumes, and then he's talking about how the civilian workforce, like, sees veterans. And he's like, I'm going to be honest, guys, nobody wants to hire you if you're in a combat MOS because they think you're all crazy and you're going to come in the workplace and shoot everybody up. And I'm like. Has there been an instance of that happening, by the way? I'm sitting there. I'm like, man, this is how the civilian world sees us. And I think that guy's full of shit. I think he was, too. But like also a point on like civilian contractors and how tough it is to sometimes get rid of the bad ones. Because you're having this guy influence every single person that leaves in insulation. Yeah. And that's the mindset they're leaving with. You wonder why they don't see themselves in a positive light of like what they experienced in the military and how it's applicable to the civilian world of seeing what a really good leader looks like and what a really bad leader looks like. Right. Because you definitely see plenty in the military. I Speaker 2 (11:51) mean, I get there's probably that running the TAPS program for people listening who aren't aware. I think it was a two week program, 10 days, but like Monday through Friday. So 10 total days. Speaker 1 (11:59) I think it was 10 days. And then you had to go, you know, see all the places. Yeah. Full disclosure. Speaker 2 (12:05) I had all the signatures by the end of the first day. I did not attend the other night. Yeah. And also I didn't attend the first day either. I just got all the signatures. Speaker 2 (12:13) My personal theory actually is I think the military should get rid of the two-week off-boarding, turn that completely over to NGOs, and you should have about a three- to four-month off-boarding with an entity outside of the military. Speaker 1 (12:25) I actually think they would do a way better job. I think that's a fair point. I did like it because, I don't know, have you used SkillBridge at all? Speaker 2 (12:31) Mm-mm. Speaker 1 (12:32) I thought that was pretty cool. That popped up. Is it software? No, it's an internship program. So, you know, they have it for... The teams and regimen does it through, I think, Three Ranger Foundation or something like that. Speaker 1 (12:49) Essentially, anybody that is in any branch of the military can apply to spend the last six, I think it's three to six months that you're in. You just work at a company. Oh, I like that very much. We've had probably 12, 15 different Skillbridge interns, Navy, Army. I even had one guy in the Air Force that was the last guy to do his job before Space Force. I was like, I always forget that's a thing now, Space Force. Would you volunteer to be a door gunner on the spaceship? It'd be pretty sweet. I would reenlist for that. There's like five fears and I'll admit this one is space. It is absolutely terrifying to me. Why? Just the absence of like anything. Speaker 2 (13:29) I Speaker 1 (13:29) think there's Speaker 2 (13:29) something up there. Speaker 1 (13:30) Fair enough. Speaker 2 (13:32) It is vacuum. Speaker 2 (13:35) There's Speaker 1 (13:35) something Speaker 2 (13:35) though, right? Speaker 1 (13:36) And I'm like, I don't know why that is terrifying, but you're like, it'd probably be a really quick way to go. Like if something happened, so you're going to sit up there and suffocate, like it's what negative some odd degrees Fahrenheit in space. Speaker 2 (13:49) All of my technical knowledge from space comes from the movie Armageddon. So I'm hesitant to lean on that. Especially on the internet. We'll definitely get corrected. But you know, the contractor they bring in for the TAPS program, I know that's probably not. Speaker 2 (14:05) a high demand job. And maybe that's not that guy's first choice, but what a level of influence they have. And I would so much rather see that person leaving people there with hope or inspiration than the message that they put out. It's one of the things I'm struggling with. Actually, I guess it goes a little bit to the, uh, inner service rivalries that I'm seeing online, or even really large platforms that have seemed to shift to everything is. broken. Everything is not this, that, and this is broken and this, that, and this it's everything. It's the totality. Like, man, life is hard enough. Business is hard enough. Like you're going to get uppercutted right in the chin. I like, let's leave. Can we use our platforms to inspire some hope for like positivity? I mean, that's what I want people leaving the military with. I want them to feel good about who they are and what they did. Not, hey, be careful because everybody views you as crazy because they think you're going to come to the office and be a shooter, which is not, again, I don't, maybe that's happened. I don't know of a single case where that has though. Percentage wise, Speaker 1 (15:07) I mean, it can't be high. No. Maybe some type of veteran background. I've heard of a couple over the years, but it's like. Speaker 1 (15:17) They told, they said, hey, you're going to, they're worried about you being a potential shooter. And like your, your only position that works for you is, you know, police force or, you know, security guard. And you're like. There's so many lessons you learn from like a combat MOS that like, okay, maybe it's not how to clear this room and do CQB properly or throw a frag grenade. Neither of those work well as a cop or security guard, Speaker 2 (15:42) by Speaker 1 (15:42) the Speaker 2 (15:42) way. Speaker 1 (15:42) Especially in today's world. Speaker 2 (15:44) Yeah. Especially in today's world. Oh, I don't even think cops get grenades. No. A security Speaker 1 (15:47) guard would probably actually have an easier time Speaker 2 (15:49) getting away with throwing frag grenades. Actually, probably. And CQB. Maybe bangers. I don't think they should get frags. Neither of those should get frags. No, they'd be pretty. Yeah, frag grenades, they are fun, though. They're fantastic. I wish they blew up into a fireball like they do on TV and movies. Why can't we create that in today's world? Because they're not strapped to a 55-gallon drug with gasoline like they are in the movies. It'd be a little tough to, like, rock in and carry out. No, I remember the first time I saw a frag go off for real, I just said, it was on San Clemente Island where we were throwing them in training. It's like, crack! In a little dust cloud. You're like, it's so boring. It really was. Yeah. It really was. Speaker 2 (16:29) Business. Did you go to school for business? Yeah. Did it prepare you for everything you were going to encounter? Speaker 1 (16:35) Nothing. It prepared me for nothing that I encountered. You know, so I got out and I planned on becoming a large animal vet and I didn't really want to get out. Right. But. Why'd you get out then? Speaker 1 (16:48) Politics, it was like the 2011, 2012 time period. So I got out in the last day of June, 2013. What politics are you talking about? Just kind of the white gloves that they're starting to put on us. Like what we needed to be able to call in air to ground munitions. Oh, you're talking about theater specific guys. Exactly. So my brother-in-law got killed on my first appointment and I had three sisters growing up. He was, I wanted to be a SEAL before that. So maybe that's why we fight with you guys all the time because we're jealous that we didn't try. That's my joke I use with Green Berets. Yeah. Speaker 2 (17:25) Anytime I have Green Beret buddies on, and it only works once because now they know the joke, but I say, do you know what all Green Berets and SEALs have in common? And they'll say, what? I said, they both wanted to be SEALs. I'm like, fuck you. Speaker 1 (17:35) But like I said, it only works once. You can only leave them at that one time. Then they know it. Yeah. And now you just said it on the podcast. Yeah. Speaker 1 (17:45) That happened, and that was one directly related to that specifically. What happened? He was the number one guy, Assault Element. A Ranger as well? Yep, Ranger. And it was his eighth deployment. He was in his eighth or ninth deployment, June 14, 2011, Paktika. And they were doing a pretty cool mission set at that point. One company of Rangers would rip out and do something pretty sweet for... six months instead of like our normal four-month rotation and it was his company and they're impacting He was number one man, you know leading his squad up and I saw I missed a dude with an RPK like up on the rooftop Like literally first round Hit him above his side sapper and went straight through his heart. So it was quick but that was Four weeks? Six weeks into my first deployment. You were overseas when that happened? Yeah, I brought him home. How did they notify you? Okay, this part's kind of funny. I didn't want anybody in regiment to know he was my brother-in-law. Mostly because if I was a turd, I didn't want it to negatively impact him. That's fair. And then also, if I was really good, I didn't want him to be like, well, it's because everybody knows. Speaker 2 (18:59) It's me. Yeah. Judge me for me and not by the last name or familial ties. I get that for sure. Yeah, 100%. So he had, Speaker 1 (19:07) when I graduated RASP, they were already deployed, right? So I graduated right around St. Paddy's Day and he had deployed about two weeks before that. And he had given the NCOIC that was back and they do like a draft for all the different companies when you get down there at the headquarters building. And he had told the NCUIC, like, excuse my brother, like, put him in, you know, first or third platoon. And so I knew that he was going to try to do that. And one of the guys I graduated with also had a brother in DECO. And so I had told my buddy, I'm like, hey, Jesse, will you, like, please make sure that your brother puts me on the top of their draft list? And so we got down there, and he was, like, actually pretty pissed at me for doing that. And so I ended up deploying to KNR. Speaker 1 (19:56) About four weeks after that, actually the day after the Bin Laden raid. And then I was on a mission near Kandahar. I can't remember where we were at. I think we were south of Kandahar. And it ended up being like a dry hole, right? And I'm a new guy in regiment, so I'm just like trying not to mess anything up or make sure I don't do anything that reflects poorly on myself because being a new guy in regiment is terrible. Speaker 1 (20:27) We got back and I'm doing the new guy stuff. I'm like filling waters camelbacks like, you know putting ammo and back looking for work Yeah, Speaker 2 (20:33) yeah 100 % and Speaker 1 (20:34) you know that that was the cool part about having Jeremy's is he's like dude being a private sucks and we do that on purpose You want to be highly motivated to go to Ranger school and how do you get there? You're the best PT score and you do exactly what other people tell you to do that have a Ranger tab on their shoulder It was like Roger that that easy enough. And so I'm doing all that and My squad leader gets called out of the ready room by our first sergeant. I'm like, hmm. He pops his head in like two minutes later. He's like, Montgomery, get out of here. And immediately I'm like, oh, God, what did I screw up? Like, I'm thinking about phone calls ahead and if I broke a hop sack or something. And they pull me out, and it's my CO, my first sergeant, and my squad leader. And the CO is like, hey, do you have a brother-in-law in BCO? And I was like, yes. Speaker 1 (21:23) And he's kind of like beating around the bush about what happened. He's like, hey, he got in a firefight. He's injured. This like tangent goes on for like two minutes before I'm like, hey, all due respect, sir. Like, is he alive or dead? And our first sergeant jumps in and is like, he's dead. Like he got got shot about the side sapper. They should have just said that. Yeah. Speaker 2 (21:43) I understand the burden that they're under. But for anybody out there, whoever has whoever has to deliver a death notification. clarity of verbiage is incredibly important. I've seen people, and I don't think it was intentional, strung along with hope because... The person was saying they were lost or they were gone. Yeah. And, and you, I can't even fathom being on the other side of that reception, but what that person I think is doing is they're, they're grasping onto every level of hope. And I'm not saying being a dick and I'm not saying you have to rip the bandaid off, but you need to be definitive in what you're saying and clear in what you're saying. Speaker 1 (22:22) You're spot on. Cause that's exactly where I'm like, okay, he's injured. Like. does he have a tourniquet on his arm? Like, is he, is he in surgery right now? Um, but my, my first iron, like one of the best leaders I ever worked for. And he understood that. So finally he just jumped saying he's like Montgomery's dad, you know, round hit him above side zapper, you know, went straight through his heart. He's gone. Speaker 2 (22:43) And those are those are injuries where if that had happened in an operating room with world class specialists and he had fallen onto the table, it's unlikely that they would ever to be saved. A Speaker 1 (22:55) hundred percent. Yeah. And you can get plenty of time to think about this stuff after the fact. Right. So you read the doc reports and all the other different stuff and think about the what ifs. But, you know, the crazy part was, you know, the first thing that popped into my mind was my sister was like not. she wasn't in Savannah. She was back home in KC. And I'm like, I don't, I don't really think I fully understand how the notification process works. Like, do you guys need this info? Cause she's not in Savannah right now. She's in Kansas city visiting my parents. And so that, that like turned into a whole thing where, um, you know, it took him almost two days to find my sister and tell her. And so I flew up to Bagram and met up with his body in that time period. And, uh, you know, I, I look at it like this now, um, It was the greatest honor I've ever had. And I will say, like... Speaker 1 (23:46) You get to see a part of America when you do that. It's really tough to see right now, right? Especially when you get on social media or whatever. But like all you hear about is the bad shit that we as Americans do to each other or, you know, left and right and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like when something like that happens, you know, of course there's like, especially being in Kansas, right? We buried him at Fort Leavenworth. You have Westboro Baptist, right? And that was a big thing back then. But honestly, it's like white noise, like 15 people show up. You know, the thing I remember is like 400 motorcycles shutting down the entire interstate with like 50 police officers escorting his body, like the governor showing up. And even cooler than the politicians is just the random people, right? Hundreds and hundreds of random people. But that's the part that, you know. And it'll stick with me forever on the aspects of like, man, there's so much good that's just not talked about. To your point about bringing optimism, it's like that good still exists, but unfortunately it's the loudest 10 % that we hear most often. Why do you think the negative is so capable of drowning that out? Speaker 2 (24:55) Oh, man. I think of I'll use Instagram as just a visual medium while you're talking about capturing. And you see it sometimes those processions in flags and people who never met the person but were touched by their passing lining the road. I mean, that stuff is incredibly compelling. Speaker 2 (25:17) But it gets drowned out. I wonder if it's just a volume, not meaning like a dial volume, but just an overall like in the bucket and the volume is full 90 % with Speaker 1 (25:25) the negative. Speaker 2 (25:25) I'm Speaker 1 (25:26) going to screw up the saying, our PR gal, she used to always say this because I was always trying to pitch good, like good news, right? She's like, what's the bad stuff happening in the world, right? And you're like, ugh. Speaker 1 (25:40) But good news, like bad news doesn't sell. Right. As far as the media goes. I think that's starting to change though. Like, you know, um, this and I actually met like through some Hollywood stuff and going through that process. Um, it's Speaker 2 (25:56) a weird Speaker 1 (25:56) statement by the way. This sounds, did you guys have clothes on? No. Okay. Speaker 2 (26:00) I was gonna say what type of Hollywood West side of Hollywood East only Speaker 1 (26:04) fans and a couple of cameras. Yeah. Um, Speaker 1 (26:10) they're looking for positive shows. They're looking for good, wholesome movies. The funny part is I don't even think they know how to make them anymore, right? Because it's just been 20 years of how far can we take the special effects and the bad news and the wow factor. And I feel like that's starting to shift. People are so just like, man, corruption everywhere I look, bad news everywhere I look. And it's like, well. You know, only if you're looking at your phone or your TV or whatever else. Well, you don't have to ignore the Speaker 2 (26:39) corruption that clearly does exist or the bad things that clearly do happen in the world. But I don't know if you are truly benefited by focusing exclusively Speaker 1 (26:49) on those things. Like how many conversations do you, well, excluding this podcast. Like how many conversations do you have on a daily basis where people are like immediately just start going down conspiracy theories, bad news, politics, like. Pretty few, actually. I still have a lot, man. I, well, I'll stop Speaker 2 (27:07) them and I'll just say, I totally support you believing whatever you want to, but I don't want to invest any, any, I get the passion that you have and depending on what it is, you know, whatever left or right of the political aisle, whatever the issue is. Speaker 2 (27:22) There are certainly some people that I know that you can tell, like, for this person, this is their thing. Put a flag in the ground. And they always want to talk about it. I'm like, listen, I would rather enjoy spending time with you. I'm not going to, though, if this is or I'm not going to engage in this conversation. If that's what you want to Speaker 1 (27:35) do, let's talk about anything else. People probably say about me with how fired up I get about food and corruption. But, you know, we'll probably talk about that maybe a little bit if I can get you. Are you saying there's corruption tied to food or are these two separate topics? No. Yeah, there is corruption tied everywhere, especially in business. But food is like, you know, it's the stake I've planted, right? And that's just seven years of like watching how creating Casey Cattle Company, almost watching it get destroyed. And then being like, man, there's some really nefarious shit happening in this world. And I think this might be a bigger fight than anything I did on the military side. So, yeah. Speaker 2 (28:13) How did your continued service impact your family post your brother-in-law's death? Did that change? I mean, how could you not have it? I mean, you become a Gold Star family at that point. I'm sure having never experienced this as somebody who has a sibling serving or a child serving. And that's one of the biggest things I look back on my life when I was in the military. I didn't realize what Speaker 1 (28:37) I put Speaker 2 (28:37) my family through. I was so myopically front site focused, pun intended, I guess, on that's all I'd ever wanted to do. And then I was doing it at a level that I didn't even think was possible. Gone all the time. Deployments. I'm like living my absolute best life. Yep. And had no idea. I was probably aging everybody that cared about me in dog years. If we were lucky, double dog years if it was, you know, realistically. But I can't even fathom good, right? That's delicious. This is the Andrew Herberman. I don't know if you say yerba mate or yerba mate, but whatever. It's the matina. It's very good. I'm trying the mint Speaker 1 (29:17) one. It's fantastic. Speaker 2 (29:18) Yes, the mango key lime, also crushing. So no relationship whatsoever other than Andrew's an awesome dude, and he sent me a bunch of it. So thank you again, Andrew. But I can't fathom what the multiplication factor must be once you lose a family member. Speaker 1 (29:37) It's really hard. And honestly, like, I don't know if you could do the job if, if you were seeing like, okay, the funeral happens, there's a big party. You're Speaker 2 (29:47) literally having the mortality of a throne in your face. Yep. Speaker 1 (29:50) Yeah. But then it's like, okay, I got to get back to work. I moved in with, so my sister and Jeremy had their first son. like right before that deployment. So he was six months old when that happened. He turned 16 here in October, which is just mind-blowing because it feels like yesterday. But I moved in with them after that happened. I moved out of the barracks and moved in with them. Speaker 1 (30:16) And it was the right thing to do. But man, I think there's a reason like we have to keep a little bit of like, you know, I'm not saying anything my sister doesn't know. Like we've had these conversations where I'm like, man, you know, I think that kind of wrecked me as a person. Right. And, you know, because they were in like a couple where, I mean, you see lots of these in the military where they like hate each other. Right. I looked up to him in their marriage, right? They had a really strong marriage. And, you know, she was 25, he was 26 when he died. And, you know, at the time, he's... Six years older than me, and he'll always remain older than me in my head. But here I am at 37, I'm like, she was a baby, right? Oh, yeah. And she's lived so much life since then. But how do you comprehend that and deal with that? And then that was a bad couple deployments for first bat and second. We ended up losing. Speaker 1 (31:17) four more guys on those two deployments. And then, you know, two of the guys I graduated RAS with died. You know, I mean, they came and replaced us and they died on that deployment. And it just, it wrecked me, man. Like, and being so close to it. Speaker 1 (31:33) I wouldn't change it. Like it all happened for a reason. Like I think about it, it ultimately led to, you know, bad choices and me leaving regiment. But I'm like, if I, if that wouldn't happen, cause all I cared about was being a ranger. Right. So you're like, you know, how did it affect my family? Probably not positively, but the only thing I cared about was like getting back to work. And, um, that. Speaker 1 (31:57) I think I would have stayed in, right, for probably forever. And I'm like, man, if I would have done that, I don't think I would have gotten married. I don't think I'd have my children. I wouldn't have this company that I believe in, you know, clearly more than I believed in the war in Afghanistan at this point. So, yeah. How's his son doing? He's good. He's doing really good. He was over for, I had him and his first girlfriend over for dinner and had some steaks on Friday night. And, you know, it's just so funny. Speaker 1 (32:28) He's tall and Jeremy was my eye, right? And I'm like- For the audience, would you say 5'3"? I think you're confusing the Speaker 2 (32:37) other cattlemen. Oh, Greg? Yeah. Micro seal? He can stand full-legged and not hit his head on the bottom of this table. He told you to tell you that Speaker 1 (32:47) he's- Speaker 1 (32:49) What was it? Tall, good looking and blonde. Is that it? He is trying as hard Speaker 2 (32:55) as he can to be confused with his business partner, Tim Sheehy at all times. He just wants to be called Greg Sheehy. Speaker 2 (33:02) He's going to be screaming at whatever device he is listening to this on. Speaker 1 (33:05) He's on vacation, so at least he can come find me while I'm back there. But yeah, so he's 5'9", right? He's 5'9". Everett's probably like already like 6'2", 6'3". He's just a green bean, right? Like he'll fill out at some point. I'm like a big time swimmer, you know, which is funny because Jeremy was, you know, he played water polo. Like that was his sport in high school, along with some other swimming and activities. Speaker 1 (33:31) But he's doing really well. Can you imagine growing up Speaker 2 (33:37) having no memories of your father? Speaker 1 (33:39) Because I'm not going to assume at six months that he has Speaker 2 (33:42) no memories of his dad. He's got Speaker 1 (33:43) none. But I will say, like, that is one thing a lot of Jeremy's buddies got right, was, like, they continue to pour into that kid. You know, one of them, one of Jeremy's former PLs. bought a shotgun for him, right? Like a Benelli 20 gauge. And he calls me, he's like, Hey, you think Colleen will get mad at me if I do this? I was like, just send it to my house. Right? Like just send it to my house. Irrelevant. Add to cart. I was like, I was like, just use the FFL. I'll pick it up. And, and so it is fun doing stuff like that. Like I get to, you know, take him turkey hunting and do this stuff. But I think there. the cool parts like calling to do a really good job of compiling the memories that people had a journey, uh, right after it happened. Like she created this Facebook page where, you know, anybody that knew Jeremy could go on there and just tell a story about them. And, and she did so many things like that in the moment that I'm like, I would have never thought of that. Right. Uh, and that's why females are, are, uh, way better at some of that stuff than we are. But, um, that's one of the best utilizations of the