Steakhouse Secrets: What Nobody Tells You About The Perfect Steak

Christopher Kimball’s Milk Street Radio

This episode of Milk Street Radio explores a wide array of culinary histories and practical kitchen techniques. Host Christopher Kimball and

Key takeaways

Tim Hayward discusses the 'Sublime Society of Beefsteaks' and the unique flavor of meat from 25-year-old oxen in Spain.
Kenji Lopez-Alt traces the origins of Seattle-style teriyaki to Toshi Kasahara in 1976, noting the addition of pineapple juice and garlic.

Main topics

History of Steak
Hatch Chili usage

Notable quotes

beef and liberty

Conclusion

A comprehensive guide that blends historical food trivia with actionab

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Thanks for downloading this week's podcast. If you'd like to hear an ad-free version of this episode and every episode, please visit our show page in your Apple Podcast app. Again, you can listen to our show ad-free and support the work we do here at Milk Street. Go visit the Milk Street radio page in your Apple Podcast app and start your seven-day free trial. And thanks. Speaker 2 (0:26) This is Milk Street Radio from PRX. I'm your host, Christopher Kimball. Tim Hayward loves steak so much he's inked it onto his body. Speaker 4 (0:36) So the symbol is a gridiron surrounded by a ring, and in the ring are the words beef and liberty. Speaker 2 (0:43) Tim claims the best steak he ever ate came from a cow that was 25 years old. Speaker 4 (0:50) Now these animals, they've lived long, really, really, really hard-working lives, and then when they're slaughtered, This guy's buying them up, bringing them in, and his wife's cooking them, and it's just the most glorious meat you've ever had. Speaker 2 (1:02) The ultimate guide to steak, that's later in the show. But first, I'm joined by my co-host, Sarah Moulton, to answer a few of your cooking questions. Sarah is, of course, the star of Sarah's Weeknight Meals on public television. Her latest book is Home Cooking 101. Speaker 2 (1:18) Sarah, how are you? I'm good, Chris. So we're going to talk about steaks a little bit later in the show, but I have a question for you. Someone just went to a steakhouse, which is actually right near the studio where we are now. This is a guy I really trust who owns a bakery in Boston, Cambridge, and he said it was fabulous. So I'm beginning to think maybe the steakhouse, no matter where you go, is actually a pretty good bet. Like in the day, Howard Johnson's actually had good food. Oh, they really did. When Jacques Pepin was working there in the 60s. Pierre Prenet, yeah. But maybe the steakhouse is actually something we should rethink. Some of the really expensive steakhouses where it's $70 or $80 for a steak I think is insane. But what about a regular steakhouse? Like if you're traveling, isn't that a pretty good bet? I think it is. I Speaker 1 (2:05) agree. For starts, they have those really, really, really hot ovens. And so you get that really wonderful crust. And they cook aged steak. None of this recently butchered stuff, the aged steak that is much more tender and flavorful. So yeah, I agree with you. I'm not a big meat eater, although I like steak every so often. My favorite steak is skirt steak, which is not a steakhouse steak. I like hanger Speaker 2 (2:32) steak. Speaker 1 (2:32) Hanger steak too, because they have so much unique flavor, both of them. But no, I think you're right. A steakhouse is a good bet. Speaker 2 (2:40) Now I'm hungry for steaks. Speaker 1 (2:41) No, but wait a second. What's your favorite sauce for steaks? Speaker 2 (2:44) Worcestershire sauce and butter. My Speaker 1 (2:46) grandmother would approve. Very simple. Yeah, very simple. I like au poivre. And I'll tell you, of course, my French. Bearnaise. I love Bearnaise. The French, really. Speaker 2 (2:57) They double down on their sauces. Speaker 1 (2:59) Yeah, they do. But at any rate, let's take a call. Speaker 2 (3:03) Welcome to Milk Street. Who's calling? Hi, this is Michael from West Hollywood, California. Speaker 3 (3:07) How Speaker 2 (3:08) are you? Speaker 3 (3:08) I'm great. Speaker 1 (3:09) How Speaker 2 (3:10) can we help you? Speaker 3 (3:11) One of the perks of living in Southern California is we get all kinds of interesting produce. And August and September, it was hatch chili season in New Mexico. And I went in 50-50 on 50 pounds of hatch chilies. And now I have a freezer full of 25 pounds of hatch chilies. I'm trying to come up with interesting ways of using them. Speaker 2 (3:30) You know, my favorite was a recipe I saw 20 years ago for a hamburger with a hatch chili sauce on top. It's about the best hamburger I've ever had in my life. So that would be number one. But then you could use it, you know, like you would, you could use anything. You could use it in enchiladas, you could use it in stews, et cetera. You could use it in shakshuka because they're not going to burn your mouth out, but they have a ton of flavor. But the hamburger, I got to say, was killer. I still remember the hamburger. Was it a hamburger Speaker 1 (3:58) or a cheeseburger? I bet it was a cheeseburger. It Speaker 2 (4:00) was just so good. I think it's a green Speaker 1 (4:01) chili cheeseburger. Speaker 2 (4:02) It's really good. Yeah. It's phenomenal. That would be my content. This Speaker 1 (4:05) has Speaker 2 (4:05) cheeseburger. Okay. Yeah. Oh, it sounds so good. Just have the salsa, make up a salsa and freeze it in ice cube trays or whatever you want and you have it ready to go. Speaker 1 (4:13) Yeah. I was going to also suggest adding it to potatoes like in a potato gratin, you know, with cream and cheese. Oh, Speaker 6 (4:20) definitely. It's Speaker 1 (4:22) great in quiche, you know, because I'm thinking of dairy things because, I mean, hatch chilies have a unique flavor. They're sort of sweet and smoky and grassy, and some of them are hot but not that hot. So it's always good to combine with dairy. And they're also, I think, very nice sauteed with mushrooms. So I'm just trying to think of different places to take them than the usual. Speaker 3 (4:41) Yeah, very helpful. I've made a lot of chili verde, but we're sort of over that at this point. Speaker 2 (4:46) I do have a question. When you get through 25 pounds of these, are you going to be sick of hatch chilies or are you still going to be an enthusiast? I guess you'll have to wait to see. Speaker 3 (4:55) I think it might have to be an every other Speaker 2 (4:57) year thing. Yeah, I think so. Maybe Speaker 1 (4:59) you need to have a hatch chili party. Speaker 2 (5:01) That's actually a very Speaker 3 (5:02) good idea. Speaker 1 (5:03) You know, invite some other people over. And give Speaker 2 (5:05) them all hatch chilies in a little package at the end of the party. There you go. Hatch chili Hanukkah might be the way to Speaker 1 (5:10) do Speaker 2 (5:10) it. Speaker 1 (5:10) There you go. That even rhymes. Yes, love it. Speaker 2 (5:13) Michael, thank you. Speaker 1 (5:14) Yes. Speaker 2 (5:15) Thank you guys both so much. Speaker 1 (5:16) Bye. Welcome to Milk Street. Who's calling? This Speaker 8 (5:20) is Speaker 1 (5:20) Pam Speaker 8 (5:21) from Hague, New York. Speaker 1 (5:22) Hi, Pam. How can we help you today? Speaker 8 (5:25) Well, I have a question. What is the best way to store steaks if you can't use them immediately? I had quite the dilemma after purchasing some very nice strip steaks that were freshly cut and one inch thick. And I needed to hold them for three days. I wasn't sure what to do. If I left them in the plastic bag that they came in or put them on a plate, loosely wrapped, that was my dilemma. And so I'm asking you for advice. Speaker 1 (6:02) How did they come out? Was there a problem? Speaker 8 (6:05) The steaks were very good, but I thought that they smelled a little beefy when I opened up the plastic bag. Speaker 1 (6:14) Well, you know, I think that actually is not a problem unless, of course, they smell rotten. No, no, no. Nothing like that. In my experience all these years working in restaurants and also working at home, I almost always rinse every piece of protein and pat it dry before I cook it. And you will find that that aroma just disappears if you rinse it and pat it dry. Okay. So, you know, if I only had them in the fridge for three days, I would leave them in the package they came in. That's what I was wondering. That's what I did. Yeah, yeah. But then I would rinse them and pat them dry, you know, and proceed. Chris, what do you think? Well, Speaker 2 (6:55) if we were in the 18th century, 19th century in England, we would be hanging our game for a few days until it fell off the string. Right. I mean, the English, you know, thought, and there's a lot of truth to that because you're... Dry aging, aging develops a lot of flavor. I would think, you know, a few days in the fridge in the original packaging is fine. For longer, you could vacuum seal it or put it in a plastic bag and get rid of most of the air. Of all the things you could cook, chicken or fish, forget it. But steaks are going to be very unlikely to have any bad bacteria on it. They can stay quite a long while. But I agree with Sarah. I just rinse it off, pat it dry, and it... should be good to go. You know, they may have actually tasted better than if you cooked them on the day you bought them. Thank Speaker 8 (7:42) you. There Speaker 2 (7:42) you Speaker 8 (7:42) go. You're welcome. Thanks very much. Yeah, take care. Speaker 2 (7:45) All right, enjoy your Speaker 1 (7:45) program. Thank you. Speaker 2 (7:46) Thank Speaker 1 (7:46) you very much. All right. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Speaker 2 (7:48) This is Milk Street Radio. If you need a little inspiration in the kitchen, give us a call, 855-426-9843, 855-426-9843, or just email us at questions at milkstreetradio.com. Speaker 1 (8:05) Welcome to Milk Street. Who's calling? Speaker 6 (8:07) Hi, Speaker 1 (8:07) this Speaker 6 (8:07) is Tom calling from Chicago. Speaker 1 (8:09) Hi, Tom. How can we help you? Speaker 6 (8:11) Well, my question is about extra virgin olive oil. I went to a Spanish food and wine tasting, and the chef there apparently had quite a following because hands started going up asking about his view on extra virgin olive oil. And he had some very controversial, to me, ideas. First of all, that... First cold press is no longer a thing, and it's just a marketing term. And most of all, he said that extra virgin olive oil has a higher smoke point than most of us have been linked to believe. So I wanted to call Milk Street and see if you could corroborate any of this. Speaker 1 (8:55) I mean, he is right. It used to be that when olive oil was harvested, when the olives were harvested, they were pressed. And the first time they were pressed, no heat was applied. So that was called first cold press. And then they'd go back and they'd, you know, add some heat and get some more oil out of it. And that was not as desired because it had been compromised slightly. Now they do something called centrifugal separation. So it's a totally different process. So, yeah, I think the term is used loosely, too loosely. You know, the first cold press, it's just marketing. But the fact of the matter is olive oil, you know, really can be very high end depending on Where and when it was harvested, I mean, the really good stuff is harvested once a year. It's not heated. It's still not heated. You know, it has a shelf life. And depending on when they harvest the olives, whether they're ripe or not ripe, there's a different flavor profile. And, of course, the terroir, and there's 1,500 different kinds of olives. So there's so much that goes into it. So, yes, I agree with the first statement that that is a misnomer. But there's nothing wrong with getting a high-end extra virgin olive oil that, you know, comes from a place that just makes that oil. In terms of the temperature, yeah, you sure can, you know, I think you can get it over 400 degrees. And a lot of food is deep fried at 365, 360. But why would you want to do that? Well, that's my Speaker 6 (10:27) question. You wouldn't. Although it's so expensive, why would you want to waste it on something like deep frying? Speaker 1 (10:32) Yeah, and plus which it will compromise its wonderful flavor. You want that as a finishing oil. Right. Speaker 2 (10:37) You can buy inexpensive olive oil that comes in a big can. I just did this test at Milk Street two weeks ago, and I fried French fries in it. Speaker 1 (10:47) Yeah. And Speaker 2 (10:48) it was fine. It didn't smoke. It was great. And so you think about... Like Italians had olive oil, right? That's what they used. So of course they fried in olive oil. You don't use a 25-hour bottle to fry in. Right. But you can buy very inexpensive olive oil and a big thing, and it's just fine. If you want higher temperature, if you get a refined olive oil, like a light olive oil, that'll even have a 440, 450-degree smoke point. But there's nothing wrong at all with frying with olive oil. No. Just don't use an expensive one. That's Speaker 6 (11:20) all. Speaker 2 (11:20) All right. I think the one other thing is this nonsense about it's got to be an Italian olive oil or a Spanish olive oil. When I was in Lebanon a few years ago, I came across this very almost yellow, cloudy, fruity olive oil without a lot of bite in the back of the throat. I still get it. I found the place that makes it. He makes very, very little of it every year. It's great. So I think especially Italy and Spain have sort of monopolized the market in terms of... where you think of olive oil coming from, but there are dozens of countries, you know, lots of places make olive oil. I agree. And Speaker 1 (11:56) there Speaker 2 (11:56) are olives, olive oil is still made by pressing. I've been in some of those places. So you still get small operations that make wonderful olive oil. Speaker 6 (12:04) I'm going to have to expand my reach of extra virgin olive oil then. Speaker 2 (12:08) The last thing is, I don't know if