Dining Dos, Dining Don’ts: The New Rules of Restaurant Etiquette
Christopher Kimball’s Milk Street Radio
Christopher Kimball explores modern restaurant etiquette with Bon Appétit columnist Maggie Hennessy, covering topics like phone use, tipping
Key takeaways
- Phone use at the table is discouraged as it signals disengagement from social interaction.
- Tipping should be coordinated when splitting checks to avoid awkwardness or perceived inequality.
Main topics
- Modern restaurant etiquette
- Korean soju culture and drinking rituals
Notable quotes
"You never pour your own drink. It's very much a reciprocal thing." – Irene Yoo
Conclusion
Dining out today blends evolving social norms with deep cultural tradi
Transcript preview
Speaker 2 (0:00) Hey, this is Christopher Kimball. Next May, we're taking a culinary tour of northeastern Spain, and we'd like you to come along. You'll eat just like the locals, which means lobster stew at a folding table by the sea, and sausages and vermouth in a neighborhood taverna. You'll also make fideas a la cazola and sip cava at a small winery. Forage with a botanist and transform your wild harvest into an elegant dinner. And eat barbecue a la Catalonia in a field at the foot of the Pyrenees. Please join us. Head to culinarybackstreets.com slash milkstreet to learn more. That's culinarybackstreets.com slash milkstreet. Thanks for downloading this week's podcast. If you'd like to hear an ad-free version of this episode and every episode, please visit our show page in your Apple Podcast app. Again, you can listen to our show ad-free and support the work we do here at Milk Street. Go visit the Milk Street Radio page in your Apple Podcast app and start your seven-day free trial. And thanks. This is Milk Street Radio from PRX, and I'm your host, Christopher Kimball. Speaker 2 (1:11) Today we ask, what are the rules for dining out? Speaker 3 (1:14) This is the funny thing, isn't it, about going out to eat, is like our human behavior is on display in a semi-public place. Speaker 2 (1:21) Is it ever okay to have your phone on the table? Speaker 3 (1:24) You know, because it's like, oh, you're most important to me, unless something more interesting happens on my phone. Speaker 2 (1:29) There are also situations that are real minefields, like tipping. Speaker 7 (1:33) What are you going to leave? Let's coordinate the tip here. Speaker 2 (1:36) Why? Speaker 7 (1:37) Well, when you split the check, we both have the exact same bill. So why don't we do the same thing so one of us doesn't look like an idiot? We're favoring nations all of a sudden for lunch? Speaker 2 (1:46) How to be a good diner, that's coming up later in the show. But first, we're joined by Irene Yu. She's the co-owner of Orion Bar in Brooklyn, also author of Soju Party, How to Drink and Eat Like a Korean. Irene, welcome to Milk Street. Thank you so much for having me. I should have... had a bunch of soju and other things with me because we could have actually drunk our way through the interview, which should have been a lot more fun. So, okay. So this is a kind of drinking I'm not familiar with. It has lots of options, lots of parts to it. So let's start at the beginning, which is what is soju? Speaker 5 (2:26) Yeah. So soju is a Korean distilled liquor. There's kind of Two different types of soju. The one you see most commonly commercially comes in these like green or now sometimes like blue or like clear bottles and it kind of drinks like I would say a very light vodka. Traditionally soju was a distilled liquor that was made with like rice and nuruk which is a Korean fermentation starter and water but the commercialized version of soju that you see in these green bottles is actually like the government has like one company that makes ethanol that they provide to all the different soju companies and then that ethanol is cut down with like water and like flavorings and additives to sort of get their like special recipe. So making the soju itself is very cheap. The bottle, creating these like green glass bottles accounts for a lot of the manufacturing cost. And in Korea, they have a really robust recycling program. So all of these bottles are collected and reused to produce and sell more soju. Speaker 2 (3:36) Okay, let's talk about, I love this part, the rules around drinking. Let's talk about pouring drinks. That has a certain ritual to it, right? Speaker 5 (3:46) Yes. So the hierarchy around Korean drinking really stems from the hierarchy that exists in Korea. Like we're really cognizant of respecting the hierarchy of the people around us, whether that's respecting our elders, respecting people older than us, or even within like a corporate setting. So there's this concept of making sure you're serving the people who are older than you or higher above you first. So there's a lot of like, you have to feel out, is this person older than me? Or we just explicitly ask as well. So I think that's what's really interesting is that you start in this really like rigid, I'm pouring for you and then you pour for me. You never pour your own drink. And then maybe as the night goes on, you sort of like start to break down those barriers. Speaker 2 (4:37) Yeah, I found that really interesting. You never pour your own drink. Is that because hospitality rules sort of state that other people should pour for you? Speaker 5 (4:46) Yeah, I think it's a little bit of like, don't drink by yourself. We'll drink with you. But then also like, you know, I'll serve you. You serve me. It's very much a reciprocal thing. Speaker 2 (4:56) So then you talk about going out for the evening and you say, I know I'm strapping in for multiple rounds. So you move locations as you. go on, you know, it's a little nomadic, right? Speaker 5 (5:09) Definitely. I think it's fun because it offers a change of scene and also sort of implicitly offers an exit strategy. Speaker 2 (5:20) So the places you go to, are these places really designed for small plates of food and drinking? Almost like tapas? Or what places are you going to? Speaker 5 (5:32) I think it's actually a little bit the other way around in Korea. In Korea, alcohol is so cheap that most of the restaurants and places that serve alcohol are making their money off food. And in Korea, it's all about big portions, about sharing. So you go to a restaurant and the idea is that like the food is first and then the alcohol sort of comes around it. With Korean-style drinking, you're almost never drinking without there being food present. Speaker 2 (6:02) So if you said, hey, let's go to Seoul and spend a week eating and drinking, what are three or four things you'd tell me? things not to do or things to do to sort of make sure I don't make a complete ass of myself when I'm in Korea. Well, Speaker 5 (6:18) I will say that, you know, in this book, I talk a lot about like rituals and rules. And, you know, I think it is more like in fun. But I would say that if you stepped right off the plane, the first place you should go is the Korean convenience store, because that is where you will find everything you need to drink Korean style. So obviously, you'll find your soju. So you got like, The range of snacks and ramens and foods that you can eat alongside your drinking is all there. But then most importantly, they have these like hangover cures. There's like jellies and tinctures and bottles and so many hangover aisle. Yeah, they're everywhere. So that I think is the most key thing. Is Speaker 2 (7:05) there a particular recipe or hangover cure? you might make yourself, you're not buying something in the store? Speaker 5 (7:12) Absolutely. In Korean culture, the hangover soup is so important that there is actually a dish called hangover soup. It's called haejangguk. And it basically contains all of the things you need to recharge and revitalize your immune system. It has like soybean sprouts. It has like Napa cabbage. It's a little bit spicy. It's a very like restorative thing to sort of help you sweat out all the alcohol. Speaker 2 (7:46) So what are some of the cocktails or the way they mix these alcohols? You talk about a few of them. Speaker 5 (7:53) Yeah. My favorite is called a milky shot. It's basically equal parts soju, beer, and cider, which is like a Korean Sprite. And then you mix that in a glass and you cover it with a napkin and you like slam it on your hand to like foam it up. And then if you shoot that, it tastes like this Korean yogurt soda. And then there's other combinations like the soju beer combo, which is called homeg. There's also a shot called 고진감 내주 which translates to like you had a hard day and with something sweet. So in a glass you build like half a shot of soju, half a shot of cola and then you fill it with beer and then you shoot the whole thing. So when you drink it you taste the soju first and then the beer and then ends with like that syrupy-ness from the coke. Speaker 2 (8:47) So you're co-owner of Orion Bar in Brooklyn. Are there certain things you serve at the bar that are particularly popular, especially Korean drinks that really stand out? Speaker 5 (8:58) One of our top sellers ever since we've opened is actually also a drink in the book. It's our Space Spam. It's like a spam cocktail. And so it bridges this gap between like my... Korean upbringing in America. So I was like, oh, wouldn't it be really cool to like have a drink that tastes like spam? And it tried really, really hard to do that, and it did not work because, like, fat-washing spam doesn't really do anything. And, I don't know, it just, like, didn't really work to translate spam into a drink. So instead, went more with, like, a tiki cocktail that's inspired by the ethos of spam, I guess. So it's a little bit spicy, it's a little bit smoky. And then this, at the bar, we serve frozen. In a plastic spam can. So that's been very, of course. So that's been very popular. And what is it Speaker 2 (9:54) called? Speaker 5 (9:54) Space Speaker 2 (9:54) spam. Space Speaker 5 (9:56) spam. Speaker 2 (9:56) So I'm listening to this now. I'm intrigued. Give me a couple of ideas. So I go to the liquor store and I'm going to come home and try to make a couple of different cocktails, Korean style. What would be a couple of simple recipes I might want to make? Speaker 5 (10:14) Favorite recipes that I really recommend from the book is to try making infused soju and using that as a basis for classic cocktails, like making a jujube soju and then using that for the base of like my jujube ginseng Negroni. You know, in the book and in this talk, we've talked a lot about like Korean style drinking, but I think that there's very much a place for soju to live on your liquor shelf. and play a role in making sort of a lot more like American style cocktails. Speaker 2 (10:48) Irene, it's been a real pleasure. Thank you so much. It's really, it's been a lot of fun. Thank you so much, Chris. It was lovely to talk to you. That was Irene Yu. Her new book is called Soju Party. Speaker 2 (11:03) Now I'm joined by my co-host, Sarah Moulton, to answer a few of your cooking questions. Sarah is, of course, the star of Sarah's Weeknight Meals on public television. Her latest book is Home Cooking 101. So Sarah, so, you know, later in the show, we have a segment about restaurant etiquette, what not to do in a restaurant. So I thought since you've worked in restaurants, both as a wait person and as a chef, Is there some behavior that you find is beyond the pale in terms of etiquette? Speaker 1 (11:33) You know, I'm very old-fashioned in this way. I'm tired of the cell phone at the table. It's true for home, too. You know, having it out, checking it constantly, looking at it rather than talking to each other. It's almost like there's somebody else at the table besides the people at the table. So that drives me bananas. How about you? Speaker 2 (11:54) That does really bother me. But the thing that really bothers me. the most, and it's totally unforgivable. If someone mistreats a server, I just have no patience for that. I Speaker 1 (12:05) agree. Having had been at the receiving end of a lot of BS when I was a waitress, I couldn't agree with you more. Speaker 2 (12:12) So how did you deal with someone who was out of control? Did you have a way of dealing with them? Speaker 1 (12:17) You know, I'm of the kill them with kindness or just show them with your response how they're ridiculous. I never spit at anybody's anything. But Speaker 2 (12:28) you thought about pouring the coffee over their head. Oh, yeah. I Speaker 1 (12:31) thought it. But once you've waited on tables, you always have that mentality that you really care for the staff. And also, we all tip really well. Speaker 2 (12:41) It's a brutal job. It Speaker 1 (12:43) is. Yeah. Speaker 2 (12:44) Okay. Let's take some calls. Speaker 1 (12:46) Welcome to Milk Street. Who's calling? This is Penny Kider. Hi. Speaker 6 (12:51) Where are you calling Speaker 1 (12:51) from? Speaker 6 (12:53) Charlottesville, Virginia. Speaker 1 (12:54) Well, welcome. How can we help you? Speaker 6 (12:56) Okay. My question was, what kind of roast beef would my mom have cooked so beautifully when I was growing up? We couldn't afford, you know, really expensive cuts of meat. She's 99, and I asked her, and she doesn't remember exactly how she cooked roast beef. But I remember, I think, that she braised it in a pan, maybe on the stovetop, and then put it in the oven. And to me, it came out so beautifully. Maybe it's because I'm trying to shortcut and not braise it and waste a pan, put another one in the oven. But I'm wondering if you all have some secrets. Are Speaker 1 (13:40) we talking about roast beef or are we