Why Defense, Not Offense, Makes You a Profitable Trader

Chat With Traders

Tim Furey shares his journey from being Merrill Lynch's youngest commodity broker hire in decades to surviving a near-fatal medical emergency that gave him only a 5% chance of survival.

Key takeaways

• Tim Furey became Merrill Lynch's youngest commodity broker hire in nearly four decades after building an impressive book of business as a young underdog.
• Floor trading at the Chicago Board of Trade in the late 1990s focused exclusively on risk management, teaching traders to cut losses quickly using the 'power of the lean' strategy.

Main topics

• Floor trading and market microstructure
• Risk management and defensive trading strategies

Notable quotes

"The biggest thing I learned in the trading pit... you had to learn how to lose."

Conclusion

Furey's narrative underscores that sustainable success in trading and

Transcript preview

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And Speaker 1 (0:52) I just kept getting weaker and weaker when I was in the hospital. Finally, they had a specialist come look at me at 3 p.m. And it was, you know, I got there at 7 in the morning. 3 p.m., they had a specialist look at me and looks at my throat. He's like, we're going to have to take you to surgery. And I'm like, what are you talking about? No, no, no, just give me antibiotics. I'll be fine. No, he's like, you don't understand. You're going to be dead in two hours. They put me on there. And even when they were putting me on there, I'm like, this is not working, you know. But then eventually. I fell asleep and I woke up three and a half days later. For something that should have been a simple one-hour surgery, I woke up three and a half days later in another hospital. I can't even think about it. But those levels started coming down. It was a good sign. But they told me there's a 5 % chance of living once I went under. Speaker 3 (1:40) One of the first things you had written down, too, I heard you say was, I mean, because you couldn't speak. You had the respirator in. You wrote down to the doctors, am I going to live? You didn't even know if you were going to live. No, no, Speaker 1 (1:52) no. So I had the opportunity to be a floor tray market maker. I remember my first day when, you know, I go through the training program, I get licensed. Now I'm able to be on the floor. And the first day they, you know, the manager of the clearing firm I worked for, he's like, all right, get in there. And I'm like, you know, it was really crowded. I didn't know where to stand. It's the most intimidating place, I think, in the entire world. right? There's just, you know, hundreds of angry people yelling and screaming. And it was my first day. So I walked in, got on the first step and I walked out about 15 minutes later and I'm like, oh my God. So I went out, got a cup of coffee. I'm like, what did I do with my life? I just gave up, you know, the Merrill Lynch Futures Division and I moved to Chicago, you know, pretty much my girlfriend dumped me because of this. And I gave up everything for this. And I'm like, oh my God, I had no choice. And, you know, here's the thing, Kevin, and this goes out to the audience. What is the biggest thing I learned in the trading pit and how did we make money, right? And to answer that is you had to learn how to- Markets, Speaker 2 (2:59) speculation, and risk. This is the Chat with Traders podcast. Speaker 3 (3:07) Traders, we have a very exciting episode today of Chat with Traders. We have Tim Fury. He's the founder and CEO of TradeView Markets, a global brokerage serving traders around the world with more than 200 employees across multiple countries. Now, before building an international financial services business, Tim began his career as a commodity broker in the Merrill Lynch Futures division, where he became the youngest person hired into the role in nearly four decades. From there, he worked on the trading floors of the Chicago Board of Trade during one of the most transformative periods in market history. And then from there, he joined a proprietary hedge fund in Florida, trading firm Capital. So he's got a ton of experience, guys. And eventually, Tim, he bet on himself, though. He used every single penny and founded TradeView Markets and grew it into a global brokerage while developing just a leadership. mindset, a philosophy mindset centered around momentum, resilience, and continuous improvement. But Tim's story, guys, it's not just about the markets and business as well. In the middle of all of that, while building his company and raising a young family, his life changed overnight following a medical emergency that left him fighting for his life. That experience reshaped his perspective on leadership, success, and what truly matters. So today, guys, we're going to explore the lessons behind Tim's journey from the football field as well. By the way, he played football at Southern Connecticut State University. We'll go from that to the trading floor, to entrepreneur, to CEO now, and the mindset that has carried him through both extraordinary success and profound adversity. So Tim, welcome to Chat with Traders. Hey, Speaker 1 (4:52) Kevin. Speaker 3 (4:53) Yeah, great. Thank you for the intro. Absolutely. Hey, Speaker 1 (4:57) I'll take it. Thank you. Speaker 3 (5:00) You know, I've been researching you a lot over the last week, Tim. And one of the things that really captivated me in your story is just how you are constantly taking setbacks and you turn them into fuel. And is that the mindset you have to have when becoming either trader or CEO? Speaker 1 (5:18) I, dude, uh, good question. Uh, I ask that every day, you know, how do other people have an easy life, even, you know, the successful ones? And, you know, I meet them every day. They seem to be doing, they seem to be on cruise control where every single day is like a battle for me. You know, and, you know, I'm 55. It kind of wears you down a little bit, but then you wake up the next morning and you're ready to. do it again. It's kind of like being a boxer, right? It's like, and going against somebody competitive. Life is competitive. The world is competitive. Business is competitive, right? And you're going to have a boxer mentality to wake up every day. Wow. You Speaker 3 (6:07) know, so have you always been like this? I know you were competitive back in your youth. You played college football. So take us back, rewind time a little bit. Have you always been on the battlefield? Have you had this mindset? Speaker 1 (6:19) You know, I could tell this story now, but back then, you know, I was maybe a little embarrassed, right? Because, yeah, I've always been competitive, right? You know, for example, football. I had the opportunity to play college football, right? That was my dream. And it was very competitive, right? I thought I was, you know, a very good high school player, right? And then once I went into college, it was like... Oh, my God. You know, I'm like, they may not. They may cut me. Right. So my my first freshman year, I went in, you know, and I was I was a fullback. And there were a big recruiting class and there were there were 12 fullbacks. I was in the 12th spot, you know, so during football camp, I'm like, I panicked. I'm like, oh, my God. If they cut me, you know, I'll lose my benefits in the school. And, you know, maybe I have to leave school. I don't know. So I went all out. And, you know, so we had, it's called football camps before college starts. It's two weeks before college starts. So you try to prepare for the season. So I was in the 12th spot. And the next day I was in the 11th spot. Next day, 10th spot. You know, maybe. Somebody crawled out the window there in football camp because it's too tough for them. So now I'm in the eighth spot, right? But, you know, I fought for my life. And by the end of camp, I was in the number two spot. So, you know, I had to fight every way, learn the whole thing. And, you know, it's that mentality. You know, there's some great athletes. I was a good athlete. But in order to become great, I had to work 10. times harder than anyone else. I had no choice. If that's what it took to succeed, I was willing to do it. And that's what I did. That's what I did during my college years. Eventually, you know, I had a couple opportunities. I got some playing time. And when I did have playing time, man, I, people knew my name, right? I had some really good, I did some really good things on the field. My senior year, I finally got the starting spot. But, you know, we were rebuilding year that team that year. And I still had to share my starting spot with the up and coming running back because I was going to graduate that year. So, yeah, you know, fighting. It's in my blood. And in business, it's the same thing. It doesn't stop. Speaker 3 (8:55) Doesn't stop and hasn't. Now, back in your college days. playing football, there was a coach that had a profound impact on you. Can you tell us a little about that? Speaker 1 (9:05) Yeah, well, you know, Coach Cavanaugh, we call him Coach Cav, he was the head coach, and he gave me the opportunity to come to that team, right? And, you know, I'm still friends with him today, and I thank him every day, give him a hug every time I see him. I get emotional even thinking about it because I owe this guy a lot. And then there was a guy called Jeff Stoutland. who was the offensive coordinator. You know, I was a fullback on offense. And this was the hardest working human being I've ever met in my life. The guy just had so much energy from, you know, he'd be the first in in the morning, right? And he'd be the last one to leave, right? He'd be doing X's and O's, you know, of the offensive line and plays till two in the morning. And, you know, it's just, and, you know, he was hard on his players. But everybody loved this guy. People would die for this guy. Like, how can you be in that position where you demand, you know, so much from your players? You demand greatness from them, right? You're going to have to be mean to them. You're going to have to put them on the bench, right? But he had a way that people loved this guy and would die for him. So, you know, he was a big mentor for me because I watched in the background, you know, during my years there. And I'm like, you know, this guy's going somewhere. I just know it, you know, and and then, you know, after football, I graduated and I took that, you know, like his work ethic into the business world because I was an underdog. Right. I'm coming from a state university. You know, I'm I'm smart enough, but, you know, I'm competing for jobs where, you know, the people from Ivy League schools, those are the jobs I'm competing for. Right. And to get in. You know, you had to use the side door, the back door, whatever. So, yeah, I, you know, I had a great mentor and I was lucky I got to watch him every single day. Speaker 3 (11:04) Incredible. Now, Jeff Stoutland had a saying as well, didn't he? A quote that's stuck with you to this day. What is Speaker 1 (11:12) that? Yeah, he said it. when we were playing, this is back in the 90s, right? It's hungry dogs run faster, right? He would say that every day. He would yell it out in the practice to get us to work hard. He would say it before a game, even the playbook, right? That I just saw like two months ago, an old playbook. One of my friends who was the quarterback, he saved it. And it said hungry dogs run faster. Now, That saying is famous now because, you know, Coach Stalin, after, you know, after Southern Connecticut, my college, he went on to other colleges, right? I think he went on to Michigan. He went to Miami. He was Alabama, right? They won, what, three championships under him, right? Maybe four. And he was the offensive line coach and run coordinator. And then... He got... brought to the Philadelphia Eagles. And he's made history there. He's the offensive line coach. And he's brought in some of the best recruits that's ever played a game. And he built them from, you know, from where they were to, to where they went. And he was great on getting greatness out of people. That was his thing. So hungry dogs run faster. And he was. all about getting greatness out of you. And he had the ability to do it. All Speaker 3 (12:48) right. With that quote, Tim, hungry dogs run faster. You know, it seems like that's just been a common thread that's run through your life now. And you've always been a fighter too. I'd heard one time you gave an analogy where, look, When you're down 14 points in a football game, that's when Tim is most hungry. That's when you're fighting for your life. So how do you take that, though, and apply it in the seasons, I guess, of success? Like, for example, I just heard recently, too, in one of your interviews where you were about to... surpass a billion dollars, your company. So congrats if you hit that mark. So let's say you're feasting at the table. For the traders listening, they're trading well, they're consistent. For the business owners listening, they're successful. How do you stay hungry and determined and motivated when you're in success? Speaker 1 (13:37) I, that's a good question. It might be just because I'm wired that way. You know, I don't see it in other people, you know, especially kids, right? And I think maybe I just wired that way, you know, because, you know, when, for example, when you start out a football game, you know, unfortunately, sometimes you could start out slow, right? Feel it out, right? Next thing you know, you're down 14 points. And then something kicks in. All fear is gone and you have to win. And that's when you like dig deeper and work harder because you have to. You have no choice because I decided I'm going to win. And the same thing in business. If you decide you're going to win, you know, some days are going to be easy. But if you get, you know, if you just work OK or somewhat hard, you know, you. you're going to come across things where you're going to have to work much harder. And it just happens every single day. Yeah, Speaker 3 (14:41) maybe it's identifying like another target even, because you've talked about finding a way to win, just always finding a way to win. So maybe it's just having the mindset like I haven't won. You know, there's the next target perhaps. Speaker 1 (14:54) Right. But, you know, everything, there's always something, right, that gets thrown on you. And when something's thrown on me, no matter what the odds are, I'm going to find a way to win. No matter what, you know, I'll go. I'll wake up two in the morning and when I wake up, I can't go back to sleep because there may be something on my mind and I'm going through every scenario in my mind. Everything I learned from, you know, when I was three years old till now, 55, I'm reviewing and trying to find an angle on how to win. Speaker 3 (15:28) Absolutely. Well, Merrill Lynch, they saw that winning attitude in you because you were their youngest hire in 40 years. So tell us about that. Speaker 1 (15:38) Yeah, I was a commodity broker at a small firm, and this is back in the 90s, right, where you had to smile and dial, right? You had to, you know, at the end of the day, I did 250 calls, hopefully talked to the right people. You get these lead lists, you know, and that's when you can do these kind of things. Well, you know, I had the attitude where I wanted to work harder than anybody else in the office. So, you know, I would become rejection-proof. I would talk to as many people as possible. And I built... an amazing book of business where, you know, I was number one broker in a small company. Merrill Lynch, you know, I met one of the managers at this seminar. And I'm like, wow, that's the big dogs, you know? And I'm like, you know, tell me about it. You know, I was so excited to meet him because he ran the futures division. And I'm like, you know, what is it like to work with these guys, these top people in the industry? And I was so excited to meet him. And he's like, tell me a little bit about you. And I told him. And he's like, I want to meet you in my office tomorrow. And I went and met with him. I showed him my book of business. He's like, this is outstanding. He's like, what are you doing tomorrow? I want to fly you down to meet the regional manager. And he's in Miami. So they spent like $1,500 on a ticket to fly me down there tomorrow. They didn't even delay. Flew me down there the next day. I walk into the interview, and the regional manager's like, you know, I just interviewed 10 guys the other day, and I threw them all out of the office. What makes you think I want to interview you? You know, or what makes you think I'm interested in you? I'm like, well, you know, you did spend $1,500 to fly me on a ticket, fly me down here the very next day, you know, but. Talk is cheap. This is what I've done. And I explained to him. And he loved it. He loved it. And we connected, where all of a sudden now they hire me, and this regional manager became another mentor of mine because he was just full of knowledge. And he was the one that, you know, I love Merrill's Futures division, right? I learned a ton from the old-timers. But my passion was to become a trader. at the Chicago Board of Trade. I wanted to learn my craft, right? And to really learn it, you got to go to ground zero of trading, right? So with him, with the regional manager, he gave me the opportunity to go there. to move to Chicago and become a floor trader at the Chicago Board of Trade. So that was my next step. Speaker 3 (18:14) Yeah, talk us through the next step. What was that environment like? What did you learn there? What did you learn in the pits that traders today don't appreciate that maybe you can apply to electronic trading these days? Speaker 1 (18:27) Yeah, it's a good story because it was the late 90s, right? This is when you still... There's still open outcry. You wave your hands, right? When you want to buy, you have to put your hands up. You got to put the amount up and you got to, you know, wave your fingers around and you got to stand up all day yelling and screaming and hopefully you're getting the trades, right? So I had the opportunity to be a floor trade market maker. I remember my first day when, you know, I go through the training program, I get. licensed. Now I'm able to be on the floor. And the first day they, you know, the manager of the clearing firm I worked for, he's like, all right, get in there. And I'm like, you know, it was really crowded. I didn't know where to stand. It's the most intimidating place, I think, in the entire world, right? There's just, you know, hundreds of angry people yelling and screaming. And it was my first day. So I walked in, got on the first step, and I walked out about 15 minutes later. And I'm like, oh, my God. So I went out, got a cup of coffee. I'm like, what did I do with my life? I just gave up, you know, the Merrill Lynch Futures Division. And I moved to Chicago. You know, pretty much my girlfriend dumped me because of this. And I gave up everything for this. And I'm like, oh, my God, I had no choice. I came back later in the day when it slowed down, which was a lot better because in the morning it's crazy and it's chaos. But it slowed down a little. I got on a... you know, a stoop. And then I put my hands up a little bit, but I still didn't know what to really do. And every day I go back into the clearing firm, you know, where they train you and they're like,