How To Overcome The Conversational Debt That Holds Teams Back, With Gustavo Razzetti

Career Sessions - JR Lowry

Teams fail not from lack of talent but from avoided conversations. Gustavo Razzetti introduces 'conversational debt'—the hidden cost of unspoken issues that erode trust and momentum. The episode explores how silence, not

Key takeaways

• Silence creates conversational debt that compounds over time

Transcript preview

Most teams don't fail because they lack talent. They fail because they're not having necessary conversations. Think about all the meetings that you've been in, and I have certainly been in some, where everyone kind of nods and agrees and leaves, only for nothing to actually change, or worse, where the real conversation is happening afterwards in the hallway or in a messaging platform or behind closed doors somewhere. And today's guest Gustavo Rosetti argues that this phenomenon is much more than about bad communication. it conversational debt, the hidden cost of avoided tensions, unspoken concerns, the decisions that never really get made. And the interesting part is that we assume that people stay silent because they're afraid to speak up. And I'm sure there's some truth in that, but Gustavo's research also suggests that something far worse is going on. People are saying silent because they don't believe speaking up will matter. And that sense of pointlessness erodes trust, it kills momentum and it keeps smartest team stuck. In his new book forward talk Gustavo lays out a practical approach for turning conversations from something we avoid into something that actually drives progress and today we're gonna explore why teams get stuck why psychological safety may not be the full answer and what it really takes to create conversations that move both people and organizations forward. I'm J. R. Lowry this is career sessions Gustavo welcome to the show. Thank you for having me. Absolutely so we're gonna dive right in. You've got a new book out. which talks about teams and I know you argue that teams often don't fail because they have a lack of talent but because they're not having the right conversations which is a pretty bold claim would love to hear you talk a little bit more about the conversations that we're missing in our teams. I'm talking about strategic conversations right not the coaching the how to communicate clearly and so and so forth. My focus is on teamwork so there are conversations not one-on-one but collective conversations. And what's missing is basically the difficult conversations, the topics that we don't want to address the different perspectives. Sometimes we look that we are lying, we look that we are all on the same page, simply because we don't want to rock the boat, we don't want to upset our manager, we don't want to look like, hey, you're not a team player for speaking truth to power or challenging the status quo, but then those conversations that are missing at some point are going to explode. I think you make the point that these conversations compound over time, right, in a nonlinear kind of fashion that there's a bit of exponential growth to them if you let them linger for longer. There's a phenomenon that most people, I work a lot with teams in workshops and consulting, and they always have the illusion that things are going to go away magically. When I have a one-on-one conversation, everyone knows what's happening, but then when they get together in the room, no one wants to address those issues. call this compounding effect conversational debt. It's like, okay, we're making some money, maybe I overspent, maybe go out for dinner too frequently, and we see nothing's gonna happen until the credit card statement comes and we see that that debt starts to pile. The same happens with teams, no, we think, oh, and it's not a big deal, but when you have not a big deal, one after the other, then it becomes a big, big deal. That phrase, conversational debt really resonated with me. it captures the essence of it perfectly as I think about my own experience working in the corporate world for several decades when you have those situations where people just don't talk about the things that are really necessary right the elephants in the room or whatever you want to call them it just gets worse and worse the point where the team is for all practical purposes even if they're getting along it's kind of a dysfunctional team. The best way to address conflict is when it starts and the next best moment is now. So the more we keep waiting, the more it's going to go out of hand. And I think that we have that fantasy that a conflict disappears and it doesn't. We're with leaders that don't want to have those hard feedback conversations with team members because they don't want to go through that tense conversation, they don't want to go through that moment in which people get upset or maybe they're not going to like them as leaders, whatever. But I always tell them the person that's having some kind of of a performance issue knows. They know that you are not happy. They know that you're looking at them like frustrated. So they're waiting for that conversation to happen. It's like a couple that are going through rough patch and both know that they need to sit and say, hey, how we can know or we launch our marriage, our partnership? So someone has to go first. The thing that I thought was more of a bold claim, I guess I know I used that phrase a minute ago. You make the point that you make the point that don't speak up, not because they're afraid to speak up, but because they don't see the point. I mean, that's like dark in a way that people have just, in essence, given up on their teams. It is dark, but it's also clear and it gives us a different kind of path. The point is when leaders see my team is not speaking. I would say, were they speaking in the past? So try to get when you started, the first meeting you had with them, did they share their concerns, did tell you what was wrong with the former leader, So people at some point stop sharing their perspectives and this is because nothing changes. And this is very interesting because people usually think that people don't speak up because of fear, because of the culture. But I've seen a lot of cultures that are really nice, well people are happy, let's promote and nurture a safe environment so people feel safe. But no one wants to basically rock the boat, they don't want to create any friction so people don't speak about. Yeah, you're. your leaders going to listen, they're going to hear your concerns, but then there's no action, no change. It's like those employee engagement surveys that we complete every 12 months, twice a year, whatever the cadence is. But then after sharing nothing changes, so what I would continue to raise my hand and share my opinion if nothing will matter. For people who are sitting in a team that gets to be a very frustrating existence, right? I can think of time sorry I've been there. You feel like you're talking to a wall, you're talking to a wall, you're talking to a wall, you make a controversial point or you bring up something that will create a sense of conflict and tension in the room and then everybody else just kind of looks down and your peers sort of leave you hanging out there right and then it becomes not a team discussion anymore but it's you kind of and is the boss gonna engage on this topic or is the boss just gonna move on and change topics and when that happens enough they just change topics you just realize well what's the point of bringing these things up you're not gonna pay any attention to them anyway and that's try I feel like you've kind of hit a person on a person on a person on a person on a person on a person on a person on a person on a And it's a paradox because it's like you're shooting yourself on the foot because if you're not raising the issues once again those issues are going to harm you and the team as well. There's an interesting point on what you were saying. We talk about the walls. Of course the manager plays a big role and probably many of your audience are managers but there are also people that are not in a position of power but still contribute to this kind of defeat mindset. I always say agreement. happens in the room, alignment is what happens after. Because we can all agree when we're together, but then when we implement, are we really aligned into implementation? And those water cooler conversations with my team members, we start saying, you know what, I don't care about this, so we are feeding that darkness, using the term that you use before. So it's not just the boss, the problem, sometimes our own colleagues, pulled us down. Teams are teams, right? You know, right. You're teams are, right. You know, right. analogy you can blame the coach on the sideline for everything that goes wrong in the game but you know there's five and basketball 11 of you in a soccer football team out there on the field the pitch and if you're not working well together you can't really blame the coach for that and again thinking about my own experience have sat through beatings where teammates are really not carrying