Dr. Becky: Parenting 101

Call Her Daddy

In this episode of Call Her Daddy, host Alex Cooper sits down with clinical psychologist Dr. Becky Kennedy to discuss parenting philosophy,

Key takeaways

• Kids are born good inside but lack skills to manage big emotions, leading to challenging behaviors.
• Parenting mindset—seeing a child as 'good having a hard time' versus 'bad doing bad things'—shapes effective responses.

Main topics

• Sturdy Parenting
• Gentle Parenting Misconceptions

Notable quotes

"Kids are born good inside. They're born with all the feelings and none of the skills."

"A sturdy parent is able to listen and care without losing themselves in the process."

Conclusion

Dr. Becky emphasizes that effective parenting isn't about perfection but about

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:02) What is up, daddy gang? It is your founding father, Alex Cooper with Call Her Daddy. Speaker 1 (0:11) Dr. Becky, welcome to Call Her Daddy. So excited to be here. Thank you. Speaker 2 (0:15) Okay. You are a clinical psychologist and you are often referred to as the millennial parent whisperer. You essentially break down parenting in a very smart... empathetic way. And so I think all of my Daddy Gang moms or future moms to be are going to really enjoy this episode. But I also think for anyone who maybe that isn't their journey, I do think they're going to get a lot out of this episode as well, because we are going to talk about boundaries and attachment theory and confidence, which is applicable to everyone. So thank you for being here. Excited to jump into it all. You also kind of had this moment where you turned this parenting philosophy, good inside, into essentially a huge brand. And this has become like kind of like the cornerstone of like a lot of things you talk about. Can you explain the idea behind that name? Yeah. Speaker 1 (1:10) I think it goes back to so many more years ago than even my Instagram started where I said, okay, so if I'm going to give myself permission to question the pure punishment timeout version of parenting, what am I left with? If I strip away all the assumptions from a first principles perspective, and I was kind of left with two things. One was I think kids are born good inside. Like I just don't believe babies are born thinking I'm going to wake up my parents a lot and you know, and make them not sleep and give them a hard time. I think kids are born good inside. And then this other thing I was left with is that kids are born with all the feelings and none of the skills. And so that's why good kids do a lot of bad things. Because when any of us, by the way, at any age, have feelings that overpower skills, they come out as behavior. And so it all came down to that. And that first idea that we're born good inside explains why we need to teach skills, that we don't have to so much insert all these things into a kid. They kind of have them and we have to help Speaker 2 (2:12) them access them. I love that because I think so much of it, you're right, is like. It does put a lot on the parents where it's like this is a lot of this can actually be in your control to help your child continue to be good. Of course, there's going to be mess ups and of course, there's going to be hardships. But it's like most children are coming out and are good human beings. And then by nurture and nature, it's like what is going to happen in their circumstances? They're going to mold them into the human being. They're going to. be. And no pressure, parents, but you are a majority of that. So Speaker 1 (2:47) buckle up and good luck. Yeah. And it sounds intimidating, but I think actually so much of the idea of goodness I came down to in my practice, everyone wants to know what to do. What do I do when my kid hits? What do I do when my kid lies to my face? But way before we can think of an effective strategy, it actually comes down to what's my mindset? How am I looking at my kid? And I think there's two mindsets we have when our kid acts out. Do I have a good kid having a hard time or do I have a bad kid doing bad things? And there's no strategy that matters as much as thinking about that mindset. By the way, it's the same as a marriage. My husband's annoying me. Is he a good person having a hard time or is he a bad person doing things to me? And everything flows from there. Such a good point. Okay, we need to get into gentle parenting. Yeah, we do. Speaker 2 (3:36) Because... I was so excited to ask you about this because I know it is very buzzy. It's very controversial. People have a lot of thoughts. Even like in prepping for this, I was like asking around like, oh, like what's your parenting style? Just to see if anyone I'm interacting with does gentle parenting. And so I want to get your opinion. Where do you stand on this approach? And also for anyone that maybe doesn't know what it is, if you can explain it a little bit. Speaker 1 (4:04) So I don't even know if I'm the best person to explain it. And I think probably it's been portrayed like most things in these extreme ways in the media that nobody actually believes. It's just makes for funny memes, you know? So I think the stereotypical gentle parent. focuses a lot on their Speaker 2 (4:22) kids' feelings. A Speaker 1 (4:23) lot. Oh, you're so mad. No wonder you're so mad. They really care about their kids' feelings. And I don't think the intention is to stay there. But I think people believe that gentle parenting is an attention on your kids' feelings without a focus on boundaries and rules and kind of the other half. And so the term gentle parenting, what I can say, has never appealed to me. Because when I think about my best parenting moments, gentle is just so far down the list of how I would describe myself. And I think we talk a lot at Good Inside about being a sturdy parent. And it's not a word we often use, but I think in your own life, you probably know someone who feels sturdy, and they're at once able to listen to you and care for you, but they in no way... lose themselves in the process, like you can locate them as well. I think that's what we need to go for. Such a good point, because I feel like I was having Speaker 2 (5:19) this conversation with my friend the other day, just obviously as I'm preparing to become a parent. And I a lot of my life, I was so fortunate to look up to really incredible parents, my mom and my dad. I that's half the reason I was worried about getting married, because I'm like, how am I going to replicate this? Because they did such a great job. And I feel like that's probably more like less common than the other situation and so I got really lucky but something I always felt with my mom was like she was so solid in her parenting techniques and I really now when I look back no I was such a good word to hear from her as much as it was probably annoying when I was a child I No actually made me feel safe. At the time, it pissed me off. But my mother telling me no and giving me boundaries, it actually allowed me as a child to feel safe and make me feel like, OK, there are parameters that a sturdy person is putting around me. And I'm not the one in control. Because when a child feels in control, like they can do anything, I don't know who I would have. I would have become a monster, Becky. Speaker 1 (6:30) Me too. I would have been off the rails. I think you're right. Safety exists within a container. If you feel like you can control the edges of the world yourself, it's terrifying. You won't say it as a kid. You seem happy in the moment because there's no overt conflict, but those are the people, I can't even tell you how many 20-somethings I've seen in my practice who feel really angry later on at their parents. Like, oh, I was mad at you so you didn't set rules that were good for me? Speaker 2 (7:02) That pisses me off now. Okay, can we talk about some like maladaptive behaviors that you see that could come as a result of gentle parenting? Speaker 1 (7:11) Yeah, and again, I believe we have to let kids know their feelings are real. And... Kids' feelings cannot dictate parental decisions and world realities, right? I think we've gone from, you don't want to go to Aunt Sally's, who cares, stop whining, to you don't want to go to Aunt Sally's, so now one of us will stay home and you don't have to go. And so if I think about what that means, let's say then 10 years from now, 20 years from now, it's a really dangerous thing for people to think my feelings give me the right to change the world around me. My feelings are information, but my feelings are more of a signal than some external truth. It can lead to a lot of narcissism. It can lead to really unhealthy relationship patterns. Right, Speaker 2 (7:59) because it's almost like the kid is kind of then in control always. Yes. And once they learn that. then it's kind of a free for all because now it's all predicated on what your child is feeling and then you're going to adapt for them and they never kind of almost have to go through the hardships of learning like that's not how this works. And then I can imagine in school or with peers when they don't get what they want, they're going to have friction because other kids are going to be like. We all were told we can't do that. Why are you still trying to do it? Speaker 1 (8:28) Yeah. Learning how to tolerate things not going your way. Learning how to tolerate disappointment. Learning how to tolerate jealousy. These are the skills of life. And you can't develop skills for experiences you've never had. So if every time you feel a feeling, your parent gives you an exit ramp, you're going to expect the world to give you exit ramps. Speaker 2 (8:49) Okay. So talking about being a sturdy parent. Yes. I know that you have kind of used this like pilot metaphor before. And I think that could maybe help people understand it even more. Can you explain how this translates to parenting? Speaker 1 (9:04) Yes. So imagine being a passenger. Okay. And I'm assuming you don't have a... pilot license, do you? No, Speaker 2 (9:10) I Speaker 1 (9:10) do not. I would mess up my metaphor. Okay, and there's intense turbulence, like not normal, really intense turbulence. And I think in that situation, let's say you, the other passengers are kind of screaming, you're nervous. And I think there's one of three announcements that could come on from the pilot, and they perfectly kind of mimic different approaches to parenting. So one, pilot one says, hey, everyone, stop screaming back there. You're freaking out over nothing. You are so dramatic. Why can't you have one? flight where you're just calm. It's no big deal. Right? Oh my God. Can you imagine? Well, exactly. I would be more activated. Me too. First of all, I'd be thrown off that my screaming is enough to make my pilot unnerved. I also, if my pilot says it's not even big turbulence, if I felt like it was, I'd be like, well, it... Maybe it is. Are you missing something? Right. You know, Speaker 2 (10:00) why do I feel like I know a little bit more than you in this moment? Exactly. Or why are you trying to downplay this in this moment? Exactly. So Speaker 1 (10:06) that's pilot one. Not so good. Pilot two is kind of the opposite extreme, which is, hey, guys, it's a lot of turbulence. I'm going to open up the cockpit doors. If anyone back there wants to come and fly the plane, because this is a really tricky situation and maybe one of you knows what to do. And this is when we don't have any authority. There's no boundaries. And we look to our passengers to make decisions that really should rely on a closed cockpit. We are not equal decision makers with our kid. Right. I mean, I'm not even scared of the turbulence anymore. I'm just scared that this person's my pilot. Right. And so I think the first situation is kind of pure reactivity. The second situation is no boundaries. And here's pilot three. Hey, guys, I hear you screaming back there. There's a lot of turbulence. By the way, if you want to keep screaming, scream away. I've been a pilot a number of years. I know we're going to get through the situation. I'm going to stop this announcement right now and go back to doing my job and I'll see you when we land at LAX. I want that pilot. I'm like, yes. Exactly. And I think there's two components. They validated my reality. If I think the turbulence is enough to scream, that is based in some reality in my body. I don't know if it's really big turbines, but I'm already screaming. I want that scene. But I don't want my feelings to be contagious to my pilot. That's terrifying. So I literally need that boundary. Kind of, I understand you're upset and you're upset doesn't. infiltrate my experience. I can hold my own experience separate from that. Right. Speaker 2 (11:39) And it doesn't impact my ability as the parent, a.k.a. the pilot, to do the job that you are fully relying on me to do. And that is so putting it in that terms, I think, is so digestible because I agree. I would freak out if there was a pilot who was kind of like unknowing of what's going on. And I bet that's how children can sense like. Oh, my parent has no idea what's going on. And that's, again, when they are going to act out. You see it with the kids when the parents are like, I don't know. And they're anxious. Like, what do we do? And they're like, you don't know. Oh, let's wreak havoc. Because if you don't know that I'm going to take charge and it's going to be a disaster. I mean, Speaker 1 (12:19) it's so thoughtful and insightful that you said that, because that's exactly right. Where parents will then say. But then my kid takes advantage of me. No, your kid gets activated because when we say things like, hey, I'm going to change altitude now, okay? Okay? Is that okay? I'm going to make an emergency landing, guys. Okay? No. No, okay. Don't ask me. Why are you... I'm going to turn off the TV now. Okay. That will make a kid. It's not take advantage, but they sense that there's no pilot. And I think a four-year-old is similar to, I'm going to go out with my friends. Okay. And dad's going to put you to bed. And I need to go out with my friends to be a happy person. And my four-year-old's like, are you asking my permission to have a life? That is so, that feels so bad for a four-year-old. Right. Because it feels unstable. So unstable. It's Speaker 2 (13:10) not Speaker 1 (13:10) sturdy. Why are Speaker 2 (13:11) you looking to me? Thank you to Klaviyo for sponsoring today's segment. Okay, so something I recognize is that every single week you guys see me on Call Her Daddy interviewing a guest or doing a solo episode. And I love that part of my job truly so much. But another aspect of my business that has been so fulfilling is building a company that has the ability to make a real impact. And I have realized that A lot of you probably don't know what goes on behind the scenes at Unwell, the people, the initiatives, and essentially the work that we're doing outside of just creating the content that you see every day. So about two and a half years ago, we launched the Unwell Foundation, and it was really important to me and my company and all of us to basically use the incredible opportunities that we have been given to find ways also to give back in a very meaningful way. At the core of the Unwell Foundation, it is supporting women. Over the last few years, we have donated money, resources, our time to help women across the country, whether that means supporting women who have experienced homelessness or abuse, helping provide resources for mothers and their children, or also just partnering with organizations focused on women's mental health, financial health, physical health, whatever it be. As the foundation has grown, we have... basically wanted to expand our reach beyond just Los Angeles and we've wanted to connect with more organizations and women across the country. Klaviyo has helped us do that by allowing us to basically organize our outreach and communicate more efficiently and connect with foundations and individuals. who align with the work that we are trying to do. As Call Her Daddy continues to grow, staying connected to the Daddy Gang will always be one of the most important parts of what we do. You can build more personalized, valuable customer relationships with Klaviyo.com. So Speaker 1 (15:10) let's Speaker 2 (15:10) talk about parenting styles, though, when... two parents you've got two people a lot of times in these dynamics right we have the absolute incredible women who are doing it on their own which i'm like you know what you deserve every award in the book let's say you do have two people in the parenting dynamic okay and one of those people came from a really strict household and the other one came from a pretty relaxed household. And so you have two parents that are trying to navigate how to parent, but they have very different approaches. Yeah. How does this impact the child? Speaker 1 (15:52) Well, I think I'll start with the partnership because that matters, which and you kind of alluded to it, but I think it is important to understand that parenting is a language, right? And whatever language. was in our home is going to be the thing that comes naturally, whether we want it to or not. Because some parents say, my parents were too strict. But still, when my kid says to me, you're the worst dad in the world, you're the worst mom, my body is going to look in and say, what do I know about situations like this in terms of how to respond? And you might find the words coming out of your mouth that You told yourself you'd never say. So coming into having kids or at any point reflecting what happened in my home and what am I bringing to this whether I want to or not? That's number one. Number two, I think you're talking about, you know, what happens when you have two parents who aren't on the same page? How does that impact the kid? I think the thing that's hardest for the kid is when those differences lead to a lot of undermining and overt conflict with the kid. Because kids then internalize that and they that's one more thing they're trying to hold in their body and often is a reason for a lot more acting out. They're just like absorbing all the conflict. Could you Speaker 2 (17:02) give an example of that? Speaker 1 (17:04) So let's just say, you know, it's me and my husband and he hears me say after this episode, I'm turning off the TV. Right. OK. And I go and I turn off the TV and my kid starts whining. And then my husband says, you know, just give him five more minutes. That's really, really hard on the kid. Because now I'll probably say, whoa, I'm working on holding this boundary and different things. And why am I the only adult in this house? And then my kid isn't just responding to ending screen time. They're responding to, ooh, again, we live in systems. So the system around me that I need to feel safe doesn't itself feel so safe. Versus I say this and my husband thinks, Becky, you're a little uptight. Let's just say he thinks that. Probably some truth to that. And he finds me later. And he says, look, I feel like screen time limits, especially it could have been 10 more minutes, whatever his argument is, right? Finding me outside the moment, but in the moment, kind of backing up my choice and tolerating the kids whining and not undermining me. We're never going to agree with everything with our spouse, but how much it comes into play kind of comes alive. right next to my kid i think you know that's the biggest difference i can imagine how Speaker 2 (18:24) again also disorienting that is for the child because it's already hard for a kid to be like okay i have to listen to my parents right and if you're wavering like we've talked about it's confusing to them so then to have two complete people that have authority over you on different pages I can't imagine how like split their brain is trying to navigate because then you're also not seeing this as a unit. That's right. And so I hear what you're saying, which is great advice is it's like, even if in the moment you disagree with what your partner maybe is doing, it's a conversation not in front of the child because you want to present as a united front. Speaker 1 (19:04) Yes. Speaker 2 (19:05) Yes. So that the children are obviously respecting you, but more so. So the child has that sturdy pilot in front of them and they don't have to be like. But all the time that my dad does this or my mom does this or my mom and my mom do that, it's like too much for the kid to process when they're just trying to be like, I thought I was starting to figure out the boundary. Yeah. And you guys actually made the boundary more confusing. Yeah. Speaker 1 (19:27) It's kind of like hearing your co-pilots argue about what altitude you should be flying at. Speaker 2 (19:31) Right. Right. And like the button gets pressed and you're not supposed to be hearing it. You're like. I feel like the plane's going down. Can you two focus Speaker 1 (19:37) on doing the job instead of fighting? That's exactly right. And, you know, it's interesting because someone asked me this question recently and I brought it to my own husband because I have this these kids I call deeply feeling kids who I think kind of need a little bit of a different approach. And anyway, and someone said, how did you get your husband on board with that approach? Because he was definitely raised not, you know, in the same way. And I asked him, how did I get you on board? He goes, I'm not on board. I was like, oh, what? You know? You're like, excuse Speaker 2 (20:03) me? I was like, that just Speaker 1 (20:03) blew my mind. He goes, I'm not on board. Like so much of my body, especially when our daughter was younger, was Speaker 2 (20:09) saying like, I Speaker 1 (20:10) want to do things differently. But I just didn't get in the way. And I kind of watched it and I trusted you. And I just think when I shared this with our community, they found it very liberating. Maybe I don't need my partner to have 100 % agreement. But what if we just chose different lanes where we said to each other, I'm not going to undermine what you're doing and let's watch it play out for a certain number of months, however long, and then revisit it. It's kind of like at work. You're not always going to agree with what another team is doing, but... You probably say, let's give this six months. Let's see how this plays out. And I'm not going to come to every meeting arguing against this project you're working on. Speaker 2 (20:47) Well, it's such a good point, too. It's like there's never even when you're in a relationship without children, there is no winning an argument. It's finding that middle ground where you both feel heard and respected. And when it comes to a child and parenting a child, I'm assuming it's then applicable to be like. one of us is going to have more of like an innate feeling of how we should approach this. And if you feel so strongly, I have to respect and trust you. Let's go with it. And that's great. And then we can adjust if it doesn't work. But it's way better than us both walking in and be like, no, I just know. And the kids are listening. They're like, which one should I listen to today? They're a ping pong ball. I think like disagree and commit, you know, does this in any capacity when we're talking about, you know. parenting and being on the same page or any of that. You talk about being long term greedy. Yeah. And I am so fascinated. I need you to explain this because I'm like, what does that mean? Speaker 1 (21:40) Yeah. Where I think about how many years our kids are young and in our home and then how many years our kids are going to be older and out of our home. And those are the same differences in years where our kids are either locked into a relationship with us when they live with us. And then after they're out of our house, they get to choose. the type of relationship they have with us. And also, the stakes only get higher in life. Don't get me wrong. Dealing with the sandbox drama is so stressful. But if my kid doesn't know how to play well with others when they're in a job or when they're 45, I think the stakes are higher. And so I think we generally have kind of two options in all of these different hard moments with our kid. I mean, they're intervening for comfort and happiness today. But in doing that, I'm probably not helping my kid develop the skills they will need long term. Or to be honest, because it's not all fun and games, I am enduring some amount of short term inconvenience and pain today because I know this ladders up to something important. So here's a great example. We're kind of getting close to back to school. My kid or... I get the school list and I find out, oh my goodness, my daughter isn't with her four best friends in class and school hasn't started yet. And I'm thinking, do I call the school? And my kids get so anxious and she's going to be so upset. If I'm short-term focused, meaning I'm trying to optimize for my kids' short-term comfort and happiness, I'm going to call the school. Long term, what gets wired in their body, right, because a kid's early years with us forms their default settings for what to expect later on is, I don't know, I'm sure there's going to be a day in college where she sees her friends have a dorm room without her. And I don't know, do I want my kid to call me and be like, will you call the dorm? Or do I want my kid to know by that point, this sucks, but I already have had life experience to see I can survive it and cope with it. And so when I think about long-term greediness, I think about, and by the way, we don't do this 100 % of the time. There's some percentage of me