The Thursday Show: Thibaut acquires Pindler. Plus: Warren Shoulberg on the state of retail

Business of Home Podcast

In this episode of The Thursday Show, host Dennis Scully and Business of Home Editor-in-Chief Kaitlin Petersen discuss major industry news,

Key takeaways

• Tebow's acquisition of Pindler marks its third deal in four years, signaling a strategic focus on mergers and acquisitions to expand brand portfolio and cultural alignment.
• The acquisition highlights the importance of shared values and team culture during M&A processes, with Tebow CEO Rick Kilmer emphasizing alignment with Pindler's leadership and people-first ethos.

Main topics

• Tebow acquisition of Pindler
• AI content labeling on Instagram

Notable quotes

"He said that, you know, that kind of culture alignment was one, like a big green flag for him where he was like, oh, this is a company that we would know how to be successful with."

Conclusion

The episode underscores the dynamic shifts in the design and retail industries—from

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:07) This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to The Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be speaking with BOH columnist Warren Schulberg about the state of retail. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including the acquisition of a beloved West Coast fabric brand, how Instagram might start labeling your AI-generated content, and what designers should know about a trillion dollars in art that will change hands over the next decade. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's Editor-in-Chief, Caitlin Peterson. Hi, Caitlin. Hi, Dennis. How's it going? Great. Thanks for stepping in. Fred's on vacation. Caitlin is in the chair. How are you doing? Good. It's always fun to hear you say, I'm Dennis Scully. I listen to you every week, but it's fun to hear it live, too. The magic is real. Speaker 1 (0:57) Well, I'm thrilled to have you, and I'm looking forward to our discussions today. I know we both have similar but different trips coming up, yes? Yeah, I've been joking that we're going to air high five as our planes cross between New York and Dallas, but we're headed to Dallas. I'll be there in... two weeks. So I'm there for Tuesday, September 15th, doing the second installment of our Business Accelerator Series at the Dallas Market Center. Well, and tell people a little bit about what that is, because it's a really spectacular program. And it sounds like first time out, you had a great response. And this one sounds like it's going to be even better. We're growing, which is exciting. The idea is it's a four-part series over this year and next year that really unpacks every single stage. Speaker 1 (1:48) of a project in a designer's business. So that first session in April was all about how to attract the right clients. And now we're going to dive into what comes next. So we've got... business coach and BOH columnist Sean Lowe coming for a conversation about building strong client relationships, which, you know, he's going to have some hot takes there. Indeed. Yeah. Attorney Wendy Estella is going to be there to lead a session on contracts and boundaries and communication practices that really lay a strong foundation for a successful project. Speaker 1 (2:19) And then I'm also really excited. I'm going to sit down with two designers, Morgan Farrow from Dallas and Hattie Collins from New Orleans. And they're going to really offer an inside look at how they present their designs, you know, what it takes to guide clients confidently through the entire creative process. I think that's something we don't get a window into very often. You know, everyone talks about their inspiration and their mood boards. And then we, you know, move into the discovery phase. What does that mean? What does that look like? And we're going to really offer. Speaker 1 (2:49) a peek behind the curtain here. Well, it sounds like an amazing program. And I wish that I could be there. How funny that I will be coming to Dallas as well. Just a few days later. And yet not be able to be there for that. I'll be flying to Dallas Wednesday evening. And I've got a full day with my friends at Lalloy and a really fun gathering that they are putting together with some of their... designer clients and some of their big retailers. And I'll be moderating a few panels, including a really fun panel with Amir Lalloy and then Irv Blumpkin, who is the CEO and chairman of the Nebraska Furniture Mart, which I've never actually been to, but it is legendary. Legendary. It is part of the Warren Buffett portfolio at Berkshire Hathaway. And so I'm quite excited about that. And then. Speaker 1 (3:41) Joanna Gaines is also on the panel. So, I mean. Also legendary. Also legendary in her own right. So, I mean, who knows where it could go? And then we take a quick break and then I get to chat with Mara Miller and Jesse Carrier. I mean, so there's a host of their licensees that are coming to town. So it's going to be quite fun. I'm sorry that it will mean that I will be missing what's new, what's next for the first time in my entire life, actually. This will be the first time in my entire life that I will be missing that incredible event. But I'm so glad that you and Fred will be holding down the fort. Let's take a quick look back at Monday's conversation. You had a great talk with David Cohen of iGrace. I thought it was just such an extraordinary story of resilience and innovation. What stuck out to you in this one? Speaker 1 (4:24) I don't want to give away some of the drama, Caitlin. This is a man who came back from quite a challenge early on in his life and went on to work with some of the biggest names in the world of design and architecture. And it's a tremendous story. We ended up... referring to the whole conversation around this gentleman builder notion, because David Cohn, who has built an incredible business in iGrace, is also just the consummate gentleman and such a pleasure to speak with and spend time with. I got to see him speak at the Leaders of Design Conference earlier this year. Speaker 1 (5:09) March. And it was so fun then to learn even more about his story in this show. It was just such a lovely portrait of, you know, a growing business, but also, you know, some great stories about a really particular slice of time in New York and what he learned from it. Yeah, I hope people enjoy it. He's a very special person and I'm thrilled that we got to spend time together. All right, we're going to take a quick break and then we'll get into the news. Speaker 1 (5:43) This podcast is sponsored by Chelsea House. For 10 years, interior designer and retailer Jamie Merida has been creating pieces for Chelsea House with a simple advantage. He knows what designers actually want because he's one of them. This October, Chelsea House celebrates that decade-long collaboration with the Jamie Merida Edit, featuring more than 60 new designs shaped by Jamie's distinctive point of view and his passion for creating interiors with personality, sophistication, and a sense of the unexpected. A gentleman's take on classic design, duly shaken. Discover the Jamie Merida edit this fall in the Chelsea House showroom at 200 North Hamilton in the Hamilton Wren Design District. Speaker 1 (6:30) This podcast is sponsored by Hickory Chair. Since 1911, Hickory Chair's mission has been to combine the authenticity of classic craftsmanship with the efficiency of modern lean manufacturing. Over its remarkable 115-year history, the company's collection has evolved to include timeless, modern, and classic designs inspired by significant periods and places. as well as collaborations with some of the world's most respected designers, including Suzanne Kastler, Ray Booth, David Phoenix, Susan Habel, Kim Skodrow, and Mariette Himes Gomez. Working with interior designers, trade showrooms, and fine high-end boutiques, Hickory Chair's talented craftspeople bring each designer's vision to life, creating bespoke wood furniture and upholstery from the finest materials, Speaker 1 (7:24) for clients around the world. Nearly every detail can be customized from size and wood species to an extensive range of configurable options, COM fabrics, match panel finishes, and even customers' own hardware. The result is furniture that is truly made to order and made for you. Hickory Chair's hallmark is luxurious yet livable furniture made to order and built to last. The company is proud that the vast majority of its furnishings are made by hand in its Hickory, North Carolina workroom. Speaker 1 (8:04) And we're back. First up, Tebow makes an acquisition, Caitlin. Last week, the brand announced its purchase of California-based textile company Pindler, marking its third acquisition in four years. Big news coming out of Tebow. Did you see this one coming? You know, you got the sense that Tebow was on the acquisition trail. Didn't know that it would be Pindler to start, but it certainly sounded as if. They want to acquire some brands. And so the acquisitions continue. I actually got a chance to hop on the phone with Tebow CEO Rick Kilmer yesterday just to kind of see what the story was here, get a little bit of the inside scoop. And it sounds like M&A is really a core strategy for them moving forward. You know, he said that they were looking for companies that are on the market, but also those that aren't. And this is definitely, you know, the story of... Speaker 1 (8:58) finding a brand that wasn't for sale, having a lot of conversations, finding a lot of, you know, finding that you have a lot of things in common, you know, and really like building out an acquisition strategy together. So, you know, he had so many wonderful things to say about Kurt Pinler, the second generation CEO of, you know, this family owned business for 80 years and how Kurt talked a lot during the acquisition process about his team, about his people. And Rick said that, you know, that kind of culture alignment was one, like a big green flag for him where he was like, oh, this is a company that we would know how to be successful with, how to onboard. You know, we're thinking the same way about what we're building. Speaker 1 (9:36) So I thought that was really lovely. Yeah, I agree. And it very much made me think of the recent conversation that I had had with Franco, the CEO of Hayworth, who talked about that very notion that, honestly, the people much more important than the stuff. Yeah. And I think that that is so true. And I think that that sounds like what was most appealing about Pindler. Obviously, they've got. all of these great locations and they've got lots of loyal fans, but it sounds like the team was really what was so desirable here. And hopefully that will make this a relatively seamless acquisition. Speaker 1 (10:16) You never know, but you hope that you're not even going to be able to tell from the outside that the company was acquired. And we'll see. Yeah, I think this is going to be an interesting, you know, it'll be interesting to watch what happens next here. Pindler definitely comes into the Tebow family of brands with a lot of showrooms, like 16 or 18 showrooms. I believe Tebow has about seven. And so there's an interesting, you know, idea of what do you do now? Speaker 1 (10:39) when you have multiple locations, maybe in one building or kind of a lopsided representation there. You know, Pindler also has a really strong presence on the West Coast where Thiebaud's stronghold is very much in the East and the Southeast. And so I think finding synergies, but also really maintaining the integrity of each of these brands is going to be, you know, an interesting thing for those teams to navigate in, you know, the year and years to come. Yeah, I mean, I think it will be interesting to see to that point. where there are real synergies, where some sales reps can start to take multiple lines here and start to take them around. And again, you imagine that that's the big opportunity here, but... Speaker 1 (11:21) Everyone's always worried about their beloved rep. And don't tell me that's changing for me. So we'll have to see how they handle that. But they've made several acquisitions now. And they themselves, Tebow, that is, has been acquired now multiple times, at least during Rick's tenure and even prior to that. So it's one of those. We're hoping you and I were sort of chatting before we came on air. Like we're, we're hoping that people don't even notice. And by the way, did you know that? I mean, I think Tebow's had now five different private equity owners, if memory serves. And could you tell? I don't know. I brought that up with Rick. I said, you know, it seems like you're kind of one of these success stories. Speaker 1 (12:04) maybe one of the few unicorns in this space that is having a really good time with private equity ownership. And he said that people are really quick to remember the partnerships that don't work out, the deals where private equity comes in and then the company kind of doesn't thrive. But he said that he felt like if your business was sort of operationally ready. I think the phrase he used was that like, you know, these funds are able to put gas in the tank. And I think that is sort of what you're seeing here. It's really nice to see how much momentum Thiebaud seems to have behind it to really move forward and make some big changes. Yeah, it'll be interesting to see too. I mean, Thiebaud acquired Coraggio back in 2022 and Rosemary Halgarten in 2024. And my sense is that it's been all good there. And so it'll be interesting to see. Speaker 1 (12:55) sort of price-wise where all of these land and how Pindler fits in relative to Tebow and all of that. But it sounds, as we say, sounds like more acquisitions to come. So at some point, perhaps we'll get Rick on the show. If not with this acquisition, perhaps with the next one. Moving on, we're going to talk about AI watermarks. Last week, producer Caroline Burke wrote about a slew of new policies designed to help identify AI-generated... content. That's right, AI slop. We're coming for you, okay? We're going to tag you and call you out. I mean, that's exactly what's happening here. This article explores the rising implementation of AI watermarks and disclosure labels and what that means for the design industry. But I think a big driver for these changes is coming from new legislation out of the European Union. Speaker 1 (13:47) The EU Artificial Intelligence Act has some new transparency rules that took effect last month. And what's interesting is they require all text, audio, images, and video that look authentic to carry a digital watermark in an AI label. So this idea that if you're using AI to make something that dupes the viewer, that makes you think it's real, you're now required to really clearly state, nope, this is actually generated by AI. The violations on that are steep. Fines are up to 3% of your company's annual revenue, which kind of plays into, I think, why the companies responding to this did so pretty quickly. At the same time, I mean, California has enacted a transparency act around AI as well. That also went into effect. Speaker 1 (14:32) in August. And that's requiring major tech firms. That's going to be the open AIs, Anthropix, Google's, Microsoft, everybody to provide detection tools and really attach disclosures to all AI generated content. I think. tech companies are building out these watermarking capabilities sort of in real time. We're seeing these roll out in real time. What we see now may not be what we have a month from now, a week from now, a month from now. You know, I think this is changing fast. But, you know, meta rolled out labels to notify users when content is heavily edited by AI. And so, you know, it seems worth digging into and really exploring how these measures are going to land for designers. Speaker 1 (15:09) Listen, I think people would welcome. So a lot of this conversation started from the fear of deep fakes and a lot of fake news and fake information and all of that. And also these renderings that were obviously not. not real and trying to pass them off as real work and all of that. So I mean, I think people are more than happy to embrace that, though I don't know too many American businesses that love to have their business dictated by the European Union. But it seems like a lot of