The Thursday Show: Renovation costs are out of control. Plus: Richard Keith Langham on antiques and Alabama

Business of Home Podcast

The episode covers significant shifts in the design industry, ranging from the financial instability of Designers Guild to the rising costs

Key takeaways

• Designers Guild has filed for administration, with Sanderson moving to license its intellectual property.
• The surge in AI funding, particularly toward companies like OpenAI, is diverting capital away from biomaterial startups like mushroom leather.
• Renovation costs in the UK have seen a massive spike, with redecoration prices up 44% since 2019.
• Housing developers are increasingly integrating 'community' as a key amenity to address the loneliness epidemic.
• Designer Richard Keith Langham discusses the resurgence of 'brown furniture' and his professional roots in New York and Alabama.

Main topics

• Designers Guild bankruptcy
• Biomaterial innovation slowdown
• Rising renovation costs

Notable quotes

It's a lesson in how to scale and keep what makes you special.

Conclusion

A deep dive into the economic pressures and social trends currently re

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:07) This is Business of Home. I'm Dennis Scully, and welcome to the Thursday Show. Later on, I'll be catching up with designer Richard Keith Langham. But first, we're going to catch up on the news, including the shocking rise in renovation costs, bankruptcy for Designers Guild, and what happened to mushroom leather. To do all that, I'm joined by Business of Home's executive editor, Fred Nikolaus. Hey, Fred. Hi, Dennis. How's it going? Great. How you doing? Doing good. How'd St. Louis treat you? St. Louis, what a town, Fred. Good times were had. Meet me in St. Louis, Louis. It was hard to resist singing that song. No, I had a really great panel. My thanks again to the Shade Store for inviting me. And they had just opened their showroom there a few months ago. And so it's all very new. And we had a great... panel discussion and some of the local designers, two of whom are literally just down the street from the showroom. So it was a very local crowd, but it was a great conversation. And my thanks to so many people who turned out. It was standing room only at the Shade Store. Speaker 2 (1:15) Did you guys talk about privacy fees or did that not come up? We Speaker 3 (1:19) did. We talked about that issue quite a bit. And it was interesting to see how different people handle the discussion around photography and what's going to be shared. Speaker 2 (1:30) What isn't? It's Speaker 3 (1:31) a Speaker 2 (1:31) hot issue. Last week, we talked about whether designers should charge a fee if they're not able to take pictures. Got a conversation going on Instagram, and there's not one point of view on this. This is a divided and dividing issue. So we're going to have to be talking about it more, but it's an interesting one. I certainly enjoyed the online chit chat. I agree. Well, let's look back on Monday's episode, a conversation with Will Meyer and Gray Davis of the team Meyer Davis. Great guys, very talented. Great guys, very talented. Definitely on the list Speaker 3 (1:59) of, oh, if I could afford to hire a designer, boy, would I hire them in a heartbeat. There aren't too many firms, Fred, that I can say I met them at the very beginning of their career, but I literally called on them in 1999. And so... I was there at the beginning when they were a three-person firm, and now they have a firm that I believe covers all Speaker 2 (2:25) time zones. It's, Meyer Davis doesn't sleep now. So it's incredible to see all that they have become. I'm trying to imagine you guys all dressed in like Y2K fashion, like Oakley shades, shiny pants. What a scene it would have been. Yeah, that was what jumped out to me too, is the fact they have this like. global 24-hour design business. There's always someone from Meyer Davis who's awake and working on a project. I knew that they were successful and they knew they had a big firm, but I don't think I realized the scale. It's pretty incredible to start off with just a team of two and build up that big of a business. It's a lesson in how to scale and keep what makes you special. Their projects feel special. So it was a great conversation with two people who have really pulled off the scale game in a big way. Speaker 3 (3:08) Absolutely. And also an incredible partnership story. to have worked together all these years and to still have so many laughs and just clearly enjoy one another at the level that they do. You were trying Speaker 2 (3:25) to poke at the seams there, though, Dennis. I know you were trying to say, don't you guys ever kind of fight? You want to do that on the show right now for the listeners? They get along very well, clearly. Speaker 3 (3:34) Yeah, yeah. No, no, no. There's an incredible chemistry. And I know that so many people who have... come in and out of their doors, talk about that. And it's to be commended and not easy to pull off. So congratulations to them on all of the good things that have happened. It's really fun to have watched them over the years grow this incredible firm. Okay, we're going to get into the news in just a moment. But first, a quick break. Speaker 3 (4:06) This podcast is sponsored by June Lalloy. The Total Home Brand just launched their second collection with famed designer Heidi Kellyer. Capturing Heidi's signature design style, this new collection is where high-quality design meets accessible price points. From artisan-crafted rugs to patterned throw pillows, there's a style in this collection for every budget and project need, making it much easier to bring the Heidi look and feel to your own designs. To quote Heidi herself, I'm really proud of this collection. These designs are very usable with a lot of different aesthetics, colors, and patterns. But they're also just unique on their own. Sign up for the trade program and shop the collection exclusively at juneleloy.com. That's J-O-O-N-L-O-L-O-I dot com. This podcast is sponsored by the National Kitchen and Bath Association. As you make your plans for High Point Market, don't miss the NKBA's immersive show house in historic Broad Hall. This is not your typical showroom. Expect the unexpected. With a reimagined show house experience bringing together the best in kitchen, bath, and whole home. Get up close with the latest design trends, make new industry connections, and soak up a slate of expert programming. It all happens inside NKBA's Broad Hall, October 17th through the 21st. Learn more at nkba.org. Speaker 2 (5:43) And we're back. First up, Fred, we've got to talk about Designers Guild. Let's talk about Designers Guild. So last week, the British home brand filed for administration. That's the British version of bankruptcy. Almost immediately after, Sanderson swooped in and announced a deal to license its intellectual property. Busy week for Designers Guild. Chaotic week for Designers Guild. It's funny. We actually talked about this, you know, on last week's Thursday show. And everything we were saying was, we don't quite know what's going to happen. We're being very careful. And then like an hour after the show aired, you know, they took the final step and did indeed file. I don't know. What'd you make of all this, Dennis? Speaker 3 (6:14) Yeah, it's interesting. Several of my British friends reached out to me after our last show and said, oh, you know, you didn't talk about Trisha Guild enough and how she received an OBE back in 2000. 2008 and just what a big figure she has been in the British design world for a long time. And so I do want to I do want to call that out now, Fred, that this retroactively. Yeah. Why this story is so so meaningful to so many. And we should get into exactly everything that happened just to just to recap and remind people. Speaker 2 (6:48) Yes, absolutely. I mean, it's a venerable British company. And, you know, Tricia Gild, I was reading a little bit about her. She's written 20 books or something like that. It's an incredible accomplishment, a very beloved British brand. And, you know, one that has a big name over here. When this news started to break, I saw a lot of designers saying, like, oh, that's one of my favorite companies. I can't believe this. And so this is a name. In terms of what happened, I mean, I think we speculated a little irresponsibly last week that maybe Brexit played a role. But, you know, the company came out with an announcement basically confirming that, saying that it had made business conditions much more difficult for them. They'd had this sort of complicated deal with a retailer where they sold their IP to a retailer and licensed it back, which I hope would raise some cash. It didn't quite work out in the end. And so they had to shutter their, you know, their store in London. And a lot of their partners like Ralph Lauren home stopped selling new product that, you know, designers guild was making, you know, because they were just in such a tight financial spot that they clearly couldn't deliver on, on the product. In terms of what happened with Sanderson, it's really interesting because I think just as everyone was getting used to the. sort of sad news that designers guild was no more you see uh another beloved british textile brand swooping in kind of at the last minute with this this deal that they've announced to license the ip for for 10 years and they're going to relaunch at least some designers guild product the the wallpaper the fabrics and some of the paint um what'd you make of the whole sanderson angle to this story dennis Speaker 3 (8:06) well i love sanderson riding in at the 11th hour and and i think it's it puts the brands in great hands. And I'm hoping that we'll learn more about all that this means going forward. But it's definitely a good home for the intellectual property. And we'll see what happens production wise. Speaker 2 (8:25) Yeah, exactly. So Sanderson, of course, I think most people know, but they're, you know, a family of brands that include Zoffany and Morris & Co. And I think for them, you know, because the deal happened so quickly, Dennis, we were speculating maybe they had been in talks to potentially acquire this before they filed for administration for bankruptcy. maybe the deal just didn't work out or maybe they had to go through bankruptcy to shed the debt in order for this deal to work out. Whatever the circumstances are. You know, clearly, Designers Guild is a beloved selection of fabrics, wallpapers and paints. And so it's great that someone is going to come in and, you know, relaunch them as quickly as possible. I don't know what the interruptions will look like if you're a customer of Designers Guild. You know, I know Sanderson obviously is incentivized to avoid any disruption in service. So I'm sure they're going to be rushing to produce the best sellers as quickly as possible. I'm sure there will be a little bit of a lag time because it takes time to work all these things out. In terms of Ralph Lauren Home and, you know, Designers Guild also has a partnership with John Darien and Christian Lacroix-Maison. They did not. sign on to this Anderson deal yet. They may come to, we'll see. So those companies are probably working out their own arrangements right now. I know Ralph Lauren Home is working out something to deal with this interruption. So a little bit of a state of flux, but... This is a sad story, but it certainly is not as sad as it could have been. I mean, we're very sad, of course, that 93 people lost their jobs in the UK, but it's good that someone will carry on and produce the product that so many designers love. So this is sort of a mixed thing, but I'm glad that Sanderson was there to at least save the IP. Yeah, Speaker 3 (9:48) absolutely. As you say, a legacy brand and great to see that that will continue. I think I'm seeing the Sanderson folks at high point in a few weeks, so they can fill me in on what happens next. But it's always a challenge. making that smooth transition. I'm sure that we will be hearing more about this in the weeks ahead. In the meantime, let's move on and talk about alternative materials. This week for Business of Home, managing editor Haley Schunard went looking for signs of progress on mushroom leather and cactus upholstery and some of the favorite things that we used to talk about, Fred. And it doesn't sound like there is a lot of progress. Let's get into it. How's your shrimp leather Speaker 2 (10:27) ottoman holding Speaker 3 (10:28) up? How's your crustacean curtain? Don't leave it out in the sun is my advice for people. Speaker 2 (10:34) No, I don't know. We're being a little bit silly here. But, you know, Haley very cleverly alluded to this period in her piece. It's a great story, by the way. Definitely check it out on businessofhome.com right now. I think there was a period where we here at BOH and I'm sure other editors in the design world were getting pitches almost weekly of a new startup that was making fabric out of algae or metal out of elk antlers or all crazy interesting reuses of biomaterials, reusing scrap fabrics and things like that. It seemed to be there was so much material innovation that was going on. And as Haley talked about in her story, it seems like it's really slowed down over the past couple of years. Some of the companies that seem so prominent promising a few years ago have either gone out of business or are going through some sort of reorganization or some challenge. And so she sort of went looking for the explanation as to, you know, why is it that all these once promising biomaterials, this once promising field seems to have slowed down a little bit. And it's an important issue. I mean, we're being a little bit jokey here, but there is so much waste produced by big industrial processes, even when companies are trying to be sustainable and ethical. And if you can do it out of mushroom, if you can do it out of algae, if you can do it out of recycled fabric in particular, that's all to the good. It's just very hard. And as Haley is pointing out, we seem to be going through a little bit of a slow period here. Speaker 3 (11:47) Yeah, it is hard. And there was a lot of enthusiasm, although I think in America, the enthusiasm level is never quite as high as it is over in Europe. I think that the countries over in Europe, perhaps because of their size and scale and just how much more seriously they seem to take these sustainability. matters than we do here in the States. There was always a show overseas that was showing you those exciting seaweed sneakers that you were going to be wearing soon that sadly don't sound like they will be coming to America because I was looking forward to those. But Americans have just never latched on to, in part because I'm not sure we ever sold it properly in the US. You and I were joking before we came on air, had we connected it with longevity in the way that we're talking about today? Had we told people that that all these healthy materials could be related to living longer and being healthier. Maybe it would have had a better shot at gaining more popularity. What do you think? Speaker 2 (12:47) Yeah, if those seaweed sneakers help you live six months longer, I'm sure we'd be knee deep in them. Yeah, I don't know. It's tricky. We have a complicated relationship with sustainability over here in the US. We don't need sustainability anyway, Dennis, because we have AI, which is going to solve all our problems. And that gets to one of the interesting little points of Haley's piece, which is that AI actually does play a role in all of this, which is that so much of the reason I think why these, you know, biomaterials and alternative materials startups were getting funded was because there was a lot of venture money sloshing around in the, you know, in the 2010s. And a lot of it was going to these startups. And now all of that money is just going towards AI. Like so much of the, you know, global free capital is going straight to companies like philanthropic open A and all the companies that are downstream of them. And that is really sucking up a lot of the money that would go into other areas. And so these companies that once had so much money coming in are suddenly having to beg for spare change. And it's a little bit of a sad story, at least from their perspective. I don't know. I'm sure as someone who follows the capital markets, I'm sure you see that pop up in other areas as well, Dennis. Speaker 3 (13:48) It's as if the entire market has become about AI and precious little else. If you look at the performance charts of really any industry, And please don't look at the performance charts of home building stocks or anything home related, because that is that is particularly challenging at the moment. But it's it's all about tech and really nothing else is doing particularly well unless it's related to AI in some way. And so and the same thing is true with what's happening in the bond market, as we alluded to in our recent conversations about rates rising. Part of the reason that rates have been going higher is just that there is this huge competition. for a place to put all of that money. And it is in the bonds of all these companies that are building data centers and that are building out AI and the infrastructure that it will require. So yes, to your point, suddenly the, oh, but wait, what about healthy upholstery and cactus leather and all of that? Suddenly that just doesn't. doesn't have any traction, sadly. Speaker 2 (14:42) Yeah. Another thing Haley uncovered is that the government used to fund this research a lot more under the Trump administration. There's been a pullback in funding in general. Certainly not all of it was going towards cactus leather, but the funding picture is more difficult for these startups. It's also just simply very hard to do this. I think that this has more traction in fashion because the amount of leather, like mushroom leather, you need to make one wallet is