222: The Profit Maverick: An Architectural Odyssey with Edouard François of Edouard François La Maison

Business of Architecture UK Podcast

Architect Edouard François details his three-phase career evolution, moving from large-scale technical training to theoretical branding and

Key takeaways

• Edouard's career progressed from learning technical crafts in large projects to developing a theoretical language, then executing high-value built works.
• He advises architects to avoid discussing pure architecture with clients, focusing instead on economic utility, cost, and practical outcomes like parking.

Main topics

• Architectural career phases
• Client relationship management

Notable quotes

Architecture is really a super business.

Conclusion

The episode offers a unique perspective on how architects can leverage

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) I think architecture is really a super business. We have possibilities to do things that are unimaginable. Speaker 1 (0:10) Bonjour. Today I have the honor of conversing with Edouard François, the distinguished successor of Edouard François Lamazon. Edouard. embodies the roles of a designer, architect and urban planner having refined his craft at institutions such as l'Ecole Nationale des Beaux Arts and l'Ecole Nationale des Ponts et Chassis. Moreover, he has bestowed his knowledge upon the students and the esteemed national landscape and schools of Versailles and Grasse in recognition of his professionalism. Speaker 1 (1:00) So Edward is celebrated for his dynamic and spirited approach to life and work. He is profoundly influenced by authenticity. permeating through aspects of gastronomy, interpersonal relationships, and of course, his architectural endeavors. Through his illustrious career, Edouard has graced the lecterns of globally recognized institutions such as the AA in London, the ESA in Paris. the Design Academy of Eindhoven, where he has been sharing his wisdom and insights. The global community continues to laud the uniqueness and exemplary quality of his work. His creations have found permanent home in prestigious establishments such as the Centre Pompidou, the Canadian Centre for Architecture, the New York Guggenheim, and the V &A in London, cementing his legacy as a luminary in the architectural domain. So this was an absolutely... fantastic conversation. Edouard was truly inspiring and we go into a lot of depth, really the kind of three phases of his career where first of all he started off as a very young architect working on big scale projects, not the kind of work that perhaps you'd know him for now but that's where he really kind of you know cut his teeth as it were, he learned his craft, he knew how to put buildings together, he knew how to work with complex demanding clients and There was a whole world of just kind of really learning the craft of architecture and leading large-scale projects from an early age. Then we move on to talking about the second phase, which was a lot more risky in its approach, but kind of intellectually and more where Edouard's heart was, which is where he started to explore much deeper kind of conceptual and theoretical ideas that perhaps meant that The money-making side of architecture was postponed for a bit in order for him to develop this kind of language and ideas of where he wanted to go. That was quite a long phase in his career, but he was incredibly masterful with being able to take ideas and market them and publicize them. And his own kind of personal brand and personality and his ability to communicate really demonstrated how he was kind of creating a... a seductive world, if you like, where people wanted to know who he was. He was gaining a reputation in France and becoming a very prominent personality as a thought leader and as a creative force. And the third phase was actually then starting to take these concepts and start making real money from them and actually turning them into real built projects. We talk a lot about, you know, his approach to charging a lot of money and the very direct conversations he will have with clients, how he's not afraid to say no, how he doesn't do dog and pony shows of showing clients loads and loads of portfolios and work, but rather is actually very unique in his communication style and the way that he'll engage and tease information out of a client. And I think one of the other things that you better take away from this conversation is a lot of kind of insights and secrets to actually developing and creating a powerful personal brand. So this is a fantastic interview, a real privilege for me to speak with one of the world's great if you like and and just lovely to sit down and speak with um eduard in his parisian studio so sit back enjoy edward francois special announcement to all you business of architecture uk listeners once again thank you so much for your continued support and listening over the last six years since we started in 2018 As I said last time in the last episode, we are merging with our sister channel, Business of Architecture. So please make sure that you go and follow and subscribe on YouTube, on Apple iTunes, on Spotify, wherever it is that you're listening to this podcast. Make sure that you go and listen to the Business of Architecture one there. As Business of Architecture UK, we will be merging our podcasts into that format. We're not disappearing. We're not going anywhere. We are just merging the two channels together, which means that this episode is the final episode for Business of Architecture UK. Oh, it's been a wild journey. It's been fantastic fun. But we look forward to continue bringing you all of the best news, information, profit making tips, strategies and ideas from the world's leading architectural practices and from our own smart practice consulting practice methods. I look forward to seeing you and hearing you over on the Business of Architecture main channel where the two are now merging. Don't forget, go over there and subscribe. And once again, thank you so much. This episode is sponsored by Smart Practice, Business of Architecture's flagship program to help you structure your firm for freedom, fulfillment, and financial profit. If you want access for our free training on how to do this, please visit smartpracticemethod.com. Or if you want to speak directly to one of our advisors about how he might be able to help you, please follow the link in the information. Edouard, welcome to the business of architecture. How are you? Fine and you? I'm very good, thank you. An absolute honour to have you on the show. You are the principal of Maison Edouard Poinsoir. You've got an incredible portfolio of work. There's some really extraordinary projects internationally in France, in Paris, housing, civic projects, cultural projects, a real diverse portfolio. One of the kind of leading practices in France at the moment. I know that you guys were voted in the top 100 architecture practices in Domus. a few years back. You're an international fellow of the ROBA, of course, you've lectured internationally, you've lectured here in the UK, as well as in France and other places. And you've really built, you know, quite an extraordinary international reputation as a practice. So Absolutely amazing to have you here and to be discussing a little bit about this. So I guess my first question is, how did the practice start? Speaker 2 (7:39) It's Speaker 1 (7:39) a Speaker 2 (7:39) curiosity, I think, because in France, there's a guy who is saying, if you don't have the reference, you won't have the job. And if you don't have the job, you don't have a reference. So it's a circle. Speaker 1 (7:52) At Speaker 2 (7:53) a certain moment, you have to cut it. Speaker 2 (7:56) So I think I did very little things. I did little things for my mother's room. After that, I did two rooms. After that, I did a kitchen. It was very, very, very, very slow. And at a certain moment, I had clients, and it was extremely complex to work. to do things because the client, he knows the money, et cetera. And so at a certain moment, I decided to be totally autist. So I said, I just focus on what I want, the client, I don't care. And if I go away, boom, it's okay for me. And so that's how I begin. Speaker 1 (8:47) So a lot of architects struggle to be able to do that. without upsetting the clients or losing work? How do you create that relationship with the client so that they trust you to do what you say is the right thing, if you like? Speaker 2 (9:08) I think what I'm telling to my students is the problematic that are very interesting in architecture, you keep that for you. It's not the problematic for the client. For the client, you speak only the money, how it's built, how economic it is, how well it's working, how the parking is, the super parking, etc. But you don't speak about your facade. And when I did the facade of the Phuket, I was explaining to the client our administrative authorization. Speaker 1 (9:43) And Speaker 2 (9:43) so I said, look, the parking is super here. You have the basement. And my assistant says, Edouard, you don't speak about the facade. So you Speaker 1 (9:54) never Speaker 2 (9:57) have to speak about the facade. The facade is there so he can see the facade. Speaker 2 (10:03) But Speaker 1 (10:04) that's so interesting. It reminds me of the kind of Mies van der Rohe quote where he said, no, never talk to your client about architecture. Ask them how his dog is. Exactly. Speaker 2 (10:15) And they don't like factory when you speak architecture because factory, it's a drama because we are doing new things that doesn't exist. So is it working? Is it possible to sell it? How will it cost? Because when you are dealing with new material, new materiality, new assemblage, combinaison, it's not so intuitive how much it will cost. If you're dealing with totally common things, it's obvious for everybody, it costs this amount, that is the amount, the banal amount. Speaker 1 (10:54) So Speaker 2 (10:54) don't speak architecture. And Speaker 1 (10:57) how about winning work? So you went from doing kind of little pieces of kitchen and like residential. Like now the kind of work that you're doing is, you know, it's the envy of many practices to have that kind of international. We have very, Speaker 2 (11:17) very big operations. We are doing a big project, for example, in Bordeaux that is 80,000 m2 and it's a factory, it's a piece of urbanis, but in another hand, we are the only architect of that, so it's a piece of architecture also. And we are in an area that is a UNESCO area, so we're alone and it's very big. Speaker 1 (11:43) Amazing. And so that kind of moving from, you know, when did you start the practice? Speaker 2 (11:50) When I was 24, very young. Wow. Very young. Curiously, I was in an engineer school, and my teacher says to me, yes, we have a problem with the developer. Can you help me? So I was looking through the thing, and I said, we could do that and that and that and that and that. So he said that to the developer, and the developer says, can you send me to guide your student? It was a piece of a huge development that was 1002,000 m2. Speaker 1 (12:35) Right. Wow. So Speaker 2 (12:36) pretty Speaker 1 (12:37) big stuff. Speaker 2 (12:38) And I wasn't architect at this moment. Speaker 1 (12:41) And Speaker 2 (12:41) so the guy, this developer, they are really playing with the money. He said, Edouard is the student of the guy who is controlling the area. I take the student, that's okay. And he said to me, you're my architect. Speaker 2 (13:02) And I wasn't an architect, I think I was 24 years old. And so he trained me. After that... You're super body. Speaker 1 (13:14) You'd won your experience. You'd built the muscle. Speaker 2 (13:17) Brilliant. Speaker 1 (13:18) And so that's very young to kind of go out on your own. Did you at any point work for somebody else or work in another practice? Little Speaker 2 (13:28) things, but, you know, in the end, I was 24. And when I was doing my practice, I didn't want a teacher to. to take my