Mike Hollis: The Case Against Long-Term Goals, Frequent Pivots, and Being a Yes-Man | E14

Business MVP

Former NFL kicker Mike Hollis shares his journey from an undersized athlete to a multi-industry entrepreneur. He discusses the importance of

Key takeaways

• Mike Hollis achieved NFL success by focusing on short-term, daily goals rather than overwhelming long-term objectives.
• The guest emphasizes 'trusting the process' as a core principle for both athletic performance and business management.

Main topics

• NFL career and overcoming physical limitations
• Daily goal setting vs. long-term planning

Notable quotes

If you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of every day and tell yourself that you did the best you could... then you've not failed.

Conclusion

The episode serves as an inspiring guide for entrepreneurs to embrace

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Football and kicking was so incredibly passionate for me because of the level of success I had with it, plus the fact that I wasn't a great athlete or big or strong or freakishly athletic. You're Speaker 2 (0:09) athletic. Speaker 1 (0:10) Well... Speaker 2 (0:11) At 5'8 and 180 pounds, nobody thought my next guest could play in the NFL. His own head coach didn't think someone his size belonged on the roster. Speaker 1 (0:19) Even as a kid growing up in high school, I was always the little shrimp on the team. Speaker 2 (0:24) Mike Hollis went from community college to Division I AA school to signing as an undrafted free agent with the expansion Jacksonville Jaguars in their very first season. I Speaker 1 (0:33) just didn't take no for an answer because I knew what I could do to a football. I could kick it pretty well. The biggest problem I had was the fact that I wasn't really prepared. to know what I wanted to do after my football career. After Speaker 2 (0:43) nine years in the NFL, he built ProForm Kicking Academy into a nationwide coaching business, became a managing partner in a meal prep software company, and founded Zealous Wellness, a health and wellness platform. In 2022, nearly 20 years after retiring, you signed with the Jacksonville Sharks at age 49. What made you do that, and what did it teach you about the competitive drive that never goes away? Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:08) Mike Hollis, welcome to Business MVP. Speaker 1 (1:11) Well, thank you. So Speaker 2 (1:12) Mike, at every level, high school, college, the pros, someone told you that you were too small. Tom Coughlin couldn't believe a guy your size could kick the ball that far. What was it like having to prove yourself over and over again? Speaker 1 (1:26) I just became part of the nature. I mean, even as a kid growing up in high school and so forth, I was always the little shrimp, you know, on the teams. I got made fun of a little bit, but I was a team player, so I went along with it and made fun of the big guys too in any way I could just to kind of play around and be on their level. But it was very challenging because of the fact is I knew what I could do to a football. I could kick it pretty well. And as a kicker, the size really doesn't matter with regards to like I don't have, I'm like a receiver. I have to be tall and catch a ball or anything like that. I'm kicking a football. I'm using my feet. That's the thing with me. I just didn't take no for an answer because I knew what my abilities were. And it fueled the fire. It made me try harder to prove people wrong. Honestly, that was really my goal is to really be as good as I could be. But in the second half of that would be to prove people wrong that I was good enough to play. Speaker 2 (2:24) You had a 59-yard field goal, I think, preseason. that was, you've called probably the most important kick of your life. Your roster spot was on the line. Walk me through that moment. Speaker 1 (2:35) Well, that, yeah, that was a pivotal moment for me because of the fact that I had missed a couple field goals prior to that and even one in that specific game. And we, it was a, it was a, we had a, what it would have been a 50, a 54-yard field goal. But we had to delay a game. So I was thinking, well, crap. Speaker 2 (2:54) So Speaker 1 (2:54) they gave you an extra five. I'm out there about to kick a field goal. We get a delay a game. And I'm thinking I might walk off and Brian Barker might punt. But we were at the end of the half. So I thought, well, okay, I think I'm going to stay on. And so now it's like, okay, this is a make or break moment for me. And I happened to hit it really clean and made it. And so from that point on, it just boosted a lot of confidence in me. And I proved, you know, the coaches I could do, you know, something as cool as that back then. Now they're kicking 60-yarders like no problem. So, you know, it was a cool experience. It was something that really opened my eyes and, you know, to my full potential. And I believe the coaches trusted me even more after that. Speaker 2 (3:32) Yeah, that's awesome. So you went from community college to the University of Idaho to learning from Pro Bowl kicker John Carney during a preseason with the Chargers. So what did each stop building you that the previous one didn't? Speaker 1 (3:45) Well, you know, when I went to junior college, because I didn't have any opportunity for any university, they all wanted me, you know, the ones that I at least talked to, said, well, we got a kicker. We're okay. We don't have scholarship money. You can walk on and, you know, be benched for the couple of years. And of course, I want to play. I don't want to sit on the bench for a couple of years. So that was a challenge. Then after junior college, I was right back in the same boat as coming out of high school. No colleges were still interested in me, even though I was pretty good in junior college level. And then finally, John L. Smith from University of Idaho. stepped up and offer me an opportunity to earn a scholarship if I beat out the guy that they thought was going to be their guy. Speaker 2 (4:19) And Speaker 1 (4:19) so I took that opportunity to do that. So it was really challenging. And again, I want to prove people wrong. Idaho was a Division I AA, so it wasn't like the pinnacle of college football, clearly. But it gave me an opportunity to slowly get into it as far as starting a junior college and one AA FCS, essentially. And then the NFL, that was a huge jump. And I learned a lot from John Carney. He was such a great guy. Very, very good professional, we'll say. Showed me the ropes. I'm a very friendly person. I don't have any enemies. So I just had an opportunity to learn from a legend in John Carney and some of Speaker 2 (5:03) the Speaker 1 (5:03) other guys. David Ben was a snapper for the first... First time ever, I think, the NFL had hired just a snapper. And then also Darren Bennett, who was an Australian rules football player for many years, for 13 years before he came over to the United States to play for the Chargers as a rookie at the age of 30. So I learned a lot of things from Darren as well. And it was just a super, super cool experience. I knew I was going to get cut. I knew it was a camp leg. But hey, I'm just fresh out of college at one AA school. It was an honor. It really was. I Speaker 2 (5:31) mean, but you're also painting this picture of something that, you know, if you want something bad enough. And you're willing to, you know, put everything in and prove everybody wrong. Like, you know, you might actually succeed. So it's pretty cool. So on the opposite side of that, though, what was your biggest failure as an athlete? And how did that shape how you handle failure in business? Speaker 1 (5:50) Whoa. My biggest failure as an athlete? I have to think about that one, honestly. I maybe missed a game-winning kick. I mean, that's a failure, but it's an important failure. But you learn from them and you move on. But I honestly can't pick out one specific area of my life where I felt like it was a huge failure. I look at goals a different way than most people. I'm not a huge long-term goal setter. Maybe in the back of my mind, I have an idea of where I want to be. I don't get too specific with long-term goals. Matter of fact, I don't even really focus on long-term goals. I focus on daily goals because if you do the daily goals right, each and every day, you know, and I always tell my kids this in my academy. It's like, listen, if you can look yourself in the mirror at the end of every day and tell yourself that you did the best you could under any circumstances you were given that day. then you've not failed. You've done just exactly what you want to do. Now, if you lie to yourself and say, oh, I did good, and in the back of your mind think, well, maybe I didn't do as good as I could have. And maybe you can say, well, I didn't reach my goal that day. But I was a very sectional sort of goal setter. I just wanted just certain pieces and parts of my life to be, you know, minimized as far as long-term. I wanted to stay short-term, take it day by day, kick by kick, we'll say. Tom Coughlin was kind of the same way. When I fast forward to the Jaguars, he was very, you know, game by game, quarter by quarter. He broke our season down into four quarters, that kind of thing. So you take them baby steps. You just take them by pieces. And then in the ultimate long-term goal, that happens to pop up one day like, yeah, I made it in the NFL. Well, remember all those short daily goals that I made? Well, the accumulation of all those that I succeeded in got me here. Speaker 2 (7:34) Yeah. I mean, that's good business advice too. So I love that. When your career ended after your third back surgery, you moved back to Jacksonville thinking your name as the Jaguars kicker for seven years would open doors. And you've been pretty honest and open about this, that it didn't. So what happened? Well, Speaker 1 (7:50) you know, I just, I saw other teammates of mine, you know, coming back from, from retiring and, you know, moving to Jacksonville. I saw things, you know, people get on TV and they get, you know, the reporters and they kind of do, you know, some things that they're kind of, you know, and again, my, my, the biggest problem I had was the fact that I wasn't really prepared to know what I wanted to do after, after my football career. That that's what, it's a big thing that a lot of guys, you know, still, still, still struggle with. Yeah. But NFL teams are doing a better job of that. But I just figured that, you know, at least knowing a lot of people here, I love the area. I love the city. I love the community. I love the weather. Um, even though it is, you know, 3000 miles away from my hometown of Spokane, Washington, uh, it's still, you know, my parents all the time. I talk with my mom always says this to me. She's like, I wish you guys lived a little closer. I'm like, I know mom. Um, but you know, it, it was just an opportunity. I thought that, uh, would be good for me, you know, in the, in the post retirement, you know, and, and again, going back to my point, I didn't Speaker 2 (8:46) know Speaker 1 (8:46) what I wanted to do. So I was like, well, I think my, there might be some opportunities there now. Because I didn't know what I wanted to do, I didn't really seek a lot of opportunities. It took me a long time to find a new passion, we'll say. But football and kicking was so incredibly passionate for me because of the level of success I had with it, plus the fact that I wasn't a great athlete or big or strong or freakishly athletic, right? So, you know, I did things that... Well, I was athletic in the kicking motion. When it comes to... I'm very clumsy, to be honest with you. I'm not incredibly athletic. But in the long term, really, it just, it was a matter of me trying to figure out what a new passion might be. And, you know, part of my, you know, football career was, you know, obviously kicking was one of them. So I started my kicking academy a few years after, because I didn't know if I really wanted to do that. So I got involved with some, I had a couple of friends that were, you know, getting involved in investing and hedge funds, which I was a little leery about. I'm like, I don't really know much about investing. I started to study for the series seven test and I'm like, man, this isn't for me. I'm just, I'm not very good mathematically, you know, and whatever, but I just didn't really, it didn't, it didn't, I want to find, and I'm a huge advocate of, of enjoying life, whether I'm working or not. I don't want to be stuck in a cubicle in an office the rest of my life. And I just, I just, that image and I I've done it a little bit, even after I retired, I got, you know, A friend of mine was the head coach of my son's flag football team. He owned a big business. And I was looking like, well, this financial thing isn't working out. Let me see what I can do here. And even I actually started my kicking academy at that point, but I wasn't doing great at the beginning of it. And so I tried this thing. And then I got into an eBay drop-off store thing and trying to succeed on my own without just thrown in the fire, basically. I didn't know anything about business. I had a friend of mine that kind of partnered with me to help me out a little bit with the business side of it. I just learned on the go and I've always kind of been that way. But my ultimate goal was to just find a passion that wasn't work. It was something I enjoyed doing. I enjoy helping others in any way I possibly can. And so I want to use the things, the skills that I have personally that will help others because they've helped me. So kicking clearly was something I wanted to do, coaching. And then health and wellness. That was a huge deal for me. That was part of my life as a kicker too, even though. I didn't do the greatest at it at certain times, but I learned. And the older I got, and I'm trying to maintain my lifestyle as far as the way I feel, the way I look, and the way I, you know, just on an everyday basis. And I don't feel, I'm literally 54 years old now. I don't feel 54. I feel like I'm still in my 20s. Great. And sometimes I act like I'm still in my Speaker 2 (11:21) 20s. Speaker 1 (11:22) We need all the secrets. Yeah. We Speaker 2 (11:22) need all the secrets. Yeah. I love that. That's a lesson most athletes won't talk about openly that your, you know, your reputation on the field doesn't automatically transfer to the business world. So what did that teach you about what actually matters in business? Well, Speaker 1 (11:37) persistence and, you know, that matters in business, discipline, being repetitious, trusting the process. You know, once you, you know, as far as the kicking is concerned, I have a process that I learned from a, from a coach, Jim Gattano is the guy's name, but. He was my kicking coach and still is helping me with pro form kicking. So he's here in Jacksonville. I moved him out of here, out of Spokane, well, actually out of California to move to Jacksonville about 17 years ago. And so he's been here for a while coaching with me. But that was just kind of, you know, the mindset of learning about what it is I wanted to do afterwards and kind