ICYMI: Michael Was on Ghosted! by Roz Hernandez

Brief Recess: A Legal Podcast with Michael Foote & Mélissa Malebranche

Host Roz Hernandez welcomes lawyer Michael Foote to discuss the intersection of paranormal phenomena and legal precedents. The episode moves

Key takeaways

• Michael Foote recounts a terrifying experience in the Montauk Motel where he was physically shifted across a bed by an unseen force.
• Author Gerald Brittle sued Warner Brothers for $900 million, alleging the Conjuring franchise violated non-compete clauses related to his book.

Main topics

• Paranormal personal encounters
• Intellectual property lawsuits

Notable quotes

Your decision about whether something's a ghost is probably closer to justice than what I'm dealing with.

Conclusion

The episode provides a entertaining look at how the legal system grapp

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:01) This is exactly right. Speaker 2 (0:20) Coming this way Speaker 2 (0:34) It's me, Roz, and welcome to Ghosted by Roz Hernandez, the podcast where I talk to people that I like about the paranormal. Oh, my God. We have, I think, our first ever practicing lawyer on the show today. It's Michael Foote. He is the host of the new podcast on Exactly Right called Brief Recess, a legal podcast, which he hosts with Melissa Malbranch. I'm obsessed with him. Many people know him from his social media, always giving great legal advice. And, you know, there are cases of the paranormal in court. And so we got to talk about some of those with him today. So fun. He also has a great kind of ghost story situation. I'm filing this one under the category of expert. It's not like your typical episode. We didn't even get to the haunted eBay doll or the EVPs this week, and we ran out of time. But don't worry. We'll be back. Business as usual next week. All right, let's just get to it. Court is in session. Here's my conversation with Michael Foote and with the show. Speaker 2 (2:07) Oh my God. Court is in session. I actually, I have this always, actually. Wait, oh good. I would be such Speaker 1 (2:15) a good judge. You don't even understand. You are a good judge. Thank you. And you're already on the stand, so thank you for having me. Speaker 2 (2:22) I'm kind of like the ghost judge, so I have this. Sometimes people are like, I don't know if it's a ghost story. And Speaker 1 (2:27) then you adjudicate? Speaker 2 (2:29) Yes. Okay. Turns out, in my opinion, Speaker 1 (2:32) it's always a ghost. And it probably usually is. And honestly, you're probably more accurate than the American judiciary. Your decision about whether something's a ghost is probably closer to justice than what I'm dealing with. Speaker 1 (2:49) How is your life? What are you dealing with? Right now, it's kind of a hot mess. It's kind of, if you were in the green room and you saw the inside of my bag, it's kind of like that. It's like candy wrappers, couple pill bottles, Speaker 2 (3:03) a Speaker 1 (3:04) half empty water bottle. That's kind of my life right now. It's chaotic. I mean, I'm an immigration lawyer in America in 2026. You can only imagine what's happening. So that's kind of my life. And we don't have to get, I mean, deep into it. But my personal life is great. Good. Yeah. My husband's a bad bitch. Love him. Good. Yeah, he's an icon in his own right. He texted me this morning that the dog, because I'm in L.A. now and we live in New York. And basically. But you're Speaker 2 (3:35) just visiting. I'm just visiting. Speaker 1 (3:37) Yeah. Basically, last night, it sounds based off a few chaotic text messages. That the dog just kind of like helicoptered his dick while pissing all over the apartment. That's actually very impressive Speaker 2 (3:49) for a dog to be able to do. Yeah, he's 13. I was like, wow, the hip mobility. Speaker 1 (3:54) You should be very proud. He hit the ceiling. Like, yeah, I'm like, how'd you actually manage to hit the ceiling? That is Speaker 2 (3:59) a Speaker 1 (3:59) stream on that guy. That's great. Who among us hasn't? I can't say I have. That's impressive. What's your Speaker 2 (4:09) dog's name? Jack. Jack. Yeah. He's really Speaker 1 (4:13) bad. He's a really bad dog. Who was I Speaker 2 (4:15) talking Speaker 1 (4:16) to? Speaker 2 (4:16) Okay, why are you trying to make me attracted to your dog? I feel like you're like, he's a bad boy with a huge dick. Speaker 1 (4:22) And he's really into piss play. Speaker 2 (4:25) Stop saying all my buzzwords. Speaker 1 (4:28) Okay. You heard it here first. Are you on like sniffies or any of that stuff? I'm on Speaker 2 (4:33) Grindr, but only for the most part. Only for finding guys to go ghost hunting with me. Speaker 1 (4:41) That's a thing you can do on Grindr. It's a thing I Speaker 2 (4:43) do. Good Speaker 1 (4:44) for you. Speaker 2 (4:44) On my YouTube channel, Roz Hernandez, the haunted doll. Speaker 1 (4:47) You heard it here first. Oh, they've heard it many times on this podcast. I never shut the fuck up about it. Please subscribe. People were talking at the bar this weekend. I was at a gay bar and people were talking about how expensive the... Grindr Premium is. I pay. And that the ads are really bad now. Yeah. I haven't been on Grindr in a really long time. It's been like a decade. Speaker 2 (5:08) Oh, it's great. Speaker 1 (5:08) You're really missing out on good stuff over there. Speaker 2 (5:11) It's Speaker 1 (5:11) really the scene. But someone at the bar pulled up like the Sniffies app and was showing me what was happening. That scares me. That's whole on main. Like it's actually so aggressive. Speaker 2 (5:23) Yeah. I mean, it's nice to see who your neighbors are, but I don't want... Speaker 1 (5:28) It's Mr. Rogers. Them to see where I Speaker 2 (5:30) am. Yeah. You see things that you can't erase from your mind of your neighbors if you're in a situation like that. Yeah, because then you're taking out the Speaker 1 (5:39) trash and you know. Speaker 2 (5:41) You're like, oh. You run into them. Speaker 1 (5:42) You're like, oh. Speaker 2 (5:43) I know what you're into. Hi, Mr. Henderson. Hi. Gooner 34. Not Speaker 1 (5:48) the Gooner. The Gooner. The first five minutes of the show, we're already talking about Gooney. Speaker 2 (5:53) Welcome to Ghosted. Okay. So. You are here not to talk about gooning. You are here to talk about the paranormal with me. Speaker 1 (6:05) I'm so excited. I'm a true believer. Really? Here's the thing. Speaker 2 (6:10) I know this is fucked up and some people will not like that I'm saying this, but there is kind of a thing where you're like. wait, really smart Speaker 1 (6:17) people are not supposed to believe in Speaker 2 (6:19) this stuff. Speaker 1 (6:22) No, I think I'm going to clarify your statement. So Speaker 2 (6:24) when like a doctor or like a very educated scholar or whatever, you're like, wait, they believe in this? Then Speaker 1 (6:32) it might be real. Yeah, no, I know. Like there are a couple of books about this. I think Mary Roach talks, like she's a scientist and she did a whole book on the paranormal. And I think that oftentimes gets mistranslated, right? This notion that people who believe in this stuff aren't smart or that really smart people couldn't possibly believe in that. But I feel like if you are really smart, you're able to understand an argument, understand logic, but also when that logic and argument fails. So I know the things that I've seen or heard from other people and I'm like, logically, there's no reasonable way this could have possibly happened without paranormal activity. Speaker 2 (7:11) Well, these conversations, sometimes at least what we're looking for is these scenarios that you kind of hit a dead end with. And you're like, Speaker 1 (7:21) literally dead end. It must be Speaker 2 (7:24) the dead. If we can't figure out what this is, well, I guess the only logical explanation is an invisible dead person. It's Speaker 1 (7:33) possibly that. Yeah. I think that I don't think we'll leave this conversation today with me. having any resolution as to what happened to me. Speaker 2 (7:42) Good. Speaker 1 (7:42) I don't want that ever. Speaker 2 (7:44) Do Speaker 1 (7:44) people come on here and they're like, Roz, figure my shit out for me. People Speaker 2 (7:48) come to me Speaker 1 (7:48) thinking that I'm going to give them answers Speaker 2 (7:49) and I don't know anything. Okay. None of us know anything. We're just figuring it out together. Don't believe anyone that acts like they know anything. Yeah. Just have fun. Yeah. Enjoy the mystery. Speaker 1 (8:03) I do feel like that's where Sylvia Brown got a lot of the hate. or is getting a lot of the meme-ography right now. I'm a Sylvia Brown truther. I think Sylvia Brown is right. Like, I think she's actually psychic. That is my hot take, and I'm willing to go on the record with that. Why do you think that? Because her nails. Speaker 2 (8:22) Like if you have nails Speaker 1 (8:23) like Speaker 2 (8:23) that, you know stuff. Speaker 1 (8:25) She, I think we're so focused on how decisive she is. We don't know if that man drowned. When someone comes and says, hey, what happened to my father? He drowned. Okay. That person accepted it. That's actually on the audience member for not pressing her further on what happened. It's not really on her. See, that's Speaker 2 (8:46) the thing. Now you, with your law experience. Do you got follow-up questions if someone says something like that? I guess I do Speaker 1 (8:55) have some follow-up Speaker 2 (8:55) questions for Sylvia. Okay, Speaker 1 (8:56) okay. Speaker 2 (8:56) She's still alive. Let's try it. Okay. Ask me what happened to your ex Speaker 1 (9:03) -boyfriend. Sylvia, what happened to my boyfriend? He just, he went out for a pack of cigarettes and never came back, and I know he didn't walk out on me. He suffocated. Speaker 1 (9:15) That's actually all I need to know. That's actually funny. Really? No follow Speaker 2 (9:18) -ups? I Speaker 1 (9:18) understand why Speaker 2 (9:18) there was no follow-up question Speaker 1 (9:20) because actually, I don't need to know. That's all the closure I need. Sylvia Brown was giving people closure. She was giving them the N answer. Maybe it wasn't the answer, but it was something. It was something. Yeah. Speaker 1 (9:36) Have you been to Psychics? I went to a Psychic with my friend when I was like very young. I think I was like a teenager. We were just walking by a little corner. Went in. Where was this? This was in Manhattan. Yeah. Are you from there? I'm from Long Island, but I grew up in New York. You Speaker 2 (9:51) know, Long Island is a classic spooky place. For mediums, right? Well, the Long Island medium. The Speaker 1 (10:00) Long Speaker 2 (10:00) Island medium, yeah. Speaker 1 (10:01) Yes. She's very... Speaker 2 (10:02) Icon of fingernails. Um, she... Do you have Speaker 1 (10:06) a Speaker 2 (10:06) male song? I don't. And that's why I'm not good at Speaker 1 (10:09) my psychic predictions. Speaker 2 (10:10) But, uh, she's Speaker 1 (10:12) from there. Amityville Horror on Long Island. Oh, the Amityville Horror? Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:17) The Amityville Horror. Yeah. That Speaker 1 (10:19) was a bad one. Speaker 2 (10:20) There's also, um, isn't there like a scary asylum Speaker 1 (10:25) or something? Yeah, uh... Cropsey? It was in like Kings Park, Long Island. There's an asylum, like an abandoned asylum now. Yeah. Amityville Horror. I mean, we can get into that. And Speaker 2 (10:37) that's something that like, you know, involved a trial and Speaker 1 (10:39) stuff because a guy killed his whole family. Yeah. And we still don't really know what happened. Like he seemed totally normal and went crazy. Speaker 2 (10:47) I do. What happened? I've looked into the case. What happened? Give me the bullets. Speaker 2 (10:55) I don't know. These people, it Speaker 1 (10:57) was Ed and Lorraine Warren. Do you know these people? No, I mean, not everyone on Long Island knows each other. And I think some of them are dead now. Speaker 2 (11:04) Okay. Ed and Lorraine Warren in my world, they're a big deal. Okay. And they're the ones that investigated the Amityville horror. Oh. They're the ones that the Conjuring movies are based on. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Speaker 1 (11:21) I ain't buying it. You're not buying it? No. There was nothing her normal there? There was just a guy who wanted, who killed his family? Speaker 2 (11:26) Maybe I think there was a little bit. I think that like with everything, it's like, anytime you're like based on a true story, please. Yeah. Yeah. My lips are based on a true story. Okay? They started as real. We're one Speaker 1 (11:41) surreal story. Speaker 2 (11:42) I mean, they're, they are shaped as lips. There's been enhancements and that is sometimes what happens when you hear based on a true story. It starts with something real and then things start getting crazy. You sold the rights, I think is what happened. I sold the rights to these lips a long time ago and you know what? They're making me money. Speaker 2 (12:07) Actually, because we've done this show since the early days of radio plays, there's always different kinds. We want to do different things a little bit. I was thinking it would be so fun to look at cases where... ghosts have made their way into the courtroom. Speaker 1 (12:25) I would love that. Speaker 2 (12:27) Yeah? Speaker 1 (12:27) Yeah, I know Speaker 2 (12:28) nothing about these. I want to hear your expertise. Well, let's just start with one, and then I want to hear more about your stories. Okay, so Ranker.com has 10 spooky court cases involving ghosts. Love that. This was written by Jim Rowley in 2021. Okay, so the one case I was just thinking we could talk about for a second. It was a case that involved the Conjuring movies. So Speaker 1 (12:56) are you familiar? Are you like a horror? I love horror, but I've never got into the Conjuring saga. That's okay. Because by the time it reached me in my life, we were on episode 2000. Speaker 2 (13:07) Yeah. And it gets... It Speaker 1 (13:08) was the re-Conjuring of the underbelly of the first Conjuring. It Speaker 2 (13:12) was Speaker 1 (13:12) just, there were too many colons, ampersand, subtitle. Speaker 2 (13:18) Honey. If there's one problem I deal with, it's too many colons. It's too little time. Speaker 1 (13:23) On that Speaker 2 (13:23) gate cruise you worked. Too little time. You just got back from a gate cruise. And there were colons. Some of them semi-colons. Okay. So, the... As Lorraine Warren, there's the couple that these movies are about. Okay. Okay? They were real people. They... You know again study the amoeba horror, but they studied these cases that became the conjuring movies, okay, okay, so in 2016 Gerald brittle who's the author of the 1980 book the demonologist which details the case files of Ed and Lorraine Warren, okay, he sued Warner Brothers for $900 million over the Conjuring franchise. According to Brittle's lawsuit, when he signed the agreement with Lorraine Warren in 1978 to write The Demonologist, it included an exclusive non-compete clause that forbade anyone from making derivative works based on the Warrens' cases without Brittle's approval. Brittle's lawsuit... also claimed that when he sent Warner Brothers a cease and desist letter, the company responded that it was basing the movie not on the demonologist, not the book, but on, quote, historical events. Speaker 1 (14:36) Whoa. Speaker 2 (14:37) Brittle's lawsuit challenged Warner Brothers to prove, to either prove that the hauntings and the demonologist had really happened or fork over nearly a billion Speaker 1 (14:47) dollars. Wow. They ended up settling out of court. So this happens a lot with intellectual property cases is that you have to prove that the work was actually yours. It was an idea. So like the first rule of intellectual property law is that you have to distill it down into some sort of physical like material. Right. Whether that's recorded on some sort of drive. whether it is a written document, you have to distill it into something tangible because you can't copyright or trademark an idea. That's really like the one cardinal rule. So what it sounds like here is that they had a lot of conversations about what the demonologist or the conjuring was going to be, but only one of them maybe put it into writing or maybe sold it as