Episode 341 - David Wain

Breaking Bread with Tom Papa - All Things Comedy

Comedian David Wain joins Tom Papa on 'Breaking Bread' to discuss his long journey in comedy, from early days at NYU with The State to creat

Key takeaways

• David Wain emphasizes that sustained success in comedy often comes from long-term dedication rather than quick wins, citing his decade-long effort to bring Gail Dodger to life.
• The State's legacy is remarkable for maintaining strong personal and professional connections among its original members over decades.

Main topics

• The enduring legacy of The State comedy group
• Creative persistence and long-term projects like Gail Dodger and the Slippery Slut

Notable quotes

"It was just basically me going through the rest of my life and never shutting up about it."

"I was the entertainer... I had three sisters. Right. And so I was the entertainer."

Conclusion

The episode closes with warmth and mutual admiration between Wain and

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:06) The Speaker 1 (0:07) city moves fast, but your vibe, that's different. Sharper, smoother, more alive. Speaker 2 (0:17) The new Speaker 1 (0:22) Honda City isn't just made to drive, it's made to feel. The new Honda City, all new vibe. Speaker 3 (0:30) If there's something that I really love, I just decided I'm getting this done somehow, someday. Right. And that's what I did with Wet Hot American Summer and this other one, They Came Together, which took 10 years. This new one, Gale, took 10 years. 10 Speaker 4 (0:43) years. Speaker 3 (0:43) And it was just basically me going through the rest of my life and never shutting up about it. And anytime anyone's like, what do you got? I'm like, I got this. And then Speaker 4 (0:51) they Speaker 3 (0:51) say no. And then I'm like, I don't care. Let's keep pushing. And just Speaker 4 (0:55) keep going. Yeah. Speaker 3 (0:57) It's breaking Speaker 2 (0:57) bread. Speaker 4 (0:59) Thanks for being here. I'm really hungover. Are you really hungover? Yeah, I had a big Knicks game last night. Speaker 3 (1:06) How'd they do? Knicks in five. Speaker 4 (1:12) Do you know what I'm doing? You don't know what I'm doing? I'm doing, I'm doing, come Speaker 2 (1:17) on. Speaker 1 (1:18) I'm really hungover. Speaker 1 (1:22) Molly Shannon's in the film. Speaker 4 (1:24) Oh, come on. Nothing. No, Speaker 3 (1:27) now I know what you mean. I'm Speaker 4 (1:28) doing Sam Morrell and Mark Norman. I Speaker 3 (1:30) don't know how that became so legendary. It was Speaker 4 (1:32) really popped off. That is Speaker 3 (1:33) so funny. It popped off. That was like the talk of the town. Yeah. I guess in the comedy podcast world. Yeah. And I think Tim spread Speaker 4 (1:41) it when we were on his. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was Speaker 1 (1:44) so Speaker 4 (1:44) funny. Speaker 1 (1:45) Yeah. Speaker 4 (1:45) Tim Heidecker got really. So Molly Shannon's in it. Speaker 4 (1:51) It was so great. That is really funny. Speaker 3 (1:53) Yeah. I was like, all right, whatever. Speaker 4 (1:56) We've never met, which is so bizarre. Yes. Because I've known you my whole comedy life. Speaker 3 (2:01) I feel like we're part of the same world for decades. Yeah. Speaker 4 (2:04) Yeah. When was the state in New York? In Speaker 3 (2:07) the early 90s. Speaker 4 (2:08) Early 90s. That's when I started. Yeah. Speaker 3 (2:10) Well, I graduated school in 91 and we somehow got right into doing that. Speaker 4 (2:14) Yeah. And I was 93 was my first standup spot. Oh, really? Yeah. Cellar? New York Comedy Club. Great. Yeah. And so that was 93. And then we were banging around. You were doing your thing, and you got your whole group going. And I was just- We must have been in the Speaker 3 (2:32) same room many times. Speaker 4 (2:33) Yeah, maybe. Maybe. But I'm really happy you're here. You make great stuff, and you have always made me laugh. Speaker 3 (2:39) And same. Thank you. Yeah. Speaker 4 (2:40) And I feel like you are part of my journey, even though we've never really talked. And Speaker 3 (2:45) you Speaker 4 (2:45) know this David Wayne. What's that? David Wayne. Oh, David. Oh, shit. Speaker 3 (2:50) Because one time I went to, when I was in my early 20s, I once went to an ABC casting general meeting. They called me. They were like, we want to sit down with you and talk about a development deal or whatever. Excuse me. I was very excited. And the minute I walked in, it was ultra clear they had the wrong guy. Speaker 4 (3:10) Oh, no. For real? Speaker 3 (3:12) They were like, get that guy from the state or whatever, but they wanted Ken Marino or something. And they couldn't even hide it. They were like, oh, oh. And they basically weren't even dishonest about it. They were just like, anyway, well, sorry to waste your time. Speaker 4 (3:27) Oh, jeez. That's kind of a cool thing about you guys is that you had real success with the state. made some noise and had your show. And then so many people, how many people in total? 11. 11 people. And out of that, how many are still in the orbit today? Pretty Speaker 3 (3:50) much all, just about all. Pretty Speaker 4 (3:52) remarkable. Speaker 3 (3:52) Yeah, it was. It was a remarkable grouping of people that met in college and we all really loved doing it. And we did that show on MTV and then kind of decided to, consciously or not, just to keep... Working together in different ways over the years. Speaker 4 (4:07) That's really unusual. I mean, even groups of four or five people don't go the distance. Was it all college, or did you pick up some in New York? Speaker 3 (4:15) No, no. It all started when we were freshmen and sophomores at NYU. Right. And it kind of solidified. The lineup solidified relatively early on. And then, yeah, we just were like, even though it was 11 people, and it was all democracy, nobody in charge. Yeah. fought through every decision. Yeah, that's great. Fell apart like in 97 as an active group. Speaker 4 (4:42) Yeah, yeah. Because our Speaker 3 (4:43) show, all this stuff happened, but then we just kept being like a family. Speaker 4 (4:47) Yeah, that's great. Did your role change from the beginning of what you thought? Because in the beginning you're like, I'm going to do whatever, I'm going to be this kind of... Speaker 3 (4:58) Yeah, I mean, well... I mean, we all kind of showed up having been like the funny guy in our high school. And then now like, oh, everybody's really good. Where Speaker 4 (5:08) was your high school? Speaker 3 (5:10) In Shaker Heights, Ohio. Speaker 4 (5:12) Cleveland, Speaker 3 (5:12) Ohio. Yeah, Speaker 4 (5:13) yeah. Speaker 3 (5:13) And so I felt I was actually pretty intimidated as a writer and a performer around people like Michael Ian Black and Michael Showalter. I was just like, geez. So it took me a while to kind of re-get my confidence. doing those sort of things. And I did, I gravitated toward directing, which is what I still do. Speaker 4 (5:33) Right, right. How funny were you in school? When were you, when did you know you were funny? Speaker 3 (5:39) I was always the class clown, like from being conscious. Yeah. I was the youngest by far and the only boy in my, I had three sisters. Right. And so I was the entertainer. Speaker 4 (5:52) Yeah. In the family. Were your parents funny? Speaker 3 (5:56) Yes. Not in the same, not like as comedians really, but my dad was a DJ on the radio. Oh, yeah? In his early career anyway. And so, yeah, he was pretty funny and they all, Everyone in my family has a sense of humor in a different way, yeah. Speaker 4 (6:11) Right, yeah. And were you a classical young junior high and high school? Speaker 3 (6:18) Yeah, I mean, I was, yeah. Speaker 4 (6:20) I was Speaker 3 (6:22) the same as I am now. I was just sort of an oddball and kind of had a slightly off sense of humor. Right. Speaker 4 (6:32) Is it so weird how we're just completely... made Speaker 3 (6:35) that way. It's crazy. Sometimes I find like a journal entry I wrote when I was 19. I'm like, oh, literally the same problems, the same thoughts, you know, like... The Speaker 4 (6:45) same struggles. Yeah. Same person. Speaker 3 (6:47) It's amazing how little we change sometimes. Speaker 4 (6:50) Yeah. I had this little gnome notebook. It was the first time I had like a notebook that I, it was like a little denim cover and a little gnome in the corners. It's called gnome notebook. And that was the first time that I consciously wrote funny thoughts down. I was just like, write some stuff. And I remember writing some stuff and being like, that's really lame. Like reading it back, like just, and it was like, Oh, what was I doing to this day? When I write something and it's lame, I see the gnome notebook. Speaker 3 (7:19) Oh Speaker 4 (7:20) wow. You know what I mean? I'm like, oh, that's how you're not funny is when you write that way. And are Speaker 3 (7:26) you in the practice? I'm actually so... Speaker 3 (7:32) realizing I've never, anyway, the risk of asking a really stupid question. Do you wake up and sit down in your current life now and feel like, now it's time to write funny things? Yeah, Speaker 4 (7:42) yeah. And I go through, I just handed in another book. And for the last year, the getting up and going in the morning was writing that. Speaker 3 (7:55) And Speaker 4 (7:55) then stand up, I will write whenever I'm about to go up. Like if I'm going to leave the house, I'll like spend like an hour before I go. So I've been writing these essays for a year. Yeah. And. Speaker 4 (8:12) longer than a year, but methodically, like get in the morning and that's the thing. And now that it's over, I'll go back to looking at the standup. Speaker 3 (8:21) Yeah. Speaker 4 (8:21) Yeah. Do Speaker 3 (8:22) you have it all? Speaker 4 (8:22) I love that. I love the early morning. I love the coffee sitting at my desk. Speaker 3 (8:28) How do you organize a lifetime's worth of material? Speaker 4 (8:32) What do you mean? Speaker 3 (8:33) Like, do you have it like Joan Rivers and like- Speaker 4 (8:35) Oh, like all- Cards or- No. Yeah. I know Seinfeld has that too where he's got like, he released all of his bits he's ever written in a book form. And it was like, he had those. So Speaker 3 (8:49) do you just, you're working on what you're set now and you're not thinking about- No. Not cataloging Speaker 4 (8:54) - Speaker 3 (8:54) No. Speaker 4 (8:54) I mean, the laptop kind of keeps some of it. Right. It'll keep things. Speaker 3 (9:00) I guess when you do a special, it's there. Right, it starts Speaker 4 (9:02) to boil it down and then it gets in a written form. And then also, yeah, it's just recorded. And yeah, I don't hang on to it. And then some people will be like, that joke, you know, the one with the garlic? And you're like, ah. And I'll ask my wife, did I have a joke about Speaker 3 (9:19) garlic? Do you ever accidentally write the same joke that you did 20 years ago? Speaker 4 (9:24) No, but adjacent. Right, right. Yeah, consciously. Like, that's good. Speaker 3 (9:30) Right. Speaker 4 (9:30) And that sounds like that other one. Which is Speaker 3 (9:33) a Speaker 4 (9:33) good thing. It was good then. I Speaker 3 (9:35) have shamelessly repeated exactly the same jokes in, you know, knowing that the fans will recognize it and be like, right. Speaker 4 (9:43) Yeah. There's one in my act now. And it's kind of like a tag. And that tag was a really good joke from a couple specials ago. Speaker 4 (9:57) I'm leaving it because I can tell from the laugh, some people know and some people just think it's funny. You know what I mean? That little callback. Speaker 3 (10:06) So interesting. I always think about like when it shifted where people wanted to hear the exact same routines over and over again. Speaker 4 (10:13) Yeah, yeah. I think that they still kind of do. Yeah. Did you do standup at that time? I Speaker 3 (10:19) never really did stand up seriously. Never? I dipped in in tiny little ways or I did, I was part of the like alt. scene right so i was doing luna lounge and i was doing different kinds of bits yeah Speaker 4 (10:31) but Speaker 3 (10:31) i i i never really i always said to myself at some point when i have the bandwidth and the time i'm gonna try it right Speaker 4 (10:43) but i Speaker 3 (10:43) don't want to i know that i it's not something i feel like i want to try as a half-assed hobby at some point i want to like do it six nights a week sometime Speaker 4 (10:52) yeah and you think that's still in your future i do Yeah? I Speaker 3 (10:55) mean, maybe. Speaker 4 (10:56) Yeah. Speaker 3 (10:57) It's a muscle I've never fully developed. Yeah. I know Speaker 4 (11:01) you'd be good at it. Everything's sort of surrounding it. Just the way you speak, you'd be good at it. Because it's an interesting, funny cadence. And Speaker 3 (11:10) certainly, all the things I do do, like I've been going around with this band with like 12 people touring around. Or when we did The State, we had a, I mean, like, I'm like, oh my god, just to be one person. The logistics and the economics of it. Oh my God. Yeah. Speaker 4 (11:25) Oh my God. Speaker 3 (11:26) Well, cause they were like, you know, last week we had John Mulaney here and it was twice as full and he took every cent of it. I was like, oh, that Speaker 4 (11:34) seems like a better deal. Have you been touring with it recently? Speaker 3 (11:38) No. Well, we, the state, we did a little bit of touring like two years ago and it was awesome, but it was, it. fell under its own weight. It's too many people and too much. We also couldn't help but like get costumes and lights and sound. It's Speaker 4 (11:53) a Speaker 3 (11:53) lot. It was too much of a thing. Speaker 4 (11:55) You have to know you're going to lose money and just do it for fun. Speaker 3 (11:58) Right. And also, also keeping that many people in one schedule was. Oh, Speaker 4 (12:04) God. Speaker 3 (12:05) Ridiculous. With 11 different careers. That's insane. But it was fun. It was awesome. Speaker 4 (12:11) So you just had the anniversary of Wet Hot American Summer. Speaker 3 (12:13) That's right now. Speaker 4 (12:14) Yeah. 25 years. 25 years. That is insane that it's 25. I'm sure you're hearing that every time you talk about it. I can't believe it. Speaker 3 (12:21) What? I mean, it was- It seems like Speaker 4 (12:22) it was yesterday. Speaker 3 (12:24) And it was a tiny movie that essentially didn't come out. I mean, it was- Yeah. It had a tiny release. It made no money. It lost every cent that it was invested in. Speaker 4 (12:32) Really? It's a success story, ultimately. Speaker 3 (12:35) Ultimately. It was one of those very slow builds. In fact, I think the actual movie just hit profit this year. Really? For real, which is so insane. That's crazy. But yeah, Speaker 4 (12:49) I Speaker 3 (12:49) mean, by the time, 14 years later, Netflix was like, oh, the classic comedy, let's make, and we did a whole miniseries prequel and then another miniseries sequel. But it was. The first five years after we made that movie, I would come out here to LA. I was living in New York. And people would be like, oh, I love the movie. But you can't do anything like that. And also, don't forget, it was a huge money loser. Right. And yeah, it's one of those things that grew over time. Yeah. Speaker 4 (13:18) It was so good. I mean, it was growing up comedically the way we grew up. Yeah. That comedic spin on. That era and those comedies is just so good. Speaker 3 (13:31) That's all we set out to do. Let's do a big thing where it's funny the way we want it to be funny. The way we think things are funny. Speaker 4 (13:38) Yeah. That had to be pretty challenging with 11 people that the hive mind all thinks funny the same way. Speaker 3 (13:46) Yeah. The state wasn't officially the maker of... Yeah. Speaker 4 (13:51) But Speaker 3 (13:51) yes, yeah. No, Speaker 4 (13:52) I'm just saying. Yeah, I'm just going back. When we were doing that, Speaker 3 (13:55) yeah. the art designer would come and be like, do you want a red or a blue thing? And we're like, okay, leave. And we'll, the 11 of us, we'll talk it out and then give you an answer. Like it was every Speaker 4 (14:03) single thing. And, um, and did it start to get more in sync as over time? Well, people started Speaker 3 (14:11) to specialize a little bit or like, you know, like, all right, you guys can talk about the costumes. I'll, I'll sit out for that one. Right. Right. But no, I think eventually. people started to get more confident in their individual voices. And that's what made it hard to literally stay as a group of 11. And then after we were done with the TV show, we tried to make a movie that fell apart. We did make a book and a record that was whatever. And then at that point, a smaller subset of the group went off and did that show, Viva Variety. And that sort of was a schism at that time. Speaker 4 (14:46) Right. And we were all like, we hate you, we hate you. Was Speaker 3 (14:48) it like that? It was. It was a dark period. But then we, I think in the long term, came to the notion that meeting these kind of people is not every day. And we just sort of like time healed it all. Speaker 4 (15:04) Yeah. Because in a lot of ways, if you look at it, the way people work together that aren't in a group. They do circle back, right? It's a lot of people, like you'll see, show up in each other's comedies or show up in each other's whatever. Well, you realize Speaker 3 (15:17) when you really connect with someone comedically or just personally, it's not like something the dime a dozen. You value that. Speaker 4 (15:27) Did you party a lot in the early days, Luna Lounge days? Was it a big drinking scene? It was. Speaker 3 (15:36) I was unique. For some reason, That it's not, there's no exact reason, but like I just was abstinent from all that until my late twenties. I never had a drink or a smoke or anything. Really? And people would ask me why. And I, the answer was, I don't know. I just didn't want it. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 4 (15:56) And Speaker 3 (15:56) then at a certain point I'm like, I don't know why. And then I was like, all right, I'll drink a little bit. Speaker 4 (15:59) Right. But Speaker 3 (16:01) no, the state in general was a big, like we worked our asses off all day and then we would go out all night. Right. And it was, you know, hung out. We were with each other 24-7, whether it was partying or working. Speaker 4 (16:15) Where did you live in New York at that time? The village. In the village? I was Speaker 3 (16:18) there. I was in the village for 26 years. Speaker 4 (16:20) You were? Where? Speaker 3 (16:22) From the beginning of college all the way to 26 years later. Right. I was all over. We started in the dorms at NYU, and then I was East Village, and then West Village. Right. I had kids there. Oh, you did? And then... Moved to LA when they were like kindergarten. Speaker 4 (16:38) Oh, that's about what we did. We did the same kind of thing. Yeah. We were up on, we were like Chelsea and 10th street. And yeah. I Speaker 3 (16:48) miss it quite a bit. Speaker 4 (16:50) Yeah. Speaker 4 (16:52) I go back as much as I can. Yeah, me too. We Speaker 3 (16:54) just did our, so I'm in this cover band and we just played. It was a dad. Middle-aged dad jam band. Middle Speaker 4 (17:00) -aged Speaker 3 (17:00) dad jam band. With Ken Marino and a lot of other same kind of larger group of people. And we just did Irving Plaza. You did? Yeah, it was this incredible. Really? Also like wet hot anniversary themed rock and roll. That's great. Just, I was thinking about like, I don't know. Wet hot American summer. Like, I don't know any. filmmaker that has celebrated their own work so much for better or worse it's great but you know i don't know yeah fans are like we love it i'm like let's let me let's set on yeah Speaker 1 (17:33) yeah Speaker 4 (17:34) that must have been cool to play irving plaza it Speaker 3 (17:37) it excuse Speaker 4 (17:38) me Speaker 3 (17:39) it was really quite a thrill we had actually played there a couple years ago as well oh yeah but it was bad that was our first big show and we weren't quite ready and it was it was It was kind of one of the worst shows. But then this time was really awesome. Is it covers Speaker 4 (17:55) or is it original? It's Speaker 3 (17:56) all covers. It's like a straight up dad band. We play music from the 60s, 70s, 80s. Nice. The twist is that we're actually better than you think. Right. It's a combo of me and Ken, not actual pro musicians, and then some real musicians. And it's great. Speaker 4 (18:13) Yeah. I saw a clip of a close-up of Ken singing. And I was like, Oh no, he's not faking it. Like he's into it. Speaker 3 (18:22) Well, and that's the thing, like the big, he can really sing. Speaker 4 (18:25) Yeah. Oh, he can. Yeah. Yeah. So