Rogue AI Agents, AI Regulation & the AI Race Against China

Bourbon with Brad

The episode explores the tension between the need for AI regulation and the potential for 'regulatory capture' by major tech leaders. The ho

Key takeaways

• Top executives including Sam Altman and Dario Amodei are publicly calling for government regulation of AI development.
• The hosts debate if these regulatory calls represent 'regulatory capture' designed to protect incumbents from competition.

Main topics

• AI Regulation and Safety
• Regulatory Capture

Notable quotes

Is it really true what they're doing... Is it regulatory capture?

Conclusion

The episode serves as a cautionary yet curious look at how rapidly adv

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:01) Welcome to Bourbon with Brad. Speaker 1 (0:05) The views and opinions shared on the Bourbon with Brad podcast are our own and those of our guests. Nothing we discuss should be taken as financial, legal, business, or gambling advice. Don't make investment, business, or betting decisions based on our conversations as you should always talk to a qualified professional. Always drink responsibly, never drink and drive, and only consume alcohol if you are of legal drinking age. Speaker 3 (0:34) DACA Daily.ai is not built for everyone. It's built for the counsel who already knows that speed, precision, and early intelligence win cases, shape strategy, and protect the enterprise. We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. If you've heard of us, it's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. Speaker 3 (1:10) If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of counsel who treat information as a strategic asset, not a commodity. DocketDaily.ai. The quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. Speaker 4 (1:34) And we are back in the studios of Indiana, PA. Yes, sir. Oh, the bourbon studios. The reorganized bourbon studios. Since we took the road on the show, or the show on the road, Speaker 1 (1:45) you Speaker 4 (1:45) know how that works. I'm always backwards, you know. Mine's going before my feet, you know. But, yeah, we came back. And, Perry, you organized everything. Got it all looking great. That's Speaker 5 (2:01) good. Speaker 5 (2:03) an opportunity to uh kind of start from scratch you can redo it's still a little messy in front of my table but you know i don't know what to do with these cables i mean unless we go to a wireless system which someday maybe but uh yeah right now we got a string of wires around the bar and it's all Speaker 4 (2:21) that's fine they're they're perfect yeah Speaker 5 (2:23) so Speaker 4 (2:23) yeah it looks yeah it's good to be home it is good to be home we're back in our in our studios where we've You know, we took last week to look at the beautiful Iron City Distilling. And thanks to Peter again and Matt and Cliff and Bob Pompeiani and all of our friends and family that joined us down there. And you guys, Per, you, Louie, and Eric. I mean, it was a lot of fun. It was a cool experience to do. It was very Speaker 5 (2:49) cool. Speaker 4 (2:50) It was our very first time seeing it, too. So it was, we were in awe just like everybody else of the facility. It's amazing. It is. I mean, it's like a, it's like a. Speaker 4 (3:04) Man, what would be the proper, it's almost like a brewery amusement park, you know? I mean, it is so clean, so nice, you know? Yeah. It is. Speaker 5 (3:12) You know, it was funny. It's one of those things that, like, I've probably driven past that place. How many times? Just in the last five years, probably a hundred times. You know, Garrett had practiced down there at Deer Lakes, and we're down there all the time. And, you know, I'd always kind of glance over and think, oh, the distillery looks cool, and, you know. Or, I mean, the brewery, you can see it right up front, you know, but it was so cool to go in and see it. Speaker 4 (3:39) Yeah, and they're always doing events down there, too. So they're always hosting, you know, different functions and cool things to try and, you know, Oktoberfest, all the stuff, right? So, I mean, they always have something going. You know, I think they even had a stage set up in the back there. I say the back, but back to the distillery was where the brewery is. And it's kind of like a – it's almost like a hybrid approach on reflection. You know, Iron City just – The Icy Light, you know, the Pittsburgh Brewing Company technically, right, the Icy Light that makes Icy Light amongst a few other beers, they are very much so automated. You know, you go through the brewing part of it. I mean, they've used the highest technology and the highest, you know, really cool equipment, right? The bottling line was Speaker 5 (4:21) really Speaker 4 (4:21) cool. I mean, right? I mean, when Cliff had the chance to set this all up, you know, a few years ago, you had the chance to do new equipment. Speaker 5 (4:28) Kind of like we did coming back here. You're starting fresh. Yep. Set it up the way you want. You know, that was, he did it right. But Speaker 4 (4:36) then you have Matt's hands-on approach and he wants to be, you know, he wants to be a part of the process. He wants to feel it. He wants to be it. You know, he wants to, you know, be on, you know, and that, that there's something to be said for that. You know, that, that's. Oh, no doubt. There's some, you know, love and care going into every one of Speaker 5 (4:49) those Speaker 4 (4:50) bourbon barrels, you know? Speaker 5 (4:51) Yeah. And I think just like many other things in this world, when it's, when you get a. craft product, and we'll call it craft, even though I don't think they want to be called craft if I remember correctly, but when you get a product that's got that much care and attention to detail put into it, you're going to get a good product. And I was about to say, usually you pay more for it, but from what he was saying, these prices are going to be right in line with just most of the other bourbon we're getting. Speaker 4 (5:20) Yeah, I mean, when he was going through the tour, he was saying, look, you know, I have to have these, you know, this one of three stills, right? The three chamber. Yeah, the three chamber up and down, right? Everything that they do is a little more expensive. Yeah. But it's also a little more flavorful. You know, there's a give and take, right? Yeah. And you definitely notice it when you have it. And that's leading into why we have the Bessemer sitting on the pedestal. Because as much as we were talking about the great facility and we had the chance to talk with Matt, we had the chance to talk with Peter and Bob Pompiani, we really didn't get a chance to really spend some time on the Bessemer. So I thought, you know, let's bring it back to the studio. Speaker 5 (6:00) Yeah. And Speaker 4 (6:01) let's enjoy it today as we crack it open the second, you know, segment when Louie gets here. Speaker 5 (6:06) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:06) And we'll give our, you know, we know a little bit about it now. Speaker 5 (6:10) Well, and we, so the funny thing is I didn't have a single bourbon that night. I had a couple of Iron Cities and Iron City Lights, but. I did too as the show Speaker 4 (6:19) was getting going. I mean, didn't they taste good, huh? Oh, yeah. It doesn't get any fresher. Well, and that's what we got in the fridge here too. You know, we've gone completely, you know, Western Pennsylvania now. Speaker 5 (6:29) We should anyway. I mean, it's definitely a good beer. But I didn't have any bourbon that night because we had a little bit of a drive after we were done. And I just get real uptight because it's like, oh, I've got to pack all this stuff up. And it was OK. I mean, that was fine. We had a bourbon back at the hotel. We did. That was Speaker 4 (6:49) really my first bourbon, too. I mean, it did have a couple of tastes of the Bessemer on set, but nothing that we got the chance to talk about. The Speaker 5 (6:58) only time I had it was when Cliff brought the bottles up to us back. Yes, and that was very early Speaker 4 (7:03) on. So that was one of the, you know, I think the barrel was in the 200s. Speaker 5 (7:09) Yeah, it was. I remember you mentioned it in the show. Speaker 4 (7:12) Although he said that doesn't necessarily mean it's early on. He said that's just in the rotation of the barrels that they're doing. So they've been doing this for about three years now. Yeah. So, yeah. Speaker 5 (7:21) Yeah, so it's pretty fascinating. I'm looking forward to having some tonight. I am a big fan of Rise. I do remember the day we had it up at the club. And it's very flavorful. It's strong. Well, Speaker 4 (7:34) and that's where I think I've changed. So I think with some of the bourbons that we've tried, we've tried some pretty strong ones. We have. Over the last 30-some episodes. And some Speaker 5 (7:42) of the 115 and up proof ones are smoother than some of the 90 proof. Right. So it's not all about that. I think I'm going to have a different appreciation this time because just a Speaker 4 (7:54) little bit I did have, even though it was on the tail end of a couple beers too as we were getting going, as we were setting everything up. Speaker 5 (8:00) Yeah. Speaker 4 (8:00) Getting the band set up, you know, with Sav and Max and Connie Rhodes. I Speaker 5 (8:04) wish I had a chance to sit and listen to them a little bit. Oh, they Speaker 4 (8:08) were awesome, right? Speaker 5 (8:09) So we got to chat with them a little bit after we were all done. But great people. It was great. It was an awesome night. It was. It was a freaking awesome night. It was. And Speaker 4 (8:17) what Speaker 5 (8:17) most of our people, fans, and listeners don't probably know, we all participated in a big annual golf outing the next day here at our club. And I can't tell you how many people I had coming up to me. A lot of them were there the night before. Same here. Saying how much fun they had. And I'm sure you did too. Speaker 4 (8:37) Yeah. And just saying what an amazing place it is. Speaker 5 (8:39) Yeah. It's beautiful. Speaker 4 (8:40) Kind of like we said, you kind of see it from the road. It's big. It's very, it looks, he keeps everything from, I mean, when you come in, the grass is perfectly mowed. I mean, everything. Oh, it's Speaker 5 (8:49) immaculate. Just done, you know. Immaculate. Speaker 4 (8:51) Cliff Forest style, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And. I still, it's right on the river. It's just gorgeous, right? The old PPG, there's a lot of history goes back. And of course he, he, he, he acquired a lot of the signage and the. And the memorabilia. I mean, you just go into the gift shop alone and you feel like you're in an icy light. And I don't Speaker 1 (9:10) know Speaker 5 (9:10) if you caught that. Peter made a comment. And I don't remember if it was on our tour. It was when you were interviewing him about on the fourth floor they have a museum room where they have like all kinds of old signage and memorabilia. I didn't get to see Speaker 4 (9:22) that. I'd love to see that. I know. It's a big place. It is a big place. It is a big place. And, you know, you take that old freight elevator up. It's pretty cool, right? Speaker 5 (9:30) Yeah. And when Eric and I were doing the tour. With Peter, we were in the Rick house and it's heated. Yeah. And so he said, oh, it's about 84 degrees and Eric Speaker 6 (9:40) and I are going, Speaker 5 (9:41) it's more than that. Speaker 4 (9:44) Right. Pretty cool though. It is cool. It's awesome how they're doing things over there. And I can't wait to actually savor the Bessemer tonight as we work our way through this week's episode. And there's a lot going on. So, you know, since we had such amazing, you know. folks to talk with, you know, between Matt and Peter and Bob Pompiani and, you know, the folks down there at the IC Distillery. Speaker 4 (10:12) We didn't get a chance to really talk about AI headlines, and there was a lot going on this past week. We didn't, and there was. And there was a lot going on the week even previous. So we're kind of two weeks, you know, somewhat behind. Yeah. But I thought we would, you know, just start by saying, you know, this past weekend it got kind of real, right? So, and it was almost kind of fortuitous with what we've been talking about the last couple weeks before this last episode. As to, you know, what we thought were the real dangers and, you know, and to be, and I do want to get into it in the second or third segment when Louie's here. I'm trying to look at both sides and I'm listening to what the other side's saying and there may be something to it and I'm not going to give it away now, but I do want to at least present the other side and say why they, you know, why these four powerhouse executives, you know, we're talking Sam Altman. And Dario coming together, which they can't even hold, you know, elbows on stage in a unity. It Speaker 5 (11:18) seems like they're tripping over each other to come out with a statement these days. And the statements are a little kind of makes you go, hmm. Speaker 4 (11:27) And that's just it. It's a chess match. And trust me, we're not dealing with, you know, these guys are brilliant, brilliant people. Oh, yeah. There's a reason why they're all billionaires. There's a reason why they've had multiple successful companies. There's a reason that they both, well, at least Sam and Dario have these companies that are being valued at. In the Speaker 5 (11:49) trillions. Trillions. Or close to it, anyway. I Speaker 4 (11:52) mean, Speaker 5 (11:52) before Speaker 4 (11:52) you even go IPO. I mean, that's one heck of a return on investment for anybody. And there's a reason. It's Speaker 5 (11:59) a Speaker 4 (11:59) lot to Speaker 5 (11:59) live up to, too. Yeah, Speaker 4 (12:00) there's value being added. Speaker 5 (12:01) And Speaker 4 (12:02) they're managing this very. Speaker 4 (12:05) You know, I don't envy them at all because this is some rough waters they're going through right now. Speaker 4 (12:12) Before when it was the narrow AI, before it got into what I would say general AI now, AGI, you'll hear it from time to time. It's not quite artificial super intelligence yet per se, but maybe bordering on it at times in some of these latest models and at least maybe some of the latest speculation that's coming out of the labs, the ones that broke loose, Hugging Face. You know, you know, I have Speaker 5 (12:41) a hard time taking that name seriously, but I don't Speaker 4 (12:44) know Speaker 5 (12:44) why Speaker 4 (12:44) it's, it's a company that just sold for. I know it's a serious 12.75 billion to Nvidia. So it's great. It just sounds so, I know it just, it just sounds like something that, uh, we should have named Eric. The hugging man. Yeah. Right. He always goes back in for that second hug, you know, Speaker 5 (13:06) he's got the right idea. I think, Speaker 4 (13:09) no, I hear you. But, uh, uh, yeah, I'm not going to turn that away ever, but, uh, no. Yeah, so it's interesting as to what the motive is here. Is it really true what they're doing? But like I've said all along, this isn't something new. It's not like it's out of the – it's something new that they're saying. Dario and Sam have been saying all along, Dario more so. Yes. But if you look back to interviews that Sam Altman even did 16, 18 months ago, he was putting warnings out there. Was it? Elon's been putting warnings out there. Speaker 4 (13:43) Even though he's just cleared out the Tesla floor and says, we're building these humanoid robots and they're coming and coming in swarms, you know? I mean, I. Speaker 5 (13:55) You know, never in my life, and I'm 59 years old, have I seen a, or been exposed to, or involved in, or discussed with at any length, a topic like this one, where I feel like I bounce back and forth from side to side every other day. It's like, oh, yeah. I agree. And then it's like, I shouldn't have, and I don't know what to do about it. Speaker 4 (14:21) And I'm trying to take an apolitical approach on this. And just trying to take a very neutral stance. And that's why I want to bring up the other side that I think may be happening. Speaker 5 (14:29) Could Speaker 4 (14:29) be happening. But then again, I say to myself, well, if it is, have they been planning for that all along? Because they've been putting these warnings out there. And it's not just them. They, these, the leaders. Well, when we talk about Musk and Altman and Dario and also Hassabis, which is the founder of Deep. DeepMind and now works for Google. Zuckerberg. Yeah, I mean, you got these guys all coming out and saying, yeah, we got to have some measures in place that, and if you don't make everybody do it, and that's kind of what they're saying, if you don't, and everybody's like, well, and I think Trump came back and said, you know, well, nobody's stopping you from slowing down. You guys want to slow down, slow down. Speaker 4 (15:15) It's easy to say, now you're in a – you've got conflicting stakeholders, right? So you have the better of humanity, but you're in a capitalistic market where you're trying to get the greatest return, and you have a duty to get the greatest return on your investment. Obviously, that's in the best interest of the company as a whole. You don't want to do it to the detriment of everybody, and the company just fails, right? But they have a lot of stakeholders. They have a lot of major companies that are investing in them. You know, AWS, Microsoft, you know, they have major stakes in these companies. You know, when you hold a 20-some percent stake in $2 trillion companies, guess what? You guys are in bed together. Speaker 5 (15:57) Yeah, whether you Speaker 4 (15:58) like it or not. And I Speaker 5 (15:59) mean, there's obviously enough room in this space for all these huge, huge companies. So if you take the mangoes, the six main. Speaker 5 (16:10) The guys, the companies that are actually building the LLMs and say to them, look, we need to figure out a way for the sake of humanity and the sake of the safety of mankind. Speaker 4 (16:24) Yep, Speaker 5 (16:24) yep. Because this wasn't what we all saw killing, wiping out. life on this planet. It's still more likely to be a comet, right? Or an asteroid. So they should get them all together. Speaker 4 (16:35) Comet, asteroid, Speaker 5 (16:35) or a major volcano, right? Earthquake. We can go through all the scenarios that kind of Speaker 4 (16:39) triggers it off, right? But they Speaker 5 (16:41) should get these guys together and say, you're all AI. You can offer 6, 10, 12, 20 different platforms people use. Call it whatever you want, but it's all going to be pulled together in one common cause, and that needs to be providing the... exciting technology and the opportunities. I mean, it is exciting. I mean, like I dabble in it more and more every day. We've Speaker 4 (17:03) made better cartoons than ever. Speaker 6 (17:04) Yeah. Yeah, Speaker 5 (17:06) exactly. But, but that you're all going to be, you're all going to share liability and, and, you know, I mean, it sounds very socialistic, but I mean, I just don't, there has to be a better way because right now it's all, they're all driven by profit. So if they somehow are forced to all kind of join forces, then it'd still be driven by profit, but you're going to have more of a board of directors. Speaker 4 (17:31) When you say there has to be a better way, what are you referring to now? Are you talking about— A safer Speaker 5 (17:35) way of continuing to advance it. Like right now, I feel like, well, for the last however many, you know, two years, say, they've all been— tripping over each other to come out with the better, the newer model, the more powerful model. Now they're all tripping Speaker 4 (17:47) over each other to go, we need to slow Speaker 5 (17:48) down. Speaker 4 (17:49) Which is it? The second headline that we're going to get in today is, is them coming out with the newer model right after they said, we're going to need Speaker 5 (17:54) to Speaker 4 (17:54) slow down. So, so, and, and, you know, Anthropa came out and I'll get into that when, uh, when Louie gets here, but I mean, the Anthropa came out with their, their newest model. And then within 24 hours. Yeah. Speaker 4 (18:07) ChatGPT is dropping their two newest models. Speaker 5 (18:11) They come out with a Speaker 4 (18:11) new model every two weeks. So again, I think it goes back to when they're reaching out, if it really is true and there is no ulterior motive, let's put it that way, okay? And I'm going to leave you with the term as we sign off at the end of this segment as to what I want to talk about on the other side, the flip side, right? All right. That folks are arguing, and there's Speaker 5 (18:37) a Speaker 4 (18:37) strong argument there. Speaker 5 (18:38) Okay. In Speaker 4 (18:39) fact, I'm sitting there going. Speaker 5 (18:42) That's what I mean. I ping pong back and forth. I get it. Speaker 4 (18:44) I get it. But I do think people are being naive if they're saying this is one of those conspiracy things. It's another fear tactic. Speaker 4 (18:57) Maybe, you know, maybe to a certain extent, but I don't think that there isn't any teeth to this. I mean, there is being somebody that's actually working in it and I'm seeing how smart these things and what they can do and how they can actually not obey. It's not like a script that you used to write, you know, Speaker 2 (19:13) where Speaker 4 (19:14) you would program the script and it either did what you had to make sure every zero was proper, every period was proper, every, you know, everything along the code was proper, right? Or he didn't perform. Speaker 4 (19:29) It was just programmed what to do. This is different. This is no longer programmed. Our technology has advanced. Speaker 5 (19:39) I can think around those. And I got asked this Speaker 4 (19:42) all the time. In fact, when I was talking with a gentleman from Australia that I'm going to be on his show, The People Unlegal here in a few weeks, he said, Brad, what are you hearing? I said, well, I'm getting asked all the time. Okay, so what's the worst case scenario? I said, well, and we've been talking about that on the podcast. Worst case scenario can be pretty dire. Speaker 5 (19:59) Yeah. It could be as dire as Speaker 4 (20:02) you Speaker 5 (20:02) could think. Speaker 4 (20:03) I mean, one of the headlines we could talk about is how a water company that they've been alerting over in Ohio got hacked into, you know, and for a while it was compromised. You know, everything is almost all connected to the cloud. And like I said a couple weeks ago. We can't unplug it, but we can unplug from it. So I think maybe some of the smarter measures for our critical infrastructure is not to be connected to the cloud, is to have our own self-contained GPUs, to have our own on-site things. That's the same advice I give to attorneys and financial institutions and health organizations. Yeah, localize that data. Why put your data and yourself at risk to anything outside? Speaker 5 (20:41) What's the advantage of having it outside in any way? Speaker 4 (20:43) Well, the advantage is the infrastructure it's already set, because now you've got to reset it up. Speaker 5 (20:47) Okay, but I mean, beyond that, what advantage is there for other than... Speaker 5 (20:55) you're going to be confident that your data is always going to be there if you're using a cloud drive or a cloud server to store it on. But aside from that, I mean, there are ways to work around that internally too. One of the benefits of Speaker 4 (21:08) the cloud is you can keep expanding, right? So you're not limited by... You only buy what you need. Physical, yeah, exactly. So you don't have to overbuild it initially and you expand as you go. It's Microsoft, Google, AWS. You're talking about some of the biggest names in the business. It's Speaker 5 (21:24) virtually impossible to lose your data. Speaker 4 (21:26) You're getting the gold medallion, but there is still possibilities. And now more so there's possibilities even with these companies. Speaker 4 (21:37) It's scary when they're saying that they're hacking in and they're compromising infrastructures. And our water infrastructure got compromised over in Ohio for a tidbit. Thank goodness they were able to recover and get back control of that. But these are just examples that they're talking about. They're talking about electrical grid being compromised at times with all the new technology coming on. They're all connected. Data centers, obviously. Speaker 4 (22:01) Everything that's connected can be compromised in some way or fashion, right? Yeah. Speaker 5 (22:07) So where I work, for years we had quite a powerful and robust – I sound like an IT guy now – robust server and data storage system at our facility. So we had multiple drive units in a rack. We had the striping and all that stuff. And it was, we never had any issues with it. No. I mean, now it's antiquated and we don't use it anymore. But it was so, it's so expensive. It's expensive. So maybe this needs to be combined with, you know, what we're also seeing, it's becoming real expensive. It's like cyber insurance and things like that. So maybe the insurance companies say. Okay, look, we'll cut you a big break on your cyber insurance if you internalize some of this, your data storage, and take this offline. Speaker 4 (22:58) I would hope. You just boxed Speaker 5 (22:59) it Speaker 4 (22:59) in. Speaker 5 (23:00) Yeah. I mean, your risk is Speaker 4 (23:02) somebody has to actually physically come into the plant now to hack it, right? Speaker 5 (23:05) Right. It's completely disconnected from the internet. Again, there's no reason for it to be connected anyway. Speaker 4 (23:10) Or be close enough to Bluetooth or Wi-Fi in. I mean, you'd have to be close, right? So, I mean, it's a physical proximity. It Speaker 5 (23:15) can Speaker 4 (23:15) still Speaker 5 (23:15) happen, but the likelihood is far less. Speaker 4 (23:17) But compared to being exposed to the world? Well, most of these hackers are coming from probably Asia and Russia. They Speaker 5 (23:23) can Speaker 4 (23:23) come from anywhere now. Speaker 5 (23:24) Yeah. So you eliminate all that. I agree. So it's Speaker 4 (23:29) not Speaker 5 (23:29) 100%, but it's probably 99.9. Speaker 4 (23:31) So when I wrote operational, you know, AI operational governance, you know, and there's 500 pages in there. But one of the biggest points I make is if you have the ability to, take it offline. Yeah. Speaker 4 (23:47) If you're in one of the highly regulated industries, whether it's financial, health, law, anything that's data sensitive where you're dealing with that personally identifiable information that you need to scrub, that you need to be careful of, that there is significant repercussions. I mean, I'm talking regulatory consequences through the attorney general offices and the state levels and the regulatory agencies overseeing this. I'm talking civil suits possibly in some states. I've been reviewing all these laws. It's consequential. So why would you want to take that risk? Speaker 4 (24:23) Now, when you're dealing with Azure and you're dealing with AWS, they're going to give you the assurances. They're going to tell you, look, it's safe. We've done all these measures. And yeah, that worked. And that gave me comfort in feeling very cozy up until about a year ago. Yeah, right. And slowly, that's kind of eroded. And with quantum coming around the corner, it really makes you. And a lot of the. Speaker 4 (24:45) The folks on the other side are saying, well, we've got to fight fire with fire. I don't agree. We've got to use this same technology to be able to protect ourselves from the technology that's trying to hack in. And if we don't, then we're way behind. Speaker 4 (24:58) It's kind of the new world we're living in, and it's obviously creating a whole new demand for cybersecurity again. Oh, yeah. Because this isn't the cybersecurity that we're used to, right? Yeah. So if you have the ability to take your system offline, you have the ability to be able to buy your GPUs, what you need for internally, and then be able to train and take open source models, and you have the talent that can do that for you. AWS, we talked about that. We talked about Microsoft, right? Where they'll come in and they'll build it. They'll build it for you. Yeah. And then they're going to give you their engineers. So there is solutions out there. I'm sure they're not cheap. Speaker 5 (25:35) Well, that's Speaker 4 (25:36) the thing. They're not cheap. As they Speaker 5 (25:38) become more plentiful and more popular, the cost should come down. Speaker 4 (25:45) Yeah. Maybe, maybe not. You know, and they also have systems out there now that I've seen, Perry, that, you know, as a homeowner, if you want to have a data center, basically. Speaker 5 (25:52) I've seen that. Have you seen that? Yeah. You Speaker 4 (25:54) can have a mini data center Speaker 5 (25:55) attached to your. I think you sent us a link to that. Speaker 4 (25:56) Yeah. To your house. I haven't looked into it any further. Maybe I'll look into it again here sometime over the next month again, if it crosses my mind again. Speaker 5 (26:07) I never heard that phrase before. Speaker 4 (26:12) That's a data center. Yeah, no, but it's a little mini data center that uses your personal electricity. Speaker 5 (26:17) Yeah. Speaker 4 (26:17) And you're reimbursed and you're actually paid to have it on site at your place. Oh, and then you sell the computing power back. And you sell the computing Speaker 5 (26:24) power back because, mind you, it doesn't. It Speaker 4 (26:27) might have Speaker 5 (26:27) been something else we talked about. Right. Speaker 4 (26:28) It doesn't matter where the computing power is coming from. Right. It just needs to be able to draw into the ability with the chips that are needed. Speaker 5 (26:37) Interesting. Speaker 4 (26:38) Models that are trained, right? Yeah. So. Speaker 4 (26:42) That's also another way to minimize footprints if everybody was regulated to have to do that, right? But now think about the trade-off. Let's say that if instead of building these, and I'm just speculating, you know, and we can get into this in the fifth segment over, you know, I've only had a couple sips of bourbon and I'm not there yet, but I will be. But... Speaker 5 (27:00) Libricity. Speaker 4 (27:02) Yeah, right? Libricity's not kicked in yet, but I'm still semi-clear off my coffees this morning. I would say... If every house and every business had the data center built in and then think about it, at least let's talk about the houses, right? And in exchange for doing that, they paid the difference in your electric bill, right? Maybe even gave you 10 or 20 % as a rent. Speaker 5 (27:30) As an Speaker 4 (27:31) inconvenience, rental payment, whatever you want to call it, right? So now your electric bill goes down 20%. Speaker 4 (27:39) And you get to utilize as much of that GPU as you want up to a certain extent, you know? Yeah. Now, you can't sit there and start crypto mining, which, you know, people will be like, yeah, I got this. I know I'm doing mine. Speaker 5 (27:52) This Speaker 4 (27:52) is going to be all my GPU. Yeah. I know I'm using my GPU time. Right? But I'm talking like the normal GPU you get kind of governed on, you know, for the $20, you know, $100 subscription that you pay every month for chat GPT or, you know. Right. Gus is getting himself comfortable. I know he's like, yeah, not for this AI talk. Speaker 5 (28:13) I'm putting myself in for the long haul here. Speaker 4 (28:17) But, you know, I think we're going to continue this conversation and I think it's interesting. And so what I'm going to leave our listeners with is a cool term that is the other side of the argument for what is being said right now. And that is, are these... executives truly concerned? Did they really see something that really is saying to them, whoa, we need to slow down. We need to have a kill switch. We need to control this if we still can. And there's some saying that cat might be out of the bag. It might be too late. But it's called regulatory capture. Speaker 4 (28:55) When I come back, I will let our listeners know what regulatory capture is. And that's the flip side of this coin. I am riveted. From both sides now, brother. We'll be right back after this. Speaker 3 (29:30) We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. If you've heard of us, it's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of counsel who treat information as a strategic asset, not a commodity. Dockatdaily.ai. The quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. Speaker 4 (30:13) And we are back in the Bourbon Studios with the dapper and the one and only Mr. Lou Lubricity himself. What's Speaker 5 (30:19) up, Speaker 4 (30:19) Mitch? Cheers, brother. Everything's good. We were just getting caught up and reflecting a little bit on our Iron City distilling trip. I mean, that was, you know. Just seeing it for the first times ourself, it was so impressive, right? It was like being in the coolest amusement park as a kid, right? Sure, sure. Speaker 6 (30:38) Well, that's what it was. It was like Kenny Wood for adults. Right? Yeah. There's a slight chance I may have drank one too many Iron Cities that night, but it's a slight chance. But you had a ride, so it doesn't matter. I did have a driver, so. That's responsible drinking. I did hit lubricity, and I stayed away from Assholeville. So I'm going to call it a good night. great night yes no doubt yeah i Speaker 4 (31:01) i held off having my really strong drink until we got to the duquesne club and yeah and then i got the old-fashioned and that was uh that hit the spot and i'm telling you what i hit that bed and i did not wake up did you Speaker 5 (31:13) see the poor michelle gave me i ordered a double whistle pig piggyback that's one of my favorites And it's on our list. Where's that on our list? Six. Speaker 4 (31:22) It is. Right there. Oh, it is. Number six. Speaker 5 (31:26) The old 9.6. So it's funny. You go to a bar now. You start scanning the shelves. Like, what do I want? Oh, I'll have that. Yeah, Speaker 4 (31:31) right? Speaker 5 (31:32) So I was like, oh, I'll make it a double. It was a glass like this. It was filled to the top. I was like, that's like a quadruple. Drank the whole thing, though. Speaker 4 (31:41) You're staying overnight, sir. I know I got your room. I Speaker 5 (31:43) slept Speaker 4 (31:43) like a baby. Speaker 5 (31:44) I don't Speaker 4 (31:46) even Speaker 5 (31:46) know what that cost. Speaker 6 (31:47) I didn't Speaker 5 (31:48) even look at the thing. Speaker 6 (31:49) It's just a, it's probably a rounding air, Perry. Yeah. Speaker 5 (31:53) No, not the shot. I mean the room. Speaker 6 (31:55) Same Speaker 5 (31:55) thing. Speaker 4 (31:57) Anyway, Speaker 5 (31:58) it was so much fun. It was so much fun. It was such an awesome night. Like I Speaker 4 (32:01) said, you know, that was the hospitality of everybody down there from Peter to Matt to, you know, Austin to. To everybody, you know, was it Chris that was giving the tours as well? It was Speaker 6 (32:13) Chris. Speaker 4 (32:13) Oh, he was, I didn't meet him. He was awesome. Yeah, he was awesome. You know, Matt's written Speaker 5 (32:18) three or four books. I know. I'm going to have to leave one of those and try to check them out. If Speaker 4 (32:23) you're looking for a good how to make bourbon and beer, I mean, the guy is. He's an artist. His background is pretty much covered. You know, he started in wine, got into beer, got in, and now is clearly doing very well in the whiskey business and about to get into the bourbon business as well. Yeah. You know, Speaker 6 (32:40) it's interesting, Perry, you mentioned about going to the bar and you were kind of perusing. I find myself now when I go in instead of I've become I don't want to say a bourbon snob. Speaker 5 (32:53) Oh, Speaker 6 (32:53) that's of the same one. I've come around to know what I like. I'm going to say what I like more, what I like less, because I like most of them. So I'm learning about all these bourbons, and it's been a fun experience. It has. It has been Speaker 5 (33:07) for me, too. Yeah, it's led to some Speaker 6 (33:08) long next mornings, but it's worth the lift, I think. You Speaker 4 (33:14) know what, though? I'm going to have to build a Rickhouse like Iron City Distilling just for our empty bottles. Speaker 4 (33:21) I'm not eating it, though. I'm not doing that. What you should do is take Speaker 5 (33:25) your recycling bin and put it out in front of Mike's house or something. I don't know, that guy. Yeah, right. That's just one week. Put it in front of Badshaw's house. Speaker 6 (33:39) We've got to find another distillery or somewhere. We've had Speaker 4 (33:43) people reaching out, and that's what I sent you guys. I think the really cool thing from a very former... He just happened to reach out, and I think I sent it to you guys in the text chain, from the Cuyahoga historical train out in Cleveland. Oh, Speaker 5 (33:56) yeah. Speaker 4 (33:56) That's right. A 1940-ish era train, and everything is to the era. I'm talking from the uniforms to the trains to everything, right? So they have a bourbon and cigar car. Wow. And he works on it, and it's an open-air car. They have a bartender in there, and it looks really cool. It'd be something that we could maybe film and probably invite our closest. Speaker 6 (34:22) Is Speaker 4 (34:23) that seasonal? You said it's open air. Is that seasonal? It's spring and summer, so we're too far along this year, but he said possibly an extra he can arrange that since he's balling. That's what he's doing in his retirement now. He was in the oil and gas industry with me back in the day when we were humming and drumming back in the Marcellus shale boom. Speaker 5 (34:42) That's cool. That would be epic. I Speaker 4 (34:45) think that would be really cool. Epic. Are we allowed to say that when Eric's not here? Since he's in a different time zone, we can. That's right. By the time he watches this. Where is our smaller brother this week? He's in Seattle. Is he? Yeah. Yeah, Speaker 5 (35:00) a Speaker 4 (35:00) good friend of his. Speaker 5 (35:00) Yeah, he's honoring a Speaker 4