Baby Jane, Big Headlines & the Christmas Tree Capital: Kevin Musser Joins the Table

Bourbon with Brad

Brad dives into major AI developments including Meta's $17.2B settlement with 29 states over child safety concerns, a Chinese farmer's crop loss due

Key takeaways

• Meta's $17.2B settlement marks a pivotal moment in tech accountability, with funds directed toward child safety advocacy rather than direct victim compensation.
• AI's real-world consequences are escalating—ranging from legal liability to life-altering farming decisions based on flawed AI advice.

Main topics

• Meta's child safety settlement
• AI risks in agriculture

Notable quotes

"It feels like that. I think a lot of people get rich off of it." – On the parallels between tobacco lawsuits and current tech settlements.

Conclusion

The episode blends urgent tech policy updates with a grounded look at

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:01) Welcome to Bourbon with Brad. Speaker 2 (0:06) The views and opinions shared on the Bourbon with Brad podcast are our own and those of our guests. Nothing we discuss should be taken as financial, legal, business, or gambling advice. Don't make investment, business, or betting decisions based on our conversations as you should always talk to a qualified professional. Always drink responsibly, never drink and drive, and only consume alcohol if you are of legal drinking age. Speaker 3 (0:34) DACA Daily.ai is not built for everyone. It's built for the counsel who already knows that speed, precision, and early intelligence win cases, shape strategy, and protect the enterprise. We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. If you've heard of us, it's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. Speaker 3 (1:10) If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of counsel who treat information as a strategic asset, not a commodity. Dockaddaily.ai, the quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. And Speaker 4 (1:34) we are back in the bourbon studios in Indiana, PA. We got an amazing guest tonight, a longtime friend, neighbor. Speaker 4 (1:45) Indiana County legend. Speaker 5 (1:48) Yeah. Yeah. Kevin's like, what? Yeah. Speaker 4 (1:50) What? Speaker 5 (1:51) Yeah. Speaker 4 (1:52) Can't wait. Speaker 5 (1:53) Very Speaker 4 (1:53) well-known name. Oh, can't wait. Can't wait. I'm so excited. You know, this is, I'm working on a little bit of sleep, but this has got me all pumped up. So pumped up. Speaker 5 (2:02) The Speaker 4 (2:02) bourbon's not bad. Speaker 5 (2:03) I don't know how you do it. I'm exhausted. I played golf today and it like dropped those guys off. beat it over here. That was your first mistake playing golf. I Speaker 4 (2:10) need a Speaker 5 (2:10) nap. I need a nap. I have not missed that game. Is this segment five yet? That's the first I've played probably in a month and a half. How'd you play? Decent. Yeah, I shot an 85. That's pretty good for me. Yeah, it's respectable. Yeah. First foot's a nice course too. Speaker 4 (2:29) It's a nice track, you know? It Speaker 5 (2:31) is pretty nice, yeah. They had punched the greens on the front nine, so they were a little... rough. They needed mode. Back down greens were in really nice shape though. Very cool. Yeah, it was fun. Good company. We had a good time. That's what it's all about. Speaker 4 (2:44) That's the only thing it's about. I sent you guys the headlines today and I tried to wait as long through the day as possible to do the headlines because they change all the time and sure enough, since I sent them to you, there's the biggest headline that happened. And so I'm just going to start with that, that you guys haven't even seen, but maybe you have online, though. But Meta settled their state child safety claims for $18 billion. Oh. And mind you, those— This was the lawsuit Speaker 5 (3:17) about Meta suggesting to these young kids that they hurt themselves and stuff like that. Speaker 4 (3:23) Well, it's them influencing, you know, the— You know, through the algorithms have been, you know, that it's addicting, it's influencing, you know, it's not safe. There's not safety measures in place. I mean, of course, the lawyers, you know, did it very well as far as, you know, drafting it up and the experts too. And they actually started a week of trials out in California. And I think that's what was leading to it. And they were asking for $1.4 trillion in damages. So clearly a settlement. from Meta's eyes, probably made a lot of sense. But I think the number was around $16.7 or $8 billion that they settled for with the 29 states that were a part of all the AGs. And we've been tracking that on Docket Daily, so I've read every one of those news releases for the Attorney General's office. But they, of course, are going to disperse that out there. But what they're using the proceeds mostly for It's not the victims, but it's for advocacy and learning going forward to make sure that the safety measures are in place. And, of course, a big chunk of it's going to the attorneys that were representing the class action. Speaker 5 (4:29) It reminds me of the – Actually, Speaker 4 (4:32) and I misspoke. It's not a class action. This was brought by the attorney general's offices. So this is actually an altruistic case. It Speaker 5 (4:39) reminds me of the tobacco lawsuits from the 80s or early 90s where they – They sued for billions, and the money was to go to education and teaching people about the hazards of smoking, et cetera, et cetera. Yeah, right. Well, Speaker 4 (4:54) it feels like that. I Speaker 5 (4:56) think a lot of people get rich off of it. Speaker 4 (4:57) Yeah, but this was different. This was spurred on. And, of course, you can guess which 29 states' attorney generals were a part of it. It seems it was down political lines. I'm not going to comment one way or the other. Everything is these days. But, you know, it was, you know, those that wanted to come at and they had a very legitimate claim here. I mean, obviously, when it comes to child safety, there's nothing more important. So we know about the lawsuit that's still pending out there, you know, with the chat GPT and the suicide that that's, you know, that's horrific. So but, you know, that was the headline between two hours, you know, since I sent you guys the headlines. And now that one snuck through. Speaker 5 (5:43) It's amazing it could sneak through because it is a big one. Speaker 4 (5:45) Well, it Speaker 5 (5:46) didn't sneak through. Speaker 4 (5:49) It's just that big. So good for Meta. I'm sure it's going to help them as far as moving forward. And you hope these companies learn from their mistakes. Speaker 4 (6:09) Meta, Facebook. Yeah, and a lot of them are taking initiative. Just like we were talking about them bringing philosophers and Christian leaders in. I mean, they're taking initiatives to make it more safe, and they brought in experts in the areas of child safety too. So they really are taking steps amongst the massive upheaval of race that's going on. I can't only imagine what it's like to be in one of the five top, you know. The mango. The mangoes, yeah. Yeah, if you're inside of that buzzsaw right now, it's got to be just crazy, you Speaker 5 (6:45) know? Well, I mean, I'm sure they're smart enough to realize that, first of all, they have to succeed in the court of public opinion. And their business is heavily reliant on the public and people to support it. And they don't want to damage that. So I'm sure they're on notice. Speaker 4 (7:08) Now, the other major headline today was NVIDIA warns that they're going to have to raise prices 15 % on the chips. Speaker 4 (7:16) Shocker. Happened to come up with that just before they released earnings today, right? Seems to be strategically placed. It was well placed. I don't think this is where it ends, you know? No, we know that. And by the way, I also read something afterwards where Jensen said the microchips are going to become like the new gold and silver that you can trade. And he just raised $500 billion or $500 million or whatever. It's all around in here anymore. Like a currency? Well, kind of like a commodity. Okay. And you can see the GPUs, but it's going to be a short commodity. So unlike silver and gold that lasts forever, this is like we were talking about on the group chat. It's a three to five year window, right? But even if they... But depending on how they set it up now, do you have a stake in the company that keeps on replenishing it, right? Speaker 4 (8:09) All those terms will be interesting to see how that plays out, right? Speaker 5 (8:12) If they start using space as a place to put the data centers, how does that change that equation? I mean, I guess the depreciation on the chips would still be the same, but is it... It'd Speaker 6 (8:23) still be the same. Speaker 5 (8:23) But would you still have the same overhead to... It might be higher, actually, to go in and replace the chips because now you've got to go up there and do it. Right? Yeah. Speaker 4 (8:44) True. We'll get into that in the fourth or fifth segment. It's Speaker 5 (8:46) going Speaker 4 (8:46) to be interesting. If land becomes an issue, if chips become an issue. Water. Well, all that stuff, right? So communities backfiring, and Governor Shapiro's executive order here in Pennsylvania is a prime example of how states, we were just talking about Governor Abbott, basically saying down in Texas. Speaker 4 (9:06) data centers, you got to solve the issue with the residents. This isn't a political issue, one side or the other, you got to figure this out so that the local communities are supporting what you want to do, you know, so I think that was well said. And it's what it comes down to, if not, if you're not making everybody happy, that has to be, you know, be a neighbor and deal with this, then, then the solution is going to get rejected every time, you know, nobody's going to come in. Speaker 4 (9:30) So the other major headline today is, and I want to kind of incorporate it with our guests too, because, you know, we got a couple of things happening here, you know, and we'll get into that too, Kev, is in the farmlands. Speaker 4 (9:46) One farmer happened to use chat GPT. And I won't say chat GPT. He happened to use a, you know, a model, chat GPT-like model to find out the best way to use pesticides. Or I guess it was weed, you know, using a best chemical formulation for weeds on his crops. And he had a, he had a sesame crop. Does that make sense? Speaker 4 (10:15) Yeah, so I guess that's a broadleaf-type plant, and this pesticide that usually kills weeds is a broadleaf. Speaker 3 (10:24) Herbicide, Speaker 4 (10:25) yeah, I guess, yeah. Killed not only the weeds, but ended up killing 25 acres of his plant. Oh. Oh. And so, you know, of course. Was this yours? Yeah. Speaker 5 (10:40) Yeah. Speaker 4 (10:49) Oh, my. Well, it was a prime example of using general AI for a very specific purpose, right? So is Speaker 5 (10:55) there a lawsuit pending there? I don't think there Speaker 4 (10:57) is because I think all the general LLMs disclose. Yeah, yeah. They're not holding themselves out to be experts in anything. you get reliant on this stuff and then they come across so convincingly, you figure they got to know what they're talking about. I mean, they're talking about broad leaf. I got, I got that, you know, and this is a, this is a clean way to go. Let's, let's do it. You know? Yeah. Speaker 5 (11:18) No, Speaker 4 (11:18) it wasn't necessarily a clean way. I mean, the, the words so long that they used it, that the, it was overseas too, Kev. It was, yeah. So the translation doesn't come across. It even gets a few extra letters. And I have a hard time just pronouncing regular words, so there ain't no way I'm even tackling this one. Is that the little dots Speaker 5 (11:40) over Speaker 4 (11:41) the Speaker 5 (11:41) ears? Speaker 4 (11:42) Yeah, Speaker 5 (11:42) no, this Speaker 4 (11:42) has just had a lot of words that just sounded like it was repeating itself inside the word. Yeah, right? So he kills his old crop and basically said, look, there needs to be a specific LOM, an AI that is trained. specifically for farming and nurseries, you know, and I think that'd be something that we can discuss too, because I think it would be awesome to have something that is, you know, with industry knowledge and that's where it comes, you know, and how do you get industry knowledge? You get something that's specific to it and, you know, and goes from there. So yeah, that's a hard lesson learned, you know. Can you give me some Speaker 5 (12:17) plants that the deer won't eat? Yeah, right. Stuff like that. I'll Speaker 4 (12:22) be coming to see you, Kevin, anyway. Speaker 4 (12:26) Another headline, the FDA just opened comments. This is a DACA Daily headline on generative AI medical devices as to how they should be operating and dealing with it. So I've continually said that AI and medical is going to be the biggest thing that we're going to see the most amazing results. In fact, there was another headline that I just read today that I just took a snapshot. I didn't even have a chance to send it to the group chat. It was on Parkinson's disease. Speaker 5 (12:54) And they've... I read something about that. Speaker 4 (12:56) And I think they've been able to now figure out that it's actually a gut issue. It's not really a brain issue. It's a gut issue and it's a deficiency of vitamin B. Really? Yeah. It's that simple. So now Speaker 5 (13:11) they're saying... You're used as rich in B12, just saying. Speaker 4 (13:17) Well, now they're saying. I learned this when I was brewing. Yeah, yeah. Now they're saying it may be as simple as an oral, you know, combination of B supplements that would quickly rectify this. Speaker 5 (13:29) I did not read that. I read that they were making some major breakthroughs on Parkinson's and also I thought I read also on Speaker 4 (13:37) Alzheimer's. Yeah. So when they asked Michael J. Fox for comments today, he was just furiously shaking his head. Oh, fuck. Speaker 4 (13:46) You fucking serious? It's that simple? Speaker 5 (13:50) I'm Speaker 4 (13:50) not even Speaker 5 (13:51) going to. That's where the crickets will come in on the video, buddy. I know, right? Speaker 4 (14:01) It's going to be hard to stop that. It's reflexes now, boys. As everybody Speaker 5 (14:10) in the studio moves Speaker 4 (14:12) away from the Speaker 5 (14:13) inevitable lightning strike that's coming. Speaker 5 (14:18) It's been nice telling you, Brad. Yeah, thank you. Speaker 4 (14:22) It's the first time I shut down the show in the first episode. Trust me, that was my internal joke for you boys. I know I'm cutting that shit. Speaker 5 (14:34) But he has been a big advocate for trying to find a cure. And he's a big name, obviously. Hopefully they do. I got his autograph. It Speaker 4 (14:43) looks like mine. Speaker 4 (14:52) Have Speaker 5 (14:52) you Speaker 6 (14:52) seen my handwriting? Speaker 5 (14:54) My handwriting's pretty Speaker 4 (14:55) bad. It changes every time. I swear to God, you've got to try to be an autograph expert with Michael J. Fox. Speaker 8 (15:01) Not sure Speaker 4 (15:06) I can certify that one. Speaker 4 (15:11) So moving on. Speaker 5 (15:14) We're going to come back from that inevitable edit that's about to take place. I'm going to try to come back not so red this time. Take a deep breath. So that would be awesome if they came up with a cure for that and some other, you know, I mean, it's. All right, calm me down one more time. Speaker 5 (15:36) Oh, shit. All right. I agree. The medical advances. So here's the thing. Not only are they going to be tremendous, but they're going to be so well received because everybody is going to be excited to see the advances that they can make. Everybody. It benefits Speaker 4 (15:52) everybody. And that's what I've always said. So I think I've been a big proponent of categorizing what we're going to spend all the data center GPUs on. Medical, number one. Speaker 5 (16:02) Military. Speaker 4 (16:04) You know, police enforcement officers to save lives as far as protecting those that have to put their lives at risk, you know, and then research and development through the educational system to figure out what's best in their interest. Right. Aiming beyond that, I think a business should take on to its own terms. You can now get data center, little mini data centers brought into your company. AWS, we talked about in the headlines a couple months ago. They'll plop them right down there. Speaker 5 (16:29) Well, we talked a couple weeks ago about the pending legislation where they have to spend money. They're going to have to pay a fee, and then that money is going to be used to help re-educate. You're talking about the excise tax? Yeah, they were talking about all Speaker 4 (16:43) the LLMs. Yeah, to help Speaker 5 (16:44) with what jobs might be just jobs. Well, and that's the replacement of jobs. So that's just the Speaker 4 (16:47) replacement of jobs. And that's a whole different category of stuff that we've got to worry about, right? Speaker 4 (16:56) And the actual replacement of jobs, especially as it gets more advanced and more advanced, becomes more real as to what we're going to really look at in that spectrum. But, I mean, it's here to stay, Speaker 5 (17:07) right? I mean, this isn't going to just everybody's going to go, eh, it's a bad idea. Let's move on to something else. I mean, it's not going to Speaker 4 (17:14) happen. If it goes away now, it would be the biggest collapse that we ever saw of anything. Because I think it's... Gotten so built up. We're talking the Fortune 5000 companies have all intertwined into their working system. So they would have to unwind all that. Speaker 5 (17:28) It's Speaker 4 (17:28) not going to happen. It just isn't going to happen. And not only that, but you're talking about billions of people that now are relying on chat GPT, Claude, Copilot, Gemini, Meta, Speaker 5 (17:38) Brock. It's part of our society just for good. It Speaker 4 (17:45) is. It is whether we like it or not. I think we just need to be more responsible how we're going to build it. It just can't be these very impactful, community impactful systems that are. coming into our neighborhoods without taking care of the neighborhoods that they're coming into, right? That's been your position all along. Speaker 5 (18:02) It has been. I mean, guardrails. Well, Speaker 4 (18:06) it is. Clearly, it's very profitable. The other thing that Claude talked about that's going through in the pre-IPO, they're talking about a $2 trillion kind of pre-valuation and possibly what's going to come out, possibly, in speculation. This isn't verified yet. is that the potential revenue, that anthropic alone, is $30 trillion. That's crazy. That's a ridiculous number. So when they're making that much money, don't leave everybody at the wayside in a desert land, you know? Speaker 4 (18:45) Well, I think it's irresponsible. I think it is too. For them to do that. So I do want to get back when we talk about responsibility as I'm floating through our headlines today that have been ever-changing. Speaker 5 (18:59) What's the world? Okay, so I'm sitting here thinking $30 trillion. What's the world GDP? Do you know? If anybody knows, it would be Eric. Is it $30 trillion? Speaker 5 (19:13) I mean, ours is what? Speaker 4 (19:15) Four? Oh, it's 12. I know our deficit is 40 trillion. Yeah. Can we just wipe that out? How about we start with that, huh? Let's just have the data centers wipe out our deficit and we'll start from that. I propose that tomorrow and tomorrow's Speaker 5 (19:28) bill, right? I mean, 30 trillion, like just the entire world produce that much revenue. Speaker 4 (19:34) There Speaker 6 (19:34) you Speaker 5 (19:37) go, Luigi. Mr. Lubricity himself is in the house. The U.S. Oh, okay. So it's not that big. Okay, never mind. I rescind my comment. Speaker 4 (19:47) So I want to share one more of the headlines that I thought were worthy because I see my time's ticking away, and I know I wasted it on a few internal jokes that we had Speaker 5 (19:57) to cut out. We're going to end up with like four minutes of fucking content. I Speaker 4 (20:02) know. It's Speaker 5 (20:03) going Speaker 4 (20:03) to be like the fifth segment the other week. Yeah. Sushi chef. We're back. Speaker 6 (20:06) And Speaker 5 (20:06) we're gone. Speaker 5 (20:09) And we're back. I almost got here to spit out the first segment. Hey, don't waste that. That's alcohol abuse. That's alcohol abuse if you spit it out. Again, there it goes. That's his secret. That's how he outdrinks all of us. He spits it all out. Oh, Speaker 4 (20:29) I Speaker 5 (20:29) see that. He's Speaker 4 (20:29) a Speaker 5 (20:29) spitter, not Speaker 4 (20:30) a swaller. Speaker 5 (20:35) I hear you. How about Sabs last week? She goes, oh, he's great. Can we take him with us? We're like, no, he's ours. You can't have him. She's Speaker 4 (20:45) like, I just want to put him in my pocket. I figured I was going to see Don in Nashville. He'd be like, I'm here. Where's Eric? Let me get him. I was like, he's ours. You can't have him. We were going to save him for later. Speaker 5 (21:08) And we can't. Cheers, brother. You told us your last headline, but we can't end the segment without. So we can't land on that. Speaker 4 (21:13) We Speaker 6 (21:13) can't Speaker 5 (21:14) end this segment without talking and thanking those two again. For all the serious people that want to listen to my headlines, I just ruined them Speaker 4 (21:21) all. Speaker 4 (21:25) Oh, man. All right. Well, so there's a lab and I've been talking about AI imaging and how that's so incredible. So when you train all you train MRIs, you train X-rays now that are all digital CAT scans on all these different levels of data and images. This group, this group trained 23 million. Speaker 4 (21:54) and now have verifiable proof so that when it gives, and one of the biggest things in the AI governance world is showing that you have proof. Why? Why is it happening? And show me the steps and the verification and the verifiable proof. Well, after training on 23 million images, they're now able to provide exactly the explanation as to how it came to that conclusion when it's giving a result. So this, again, is in testing phases. It's in a lab out of one of the top universities. I think it's awesome. It's a cool thing that's happening there. Now, I will say this, and I want to leave one more quick headline. You have time. I know. Speaker 5 (22:37) I fucked up the time. Speaker 4 (22:38) I think I still have time. You have about seven minutes. Awesome. So there's one more quick headline I want to get in. It talks about this. Speaker 4 (22:47) It's called Guidelight AI Standards. I never heard it before until this headline, but apparently this is a new place or maybe not a new place. Maybe it's a reputable place. But they went and rated all five of the top mangoes as to whether or not the criteria of logging, you know, we're talking about that black box, you know, can we determine what's going on really behind the scenes? And, you know, all of these, you know, tech executives that went to... the federal government and said, we need to have this emergency break in case, you know, especially with all the leakage we've had from the frontier labs of them getting out, breaking into the internet and breaking into other things that we heard about the, you know, the horror story with hugging face, all that stuff. What are your, what is your situation really like at, at, at home at the corporate level? Right? Well, they said, open AI. has the highest ranking, three out of five, which I wouldn't say is really high. It's like you're 60 % of, you know, I even knew that number. I didn't have to go to CMU. It is 60%, correct? Yeah, I know, right? Perry had to verify that in his calculator. Speaker 5 (24:02) No, no. No, I have a Speaker 4 (24:04) pretty good math. No, no. Speaker 5 (24:06) It's 60%. You Speaker 4 (24:07) got that astrophotography going. That's right. You got to zoom in. It's all about Uranus. It is. The planet. The planet. In anthropic, it might have had the lowest. They had no formal containment plans. Zero. So, you know, it's one thing to say it. So they're doing like performance ratings? Well, this is purportedly what this company was doing. Now, did they get true access to really have? I mean, I have all these questions. I'm looking at both sides. Did they really get true access or did they just kind of get the brush off from a communications person that just said, yeah, we have this and this? And they're like, yeah, that's not. What was the detailed study? That's what I want to know, first of all. We know Anthropix has been a very big proponent from day one about all this stuff. Speaker 5 (25:00) In Speaker 4 (25:00) fact, I think that's what's driven its platform to be where it's at beyond the fact that it's delivered one of the most amazing products that's ever been out there. You talk about Fable 5. That has been craziest last week. We'll get into that in the second, third segment. Oh, whatever. Somewhere down. One of Speaker 5 (25:15) them. Yeah. But Speaker 4 (25:17) anyways, that's the headlines. They're moving. They probably even changed since I've sat here and enjoyed a bourbon. Speaker 5 (25:23) Probably Speaker 4 (25:23) have. Yeah. Speaker 5 (25:25) Cut a few jokes. I just wanted to say, you know, I still think there's still a lot of chatter about last week's show with County Fair. Yeah, can Speaker 4 (25:36) we not just do a back shout out and say our... And I haven't even told the county fair folks yet. It's been so busy, you know, and I didn't have a chance to catch up with them either because of the whole flight plans. It was just a mess, you know, but yeah, that day that dropped last Monday was our biggest day. It was. On Spotify, at least, you know, we had. Not even close. Yeah, not even close. I mean, we went from the highest day ever on Spotify from 1141 hours watch to 1800 almost. Yeah, Speaker 5 (26:06) it Speaker 4 (26:07) was Speaker 5 (26:07) just over 18. Yeah, it was crazy, right? Yeah, it Speaker 4 (26:09) was Speaker 5 (26:09) awesome. Speaker 4 (26:10) And I didn't even send you guys the next day, but the next day followed up with like $1,100. It was crazy, right? Speaker 5 (26:16) Yeah, and we could, yeah, that Speaker 4 (26:17) was awesome. The music and they sounded awesome. They sounded awesome. It Speaker 5 (26:21) was Speaker 4 (26:21) such Speaker 5 (26:21) a different experience tonight, and they did. They sounded like to just sit down and start playing. Did you auto-tune on those guys? Because I feel like you don't do that with me, you know? I don't even know. I don't Speaker 4 (26:32) have Speaker 6 (26:32) on it. Speaker 5 (26:32) I know you don't. There was some tricky mixing there to cut the guitar Speaker 6 (26:37) back because it was with the mic on the guitar. With the mic on the guitar, yeah. So we pulled that way Speaker 5 (26:42) back, but I used the individual for the first time since we bought this mixer. I used the individual track so I could boost her and pull him back and pull the guitar down, and it worked out pretty good. Speaker 4 (26:52) No, she does have like- I have a Speaker 5 (26:53) Futures of Music picture, I'm just saying. Speaker 4 (26:55) You know, I'm going to leave this here. Cheryl Crow was playing Monday night at that conference. Is that? Oh, really? Wow. Yeah, one of the big companies, Legora, brought them in, and I'm like, I wish I could stick around. Yeah. I got to get some sleep, though. That didn't happen. Did you sleep in the airport? Speaker 5 (27:12) You slept in the airport on the way down, right? In Chicago? Didn't you say you slept in the airport in Chicago? I didn't sleep. I just sat up like a Speaker 4 (27:18) freaking- Speaker 5 (27:20) Like a psycho Speaker 4 (27:22) in the corner in the dark. How much sleep have you had since Sunday? Just staring down the maintenance folks that are cleaning the Chicago airport. You're like, is this guy all right? I don't think so. He's still bobbing and weaving. Like, you know, a couple of those boys that went 12 rounds of Mike Tyson. I'm just still sitting there. Speaker 5 (27:45) You got to love flight travel. Speaker 4 (27:47) Oh, I love flying. Especially Speaker 5 (27:48) through Chicago. Speaker 4 (27:50) That was great, though. The one thing I realized is my body's not made for running anymore. At least now you know. Well, I knew beforehand. I wish I missed my flight by a lot, not just a little. It's that chance. Speaker 5 (28:04) I Speaker 4 (28:05) better run. Also, it was that close. Speaker 5 (28:07) So the flight out of Pittsburgh was delayed? Speaker 4 (28:09) Yeah, they had mechanical failures. By the time we land, I only had like 25 minutes to get there anyways. If you're on the wrong side of Chicago Airport in O'Hare, I mean, that's, you got to go. And I had to go underneath that lighted bridge where they try to make you feel happy with all those different lights. Oh, yeah. Speaker 5 (28:25) Yeah. Speaker 4 (28:25) I was not happy. The rainbow. I got to be honest. Yeah. Yeah. I know that. I know that. And by the way, when you're trying to run past people that are just in no hurry to get on that. And clearly I was running on the aided thing, you know, whatever they call that going across. Yeah. Yeah. The people mover. Speaker 5 (28:40) With two pegs. See, you know what you need? You need a GoPro that we could have strapped to your head to watch it. That would have fallen off in the first. Speaker 4 (28:53) It was such a shit show, but anyways. When we come back, we're going to be pouring the bread. We're going to be bringing up a great guest, Mr. Kevin Musters in the house. And we will be back right after this. Speaker 3 (29:12) DACA Daily.ai is not built for everyone. Speaker 3 (29:16) It's built for the counsel who already knows that speed, precision, and early intelligence win cases, shape strategy, and protect the enterprise. We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. If you've heard of us, it's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. Speaker 3 (29:47) If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of counsel who treat information as a strategic asset, not a commodity. DocketDaily.ai. The quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. Speaker 4 (30:12) And we are back. And boy, do I got the boys next to me tonight. Got Mr. Kevin Musser in the house. Welcome, brother. Appreciate it. Lou, you're looking awfully dapper. Oh, my goodness. Just another Speaker 6 (30:23) day in paradise. Oh, Speaker 4 (30:25) I tell you what, man. I mean, how are you even fending off the ladies these days, you know? You've Speaker 6 (30:30) been Speaker 4 (30:30) doing the nursing home tour, I heard. I have, yeah. Speaker 6 (30:35) How's Speaker 4 (30:35) that Speaker 6 (30:35) working out? I'm thinking about moving out of my apartment. Actually, I could go into a nursing home right now and I think probably run the place. And there's fringe benefits. Yeah. What is Sylvester Stallone? He's the Tulsa King. I'm going to be the nursing home king. I sent you that article, Speaker 4 (30:51) that 82-year-old that got busted for starting up a sporting betting team. I saw that. At the nursing home. I said, that's going Speaker 6 (30:56) to be you. Speaker 4 (30:56) Oh, no way. No, no. A betting Speaker 6 (30:58) ring? That's my Uncle Joey. Speaker 4 (31:01) That's awesome. Kev, good to see you, man. Welcome, brother. Thank you for having me. For those that don't know, and for all of our Indiana County and surrounding area listeners, they know exactly who's sitting next to me, and that is Kevin Muster. Thank you, brother. You've been a friend. for going on 20 years now. I moved into the neighborhood about seven or eight years, and I know your property value went down a little bit. Speaker 8 (31:24) Ah, we ate cat food. It Speaker 4 (31:27) was a rough spot. Wish there was a noise ordinance. Speaker 5 (31:30) Was Speaker 6 (31:30) that from his laugh or from his music? Speaker 4 (31:34) Yes. Speaker 6 (31:36) His Speaker 4 (31:36) laugh is music, Louie. Although we had competing lawnmowers going on, and I've got to be honest, that's where I want to start. So for those that don't know who Kevin Musser is, the Musser family, the Musser nursery, I mean, that is... that is so ingrained in Indiana County's heritage, right? One of the very first things I saw when I moved to town, coming here for the very first time back in 2001, was welcome to the Christmas tree capital of the world. So in a very big, if not the biggest, and probably the sole reason as to why we were the Christmas tree capital of the world is the Musser Family Nursery. My grandfather started Speaker 7 (32:12) it all, 1928. Speaker 6 (32:14) So please. 1928. You're working on your century Speaker 7 (32:19) bar, sir. Speaker 6 (32:19) You guys are working on your 100-year. That's Speaker 3 (32:21) going Speaker 6 (32:21) to be a first. Speaker 3 (32:21) About a Speaker 6 (32:21) year and a half away from it. We've got to have them. You get a, what do you call the little seedling? You get a seedling. You get a seedling. Yes! I think you do it better than that. We just decorate Speaker 4 (32:32) every tree at the nursery and we just have a party, right? Speaker 7 (32:36) Party, Speaker 4 (32:37) yeah. Right? Yeah. No, tell us how that started and where it went and how you guys got to be. The biggest and how that went down that trail. Speaker 7 (32:47) So my granddad, Fred Musser Sr., started it in 1928, as I said, but it was born actually out of the coal business. He was in the coal business with a partner. They did deep mines, strip mines, and, you know, you had subsidence on the hillside, so got to plant some trees up there. Well, you'd buy them. And he's like, why can't I grow these goddamn things? So he starts growing them, and he's like, why Speaker 5 (33:09) can't I? Hey, we don't curse on our show. Speaker 7 (33:11) I'm just kidding. Speaker 5 (33:12) I'm just fucking Speaker 4 (33:13) with you. You can say whatever you want. He's joking. But we are the only. And I was telling that down in Nashville. We are the only explicit tech podcast out there. Sorry. So he decided Speaker 5 (33:24) he could supply his own trees. Speaker 7 (33:27) Yeah. So he started growing his own trees. Why can't I sell these trees? Speaker 7 (33:34) The business model he took was basically off of Sears and Roebuck. If I can sell the trees, why can't I sell them mail order? Speaker 4 (33:41) So you guys were sending very hot chicks in bras and... Oh, Speaker 3 (33:45) yeah. Speaker 4 (33:47) I mean, that's why you don't think of that catalog and look at the Sears. I don't know. That was the old spank bank before Pornhub. And if we're talking about a Pornhub expert... It wasn't even 30 seconds, Paris. This guy. Speaker 6 (34:01) It's Speaker 5 (34:02) about four Speaker 4 (34:02) minutes. Oh, shit. Oh, those sticky pages. But go on. Speaker 6 (34:10) That's the pine. Brad, Speaker 5 (34:12) that's just a pine sap. That's the pine tar. It's sticky. Speaker 7 (34:18) Clark. Clark. Yeah. But yeah, so he took that model and he said, why can't I send live trees if I can? Dig them properly, pack them properly, get them out in a timely fashion. Here's a business here. Speaker 5 (34:31) And Speaker 7 (34:32) it was. So he started that whole mail order process. Speaker 5 (34:35) In the 20s? Speaker 7 (34:36) Yeah. Wow. We're getting into the 30s now by the time that happened, but still, it was ahead of its time. Right around the Speaker 4 (34:43) ass end of the Great Depression. Yeah, Speaker 7 (34:46) that's awesome. So he did that, and then cut Christmas trees. That was a big thing, too. Back then, you'd just go out in the... damn woods and cut whatever looked like a green something and it was usually a pile of shit and so he's like why can't i have something that it was literally clark Speaker 4 (35:05) griswold it was Speaker 7 (35:05) and worse yeah stump it all and uh so he thought he could do better and he started it with scotch pine and uh revolutionized the christmas tree industry Speaker 4 (35:17) So how do you do that? So, I mean, he started with scotch pine now. And did he start buying land? Did he have the land? Yeah. So he had a Speaker 7 (35:24) little bit of land and that was, but then he started buying up land. So to your point, farmers that were maybe, you know, getting up in age and they didn't have the next succession coming on, nobody was going to take it over from their family, started buying it. Nice. Or maybe they were, you know. Speaker 4 (35:43) Which is great for them. So now you have another business interest that hasn't, you know. Speaker 7 (35:47) Absolutely. So that's where it was born out of. And then, you know, it just snowballed into, you know, bare root seedlings, selling them, bald and burlap, potted plants. And then I think they started the garden center probably around the 1960s. Wow. Kevin, did I Speaker 6 (36:02) read somewhere that you guys plant about 600 acres here in Indiana County? Is that it? Would that be accurate? Speaker 7 (36:08) Yeah, that has waned a little bit over the years. You know, the cut Christmas tree industry especially has gone. It's not what it used to be. It's gone downhill a little bit. I Speaker 4 (36:19) notice you guys are planting more of the fake Christmas trees these days. Yes, Speaker 7 (36:23) and they're doing quite well, actually. Speaker 4 (36:27) You Speaker 7 (36:27) don't have to trim them. Those are the Chinese Speaker 5 (36:32) models. The Speaker 7 (36:33) Chinese you take care of, right? Speaker 4 (36:34) Yeah, they Speaker 3 (36:34) are. Speaker 5 (36:35) No shearing. No fertilizing. All jokes aside, is that what's cut into the cut tree industry? That's definitely part of Speaker 7 (36:45) it. Speaker 7 (36:46) You've got that. Then you've also got... A lot of people just don't put up Christmas trees anymore. Really? Yeah. Where Speaker 4 (36:53) are our Christian supporters out there? If my wife would Speaker 5 (36:57) let me, I'd leave one up all year round. Listen, I get it. I would too. It's Speaker 7 (37:00) a Speaker 5 (37:00) festival. I like the lights. Speaker 7 (37:02) It's the best time of the year. Yeah, I agree. Speaker 4 (37:04) I agree. It's the second Halloween, but yeah. Speaker 3 (37:07) I Speaker 7 (37:07) should have seen that coming. Yeah, right? Not Speaker 4 (37:11) a Halloween tree. Speaker 7 (37:13) It's Halloween's little bench. I'd have a Halloween tree too, though. That's right. Well, why not? They're orange. That's right. So, yeah, that's cut into it. Speaker 6 (37:22) Brad, you probably don't know this, or Eric, because you guys didn't grow up around here, but Perry and Kevin and I did. There was our representative for Indiana County was first it was Queen Evergreen, right? Right. And it was because we were the Christmas tree capital of the world. When I was a kid back in the 60s, that's. I mean, she was the hottest woman in Indiana Speaker 5 (37:41) County. Speaker 6 (37:41) I'd just like to say Speaker 7 (37:42) my wife was Queen Evergreen 1991. That's right. That's right. She Speaker 6 (37:47) was. Speaker 4 (37:47) That's how you met, huh? Speaker 2 (37:50) Actually, we Speaker 7 (37:51) met in a bar. It's true, people. Speaker 5 (37:55) That's how the best relationships start. That's right. Because then you know what you're getting, exactly what you're getting. Yeah. Speaker 7 (38:00) Seems like a party girl. That's right. Speaker 7 (38:03) Let's go. Speaker 6 (38:05) So, yeah, that's right. That's a good point. You remember that Perry back in the day. That was the title in Indiana County. Oh, yeah. Green Evergreen. Absolutely. That was the Speaker 5 (38:13) top royal thing you could be awarded in Indiana Speaker 4 (38:17) County. Speaker 5 (38:17) It's a Speaker 4 (38:18) tree topper. That's right. Yeah. It would have been a tree. Yeah. It would have Speaker 5 (38:22) been the tree topper bag. Speaker 4 (38:24) Very cool. I know these jokes are corny, but you know, I get better as we go on. Yeah. Speaker 2 (38:30) The drunker you get, the better you sound. Speaker 4 (38:32) It Speaker 2 (38:32) has to be. We're going Speaker 4 (38:32) to Speaker 2 (38:33) get into the roots. I'm starting at the top. Speaker 6 (38:35) I'm funny. Speaker 4 (38:37) No, that's what I love about you, Kev. You know, and the heritage, you know, you talk about this. And what I love about you guys is, too, is that you've adapted, too. So, you know, you talked about how, you know, Christmas tree demand for fresh cut trees, especially the best cut fresh trees. When it comes out here, you guys got them all. You know, it's not you're not just pegged into one industry. You have them all. I mean, you have a selection of just about everything.