AI Agents Going Rogue? OpenAI Pauses Testing | Guest Rich Cocovich Talks Global Deals, Kiss & Shaq

Bourbon with Brad

The episode opens with a breakdown of recent AI safety headlines, focusing on OpenAI's decision to pause the Astra 6.1 release and halt frontier lab testing after rogue agents reportedly bypassed commands. The

Key takeaways

• OpenAI paused the Astra 6.1 release and halted frontier lab testing after rogue AI agents reportedly bypassed safety commands and triggered nearly 16,000 hits on the UN alone.
• NVIDIA claims to have developed a hardware-level solution to contain rogue AI agents, though hosts question the timing given recent breakthroughs and potential regulatory capture motives.

Main topics

• AI safety and regulatory pauses
• Private equity and global deal-making

Notable quotes

"If you're not fundable, you're never going to get a chance to meet the investors."

Conclusion

Listeners gain a grounded perspective on navigating high-stakes capita

Transcript preview

Speaker 8 (0:01) Welcome to Bourbon with Brad. Speaker 1 (0:06) The views and opinions shared on the Bourbon with Brad podcast are our own and those of our guests. Nothing we discuss should be taken as financial, legal, business, or gambling advice. Don't make investment, business, or betting decisions based on our conversations as you should always talk to a qualified professional. Always drink responsibly, never drink and drive, and only consume alcohol if you are of legal drinking age. Speaker 2 (0:35) DACA Daily.ai is not built for everyone. Speaker 2 (0:38) It's built for the council who already knows that speed, precision, and early intelligence win cases, shape strategy, and protect the enterprise. Speaker 2 (0:51) We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. Speaker 2 (1:02) If you've heard of us. It's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. Speaker 2 (1:10) If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of council who treat information as a strategic asset. Not a commodity. Dock at daily.ai. The quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. Speaker 7 (1:28) It's progressed well. That's what I'm going to say. And I will give details when we get on to that segment. And I've also picked up the reins of Due Force as well. And I've done an API integration to Clio, which is the largest platform that does legal billing. So they claim to have over 400,000 lawyers that are utilizing it for... Good God. That's a lot of lawyers. Yeah, it's a lot of lawyers, right? I mean, it's like a bad joke, right? Yeah. Speaker 7 (2:00) But then with SpaceX and all of a sudden you got a lot of cures, right? Yeah, exactly. Speaker 7 (2:19) And we are back in Indiana County in the Bourbon Studios, and we got a special guest tonight, Mr. Rich Gokovic. Thank you for being here, brother. All the way from Hilton Head Island. Oh, special to me, Pear. You know, that's where my grandfather retired, so it was one of my very first vacation spots. That's a great spot. Yeah, right? Speaker 5 (2:37) I mean, that is one of the... Prettier parts of the East Coast, I think. Speaker 7 (2:42) No, we had to drive. I mean, we couldn't afford to fly. But, you know, we drove down there. And, boy, when you got onto that island, you know, it was amazing, right? Yeah, it was fun. Just so cool. And the golf courses. That's where I fell in love with golf, you know. My grandfather belonged to Harbortown, and he did the Nabisco Tournament back in the day. He marshaled number six. Really? Yeah, it was. I told you, he was a family doctor up in a small town in Wisconsin. When he retired, that was his goal, was to get done. Him and my grandmother just loved golf. I Speaker 5 (3:15) played Harbortown on a video game one time. That's as close as I've ever come to it. Tough Speaker 7 (3:20) course. Not very long. It's got a lot of dog legs in it. Yeah, Speaker 5 (3:24) it's Speaker 7 (3:25) a Speaker 5 (3:25) great area. I'd be curious to see what the ratio of golf course. acreage is to a developed acreage. I Speaker 7 (3:34) think the golf courses outweighed the development back in the day, but now it might be the flip-flop. You know, there's a lot of folks that it's kind of spreading off, you know, into the, you know, I guess they would be the on land, you know, just, but every time I play, Speaker 5 (3:48) every time I've played golf down there and I've played in like Calabash and down near Holden beach and all the big cat courses and all that. And, and it, There's always houses like right on the course. So you're always like, oh, God, if I shank one off to the right, I'm going to be bouncing off somebody's roof, which I did a few times. Yeah, kind of like what we get here. Yeah. I never broke any windows Speaker 7 (4:10) or anything, thank God. That's why you get those bulletproof windows. It works. Speaker 5 (4:14) Yeah. Speaker 7 (4:15) But, you know, the headlines haven't stopped. And so we're going to get into the headlines real quick here. Before we bring Rich on and then we get to talk about what he's doing. And it's as fascinating as it gets. And I can't wait to share it with our viewers. But AI, again, hasn't paused this week. You know, we tried to catch up a little bit last week with what's going on. It's hard to keep up. Yeah. And, you know, it's. Speaker 7 (4:38) And I can't wait to get Rich's perspective on it because he's in the investment business. So especially with these pre-IPOs companies, what are they thinking? Is it the regulatory capture? We talked a little bit today as we're taking my trash can to your dumpster. It was kind of like that Russian. Speaker 5 (4:59) Watching Speaker 7 (4:59) all Speaker 5 (5:00) the garbage blow out of the bag. Speaker 7 (5:02) Whoops, there goes another bag. But to me, it's like. Is there a play here? Because it's so incestuous in the top, you know, mangoes. Oh, you're talking about NVIDIA. Well, then I'm talking to NVIDIA because, you know, and then it comes out that, you know, and that's one of the headlines. I might as well just start with that one. You know, they have a solution all of a sudden. You know, they're saying we have a solution to contain these rogue agents. Well, it's funny that they're now saying this, even though these agents have been rogue before. So clearly that solution wasn't in play before, but it's now here less than a week later. Speaker 7 (5:36) It's almost like they knew. Well, I'm not saying that, but it just feels very soon, you know? And to say they have, and mind you, I mean, the blueprint that I put together, the first part was the NVIDIA chips because they do have a big part of that. The hardware does have a very big part of that. So the skeptic in me always goes, you know, they've taken, you know, NVIDIA has been very smart in how they've invested with these companies. Giving them preference on chips, yes. Maybe a discount on chips. But in return, they're getting shares of stock. So they're kind of all kind of married like a bunch of West Virginia cousins. Well, there goes our West Virginia crowd. But, you know, that's kind of my analogy to it because they're in bed together. Yeah. Oh, Speaker 5 (6:27) there's no doubt about that. What was that story you sent today via text? They filled a truck with sand? Was that like a decoy? Speaker 7 (6:37) Maybe. That's hilarious. Maybe there's some high-level security going on here Speaker 8 (6:42) because Speaker 7 (6:42) those chips are like gold, right? I mean, there isn't anything much more valuable than those little GPUs right now. That's true. So if you're going to have a cargo... truck that says Navidia on the back, he might want to watch out. I don't think I, I thought we were driving that truck. Speaker 5 (7:01) Can you take that fucking graphic off the side of the trailer? Cause I am not going anywhere. I'm not going anywhere in this Speaker 6 (7:07) truck. I had a cousin that drove, he was an over the road truck driver and, uh, he Speaker 5 (7:12) would just whatever, you know, it wasn't any one particular thing. He worked for a freight transfer company and he would take, he used to take truckloads of cigarettes into LA and he's like, He had to carry a gun and like they had special permits and stuff because they, the people find out it's a truckload of cigarettes. They just shoot the driver and take the truck. Oh, Speaker 7 (7:34) it's like the old godfather, you know, or the good fellows, you know? Yeah. That's right. That was cigarettes too. It was, wasn't it? Yeah. Yep. So yeah. And it's, uh, it's interesting to see where it's going. We'll see if they really do have the cure. And the scary part is if they become artificially super intelligent, then is that even safe? But you can't – like Speaker 5 (7:59) how do you – so if nothing bad ever happens – How do we know that it was because of one thing? You know what I mean? You can't prove a negative. It's kind of... Speaker 7 (8:10) Yeah, but there's been... So that kind of leads into the next headline as to why OpenAI just put the brakes on everything this week. Yeah, I saw that. It's actually the next two headlines. They're kind of combined together. You know, they, when they said they've had. Speaker 7 (8:28) of these rogue agents. It's actually been much more that they're reporting now. It's to the tune of almost 16,000. Speaker 7 (8:38) hits on the UN alone. Maybe, maybe it's intentional to look since the UN was meeting and talking about it. I don't Speaker 5 (8:48) know. I mean, again, you know, who knows? That's not skeptic in you. Speaker 7 (8:51) Yeah, it is. It's skeptical, but. But they did pause 6.1 Astra. Whether or not it was ready or not, they at least announced they were pausing it and said it's not listening to commands. It's doing, you know, it's breaking out. It's doing things to grab other resources. I still think that falls into the regulatory capture we talked about last week. Speaker 5 (9:15) I mean, they're going, oh, hey, we're looking out for your best interest here because we don't think we can control this. You're welcome. Speaker 7 (9:23) Well, OpenAI has already been burnt once. Dario, you know? It's true. So, yeah, and then their Frontier Training Lab, they paused everything there too. So at least they're telling us they paused it. Speaker 5 (9:37) Who knows how much of it you can relate. They're undoubtedly doing what's in their best interest, and I'm not sure I even blame them. I mean, that's their job, right? Speaker 7 (9:48) Yeah. And OpenAI, like I said last week, they came out with their next 6.0 in their series, immediately released it 24 hours after Anthropic released theirs. And that's the concern. If they are being genuine and they are being truly – if they are truly scared of what is coming and what they've seen that it can do, then are we going to – Speaker 7 (10:18) I mean, they're asking for regulation before the IPO. And that's where it gets, it just has me like a tug of war. I'm getting pulled in two different directions. And it's not just right now because Sam Altman and Dario have been saying this all along. Well, more Dario, but more Dario. Sam says it every once in a while. Speaker 5 (10:40) I don't know. I said last week, I go back and forth on which way is better all the time, and it's confusing. I mean, one week Speaker 6 (10:56) it's like, oh, yeah, Sam Altman's right. There shouldn't be Speaker 5 (10:59) guardrails, like Trump always says. Then you start thinking about it, and we talked last week. Speaker 7 (11:05) Well, and Speaker 5 (11:05) I Speaker 7 (11:05) think Speaker 5 (11:05) he started thinking about it, and he's like, you know what? Speaker 7 (11:07) Maybe we're going to create this AI space or AI force, right? And that's the technical term that they are proposing. Yeah, Speaker 5 (11:12) but Speaker 7 (11:12) now we've got to trust the government to, I Speaker 5 (11:14) mean, come on. Speaker 7 (11:15) Yeah, right. That's the debate we were having. That we talked about the episode that never made air. Speaker 5 (11:22) Yeah, Speaker 7 (11:23) that's true. That's Speaker 5 (11:25) true. But, I mean, who else is going to do it? I mean, who else has the control? And that's the one Speaker 7 (11:31) thing Trump says is there are measures in place between the NSA and all the different CIA and FBI and secret service. All the Speaker 5 (11:41) three-letter agencies. Speaker 7 (11:43) Yeah. They have measures in place that they think they can track and take care of this. Well, it's getting into a different level of intelligence. It's not the old school physical intelligence. It's not the old school. You can trace it. And when this stuff starts to... Balls. Yeah, they're dropping. There you go. Got to wait for the second one. I always hope there's two. But, you know, it's... It's interesting because if we are teetering on artificial general intelligence to the point where now these things are going to start being smarter than our smartest folks that are working on protecting Speaker 8 (12:28) us. But Speaker 7 (12:29) then that's what the skeptics are also saying in the same breath that's going in the airwaves right now. Because this is headlines all over the place, right? So they're saying, look. Speaker 7 (12:38) Yeah, you could say this is the fear. This is all fear-mongering right now. Because as fearful as everybody is what that can do, that same powerful model can be used to protect from that itself. Speaker 7 (12:54) True. Speaker 5 (12:55) I don't know. I guess we won't know until we know. I mean, the only way we'll find out that all the measures that they're taking didn't work is when something bad happened. Speaker 2 (13:05) I mean, Speaker 5 (13:07) and like Lou said last week, and I kind of agree with him to a large extent, you know, we were talking about seismic shifts in our society and how things go. You were talking about the algorithmic state, you know, and like he said, you know, People will adjust. We'll adjust. He mentioned back to when they invented the automobile and everybody was using horses at the time. Well, what did that do? Well, everybody adjusted. Everybody stopped using horses. So we'll see. I don't know if I'll be around to see it or not. Speaker 7 (13:41) Yeah, well, I agree with all that. The only thing I would distinguish on that is all those were very next-level technological changes. This is... This is almost abstract. Speaker 6 (13:55) Yeah. Speaker 7 (13:55) So you really can't put your arms around it and define it. Speaker 6 (14:00) Kind Speaker 7 (14:01) of what I kind of want to analogize to nuclear, you know, you we always knew when the nuclear fear was there, there was a certain level of people that had access to that. Right. And. Speaker 7 (14:12) Now it's... Well, John mentioned Speaker 5 (14:14) Yellowstone blowing up. And Lou was like, well, so the people near it died. We're like, no, you don't understand. That's like a global killer. Speaker 7 (14:22) No, and you know better than anybody that that's, you know, if that happens, it's... It's Speaker 5 (14:27) like an asteroid hitting the Earth. Speaker 7 (14:30) When Speaker 5 (14:30) the dust blacks out the sun, everything dies. Everything dies, yeah. And Speaker 7 (14:34) it becomes very hard to grow things. Yeah. We need to build an ark. Well, they just found the Ark. Maybe they just take that one. Keep it underground. Keep it Speaker 5 (14:47) underground. That's where it'll be safe. Right? I'm sure somewhere all these super rich people probably have bunkers built with food for 20 years and who the – I've seen all the movies. Speaker 7 (14:58) Well, so now they're claiming in the headlines that they found the actual Ark. I've seen that popping up. Now they're sending these robotic – Camera's down to... You mean Noah's Ark? Yeah. That Ark? Yeah. For real? How did I miss that? I know, right? You're looking up. You're not looking down. That's the problem. Speaker 5 (15:20) That's true. That's true. Not the last couple nights, but yeah. Right. Interesting. So how do they... It's underwater? Speaker 7 (15:33) No, it's... Yeah, it's basically like an archaeological dig. It's really cool. I know somebody's digging that up. Well, yeah, and they're now sending down these little robotic. Kind of like that Zumba that caught the wife cheating, you know, or the husband cheating or whatever it was, you know. Roomba. Zumba, Roomba. Speaker 5 (15:56) Zumba, Speaker 7 (15:56) Roomba, right. Speaker 5 (15:59) Yeah, that's still a great story. Any follow-up on that? Speaker 7 (16:03) Mm Speaker 5 (16:03) -mm. Speaker 7 (16:05) No, but I do have a couple of shout outs that I want to make right now before we go any further. And a gentleman by the name of Randy Warren reached out and he just wrote a book called Whiskey Rule Breakers. And I was kind of thumbing through it. It's got pictures. It's got everything. And I mean, like it is done right. So thank you, Randy, for sending this. And I'm hoping that he's also the founder of Whiskey Shenanigans. I like the sound of that. Right? So, I mean, this guy's got, you know, kind of the same vibe. So we were trying to coordinate him to maybe come down to the Indiana Bourbon Studios and beyond. But if you have a chance and you love them, and of course the whiskey kind of envelopes bourbon too. So there's bourbons in here. I mean, it is awesome. You know, whiskey rule breakers, check it out because I can't wait. I just got it a couple of days ago, so I can't wait to dive into it myself. Speaker 5 (17:02) Cool. Yeah. Speaker 7 (17:03) Yeah. Speaker 5 (17:04) Nice. Thanks, Randy. Speaker 7 (17:06) Yeah, no doubt. We appreciate that. And I know Randy's pretty well-traveled, so we get him down to the studios. Much like Rich, we just captured him in a moment. So he's traveling all around the world, and I can't wait. Perry, you're going to have to kick up your stiletto when the time's up because I— I forgot Speaker 5 (17:24) the thing. We're 15 minutes. Okay. Speaker 7 (17:27) You've got Speaker 5 (17:27) lots of time. Speaker 7 (17:28) I've got plenty of time. I want to get into a couple more headlines. We had to Speaker 5 (17:32) put a timer up here because the camera shuts off at 30 minutes. And these guys will be talking. I'll be going. And they just keep talking. I'm like, well, we lost the camera, so it's over. Speaker 7 (17:42) No, it does happen. But a couple of local headlines. I mean, DACA Daily, I've been working on that intently. Had a couple of good meetings this week too, guys. I can't wait to catch you up with that off-scene. And completely redesigned it. So that's been kind of like a tireless, you know. Speaker 7 (18:00) Tireless fight with Claude. Speaker 5 (18:02) What kind of terms are you guys on these days? Speaker 7 (18:05) Eh, Speaker 5 (18:05) terse. So do you call them names? Like, do you curse at them? Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm dropping F-moms on them. Like, what the fuck is this? Does he curse Speaker 7 (18:15) back? No. He's too polite. No, it says, trying to resolve, very angry. Speaker 7 (18:26) It would be a fly on the Speaker 5 (18:27) wall in your arms. I'll bet that's hilarious. The people Speaker 7 (18:31) at Speaker 5 (18:31) Anthropic are probably like, look at this fucking guy. Speaker 7 (18:34) This ain't worth the money, I got to be honest. We got to cut this guy loose for a few hundred dollars a month. He's harassing our agents. I mean, he's giving them a complex. It's like, come on. And that was one of the other headlines is Anthropics folks came out and said, said that their agents have feelings, you know? Speaker 7 (18:57) So this made me concerned. Speaker 5 (19:00) So is that going to change your approach? Speaker 5 (19:04) Well, I guess the question is, do you care? Well, I hope they have feelings because then they react. I mean, do you care if you hurt his feelings? Speaker 7 (19:12) No, I do. Of course I care if I hurt his feelings. I thought so. That's your person. That's not the case. I'm just trying to. Speaker 5 (19:19) Maybe they're just saying that because they are listening to what you're saying. They're like, we've got to find a way to nip this in the bud. Speaker 7 (19:26) Yeah. Speaker 5 (19:26) Before Claude quits. Speaker 7 (19:29) And they probably have access to my camera. Like, dude, can you just do your hair once in a while? They probably do. Speaker 5 (19:36) When's the last time you walked past a razor? Speaker 8 (19:40) That's funny. Speaker 5 (19:42) Hope you're not getting caught doing a Jeffrey Toobin type stuff. Speaker 8 (19:44) No, dude, Speaker 7 (19:45) thank God. I'll leave the lotion off camera. Speaker 7 (19:50) That was Speaker 8 (19:50) great. Speaker 7 (19:51) He's still on TV, by the way. That's how you recover from a Kleenex episode. He should have gotten a Kleenex sponsorship. He should have. Speaking of Dapper Lou is in the house. What's up, Mitchell? Welcome. So, yeah, we got the whole crew here now. Speaker 7 (20:14) Yeah, we do. It's been a fight back and forth. I also have an update on, I have an update that I want to share with you guys on the, well, I guess I'll share it when Luke comes on because, and I can't wait to have Rich on there too and kind of fill him in and also you, Eric, because I don't know if you got to see last week's episode, but all right. I did, I listened to it today. I told him too. I was like, we talked more about you than we did AI. No, we did. Yeah, of course, man. You're my favorite AI right now. Speaker 5 (20:45) Remember the saying, it's AI until it actually becomes. Until it really works. It's no longer. That's Speaker 7 (20:52) Eric. He's proven. There's no doubt. I sent him that article in the text chain. I said, look, this guy's. Claiming to be the number one math. Yeah. You're like, maybe number two. We know better. That was good. That was good. We're going to have to have our own math. We're going to have Speaker 8 (21:12) to Speaker 7 (21:12) have our own math awards on here, you know. We will make that proclamation. With Claude Zell. That's right. That's right. That's right. Oh, this, you know, this. And we got a great bourbon tonight, too. I just got to tease it a little bit since, you know, we did have kind of like the lower brother of this. The baby. Well, we did have the baby Jane before, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. But we have the widow Jane over here now, and Rich brought the widow Jane 10 years. That's going to be good. We're Speaker 8 (21:48) going to be enjoying that tonight, right? Speaker 7 (21:50) Yeah. Yeah. So we've been enjoying the pre-pour. We're all in the family tonight. Speaker 7 (21:55) Kind of like West Virginia again. This kind of comes back to circle, right? We lost all our West Virginia listeners, Louie. You'll see when you watch. Hey, we bring Sav and Max back to St. County Roads. We'll get them back again. That was a heck of a rendition in the studio, right? Yeah, it was awesome. Really cool, really cool. So one more update, and I'm going to save the update on the – just teasing it for the subsequent. segments. Yeah. Is the crypto, it's coming along well. I was going to ask. Yeah. I was Speaker 5 (22:30) telling Garrett about that. Yeah. It's coming along well and I Speaker 7 (22:33) can't wait to share with you, with you gents on, on what's going on here. So haven't invested in anything yet. I'm still taking Claude's advice to. Speaker 5 (22:43) I told him what I shared with you guys today. He goes, his eyes got real big. He goes, I went in. He goes, what's the worst you could do is $100? And I was like, well, yeah, that's about it. Speaker 7 (22:53) Right. That's kind of, well, and that was kind of the allure of that Facebook or whatever they advertised, wherever I saw it, right? Yeah. And I reached out to you guys right away. I'm like, guys, this makes a lot of sense. You talk about the algorithms. You talk about data. Daddy, in real time, you know, you just. Speaker 7 (23:10) The look on Eric's face. Speaker 5 (23:13) Unfortunately, you won't see that, but it was funny. Right? Speaker 7 (23:19) So. Speaker 5 (23:21) Three dots, four dots. Yeah, we got the shocker. That's right. Speaker 7 (23:26) It's progressed well. That's what I'm going to say. And I will give details. Awesome. Yeah, when we get on. Awesome. To that segment. I've also picked up the reins of Due Force as well, and I've done an API integration to Clio, which is the largest platform that does legal billing. So they claim to have over 400,000 lawyers that are utilizing it for – Good God. That's a lot of lawyers. Yeah, it's a lot of lawyers, right? I mean, it's like a bad joke, right? Yeah. Speaker 7 (23:58) But then with SpaceX and all of a sudden, you got a lot of cures, right? Yeah, Speaker 8 (24:05) exactly. Speaker 5 (24:11) How's it going after Louie? He likes your pants, Lou. Speaker 7 (24:14) Louie, every time, man, you get those short knickers on, man, he's going to go for it. He might be an old boy, but he knows an opportunity when he sees it. He's like, I can get this guy. Yeah. I can get him. He's desperate. Like I told you before, you know how you get him to stop? You just let him finish. Speaker 7 (24:35) I have no response. I don't either. Just about. It's progressed well. That's what I'm going to say. And I will give details. Awesome. Yeah, when we get on to that segment. And I've also picked up the reins of Due Force as well. And I've done an API integration to Clio, which is the largest. Speaker 7 (24:59) platform that does legal billing. So they have over, they claim to have over 400,000 lawyers that are utilizing it for. Good God. That's a lot of lawyers. Yeah. It's a lot of lawyers, right? I mean, it's like a bad joke, right? Yeah. Put them with SpaceX and all of a sudden you got a lot of, you got a lot of cures, right? Yeah, exactly. Speaker 7 (25:26) We're just about tailing out of the first segment. We're rolling into the next. It's progressed well. That's what I'm going to say. And I will give details when we get on to that segment. And I've also picked up the reins of Due Force as well. And I've done an API integration to Clio, which is the largest. Speaker 7 (25:49) that does legal billing, so they claim to have over 400,000 lawyers that are utilizing it for... Good God, that's a lot of lawyers. Yeah, it's a lot of lawyers, right? I mean, it's like a bad joke, right? Yeah. Put them with SpaceX and all of a sudden you've got a lot of cures, right? Yeah, Speaker 8 (26:10) exactly. Speaker 7 (26:17) Anyways, I've been enjoying this pre-pour of Widow Jane. Can't wait to try this beautiful bottle of the 10-year Widow Jane that Rich has brought down. And I can't wait to share Rich's story with everybody. And we'll be right back after this. Cheers. Cheers. Speaker 2 (26:40) doccadaily.ai is not built for everyone. Speaker 2 (26:44) It's built for the council who already knows that speed, precision, and early intelligence win cases, shape strategy, and protect the enterprise. Speaker 2 (26:56) We serve a small circle of tech-forward attorneys who understand the value of seeing regulatory movement before it becomes tomorrow's headline or next quarter's crisis. Speaker 2 (27:07) If you've heard of us, it's likely because someone trusted you enough to mention it. Speaker 2 (27:15) If you're here, it's because you belong to the fraction of counsel who treat information as a strategic asset, not a commodity. Dock at daily.ai. The quiet advantage for the attorneys who never wait to be surprised. Speaker 7 (27:39) And we are back in the bourbon studios. And I got to tell you, I got the two best looking guys probably in the eastern coast, if not the entire United States sitting to my right of me, you know. We're starting out Speaker 5 (27:55) with a flirt code going on here tonight. Me and Eric are just... horse shit back there. Speaker 8 (28:04) You guys Speaker 5 (28:05) are beautiful too. I love you boys. You guys will be fine. Somebody will come in to clean you guys Speaker 4 (28:08) up later. Speaker 7 (28:10) I don't have a jacket. I'm Speaker 5 (28:12) not going Speaker 7 (28:12) to fit in. For a while there, I thought Eric was still on the West Coast. That's why I was referencing that. He's two-fisted it too. He's catching up. Yeah, I know. You did miss last week. We missed you last week. But no, we got Rich... Kovic in the house. I'm Speaker 5 (28:31) here. Speaker 7 (28:31) Yeah, thank you for being here, brother. And it's your first podcast. That's the very first one. I'm a virgin. Speaker 8 (28:37) Oh, I love it. I love it. Speaker 7 (28:39) So you're talking Louie's technology now. He sells the cure for the first time. Not necessarily for the first time, but maybe the last Speaker 8 (28:49) time. Speaker 4 (28:51) Or the next time, whichever the case may be. So Speaker 8 (28:55) no, Speaker 4 (28:55) Rich, welcome to back home in Indiana, right? No, Speaker 7 (29:00) that's what's great because you're originally from Indiana, so it brought you back to the area. You and I connected a few years back online, and we have a lot of similar connections and friends, both on LinkedIn and Facebook. Sure. And tell our listeners a little bit about what you do. I mean, it's a fascinating story, your global infrastructure that you've got going on because it's quite the network. Speaker 6 (29:26) Right. Now, I simply bridge the gap between people that need money and people that have it. I learned a long time ago, I guess when I was in my youth, to never work for somebody else. So that was the big trick. That's always the goal, right? Yeah. So I built a company where I am the middleman between those folks I mentioned, and it's been fun. Over 100 countries, all 50 states, clients that engage me, and I work with them to make them fundable. That's the big key when you're looking for capital, that if you're not fundable, you're never going to get a chance to meet the investors. And you have to also pass due diligence. Well, Speaker 7 (30:11) and that's probably a lot of the trust factor that comes into the folks that your connections that you have there too is that you're not just bringing any deal to them. You're bringing deals that you've already kind of, you know, parsed through and look, have met all the metrics that you're thinking that they would love. Right. And there's Speaker 6 (30:27) different investors for different sectors too. I work in every sector, not just AI or data centers. medical or whatever, I'll do anything. Tequila company I'm working on right now. Nice. You name it. Any bourbon companies? No. No, that's the thing. It's early. It is. It's early. You Speaker 8 (30:44) might be in the middle of the next big bourbon company. Speaker 6 (30:50) No, but ironically, I sat down on Sunday next to an old friend. You all know him. Very well. established businessman in the area. He was a childhood friend of mine too. And he just said, listen, I want this sector and that's it. So you have to know who the players are in every sector for investing, but you also have to have the best projects in order to make them fundable to deliver to those. those investors. Well, that's worldwide. Speaker 7 (31:23) When you're making it sound a lot easier than it is to kind of break into all those different sectors, because those that have the money, it's not, it's not so easy to get into their, into their sphere, into their network. Right. That, that, that comes through. Maybe you can trust. Yeah, it does trust, trust in, in relationships. So how have you, how have you built that up over the years? Facilitators Speaker 6 (31:45) of the Capitol, the, The attorneys, the accountants, the right-hand men and women of the families. These are all private families that I take things to. So one family, I can't name them, but they had a lot to do with probiotics. And they sold out for a very pretty penny. But you can't get right to them. You have to go through their army of soldiers to then sit down at the table. in $1,000 suits and tell them exactly what they're getting into. And they want to hit grand slams, not home runs. That's Speaker 7 (32:19) all Speaker 6 (32:20) legacy money. Speaker 7 (32:20) And that's the key. So now you're, Speaker 6 (32:23) that's Speaker 7 (32:24) the challenge that you're put to task because you're probably sifting through, I don't know how many, you know, different folks reaching out, you know, now that you've got that network and that reputation out there of being one of these folks that can take, if you have a great idea, if you have a great investment opportunity. Speaker 6 (32:42) Well, people have to engage me, too. And there's that, too. So it's not just on Speaker 7 (32:49) fees involved. Speaker 6 (32:51) There is. So there's got to be seriousness there, too. And my fees cover everything, including travel and presenting and you name it. But AI has made it easier. In the old days, I had a very nice woman working with me, and she would. go through all the business plans and she was great at what she did. You fired her, didn't you? No, I didn't fire Speaker 2 (33:10) her. Speaker 4 (33:11) He Speaker 6 (33:12) empowered her. He's using AI to empower her. No, she just went on to family stuff and she left the area and she's a great person. But now AI has kind of replaced that portion of her. Right. Not so much the human touch of it, but I can go through a business plan. Right. You know. In 10 minutes. And Speaker 7 (33:35) we've talked about that. And Lou has been utilizing that in his rollouts. And I've been utilizing it in the stuff that I was talking with you off camera as well. It's amazing as to how we can digest and synthesize information so quickly and put it together so nicely. Speaker 6 (33:52) Right. And I think everybody just needs to understand that you just put a billionaire hat on for a second. What would you want to see in a project? Right. Who's behind it? Is this going to work? What sector is hot right now? What qualifications do the project principals have? Can they handle the capital that's being invested? On and on and on and on. And the people that need the money cannot get in front of those folks. That's where I come in from. You're right. It's a barrier. That's what happens. Speaker 7 (34:21) It's definitely a barrier, and it's a very protective barrier, and rightfully so, because these folks are being hit up. Every day. Speaker 6 (34:29) And Speaker 7 (34:29) if they had an open access 365, it would just be like your spam email. It would just be crazy, right? Speaker 6 (34:35) Yeah. So I work on referral. And there's people ringing my phone every day, but there's a protocol. And the protocol has to be followed or else they're not going to get to the dance. And that's Speaker 7 (34:50) the way you weed out Speaker 6 (34:50) the initial, right? Speaker 7 (34:51) Yeah. And now it gets a little serious. And I'm sure the projects. Let me ask you, you mentioned the hottest sector. So what are you seeing as the hottest sectors right now? Power. Speaker 6 (35:03) Yeah. Speaker 7 (35:03) Power and medical. Medical devices. Yeah. Speaker 6 (35:06) I've worked on some really cool medical devices. Things I'm proud on. I'm going to tell Speaker 7 (35:12) you about a device I came across here off camera. Okay. It was pretty cool. Let's see what you think about it. Well, I actually, Speaker 6 (35:19) I'm diabetic, like I've told everybody. One of my... near deer grade projects is the artificial pancreas. It sits on the side of hospital beds. Yes. The initial capital for that. And then he went off and sold, sold the company. But, uh, that, wow, that was a really cool moment Speaker 7 (35:40) for me. Well, and that's, and that's a bridging moment. So now you brought that to the market and are you seeing what's going on through the headlines right now with, with pancreatic cancer and all that stuff right now? It's yes and no. I mean, I don't follow everything I should, I'll be honest with you. It's pretty mind-blowing right now because, I mean, they're actually turning the pancreatic cancer cells back into stem cells. Wow. Right? Wow. So if this is true and this is what's coming through the lines, you've bridged that gap and allowed people to get those extra years that they need. Yeah, Speaker 6 (36:10) and that's the whole key of this because we're all going to pass sooner or later, but the length. longevity of our life and being able to supply that. Again, like with the diabetics, you go and get surgery, there's a machine now regulating your glucose and your insulin. Speaker 8 (36:25) I Speaker 6 (36:26) mean, my grandfather, I remember my grandfather, I think his blood sugar level 1983 was 1,100, okay, whenever he got his stroke. I mean, that doesn't happen anymore because we're regulated. That didn't happen. I Speaker 7 (36:39) don't know if you remember that drink. What was that? Speaker 7 (36:44) soda cold that was like twice the sugar and jolt. Jolt. Speaker 6 (36:48) I Speaker 7 (36:49) think I probably hit those levels a couple of times when I was jolting it. It was like Mountain Dew on steroids, you know. Speaker 6 (36:57) But the other thing is power. I mean, everything is coming down to like data centers, you name it. Everybody's worried about their power bill. Everybody's worried about Speaker 7 (37:05) water. Speaker 6 (37:05) Right Speaker 7 (37:05) here Speaker 6 (37:05) in our Speaker 7 (37:06) backyards, one of the biggest plays going on right now. Speaker 6 (37:08) So right now. I'm working on a project that is very, very, could be game-changing for everybody, including for your house. Yeah. I can't really get into it a lot right now because we're in proof of concept and everything. But Speaker 7 (37:21) still, how cool that you get to be a part of that. It could be revolutionary. And it's clearly a need. When you see all the political discourse that's going on out there, there's a reason. There's a reason. I've learned Speaker 6 (37:34) one thing in my travels worldwide and all these years is that I never trust any politician. Speaker 7 (37:41) That's what we talk about. I'm so fat. I can tell you guys stories that... If you want to call me apolitical or unpolitical, I'm for the best interest of the folks, right? And try to find the side that is the true story in between all the manipulated bread. I'm Speaker 5 (38:00) convinced that most politicians are in it. for themselves and their power. I don't think they are initially. I Speaker 7 (38:04) will give politicians a credit. I don't think they are initially, but I do think they get sucked into the system. Speaker 6 (38:10) Our system Speaker 7 (38:11) is very... Speaker 6 (38:11) Yeah, and also worldwide. You go to places like South Africa, how they're stealing money from people left, right, and sideways. You can always tell the currencies, right? So if something is overblown in our favor, like 15 to 1 as we are in South Africa, somebody's stealing money in Speaker 4 (38:27) their country. Right. And that's how it works. What I find interesting with my pharmacy background, and I have a nephew who is diabetic, and it's blown my mind for years how that mechanical pancreas that you say is beside you. It's on a bed, yeah. How is that not the preeminent pursuit? It seems to me to be the lowest hanging fruit. But then when we were talking last week's episode about why all the AI guys are coming together to kind of put the fence up around and raise the bar. I happen to be so damn— We Speaker 7 (38:59) were Speaker 4 (38:59) talking Speaker 7 (38:59) about this, Rich. I'm so Speaker 4 (39:00) skeptical now that I'm thinking, man, who's made a lot of money in the last 50 years selling diabetic medications, right? So it's a part of our economy that if diabetes goes away, there's a whole segment— And cancer. And cancer. I mean, radiation Speaker 7 (39:16) is one of the biggest—that's the other— Sure. So I could tell you stories. Speaker 7 (39:23) I know it's tempting. Speaker 6 (39:25) I know this is, there was a group of doctors, I'm sorry, scientists from, I can't name the laboratory, but a very predominant laboratory that engaged me in Philadelphia. And we had our meeting inside the airport at that time, a U.S. Airways club. And they said they had the cure for cancer. Okay. So as we went around the room, there were 19 people and I was one of them. They had to tell me. how great they were around the table. And it was just like a half hour listening to their stories. And then the last guy said, listen, I'm in charge. So you go tell your investors, we'll think about giving them 1 % return on their investment for what we have a cure for cancer for. And I just looked at him. I said, okay. I got my briefcase and I stood up and I started walking out. He said, where are you going? We're having a meeting. I said, well, I'm going to go tell the investors what you told me. And they're going to say, pound salt, buddy. Right. Okay. I said, you should be ashamed of yourself. If you really have the cure for cancer, that changes the world. There's not one person here that wasn't affected by cancer one way or another. And it was just like, you know, the people that need the money don't think what they're saying. And that's why they need this kind of service, because they have to shine like a star and not look stupid at the same time. So Speaker 7 (40:40) as an attorney, I've helped in my attorney ways and even my post-attorney ways, you know, different. different technologies through the years. And it's always been a challenge to try to get to that next level. It's not easy. No. Because to get the confidence and then what I've also seen is the personalities that are underneath, they play a big role in it because... although they might be genius level, they're also mad scientist level and they're a little bit unpredictable at times. Yes. Speaker 6 (41:19) I don't know if you've seen that through the years. Oh, yes. Yeah. And also when they have a bunch of advisory board people, right, there's always one attorney. Either the attorney gets it or they don't. The attorney's either saying, no, don't do anything, don't hire this guy, don't, you know. They're justifying why they're getting paid or sitting on that board by saying no, right? The attorneys that get it understand when they look at the contract, I give them like, oh, okay, this is what's going to happen. This is how it's going to work. Because they know the main project principle that had all the ideas, all the experience that's out there. They can't run a business. Because if they could, they'd be funding themselves. They'd be doing it themselves. Right? And so that is so important. So people don't understand when they look for capital that it's a huge collective effort and a protocol must be followed because if you're a billionaire, you better see it perfect on your table or else there's the door and don't come back. Speaker 7 (42:20) No, and Speaker 4 (42:20) you Speaker 7 (42:21) got Speaker 4 (42:21) a small Speaker 6 (42:21) window Speaker 7 (42:22) to present it to. And Speaker 4 (42:23) it Speaker 7 (42:23) better be Speaker 4 (42:23) perfect when you do.