Maria Semple on writing strong women and embracing vulnerability in books

Bookshelfie: Women’s Prize Podcast

In this uplifting episode of Bookshelfie, novelist and screenwriter Maria Semple discusses her journey from the collaborative Hollywood development machine to the

Key takeaways

• Maria Semple describes her six years in Hollywood development as a 'state of constant agita' where creative control was constantly overridden by network notes and studio mandates.
• Her latest novel, Go Gentle, features Adora Hazard, a philosopher practicing stoicism who navigates divorce, motherhood, and midlife reinvention while living with a curated circle of friends called the coven.

Main topics

• Transition from television writing to solo novel authorship
• Stoicism as a tool for creative freedom and mental resilience

Notable quotes

"To be in that Hollywood development machine is really to be driven insane."

Conclusion

Listeners gain a nuanced look at how literature and philosophy interse

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Coming up on Book Shelfie. I wanted to write a woman who was, you know, sexy and kind and a good mother and also really in love with her own intellect and just showing the joys of the intellect for a woman, which again, I don't think is that feminine. You know, I think that we are taught to not be the smartest person in the room. It just feels like being naked, standing out there naked and just saying to everyone, this is the best I can do. And you kind of can't blame anybody for what's in your book but yourself. To be in that Hollywood development machine is really to be driven insane. It's just to live in a state of constant agita because other people have just control over you. When I'm reading a book and it's just not, it's maybe too complicated or it's too dense or the story isn't happening. I really am reading the book and I'm like, what about me? Don't you care about me? Like I'm the one who spent all this money and made the time and it's like, you don't even care about me, you know? Speaker 2 (1:08) Hello, I'm Vic Hope and this is Bookshelfy, the podcast from the Women's Prize that asks women with lives as inspiring as any fiction to share the five books by women that have shaped them. Now, before we begin, remember to subscribe or follow so you never miss an episode. With thanks to our sponsor, Bailey's. Speaker 2 (1:28) Today I'm joined by Maria Semple. Maria is a novelist and screenwriter. Her novels today will be different. Where'd You Go, Bernadette? and This One Is Mine have been translated into 40 languages. Where'd You Go, Bernadette? has sold over 200,000 copies in the UK alone and was shortlisted for the Women's Prize for Fiction in 2013. Maria used to work in television, producing and writing for sitcoms and comedy specials such as Arrested Development, The George Carlin Show and Mad About You, which earned her a Primetime Emmy nomination. Go Gentle, her most recent novel, is out now. And it is such a pleasure to welcome you to Boot Shelfie. Speaker 1 (2:05) Oh, thank you very much, Vic. It's so fun to be here. It was a great moment. I think I can say this Speaker 2 (2:09) because I'm not sure exactly what order the episodes are going out in when we're recording. But you came in the room and Thierry Jones was here. And there was a beautiful moment of friendship and getting to reconnect. And I'm so fascinated by the relationships between authors Speaker 1 (2:25) because, of course, you know each other. Yes. And that's actually the most fun thing about being an author. As you said in the intro, I'd been a television writer for a long time. And those were my people. And when authors to me were so far above me, they were just like on this plane that was inaccessible to me in my mind of just like people I could never meet, I could never know. And so the festivals and being on the tours and getting to know the authors is truly... Why I keep writing books is because I just want to read Tiare Jones and then meet her and then become friends with her. And then we FaceTime each other and we run into each other. It's really the pleasure of the job is getting to know the other novelists. I love that. I became a novelist because Speaker 2 (3:09) I Speaker 1 (3:10) wanted to be friends with her. Speaker 2 (3:11) Exactly. Why not? Why not? Yes. What was that transition like Speaker 1 (3:14) from television writing to the literary world? In TV, you're really surrounded by a big machine. you know, and all the scripts are written by a group of people. It's everything's done by committee. It's a big rewrite room. Maybe a writer goes off. I'd say perhaps on half the shows, a writer would even go off alone at all to spend, they get maybe five days to write a script. But generally, the ideas are come up within a group. Breaking the story in a group, meaning you're kind of figuring out how it all lays out into scenes in a group with somebody standing at the whiteboard, figuring it out, everyone shouting on top of each other. And then somebody maybe goes off to write. Then you come back and it all gets rewritten as a group. And then beyond that, it's network notes, it's studio notes, it's actor notes. You're just, there's so many, there's budget, there's so many considerations. And so I feel like at the end of a TV show, even if... one's name is on it. There's no sense of authorship. And you feel like if the show's good or bad, you're just like, yeah, whatever. We did our best and everything is like you're settling for something. I feel like TV really finds the middle a lot. It's never so much worse than what you've written because there's really good actors and there's good sets and there's good... camera work and everything and it can elevate it. But also I feel like you have all these big lofty visions for budget and things that don't happen. Now. So there's that. And then fiction, on the other hand, you're just fully on your own. And it just feels like being naked, standing out there naked and just saying to everyone, this is the best I can do. And you kind of can't blame anybody for what's in your book but yourself. Speaker 2 (5:04) It's Speaker 1 (5:05) just me. It's just me. And this is my taste. And I can't act like, oh, I wanted it to be better. You know, and I feel like that's the world I came from is where you just thought, oh, it would have been better, but everybody ruined it. But equally, is there more pride in it if it Speaker 2 (5:18) is just you? Yes, Speaker 1 (5:19) very much so. There's more pride in it. And it really is. It's all the pleasure of just having the courage to go out and to do something that nobody asks you to do. Even as a bestselling novelist, there really is not the need for my next novel out there in the world. And it's this thing that you're kind of fighting against every time when you sit down to write. And so to me, just the books, it's funny because once I... write a book, then it's perceived a certain way by people. And I really like that. And it's fun for me to hear about it. But to me, it's always the fact that I was just like alone in a room and I had the courage to think that this was any good and then put my name on it. Speaker 2 (6:01) Well, let's talk about your most recent book, Go Gentle. It's a mystery. It's a romance. It's a globetrotting adventure. But at its heart, it explores midlife reinvention. Can you tell us a little bit more about it? Speaker 1 (6:13) Yes. Go Gentle is the story of Adora Hazard. And she's a woman in her late 50s who's recently divorced, mother of a teenage girl. And she moves to New York. She's a philosopher. And her philosophy is a thing called stoicism, where her whole vibe is to only... desire what she has, that that to her is the root of happiness, is not to live her life according to what she doesn't have and to wish things were differently, but to only want the things she has. And so it gives her an enormous amount of inner freedom. And one of the extensions of that or one of the ways she applies that is her living situation. She lives in this apartment on the Upper West Side in New York, and she lives on a certain floor, and there are four or five other single women her age who are divorced or widowed who live on the floor with her, and she calls them the coven. And so the idea is that they're going to grow old in kind of curated company among their favorite people in the world, which are their women friends. And so she's living this great life where she is thrilled with She's vexed by her daughter, but just fully delighted by having this teenage daughter and thinks it's hilarious. She has a job as a moral tutor to this rich family who lives across the park. This rich family has employed her to teach their twin boys ethics. And so she's a morals tutor. And she lives with her friends. And then what do you give to the woman who wants nothing? I enter a handsome stranger, whereas suddenly Adora, who thought that she had kind of snuffed out desire, now is inflamed with desire. In a review, one writer described tearing through it Speaker 2 (8:08) with headless pleasure. Which I love as a description. Yes. How important to you is creating joy and pleasure for your books? Because I feel like so often we talk about authors wanting to make you uncomfortable, but actually wanting to make you have a great Speaker 1 (8:24) time is something to be valued. Yes. Well, that's all I ever want to do. I really am trying to think about at any point when I'm... When I'm writing the book, when I'm really thinking about the plot, I'm very into plot and I'm very, you know, I write from the beginning to the end. And so whenever I get to a juncture, I think so hard about what would be the best thing that could happen right now, you know, in terms of the reading experience, really. And that's all it is. I'm thinking what would be really surprising? What would people gasp at? What could be... Fully based in reality that you believe would happen, but that just pushes it a little more into the heightened reality. Because a lot of times the way I like to think about my writing and... is I like to think about if you've had an interaction that's upsetting to you, and maybe on the drive home, you're thinking, I wish I'd said that. You know what I should have done? You know what I should have done in that situation? Right, you know the feeling? So what I like to do on books is have them actually do it, you know? Because I think it's really fun to read that. And so I think that's like a very pleasurable thing, is to watch kind of characters very much like you take actions. And do things that maybe you wouldn't have the courage to do or you wouldn't, you know, you have too much kind of social concern to do things. And so that's where kind of the sweet spot of where I live. And I think it's pleasurable to read something like that. So that's really all I'm trying to do. And does that reflect what you want from your own reading experiences, the books that you gravitate towards? Oh, for sure. Absolutely. Yes, I'm pretty. hard on books. You know, I feel like I, they have to do their job to entertain me. I really believe that. Like what a lot of times when I'm reading a book and it's just not, it's maybe too complicated or it's too dense or the story isn't. happening, I really am reading the book. And I'm like, what about me? Don't you care about me? Like, I'm the one who spent all this money and made the time. And it's like, you don't even care about me, you know? So I really think about that. And I feel like when I'm writing a book, I like to think of myself as a benevolent hostess. You know, it's like you've come into my house, I'm giving you the signature cocktail. I have a lot of really interesting people you're going to love, who have stories for you that you're not even going to believe and that are going to blow your mind. And I I kind of lead you around the party to just give you the best possible time. Well, let's talk about the books that have thought Speaker 2 (11:03) about you, Speaker 1 (11:03) that you have loved Speaker 2 (11:05) and have been benevolent hosts at their own parties. Yes, yes. Speaker 1 (11:08) Your first book, Shelfie Book, is Brother of the More Famous Speaker 2 (11:12) Jack by Barbara Trapido. In Barbara Trapido's first novel. a coming-of-age story, 18-year-old Catherine navigates life with the eccentric and bohemian Goldman family at the start of her university journey. At first, the family feels like home, but a romantic entanglement and subsequent heartbreak leave her with no choice but to leave. Funny and rich with characters, we follow her journey back into the fold after more than a decade away, which yields many unexpected surprises. So when