After Hours with Alison Sivitz

Blank Check with Griffin & David

The episode features a deep dive into Martin Scorsese's 1985 film 'After Hours', with guest Ali Sivitz. The hosts explore the film's chaotic

Key takeaways

• The film 'After Hours' was originally offered to Tim Burton for his directorial debut.
• Producer Amy Robinson, known for her role in 'Mean Streets', helped bring the project to life alongside Griffin Dunn.

Main topics

• After Hours film analysis
• Martin Scorsese's filmography

Notable quotes

It's a fire podcast.

Conclusion

The episode provides a nostalgic and informative look at a cult classi

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:01) Jack, Jack, Griffin, and David. Speaker 2 (0:25) I'm just a podcaster for Christ's sakes. Speaker 4 (0:29) What's the line? Word Speaker 2 (0:30) processor is what his job is in the movie. Speaker 3 (0:32) Thank you for backing off the mic. Thank Speaker 2 (0:34) you. I appreciate that. You Speaker 3 (0:35) know Speaker 2 (0:35) what? 11 years, you learn a couple of things. 11 and a half. Yeah. Wow. Speaker 1 (0:40) It's Speaker 2 (0:41) pretty close to our half birthday when this episode's coming out. Speaker 1 (0:44) When's the real birthday? Speaker 2 (0:46) March 23rd. Speaker 3 (0:50) March 23rd. Speaker 4 (0:52) That's our anniversary. Speaker 1 (0:54) Is that a... That's an Aries. Speaker 4 (0:57) That sounds right. No. That's Speaker 1 (0:59) a Pisces? Aries. You were right the first time. It's Speaker 3 (1:01) an Speaker 4 (1:01) Aries. Which Speaker 2 (1:02) is why Speaker 3 (1:03) our podcast is crazy. Speaker 1 (1:04) We Speaker 2 (1:05) were talking astrology before the show, but we've never thought to do the signs for the show itself. The show itself. We should. The show itself. A water podcast. Speaker 1 (1:13) No, it's air. I mean fire. Speaker 2 (1:16) A fire podcast. Yes. And many do say that. Speaker 1 (1:20) I've heard it on the street. Speaker 2 (1:21) It's a fire podcast. Speaker 1 (1:23) And I'll put her hand gently on my shoulder and said, blank check is a fire podcast. She Speaker 2 (1:28) whispered it. Speaker 1 (1:28) Yeah. Speaker 2 (1:29) I'm sorry if I seem a little out of it. I didn't get any sleep last night. I had a crazy night. You Speaker 3 (1:35) are covered in paper mache. I had a crazy night. I had Speaker 2 (1:38) to Speaker 4 (1:38) watch after hours. Right. Which is like 87 whole minutes long. Speaker 2 (1:43) Yeah, I guess that was basically the night. Speaker 2 (1:46) I'm reading your Speaker 4 (1:47) interview now, which I read it before, but I'm just reading it again. It is so funny. With endowed. With endowed. Yeah, with endowed. Where you're like, oh, I feel like we can just chat. And she just says, whatever you'd like, honey. She's so Speaker 1 (1:56) angel, perfect, lovely. Speaker 4 (1:59) That would put me right in Speaker 2 (2:00) a good mood if endowed said that to me. Real endowed. What was the endowed? Hair endowed. We got an endowed burger report. Yep. Hair endowed is a good way to differentiate, like full fat Coke. Hair endowed. Speaker 2 (2:12) It's nicer than her suit and out, even if that's correct. In comparison, it makes it sound like she's a Yeti. Right. You want just hair and out. Let's maybe give some context of what we're Speaker 3 (2:24) talking Speaker 2 (2:25) about. Griffin, Speaker 3 (2:26) what's this podcast? Speaker 2 (2:27) This podcast, David's so happy that it's happening. Right away. Much like After Hours, which gets to Roseanne Arquette's apartment within like 10 minutes. When I set up that transition, Sims gave me the biggest smile. I actually. have maybe never seen David this happy in my life. So Speaker 3 (2:42) happy. Speaker 4 (2:43) Look Speaker 3 (2:44) at two minutes and we're getting into the whole spiel. I'm waiting for 2.30. Speaker 2 (2:48) Sorry, sorry, sorry. 2.30. This is Blank Check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. It's a fire podcast about filmographies, directors who have massive success early on in their careers and are given a series of blank checks to make whatever crazy passion projects they want. Sometimes those checks clear. Sometimes they bounce baby. And sometimes, like Martin Scorsese, he has a series of films where he needs to to reset the table. Sure. And you and I were saying this the other day, I think off mic, that what makes Martin Scorsese unique is every movie of his that on paper is a paycheck movie. Sure. Or is basically like Speaker 4 (3:22) he's doing this while he waits to make the one he really cares about. Speaker 2 (3:26) This Speaker 4 (3:26) is a Speaker 2 (3:26) favor film. This is more of a hired gig, whatever. Every one of those would be most filmmakers' best film ever. Speaker 4 (3:32) Absolutely. Speaker 2 (3:33) None of them are dispassionate. All of them are interested. David. I didn't know Speaker 4 (3:37) the ice would be that loud. I was drinking coffee, not eating ice. I was drinking coffee. Speaker 2 (3:41) Ben, in his defense, it's never loud and this has never been a problem before. So there's no way he could have known. You have a bit Speaker 4 (3:46) of a problem with ice near the microphone. This is correct. Speaker 2 (3:49) And I have a bit of a problem with ice in the streets of America. I mean, yes, Speaker 4 (3:53) I agree with you. Okay. And Speaker 2 (3:57) I say abolish ice from David's cup. Speaker 2 (4:02) That wasn't a cue for you to do it. Speaker 4 (4:04) It actually was. Speaker 2 (4:05) Everyone's a little jacked up. Yeah, Speaker 3 (4:07) I feel like Speaker 2 (4:07) everyone's Speaker 3 (4:08) a Speaker 2 (4:08) little... This movie, Speaker 3 (4:09) watching it this morning, has put me in such a weird mood. Speaker 2 (4:12) Really? You found that this movie got you a little wound? Speaker 3 (4:15) Yeah, like first thing watching this, I'm just feeling very buzzy. Had you seen it before, Producer Ben? I had. Speaker 2 (4:21) You had. I mean, let's call it. This is a miniseries on the films of Martin Scorsese. It's called Podcast Fellas, of course. It couldn't have been called anything else. And today we're covering... The griffiest movie we've ever covered on the show. And I mean that in a couple ways. One, it stars Griffin Dunn. We have not, I think, covered a film starring a Griffin to date. Who are the other Griffins? We've covered Griffin Dunn in supporting roles. Speaker 4 (4:48) Yeah, have we? Johnny Speaker 2 (4:50) Dangerously, of course. One of the funniest movies ever made. Yep. Funny. Keep the knee in there. I don't know if he is. There aren't that many. We haven't covered what? Speaker 4 (5:01) Yeah, we haven't. I don't think we've covered any of his other movies. We haven't covered a Griffin Gluck film. Oh, you know what? We watched Ocean's 8 on Patreon. He's in that for a second. He is? Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:10) he's a parole board Speaker 4 (5:10) officer. Speaker 2 (5:11) Griffin O'Neill. We haven't covered a Griffin O'Neill. I'm just Googling actors named Griffin. We Speaker 3 (5:15) haven't covered Peter Griffin. Speaker 4 (5:16) We Speaker 2 (5:17) haven't. We haven't covered Stewie. Now, you love Peter Griffin. Speaker 4 (5:20) Right? You're the right generation for this. Speaker 2 (5:23) I think so. Wait, are you just assuming? Speaker 4 (5:24) I'm going to lob a lot of stuff at our guest today that's about how she's young and I find young people's tastes different and mysterious. Thank you for Speaker 1 (5:32) calling me young. You are very young. I think the photo of Peter and Lois holding hands in front of the sunset is the most romantic image in existence. Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:42) he's a fucking idiot. He's hyper-confident and mean. Speaker 1 (5:46) When I was probably... 11. I think I was in sixth grade. My phone ringtone was Stewie Griffin saying mom over and over and over again. There you go. Speaker 2 (5:57) It is funny that it feels like the iteration from Simpsons to Family Guy is, you know how like the best Simpsons episodes have that thing where Homer finally gets it and he does one really thoughtful move that shows that he has some degree of emotional intelligence. And it kind of redeems his character. What if that never happens? Speaker 1 (6:15) Oh, yeah. What Speaker 2 (6:16) if it's just dumb shit all the time and he never provides a single reason for Lois to stay with him? Other than the sunset. Speaker 4 (6:24) Griffin O'Neill. I said Griffin O'Neill. I did say that. Griffin Gluck, you said. I said Griffin Gluck. Speaker 2 (6:33) There's Speaker 4 (6:33) not a lot. You would maybe Speaker 2 (6:35) not be surprised to hear I keep tabs. On who else is out there. There's some guy called Griffin Cleveland who kind of Speaker 4 (6:42) looks like you as a child. Speaker 2 (6:44) Oh, boy. It's Speaker 3 (6:44) a Speaker 4 (6:44) little alarming. Have Speaker 3 (6:46) we Speaker 4 (6:46) covered the mythical Speaker 2 (6:47) creature in any film? I think there was a Griffin in Dungeons and Dragons. Yeah. Yeah. If not both Dungeons and Dragons that we covered. I don't think we've covered a movie that has a Griffin character. Speaker 2 (7:04) No. Speaker 4 (7:05) I Speaker 2 (7:05) think we're done. There Speaker 4 (7:07) was Speaker 2 (7:08) one recently. There was one recently? What was it? Because I just remembered one. You say yours. I think Gary Shandling plays a character named Griffin in Mixed Nuts, possibly. I think, I mean, now we're definitely done. That, that, that, that's the Speaker 4 (7:22) end. Speaker 2 (7:22) This movie also, let's just say, is very much reflective of my temperament. This is a movie that is very much my vibe. It's a downtown movie. And you are downtown Griffin Newman. And this is a downtown movie. Gary Shanley's character Speaker 4 (7:35) in Mixed Nuts is called Stanley. So you made that up. Speaker 2 (7:39) There's some other Gary Shanley movie. You know what it is? It's Town and Country. We haven't covered it yet. We will cover it when we do Warren Beatty. Absolutely. Yes. What's on your hat? Speaker 3 (7:48) Fucking Edge of Tomorrow. Oh, Griff. Speaker 2 (7:52) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (7:53) Yes, Speaker 2 (7:53) Kit Gurry. Sure. Yes. What's on your hat? So my hat is the graffiti from Jaws. I wore it because I thought it looked close to the classic bathroom graffiti in After Hours of the Man Having His Dick Bitten by a Shark. Speaker 1 (8:11) Really beautiful. Speaker 2 (8:13) It's really good. And let's even, in honor of this episode, call it graffiti. Speaker 1 (8:17) Wow. Wow. Speaker 2 (8:18) Who's our guest? We're done. Everyone's like so stunned by the profundity of what Speaker 4 (8:22) I'm saying. Speaker 2 (8:22) We're just really done. Our guest today. Yes. And this is the first time we've had to do this. There was almost an act of negotiation, not between us, but with herself. Within herself. Yeah. Of how she wanted to be introduced. Story Speaker 1 (8:35) of my life. Speaker 2 (8:36) Yes. You may know them as merely a handle and an avatar. Speaker 1 (8:43) Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:44) At... Bald and out, but that's not who's on the podcast today. Today, who's on the podcast is Ali Sivi. That is how she is being introduced. Yeah. We feel good. Did that feel comfortable? That felt good. That felt good. Speaker 4 (8:56) Did you make the bald and out picture? Like, did you create that in Photoshop or whatever? No, I met Speaker 1 (9:04) a friend on Twitter named Lachlan, and I tweeted one day out of the blue. I was just in a weird mood. I was having sort of an after hours type of week. I was like, can anyone Photoshop and out bald for me? And there it was in my replies. And the rest is history. There she is. I did absolutely no labor. Speaker 2 (9:22) Now, did you have to acquire the rights at some point to just do a full buyout? Speaker 1 (9:27) Now that Speaker 2 (9:28) it's yours, kind of. Speaker 1 (9:29) For the first six months, I would have intense nightmares that Ann Dowd was going to sue me. Speaker 4 (9:35) Right. Speaker 1 (9:36) She's very litigious. Famously. No, I used to go around asking people, like, do you think Ann Dowd is litigious? Like, what's the story? Because she plays a villain so well. But then when I met her, she's like, honey, I would Speaker 2 (9:46) never sue you. Speaker 1 (9:47) And I was like, I needed to, like, I just, like, my body just, like, unclenched. in a way that I didn't realize I had to unclench. Speaker 4 (9:55) Was she like, why am I bald? Like, did she, was she perturbed Speaker 1 (9:59) at Speaker 4 (9:59) all? Okay, okay. Speaker 1 (10:00) No, not perturbed. She was just like, what's the story? And Speaker 3 (10:03) I'm bald Speaker 1 (10:03) because, right. And I don't know. I could not tell you. Speaker 2 (10:08) I need to just close the loop on this quickly. The other two, of course. We said we were done, but okay. And I just told you I need to close the loop. Right, right, exactly. D-U-N-N-E. Speaker 2 (10:20) David Spade's Invisible Man from the Hotel Transylvania trilogy. Of course, it's named Griffin, which is a reference to the character from the books in the original Universal movies. And Michael Stolberg's Alien from Men in Black 3. End of list. Why Speaker 4 (10:34) is he called Speaker 2 (10:34) Griffin? I don't know. I do love Stolberg. I just saw Speaker 1 (10:38) the clip of him talking to Timothy at the end of Call Me By Your Name and it made me... Cry. That's Speaker 2 (10:43) quite a good performance. Speaker 4 (10:44) That clip will make you cry. It's funny. It would be funnier if you were like, I just saw a clip of him in a black t Speaker 1 (10:49) -shirt. Speaker 4 (10:49) Just like, I'm Speaker 1 (10:49) not feeling it. It Speaker 4 (10:50) made Speaker 1 (10:50) me Speaker 2 (10:50) cry. At the end when he can't figure out what to order at the diner. Is that what he does? Yeah. Remember, he's an alien where his brain is a planet and he can predict every timeline. Speaker 4 (10:59) He's got Speaker 2 (11:00) a choose your own adventure brain. And so he's trying to talk them into making the right branching timeline choices. Sounds like a Speaker 1 (11:07) tearjerker. It's kind of the after hours Speaker 2 (11:09) of the Men in Black trilogy. It mostly takes place in one night. I've seen that movie more than once. Yes, same. Including on this Speaker 4 (11:15) podcast, but it's not really lodged in the old brainy box. But you know what? It is after Speaker 3 (11:20) hours. Speaker 4 (11:20) After hours. This is Speaker 3 (11:21) a Speaker 4 (11:21) movie I've seen so many times. I put it on just because. My job to watch the movie before I do this show. Yeah. And it was one of those things where I was like, I don't even need to do this. Like as it's happening, I was just like, yep, it's all in there already, baby. You know Speaker 2 (11:33) what's surprising? This is my favorite Martin Scorsese film, Speaker 4 (11:36) unsurprisingly. It's not the one I think Speaker 2 (11:37) is best, but it's the one Speaker 4 (11:38) that obviously just Speaker 2 (11:39) sticks to my ribs, right? I've seen it many times. Every time I watch it, I'm a little surprised by it because my memory of it is different than the act of watching in real time. I Speaker 1 (11:49) experienced this last night. Yeah. There were things that I completely forgot about. Speaker 2 (11:53) I always forget that he gets to her apartment that quickly. Very quickly. Yeah. Right away. I always think there's more conflict to get there because I know, well, he loses the money. It's just the cab ride. No. And it's things get bad once he leaves her place. Speaker 4 (12:07) I never take a yellow cab anymore. No one ever does, sadly. You know, we're all taking Lyft or whatever. But that is what it was like. Speaker 2 (12:17) It Speaker 4 (12:17) is. You never put your seatbelt on. Speaker 2 (12:19) No, and also, that was a real kind of throwback moment of that little, what do they even call it? The basket, I think he said? Speaker 4 (12:27) Yeah, Speaker 2 (12:27) the little Speaker 4 (12:27) basket you put the money in. The New York yellow Speaker 2 (12:29) cab thing. See, our guest is so young that she doesn't even know what we're talking about. Speaker 4 (12:32) But that there was the plexiglass partition, and Speaker 2 (12:35) then there was this little kind of like basket with a hinge where you would stuff the money in and then push it, and then they would pull it out the other side. And it's such a dumb fucking rookie move on his part to be like, I'm storing it here for later for the payment rather than do it at the moment. Speaker 4 (12:53) Yes. You do, you know, he's, I, I also, the, the, um, the, the receipt sound of a taxi, which I was used for the smoke monster and lost. Oh, if you ever listened to it. Yes. Kind of an after hours on the island. Burned in my brain. Yeah. Things Speaker 2 (13:12) go wrong. Um, hello, Allie. Welcome to blank. Speaker 1 (13:15) Thank you for having me. You're welcome. Speaker 2 (13:17) There was some back and forth in terms of figuring out the right episode to get you on. We knew we wanted you on the show. It feels like we landed on the right place. Yeah. Especially with this being your favorite. This Speaker 1 (13:28) is Speaker 2 (13:28) my favorite. Yes. It's so good. I Speaker 1 (13:32) love Alice, though, too. But this is my number one. Speaker 4 (13:35) Right. You were thinking maybe doing Alice. Yeah. Doesn't live here anymore. If you want to shout out Alice, of course. Shout out. Shoot the Speaker 1 (13:40) dog. Speaker 4 (13:41) But. you know, this sort of young downtown energy of After Hours. It's a New York-y movie about being crazy. We all Speaker 3 (13:50) can relate to this, I feel, in a very Speaker 4 (13:52) profound way. I have never been a diner waitress. Speaker 2 (13:56) No. Speaker 4 (13:56) I have been a Speaker 2 (13:57) little bit of a Paul Hackett. I think everyone has. Paul Hackett is like the shadow self. He's exactly how you hope you are not perceived by others in the world. Right. Not as evil, but just like. Speaker 1 (14:10) He's so stupid. I forgot how stupid he was. He's so lame Speaker 2 (14:14) in a lot of ways. Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:16) You Speaker 2 (14:16) know, and it's fascinating because when he wants to be, Griffin Dunn can be like the most charming person in the world. Speaker 1 (14:22) There are moments of that. Totally. Speaker 2 (14:25) But it feels like Scorsese was like, you got to tamp it down. Yeah. You know, like, don't win over the audience at every moment. He's Speaker 1 (14:33) like, Speaker 2 (14:33) don't have Speaker 1 (14:33) sex for eight weeks. One Speaker 2 (14:34) of the great stories. Speaker 1 (14:35) Do you know this, Ben? We Speaker 2 (14:37) will talk. Wow. Yeah. There's some great details about this. But this is also, this is a fascinating, just to get ahead of it, this is a project Griffin Dunn develops because he doesn't feel like there are good roles out there. And he's like, I'm going to make the movies for myself. His producing partner is Amy Robinson, who was the female lead in Mean Streets. And this movie, in one of the most fascinating what-if, a what-if alternate timeline that only Griffin from Men in Black 3 could consider, was originally offered and signed on to direct. the debut film of Tim Burton. Off of Frankenweenie, it was supposed to be Tim Burton's debut feature film. Speaker 4 (15:18) But we definitely talked about this on our Tim Burton miniseries, I think. We Speaker 2 (15:21) did. Speaker 4 (15:21) Yeah, no, because it's Speaker 2 (15:22) a fascinating thing. And then Amy Robinson's like, it's a crazy idea. Can I send this to Marty and see if he wants to do it? Why not? I'm going to say it's always worth just shooting Marty a text. Speaker 1 (15:35) I Speaker 2 (15:35) know his phone number. Yeah. 1-800-SCORCESI. 1-800-SCORCESI. Speaker 1 (15:39) It's a direct line. It works every time. He can Speaker 4 (15:41) text from it and everything. Speaker 1 (15:43) Wasn't Burton also like, I don't want to get in the way of Marty. Yeah, I think Burton. Give it to him. Speaker 4 (15:47) Right. We'll talk about it. But right. Burton was like, Martin Scorsese? I'll do something else. Speaker 1 (15:51) I'll Speaker 4 (15:52) do Pee Wee. That's Speaker 1 (15:54) crazy. I had no idea that he directed Pee Wee until very recently. Wow. Speaker 2 (15:58) Educating the youth. Speaker 1 (15:59) It's also fascinating. Speaker 2 (15:59) I'm Speaker 4 (16:00) going Speaker 2 (16:00) to stop it with it now. You are a grown person. When you watch the Pee Wee Is Himself documentary that's so fucking good, Paul Rubens talks about how haunted he was by like... Tim Burton getting all the credit for Pee-wee, where he was like, this guy was like a rocket ship and everyone assumed he was the genius and I wish I had directed it myself. And then nowadays people are like, he directed that? Burton started there? He wasn't birthed out in Beetlejuice? Right. I know Gryffindor a little bit. We'll talk about it further in this episode. But the way he told the story to me one time is that he was really contrite and he went to Tim Burton and he was like, Tim, this is like a really difficult conversation, but Martin Scorsese is kind of interested in doing this movie. Now, I'm not like firing you. We can talk about it. And Burton was like, are you kidding me? You owe me zero apology. If Martin Scorsese wants to make your movie, I wouldn't dare make a movie that he's even flirting with. Speaker 1 (16:59) Like, Speaker 2 (17:00) settled. Absolutely. You owe me no apologies. All good. Congrats to you. And then he just like immediately rebounds onto Pee Wee, which comes out. The same year or the year after this? I think it's the year after. Is it 86 or 87? After Hours Speaker 1 (17:16) is 85. This film Speaker 4 (17:17) is 85, but Speaker 2 (17:18) so is Pee Speaker 4 (17:20) Wee. Speaker 1 (17:20) Wow. Speaker 4 (17:21) Same year. What came out Speaker 1 (17:23) first, After Hours? Speaker 4 (17:23) This came out a month later, September. Wow. Wait, what's the release Speaker 1 (17:27) date of each one? I'm doing signs. Speaker 4 (17:29) September 13th for After Speaker 2 (17:30) Hours. Speaker 4 (17:30) Good, signs for everything. That's Speaker 1 (17:31) Virgo. Speaker 4 (17:31) Virgo, which does not fit After Hours at all. No. But I guess... I guess studios probably don't take that into account Speaker 1 (17:37) when setting release dates. No, I don't think they're thinking about it. I'm seeing Speaker 2 (17:39) here that Pee-wee's sign is a pancake face. Wow. With bacon mouth. Pee-wee, August 9th. So a Leo. That's Speaker 1 (17:45) a Leo. That makes sense. Makes more Speaker 2 (17:47) sense. Pee-wee's a lion. Speaker 1 (17:49) Yeah. You know, Speaker 2 (17:50) he's got a... Speaker 1 (17:52) God. Bravado. A mighty Speaker 2 (17:53) mane. We Speaker 1 (17:54) all have those images from childhood that are like so formative and burned into our brains. And Pee Wee rescuing animals from the burning. One Speaker 2 (18:01) of the funniest. Pat Speaker 1 (18:02) Storr is just like, it's like my first memory almost. That's beautiful. Speaker 2 (18:06) You were raised well. Speaker 1 (18:07) My dad was a huge Pee Wee head. It's Speaker 2 (18:09) maybe the funniest movie ever made. I saw it again recently in theaters. And it is insane how joke dense that movie is and how 50 % of the jokes are jokes that still feel like one of one. I Speaker 1 (18:20) need to rewatch. I haven't seen it as an adult. Speaker 4 (18:22) I don't think it's the funniest movie ever made, but as I'm sure we said at the time, it is maybe the funniest movie ever made where the ingredients do not seem like you're like, how could this be good? And then you watch it and you're like, oh my God, it's so good. You Speaker 2 (18:35) know Speaker 4 (18:35) what I mean? Speaker 2 (18:36) Almost everything that's funny in it, you can't explain in a way that sounds funny. Speaker 4 (18:40) We Speaker 1 (18:40) covered. Speaker 4 (18:42) Well, if you ever thought, obviously, you weren't on our period. No, trying to explain Speaker 1 (18:45) anything kind of kills it. This is true. Speaker 4 (18:47) Anyway, let's explain the movie After Hours. Speaker 2 (18:50) When did you first see After Hours, Griffin Newman? If this is a big sort of Griffey movie. My parents would joke that I was named after Griffin Dunn. Funny. Because I was named after nothing and for no reason. As I maybe Speaker 4 (19:01) said before, Speaker 2 (19:02) my parents had lists that they had created and didn't agree on anything. My mom, it was all like Gallic names. Gaelic? Oh, French names. Seamus? No, no, like Irish. Oh, Gaelic. I'm sorry. Gaelic names. Seamus? Yes. Imagine if he was called Seamus. I can kind Speaker 1 (19:21) of see Speaker 3 (19:22) it. It was shit like that. Speaker 2 (19:23) And then as my Speaker 3 (19:24) father put it. We could be like, for shame. Speaker 4 (19:28) You're late again. Speaker 3 (19:29) Yeah, okay. Speaker 4 (19:30) As my Speaker 2 (19:30) father put Speaker 3 (19:31) it, his list of names... Speaker 4 (19:32) Wait, Speaker 3 (19:33) that Speaker 4 (19:34) kind of works. Speaker 3 (19:35) I know. Speaker 2 (19:36) But Speaker 3 (19:36) it would have to be Speaker 4 (19:36) David and Seamus. David and Seamus. That's fine. Speaker 2 (19:40) Here's the other side of the equation. My father's list was all, as he puts it, R &B singer or blaxploitation character names. Such as? So the top two he always mentioned were Rufus and Tyrone. Speaker 4 (19:55) Your parents were so cracked out, my friend. Speaker 2 (19:58) I don't know what to say. They were living that fucking after hours life. You come out and they're like, I'm fucking Tyrone Speaker 3 (20:04) for Speaker 2 (20:05) this guy. He's like, my parents wanted Speaker 1 (20:07) to name me Sinbad. But Speaker 2 (20:08) they were basically like, Griffin is the only name that kind of fits into both lines of thinking. Sort of. Was named for, yeah, zero reason. And then they'd always joke when people were like, why do you name him Griffin? It was like, Griffin Dunn. Of course, Griffin Dunn. So I, when I'd ask who's Griffin Dunn, because he wasn't in a lot of kids' movies, they'd be like, he's this guy and he was big in the 80s and he did this movie After Hours. And then my parents would explain After Hours to me. And it felt like a mythical premise for a movie. Like I remember from a very young age, hearing it and thinking that's one of the best ideas for a movie I've ever heard of. A guy goes downtown, loses the $20 in his wallet. And then he's stuck and he can't get back home and he can't get on the subway and yada, yada, yada. And I was like, that sounds fun. I can't wait until I'm old enough to see that. And I probably saw it when I was like 13 or 14. Sure. That's my Speaker 4 (21:00) story. Okay, Speaker 2 (21:00) so pretty early. But it felt a little faded. Speaker 4 (21:02) Yeah. I saw this movie in college when I was like, okay, I'll watch all the margins, right? And this was the, and I think so many people have this experience. I felt I was discovering something. It's fun. Speaker 3 (21:13) Well, but also just, I was like, what's this one? He Speaker 2 (21:15) directed Speaker 4 (21:16) this? Right. Speaker 3 (21:17) Like, you Speaker 2 (21:17) know, just that. Yes. Which Speaker 4 (21:19) is great when you're, you know, a youth and you're figuring out movies all by yourself and the internet's not telling you what to do. Speaker 2 (21:24) We Speaker 4 (21:25) were Speaker 2 (21:25) talking about this with Stavi, but I feel like for a while, King of Comedy was the I'm not like the others. I think it's this. And things have now, I think, swung around to after hours. I think our generation, and I say our generation because we're all the exact same age in this room right now. Speaker 1 (21:40) Yeah. Speaker 2 (21:41) I just turned Speaker 1 (21:42) 40. Speaker 2 (21:42) We're all young 40 and thriving. I'm Speaker 4 (21:45) Paul Rudd. Who else is in that movie? Speaker 2 (21:47) Leslie Mann, Jason Segel, Albert Brooks. What's Segel doing in that one? He's being Speaker 4 (21:52) the horny guy from Knocked Up. Segel reprises his Speaker 2 (21:53) character and he's a personal fitness coach. Is he good? Kind of. Speaker 2 (21:59) He's Speaker 4 (21:59) very good at knocked up. Yes. Because you're like, he made a choice, which I think is funny. Everyone else is just like, I'll just be myself, which is fine. But Siegel's like, I'm going to do this thing. Right. Speaker 2 (22:10) It's also funny that that's what leads to the launch pad of him being a leading man when none of his leading man roles are like that. Oh, right. But it's also funny that he's the only one of the friend group in that movie, including Seth Rogen. That they're like, we've kept in touch with Siegel. That guy who hit on your wife at the Speaker 4 (22:28) club. Speaker 2 (22:28) Who kept Speaker 4 (22:28) talking about tits. Right. Yeah. Speaker 2 (22:31) Do you care about the cinema to Apatow? Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes. Speaker 4 (22:34) Yeah. Speaker 4 (22:37) What was I just saying? Speaker 2 (22:39) This is 40. We're all 40. That this has become the cool one. When did you see this for the first time? Speaker 4 (22:45) Last Speaker 1 (22:46) month. Right, Speaker 2 (22:47) right. This was Speaker 1 (22:48) like my Marty, like a big Marty blind spot for me. Speaker 2 (22:51) And Speaker 1 (22:52) I knew it was, it seemed like a very me movie. Yes. I don't know why I had never tapped in, but immediately I was like, oh, this is, this is my favorite one. Do you Speaker 2 (23:01) think part of things circling around to this becoming the cool pick? is that it is such a snapshot of a time where you could be this disconnected. Yes. That everything that was like an anxiety dream about this movie when it was released of imagine everything went wrong is almost a little bit like satisfying to think about. Like you could just actually, if you didn't have $20 in your pocket, be off the grid. There's no phone. There's no Apple Pay. There's like, you're fucked. And New York could still have neighborhoods that were this undeveloped. Speaker 1 (23:36) Yeah, Soho now, like, they're putting an Ikea in Soho. Like, it's just such a different, we needed this. Oh, my Speaker 3 (23:42) God. Speaker 1 (23:43) It's just such a different New York. Yes. The whole time I was like, God, his Instagram stories would be going crazy right now. Right, he'd be posting through it. Speaker 4 (23:50) He would be posting through it. It's Speaker 1 (23:52) so Speaker 4 (23:52) much better now. I mean, then, not now. Yes, Speaker 2 (23:55) yes. Speaker 1 (23:56) But I was also like, you can walk. Like, I understand that defeats the whole purpose of the movie. I don't want to be that guy, but like, out, like. Less than 90 minutes, you can make it up to 91st from there. Like, I've done it. Speaker 2 (24:06) I think it says a lot about the characterization of this movie that you buy that Paul is a guy who would go, I can find a shortcut rather than just start walking uptown. And I also think part of why this movie being set specifically in Soho at this exact time period is good because it kind of feels like a place where it'd be tough to get your bearings in New York. Yeah, you're right below the Speaker 1 (24:28) grid. Right, you're Speaker 2 (24:29) below the grid. Thompson Street? Speaker 1 (24:31) What is that? Speaker 2 (24:32) Right, the blocks are weird shapes. You're below numbers. As a Soho worker, the blocks aren't that weird. You've got some weird, you've got some triangles in there and shit. If you go over to the west side, I suppose. But also it's these big, wide open streets without lights. Speaker 1 (24:49) It was so dark. Speaker 2 (24:51) Yeah. it's a wet ass sidewalk i want to make a soho cannon Speaker 4 (24:54) and i i need to look you know miss 45 the the ferraro movie is also ho that's one uh unfaithful the the adrian line movie has a lot of great soho stuff you know it's such an interesting landscape uh mini landscape within new york because of what you're talking about you know the kind of weird uh the cobblestones uh big open streets like, you know, all the beautiful cast iron buildings. Like, it looks a little, it's like gorgeous, but it's a little encased. It's a little different. And this is Speaker 2 (25:23) the last time that Soho is captured as just being like, this is where freak artists lives in giant cavernous apartments that no one wants. Speaker 1 (25:32) That apartment is exactly what I thought New York was going to be as a kid. This Speaker 4 (25:36) is whatever. My mom has a story about this when she lived in Manhattan at this time. And she was downtown in Soho, like getting coffee at some cool coffee place with her friend, you know, and they're being cool New Yorkers. And then her friend saw her mom on a walking tour of Soho being like led around by, you know, in a group of like nice old ladies being shown. And, and my mom's friend was just like, Oh, Speaker 3 (25:58) Soho is over. This is it. That's it. Like fucking like this is happening. It's over. It's not cool anymore. Speaker 4 (26:05) Yeah. And Speaker 2 (26:05) Soho was over. Speaker 1 (26:06) Wow. It Speaker 3 (26:07) is Speaker 2 (26:07) funny. Now Speaker 4 (26:07) it's all boutiques where if I walked in Speaker 2 (26:09) there, they would throw me out. This movie might have prolonged Soho's scariness for another decade, where even as it was being developed from a distance, outsiders weren't thinking to visit there. Speaker 1 (26:21) No. Now it's just people waiting in line for like a croissant that sucks. Speaker 4 (26:25) And they do suck. They're bad. We both work in Soho. They're all bad. If Speaker 1 (26:29) you're ever waiting in line in Manhattan. For something. You're a Speaker 4 (26:34) fool. Speaker 1 (26:34) For anything. For anything. It's not going to be good. Speaker 2 (26:36) No. This is true. You should never wait in a Manhattan line. There's something. There's Lindustry Pizza. No, no. There's one thing even worse, which is paying someone to wait in line for you. If you do that, go to the Gulag. Speaker 1 (26:49) Yeah. That's the least New Yorker shit in the Speaker 2 (26:51) world. I know people who have done that. And they're excommunicated from my life. You're going to want to Speaker 1 (26:55) walk to the Hudson and then just keep walking. Speaker 2 (26:57) Keep walking to it. Keep Speaker 1 (26:58) going. Yep. Speaker 2 (26:59) Maybe you'll see someone. Speaker 1 (27:00) Yeah, no, there's a Supreme store. Speaker 2 (27:02) Take a long walk off of Chelsea Pier. That's Speaker 4 (27:05) what I say to those Speaker 1 (27:05) people. Speaker 4 (27:06) It's a very New York episode, but that makes sense because we're talking about After Hours, a great 80s New York movie. I'm going to open the dossier, guys. We're just, we're just, we're just, you know, we're circling it. Speaker 1 (27:17) It's one of the classic things that happens on this fire show. Speaker 2 (27:21) I like that she's canonizing our iconic status. Our show is Speaker 4 (27:26) fire. Speaker 2 (27:27) It is not Speaker 1 (27:27) chopped and Speaker 3 (27:28) unk. Speaker 2 (27:29) No. Our show has never been less. I Speaker 3 (27:31) don't know, guys. Yeah, it's pretty chopped. And we're pretty young. Speaker 2 (27:34) We are very young. It's not chopped. It's approaching. Speaker 1 (27:36) Neither Speaker 2 (27:36) you nor I are uncles. Neither am I. No, Speaker 3 (27:40) I am an uncle. Yeah, Ben Speaker 2 (27:41) is. Yeah. Speaker 3 (27:42) Like Speaker 2 (27:42) a Speaker 3 (27:43) by marriage. My Speaker 4 (27:43) wife's older brother. Uncle Speaker 3 (27:45) by marriage. Yeah. Had a son, I guess, a year ago. Wow. Yeah. Shout out. Uncle Ben. Uncle Speaker 2 (27:51) Ben. Speaker 4 (27:52) Watch out Speaker 2 (27:52) for it. Watch out for the Green Goblin or any other muggers. Yeah. I also was going to say, watch out for the woke police. They're going to kick your face off the rice bag. Have Speaker 1 (28:01) your wrists been shooting weird shit? So far, no. Everyone's just got an Uncle Speaker 2 (28:05) Ben thing they want to say. Stumbling over each other. Speaker 4 (28:22) The King of Comedy is the prior film in Martin Scorsese's career. Made at 200 Speaker 2 (28:27) domestic. Oh, right. Also, Speaker 1 (28:30) everyone is just pumpkin now. That is every person now. That is unfortunately Speaker 4 (28:35) true. It was very on the money about where fans of things were headed. But Martin Scorsese, of course, after making that movie, is very focused on making his follow-up. The Last Temptation of Christ, okay? Which also, he wanted to have made 10 years earlier. Right. Paul Schrader had condensed a 600-page novel to a 90-minute script for him. He rewrote it with Jay Cox. Marnie added a little bit with Jay Cox. In 83, Paramount, which is headed by Barry Diller and Michael Eisner and Jeff Katzenberg, you know, who obviously all, you know, dominate Hollywood for the next 15, 20 years in various ways. Greenlight the movie. And then as they start to like scout locations, figure out casting, hear from nuns and priests around the world, Paramount gets cold feet. Katzenberg Speaker 2 (29:27) and Eisner suddenly find out that the movie is about Jesus Christ. Something that had overlooked Speaker 1 (29:33) up Speaker 4 (29:34) until that point. You Speaker 1 (29:35) know, Speaker 4 (29:35) Aidan Quinn was going to play the Christ in that film. And obviously he's very young and beautiful at that time. And they apparently were okay with that. Marty says that some of the other casting people were nervous about will probably cover that whole saga whenever we, you know, for our last Temptation episode. I imagine so. And then the religious protests start to, you know, bubble up and all that. And Paramount is just... And also they were going to shoot in Israel. And back then you just didn't do that that much. Speaker 2 (30:04) Why? It's a normal place. Speaker 4 (30:06) I don't mean Israel specifically. I mean, just like, you know, shoot giant parts of your movie in far off places. Like, you know, it was just... Speaker 2 (30:12) This is Speaker 4 (30:12) true. Speaker 2 (30:12) Everything was L.A. Right. Speaker 4 (30:14) Like the way Marty puts it is like Star Trek 4, the reason they're in San Francisco is the Paramount Speaker 2 (30:20) was like, that's as far as we want you Speaker 4 (30:22) going. Speaker 2 (30:23) That's basically an overseas shoot. Yeah, Speaker 4 (30:26) like a one hour flight from L.A. Basically, that's fine. Yeah. So it falls apart. The right stuff comes out. The Irvin Winkler production, obviously. Another huge flop. Does so poorly. That is the final blow. They're just like this auteur shit, big budget auteur shit. We just don't like it. Jack Lang, the French minister of culture, then tries to get French money just from the government of France to fund that movie. Exactly. Very well said. Jesus would have to say that in the movie. That's the Speaker 3 (31:00) proviso. Speaker 4 (31:02) Harry Offland is Marty's super agent. At the time, he starts shopping around other studios. But Marty's like, I need to survive. Like, my last movie was a bomb. Yes. I can't go crazy. Like, my response to Christ falling apart can't be just to, like, go renegade. This is his Raiders of the Lost Ark. Speaker 2 (31:22) I need to show people I can be responsible and play ball. There is a screenplay written by Joseph Minion. Quite a good name. Speaker 1 (31:30) 21, right? Speaker 2 (31:31) Yeah. That's so crazy. I think it was a film school project, right? Yeah, it was his senior thesis, I think. Speaker 1 (31:37) He got an A. Speaker 4 (31:40) Congratulations. He got a gold star. The film was originally called Lies. Then it was retitled A Night in Soho. It was written as his Columbia thesis. He said, I was under the spell of Kafka. I was obsessed with Orson Welles' The Trial. Also things like David Mamet plays, which are like set in one night or whatever. Henry Miller, Norman Mailer's The American Dream. I was frantically like moving apartments in New York when I wrote it. So that energy is in there a little bit. Like I felt homeless in New York, right? Like, you know, that's, he's putting a little bit of that in. He was just kind of going crazy and he wrote After Hours, which is so good. Speaker 2 (32:22) It's a pretty perfect screenplay. Speaker 4 (32:24) It really is. The film's obviously well-directed Speaker 2 (32:27) by Martin Scorsese. Have you heard him? Yes. You're never going to believe this, David. It's actually a really funny coincidence. He is the director we're currently covering on this fire-unchopped podcast. But I do think this screenplay is so clever and perfect. Yes. It is. It's a Money in the Bank premise. It is one of those movies that kind of is like unofficially remade every five years. I feel like people keep trying to do it and no one has ever gotten close. Right. It's wild how it feels easy. The Speaker 4 (33:00) one Speaker 2 (33:00) crazy Speaker 4 (33:01) night sort of movie. Well, you could just riff on this. Speaker 2 (33:03) And even the amount of people who have done the New York version of it alone. I mean, even in the last 10 years, there was the night before is basically doing this on Christmas Eve. Speaker 4 (33:13) Nick and Nora's infinite playlist. Speaker 2 (33:15) The Lovebirds, the completely forgotten Michael Showalter directed Issa Rae, Kumail Nanjiani comedy. I never saw that because I was kind of a COVID movie. It was one of the first. planned wide theatrical release movies that they just announced it's going on fucking streaming. They sold it to Netflix immediately. It's not very good. And you, I remember even, I auditioned for like a couple small parts in that. And on paper, you were like, yeah, sure. It's been too long since someone tried to make After Hours. These are the right people. This is, this will be funny. It never works. Speaker 1 (33:46) No, I think like you said, it just setting it in. any modern year is not, it just takes the magic out of it. Phone Speaker 2 (33:53) heard it. That's Speaker 1 (33:54) a Speaker 2 (33:54) lot of it. And I also think a lot of it is that people try to pile up too much incident. They get too crazy with the one crazy night. Speaker 4 (34:03) Yeah. What's, you know, the way that date night descends into like guns and spies and all that shit. Another Speaker 2 (34:08) perfect example. Speaker 4 (34:08) Date night is Speaker 2 (34:09) action movie after hours. Have a good time. Speaker 4 (34:12) Oh, sure. I Speaker 1 (34:13) mean, that's like the Speaker 4 (34:14) worst version. Right. Uncut Gems. They Speaker 2 (34:18) share so Speaker 1 (34:18) much DNA. That Speaker 2 (34:19) also it goes a little more into crime thriller. Do you know what I'm saying? Yes, you're right. Because I think if it's like things spiraling out of control after crime go wrong, that's different than the after hours, which is, quote unquote, this happens to an ordinary person. Okay. Speaker 1 (34:34) Yeah. Speaker 2 (34:35) Ordinary-ish, right. You know, the yuppie nightmare. It's Speaker 1 (34:37) funny the whole way through. You're stressed out, but it remains funny the entire time. It's hilarious. Speaker 2 (34:42) And you want to see him go through the ring. That's the other part of it. Yeah. Go on, Allie. Speaker 1 (34:46) No, there's a point in any Safdie crime movie where, like, the anxiety just overtakes everything. You're not feeling any humor anymore. Speaker 4 (34:53) Yes. And you're with a person who, through some lenses, might be considered villainous. I mean, in good time. Toxic. Yeah. He's a Speaker 2 (35:00) little, yeah, a little toxic. Yeah. Main character syndrome at times. But I think that's another part of it is that this movie has a take on this character because he is the yuppie nightmare. People miscalculate thinking, oh, if you make it more of an everyman and the audience is let in and the character is a surrogate, it becomes more of a conventionally fun comedy where you're watching them struggle. Them going, what? Speaker 4 (35:27) What's happening? Speaker 2 (35:28) Instead, you want... a character where you want to see the screws turn in on them. Speaker 1 (35:32) Yeah. And him being sort of an everyman makes it better because as soon as Rosanna Arquette dies, you're like, well, where the fuck is this going for the next hour? Yes. Speaker 2 (35:39) When Speaker 1 (35:40) everything is coming from the people around him, you don't know. You Speaker 2 (35:43) think it's good that Rosanna Arquette dies? You like her death? I think his reaction to it is so funny. It's so funny. Speaker 4 (35:48) He's Speaker 1 (35:49) like, Speaker 3 (35:49) fuck. Speaker 4 (35:50) Exactly. Exactly. JJ wants to point out, I think this is interesting, you know, the... Unmentioned thing is that The film is very obviously influenced by Joe Frank the writer and performer Of radio dramas and monologues It's been alleged by Joe Frank And others that the opening Act is basically ripping off a 1982 monologue he had Called Lies which is the First title of this script Which had this 10 minute Segment about meeting a weird woman in Greenwich Village And he says, like, I saw the movie. I was like, oh, yeah, like this part is ripping me off. And then he was like, to be clear, the rest of the movie is not like. Yeah. Then it goes in whatever direction it wants. But I'm clearly, you know, being ripped off here. A 2000 profile of him by Salon. Remember Salon? Oh, boy, Speaker 2 (36:41) do I. Speaker 4 (36:41) Says that he was paid off for a film that had plagiarized some of his dialogue. That definitely is After Hours. They don't say the name, but that he did get a settlement one day for something like that. You can listen to the monologue. He's linked to it. And I'll read this URL right now. No, I won't. It'll be linked in the description. Sure we can. It's in the dossier there. You can link it out. Anyway, this script finds its way to Amy Robinson and Griffin Dunn via one of his teachers, Dusan Makajev. I don't know. He's a Serbian director who taught at Columbia. Gives it over to Amy Robinson, who loves the script. thinks it's so crazy and dark and cool. And I mean, I guess the real question is, Speaker 2 (37:25) is like, is Griffin Dunn famous? No, no, this is what I want to zoom out for a second to talk about. So Amy Robinson, who produced the film with Griffin Dunn, and is very good in Mean Streets and basically doesn't act again, has a Speaker 4 (37:38) couple Speaker 2 (37:38) little things, but was very open about the Speaker 4 (37:41) female lead of Speaker 2 (37:42) Mean Streets. She was very open about that. She just felt like the stuff she was reading was dog shit. Sure. And