Construction Reality Check

Bill to...etc.

In this episode, interior designers Dena Holland and Ariana Paolino provide a transparent breakdown of the actual costs involved in high-end

Key takeaways

• A high-end kitchen renovation in the Boston area typically ranges from $150,000 to $200,000 including labor.
• Semi-custom cabinetry for a standard 9-foot island kitchen can cost at least $65,000.

Main topics

• Kitchen Renovation Budgets
• Bathroom Remodeling Costs

Notable quotes

It is a luxury service.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a sobering reality check for anyone planning hig

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) you Speaker 1 (0:02) Welcome to Built to Etc. I'm your host, Dena Holland, founder of Honey and Fitz Interiors. And I'm your co-host, Ariana Paolino, lead project designer. We're bringing you behind the scenes of running a design firm. Beautiful projects. Ugly budgets. Client curveballs. Vendor excuses. And all the chaos required to make a room look effortless. We're going to talk design. Speaker 2 (0:20) Business. How we stay in business. Objectifying men. Why our jeans aren't fitting this week. Who Speaker 1 (0:26) did something to piss us off and why we're right. We're going to talk about whatever we feel like. How's that? A Speaker 2 (0:30) quick disclaimer. Speaker 1 (0:31) We're Speaker 2 (0:31) opinionated, Speaker 1 (0:32) we're Speaker 2 (0:33) occasionally Speaker 1 (0:33) petty, and we swear like grown women. And while we love your children, this podcast is probably not for them. Because some things get billed to the client. And some things get billed to, etc. Speaker 1 (0:44) Grabbed random shit and went up to the register and then as soon as I paid I was like, what Speaker 2 (0:48) did I Speaker 1 (0:48) get? Speaker 2 (0:49) What did you get? I got twin snakes. Speaker 1 (0:52) Love. For him. That was for him. I'm not a big twin Speaker 2 (0:55) snake person. Oh Speaker 1 (0:56) my Speaker 2 (0:56) god. That was more for him. Famous Amos. Cookies. Okay. Which was always my go-to snack when I was high. Amos Speaker 1 (1:05) cookies, wow. Speaker 2 (1:06) Caramel creams. Speaker 1 (1:08) Disgusting. Butterfinger Speaker 2 (1:09) bar. What? Are you 92? What the fuck? Speaker 2 (1:14) They did. They sure did. In fact, they did. I got something else that I was like, I got to Speaker 1 (1:20) the Speaker 2 (1:20) car and I Speaker 1 (1:20) was like, what Speaker 2 (1:21) did Speaker 1 (1:21) I do? I spent 12 bucks. Speaker 2 (1:23) Oh, Speaker 1 (1:23) see, Speaker 2 (1:24) what Speaker 1 (1:24) movie Speaker 2 (1:24) did you see? Spider-Man. How was it? It was good. It was really good. I actually really liked Speaker 1 (1:28) it. Is Speaker 2 (1:28) Tom Holland hot in it? Is he? Speaker 1 (1:31) Talk slow. Tell me. Speaker 2 (1:39) He's always been an attractive person. Yes. Amen. But in the first movie, it's been, I think, like four years. At least. Since Speaker 1 (1:47) the Speaker 2 (1:47) last movie came out. And it's the weird thing of he's playing a teenager. Right, but you know he's a grown man. But he's a grown man. But you kind of have that weird, like, he doesn't think I should be attracted to this character. Speaker 1 (2:02) He's got Speaker 2 (2:02) a little baby Speaker 1 (2:02) face. Yeah. He was younger. Speaker 2 (2:05) I don't know how he, I think he's maybe my age. Tom Holland? Yeah. But so in four or five years ago when he was making that movie, him playing a teenage, like you were kind of like, I shouldn't feel like I'm attracted to this person, right? Because he's like. Imagine how I feel. Still, right. So he's like still a Speaker 1 (2:20) little. Speaker 2 (2:21) Actually, Speaker 1 (2:21) you're so right. It was always appropriate. It was always okay for you. He's 30. He's your Speaker 2 (2:25) age. He's exactly my age. Move over, Zendaya. How old is she? I think probably also 30. Good luck to you. No, no one's... She's an alien. Come Speaker 1 (2:33) on. Speaker 2 (2:33) No one's ever beating her. But in this movie, so they... It was a time jump and they did a good... Yeah, they did a good job of, like, explaining the Speaker 1 (2:43) time jump. He put on Speaker 2 (2:45) so Speaker 1 (2:46) much Speaker 2 (2:47) fun. Like, did he really? There's a scene in the movie. I feel like you've probably already seen the, like, meme of it or whatever. He has his mask on because obviously, like, he keeps his identity, whatever. But he's, like, in a steam room, like, in a whatever. So he's just has... Speaker 1 (3:02) With his Speaker 2 (3:02) Spider-Man mask on? Just his Speaker 1 (3:04) mask. New kink unlocked. Just a towel Speaker 2 (3:08) tied Speaker 1 (3:08) around. Excuse me. No. I'll Speaker 2 (3:10) be right back with you. Excuse me. Picture me sitting next to Steve. Me and Alyssa, my sister, we're looking at each other like... Yeah. What? Wait, what am I looking for? Spider-Man? Brand new day. It'll come up. I have faith in the internet. Speaker 1 (3:30) It will come up. Images. Speaker 2 (3:33) I can't. Why is... I don't want... Oh! Oh! Speaker 1 (3:36) You're seeing it. I'm so sorry. What? Speaker 2 (3:39) That one. Speaker 2 (3:41) Is this real? Yes. He does this workout. They talk about it. He does this CrossFit workout where it's literally as many... It's just pull-ups, squats, push-ups. But Speaker 1 (3:53) this is my workout. As many Speaker 2 (3:54) rounds as you can do. Like a certain amount of reps of each. M Speaker 1 (3:57) -rep. Speaker 2 (3:57) In... I don't think it's like five minutes or ten minutes or whatever. Like, shut the fuck up. Oh, wow. Zendaya continues winning in every possible category of life. She really does. Speaker 2 (4:13) Okay. And someone posted and was like, you know that they're doing this at home. This roleplay at home. Speaker 1 (4:19) If she's not doing that, she's not doing it right. Give that man away if you're not doing this. A Spider-Man mask and Speaker 2 (4:28) a towel? He's Speaker 1 (4:29) very... Good Speaker 2 (4:31) job Speaker 1 (4:32) all around. Okay, show me your meme. What did you want to show me? Speaker 2 (4:36) Man kicked out of IMAX theater after bringing fully functioning crock pot of chili and selling bowls in the back room. Speaker 1 (4:46) The caption says, free him. Yeah. Also, like, times are tough. Speaker 2 (4:51) Good for him. Also, if I was walking into, I'd be like, fucking facts. Speaker 1 (4:56) Give Speaker 2 (4:57) me some warm chicken tanga at a movie? Absolutely. He got arrested for that? No, he got kicked out. Why? Because he doesn't have a license and he hasn't been inspected Speaker 1 (5:07) and blah, blah, blah. Speaker 2 (5:09) Let him live. By the opening credits, he'd sold 19 bowls with cheese available for Speaker 1 (5:15) an extra dollar. An entrepreneur. Literally. Can a man have a hobby? Speaker 2 (5:20) A line Speaker 1 (5:21) formed. Chili Speaker 2 (5:22) started. Wait, what? Chili started? A line formed. Chili started traveling down the aisle. This is unbelievable. He's living in the future. Police said the problem wasn't the smell. It was the traffic. Because he was successful. By the way, in two weeks, that theater is going to be selling chili. He hid the pot under his coal. He what? He hit the pot under his coat, plugged it into a cleaning outlet, and then turned folded seats into a full-blown chili station. No, that's amen Speaker 1 (5:55) to this man. I love that. What a problem solver. That's incredible. That's so Speaker 2 (6:01) good. That's incredible. Speaker 1 (6:03) What's going on in your week? Actually, I know what's going on in your week. Every single day this week, Ariana sits down with 10 % more gray hair, and she goes, I don't understand why they need more Speaker 2 (6:14) tile. And you know what? It started while you were gone, as it always does. Speaker 1 (6:20) I leave and something always happens. Oh, my God. I was on vacation, and I guess while I was on vacation, we have three construction projects going on at the exact same time, in the exact same phase, which we never like to do. They are all my projects. They're Speaker 2 (6:32) all Speaker 1 (6:32) your projects. And we never like to do that. But we never even would do that. But they've all gotten... Two of them got slowed down to a point where... It was not the intention for this to Speaker 2 (6:40) be the case. Right. We planned it so that they were in... Because you can have different construction projects happening at the same time as long as they're in different phases. Like, I would say, like, they need a week and a half to two week, like, Speaker 1 (6:52) phase difference. Speaker 2 (6:54) But it Speaker 1 (6:54) just so happened because two of them got delayed for issues that... Thankfully, we were not responsible for. But still, we ended up being responsible for the time, you know, whatever. And now everyone's installing tile at the exact same time. And she's got three different contractors calling her all the time saying they need more tile. Speaker 2 (7:11) Every Speaker 1 (7:12) single one has needed more tile. And we are adding overage to these tile orders. It's this thing where like, we are trying to be conservative for our clients. Totally. I obviously want to have enough tile there for the job. So I'm adding 10 to 15. I think you added 15 % overage on these. Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:26) It varies. I mean, I base it off of like, does it look like it's going to require a lot of cuts? A lot of cuts? Or is Speaker 1 (7:32) it a six by 12? You know what I mean? Like, I know how Speaker 2 (7:36) to do my job. Speaker 1 (7:36) And of course, tile contractors, they want more than enough there because they don't want to have to ask for more, which I don't want you to ask for more either. But Speaker 2 (7:46) it's like, if you need to ask for me for two more square feet, like I've done my job. I'm not. So it's not unusual. I agree. Like, it's not like it happens every project, but it's not uncommon for them to be like, hey, we're short, like, you know, five to ten, whatever. But, so, a couple of them were that. A couple of them were like, hey, I need this much more. There was more waste Speaker 1 (8:06) than Speaker 2 (8:06) I thought there would be. It was fine. It was in stock. I got it to them. End of story. This, there's the two that are repeating. One of them, over the course of the past five weeks, I have been asked for more tile, some of which was more. Of the more I've already gotten. Totally. Four times. Yeah. I ordered 120 square feet for the not a big bathroom. Speaker 1 (8:29) No, it's not big. Speaker 2 (8:30) It's floor. They've ended up needing 183. And that 120 was including Speaker 1 (8:37) 15 % overage. That's insane. It is insane. So that, but they told us that the bathroom, the plans that we were working from. Which were the Speaker 2 (8:45) architect's plans. Are not Speaker 1 (8:47) what they're building. So I'm like, excuse me, what are you building? Where is this extra space coming from? And are these vanities going to fit? Is Speaker 2 (8:55) this Speaker 1 (8:55) Narnia? What's going Speaker 2 (8:57) on? But when you open this bathroom door, I don't know. So that has slowed things down. But, so, I get, the first one was, you know, about a month ago. Okay, fine, I've ordered you more, fine. Then, I think, a couple weeks after that, we need more of this. tile and we we kind of went back we kind of pushed back on him to be like explain yourself because i was like hey bill are you redoing your bathroom at your house where's Speaker 1 (9:20) this tile going why do you need so Speaker 2 (9:22) much tile i call bullshit he explained it we got on the phone okay fine whatever we talked to the client hey fyi this is what's going on she's one of the best she's honestly really great lovely um she really is i'll do anything she wants yeah she um was fine whatever i mean what are you gonna do you need more Speaker 1 (9:38) yeah Speaker 2 (9:38) sure we Speaker 1 (9:39) want it done but we're kind of like but where's this going so that was Speaker 2 (9:45) two, three weeks ago, we thought that we were good. And also, side note, this vendor, the manufacturer that we're getting, has not been easy. It's Speaker 1 (9:54) the Speaker 2 (9:54) first time working with them. They have good stuff. I don't know that I would use them again. I agree. It's a pain in the ass. Just for the sheer complications that we've had with ordering and how long it's taken to ship and all that. So then he texts me, what, on Monday? That he needs more pencil trim. More? No, well, so actually, he tells me that they shorted him the additional that we ordered, which that's not his fault. That's not our fault. That's the tile table's fault. Didn't send what we ordered. That's annoying. And that's not on him. So I call, I order more, get it shipped. The next day, hey, sorry, just noticed or just found out we're also, we need four more pieces of the shower wall tile, which I had already ordered an additional 25 square feet. So I'm like, Hey, how do you need more of that when you're telling me you're installing the pencil trim on top of the wall? Like, wouldn't you already know? Wouldn't you have already known that? I text him back. I assumed you had the wall up. Speaker 1 (10:57) Is this the last of the extra tile I need to order? Yep, the last of it. Two days later. No! The next day. It was the next day. It was the next day. 7.57 Speaker 2 (11:07) a.m. Speaker 1 (11:08) This text came, my head exploded. And I know yours did, but I was like, no, we have to tell the client this. This is outrageous. I'm going Speaker 2 (11:17) to keep this picture of Tom Holland up because it's just really breaking my blood pressure down. The cortisol levels are right where they need to be. It's Speaker 1 (11:22) helping Speaker 2 (11:22) me. My guys are killing me. You're killing me, Bill! He just informed me that we need eight more sheets of the floor mosaics. He said there's a lot of waste. Sorry again. I'm just trying to finish this job. I don't even respond. I sent it to you because I just I'm driving Speaker 1 (11:39) at this point. I was like, I fucking can't. You sent it to me. I was like, we have to tell the client that this was going on. Not that she's going to. I mean, it's like you need what you need. But like, how are we just piecemealing this together? And how are Speaker 2 (11:50) you? Why aren't you sitting down? Yeah. counting the tile, doing the layout, and then telling me everything that I need at once. I respond hours later, tell me you're kidding. He goes, I really wish I was. So then I proceed to be like, hey, we're incurring a lot of shipping fees every time we're ordering these Speaker 1 (12:10) things individually when they likely could be Speaker 2 (12:12) consolidated Speaker 1 (12:12) into one shipping cost. And here's how this goes at the office, right? We're debating this. We're having this conversation. And I'm like, we're going to lie to him. And we're going to tell, I don't give a shit. Like, tell the, I don't even. gonna care if that's true. I want him to know. It Speaker 2 (12:24) might be Speaker 1 (12:24) true, it might not be true. But it could be true. That's the point. It could be true. And I think that's bullshit. That your inability to plan the layout of this tile is now costing my client more money because we're ordering this all piecemeal. I said, it also feels like there's 20 to 30 percent more waste than we normally Speaker 2 (12:39) see with tile. Are your guys stoned? Speaker 1 (12:43) Yeah. Like, Speaker 2 (12:44) are your guys... Looking being like, yeah, I think I got to cut it here. Making the cut and then being like, oh, fuck, I was a half inch off. Speaker 1 (12:49) Yeah, I don't know. Like, what's going on? It's been insane. I don't know. And then we have another project where the timeline was super, super tight. It's a massive kitchen renovation. Massive kitchen. And... We had laid out this schedule and it was like, everything has to go perfectly in order for this kitchen to be done by the time you move back in. Meanwhile, we're like, it's not. That's never going Speaker 2 (13:11) to happen. That's never happened Speaker 1 (13:12) in the history of construction ever. Right. But here you go. This is what needs to happen. And of course, in the kitchen and in a lot of construction, there's a lot of dependencies. Like, that's what slows things down. You know, these guys are tiling this bathroom. They can't proceed. They can't Speaker 2 (13:25) put Speaker 1 (13:25) the vanities in until the tile is done. And then it gets grouted. The Speaker 2 (13:27) countertop Speaker 1 (13:28) can't be Speaker 2 (13:28) templated until the cabinets are done. So if the cabinets take longer to install, then you need to push back your thing. Oh, they're booking two weeks out. Sorry, you've just lost two Speaker 1 (13:35) weeks. And now it's into November before this. And unfortunately, they ordered a new kitchen window. The kitchen window came in. It's incorrect. And she's using her. She wanted to use her people. Yeah. So we're technically not supposed to be. Project managing. Turns out we are. We always end up. I mean, we're not project management in the sense that we're not there every day truly managing it. But every designer knows. When shit hits the fan. When shit hits the fan, who's getting the call? You're getting the call. Yeah. And I'm happy to be able to talk her off the ledge and give her the advice that she needs. But it's like, it's so, that's just what happens with construction. It's like, you have to allot for minimum three to four weeks. Yeah. Of. Speaker 1 (14:14) And I feel for GCs in the sense that they're doing the best they can to plan their trades to the schedule, right? When something goes wrong and they have to pull one of their trades off of that job because there's not enough tile there, that guy's not just sitting in his truck waiting for the tile to get there. He's going to another job and now you've got to try to get him back, but you've got to try to keep the job moving. So you're trying to have like the plaster guys come in, but like there's certain things that can't happen. It's a lot of moving parts for sure. And we have lost time. Speaker 2 (14:43) We had lost time and almost the stones. Yeah. At the beginning of this project. Yeah. Because the... The fabricator. Thank you. I don't know what his problem is. Is it a communication thing? I don't Speaker 1 (14:58) know. Is Speaker 2 (14:58) it like he's overbooked himself and he can't organize himself? I don't know. But we lost time at the beginning and think like... Not thankfully, I don't mean it like this because I don't want the project to be hitting things, but she's realizing what we knew. Yeah. Three months ago. Yeah. Speaker 1 (15:15) I mean, it's, you know. Speaker 1 (15:17) we've done it before, so we know. She's never done it before, so she doesn't know. Everyone thinks it's going to be fine. It's like, it could be fine, but it's not ever fine. It could be fine. In theory, it seems like it should be fine. We'll have everything here, and we did everything we could. We planned, but, you know, best laid plans, whatever. And that is definitely the case with construction. How long would you say an average kitchen construction project takes? Speaker 2 (15:43) Three months. 12 weeks. That's what I put. That's what I wrote down in my notes. Yeah. 12 weeks. 12 weeks. And we're trying to do this in, I think, nine or 10. I don't even think it was 10. Yeah. Like, I think it might have been nine. Speaker 1 (15:55) The theory was if we have everything ordered, everything planned, everything will be there. But, okay, that's all fine and well. And you should always be doing that anyway. Yeah. But that means there can be no mistakes. And right off the jump. Mistakes. There was a mistake that, unfortunately, is going to slow everything down. The window. The window came in wrong. The window is being installed flush to the counter, which means the counter can't get templated, which means the backsplash can't go up, which means the sink can't go in. We had to really get creative with how we're doing. Here Speaker 2 (16:27) we are. Here we are. I just need the, yeah, I just need them to be at different times. Speaker 1 (16:36) Well, this episode is not about that. It's not about that entirely. It's about construction. And it is coming on the heels of a controversial but well-received. I would say mostly well-received. I keep catching Speaker 2 (16:50) Tom Holland out of the corner. No, I'm leaving it there. It's fucking amazing. I leave it there. Speaker 1 (16:54) Mostly well-received. Mostly Speaker 2 (16:55) well-received of Speaker 1 (16:56) the Pinterest versus. And Speaker 2 (16:58) in Speaker 1 (16:58) that episode, we broke down for you. Here's how much things really cost. Like, everyone's loving all of these images. You love these rooms. Here's the reality of what... And... I think we've become so jaded because we work with these numbers every day, all day. Yeah. To some extent, it's easy to be like, well, people know. I mean, they must know to some degree. People do not know to almost any degree. I feel like the comments in that post were very validating because there's a lot of other designers being like, yeah, this Speaker 2 (17:23) is Speaker 1 (17:23) what high-end, yeah, Speaker 2 (17:24) this is. Most, I would say that like the positive feedback or comments were either other designers being like, absolutely, every day of the week, this is what it costs. And then there was, not necessarily like consumer, but like, you know, everyday people being like, thank you so much for giving me something, being transparent and like actually talking about what it costs and giving people a realistic sense of like what it is to do a room like this. Speaker 1 (17:52) Then there were some people. Who were very upset. People got upset, got mad at me. I knew that was going to