Behavioral Advice and Navigating a New Autism Diagnosis with Behavioral Analyst Stephanie Mueller EP 479
Best of Both Worlds Podcast
Hosts Laura Vanderkam and Sarah Hart Unger open by discussing their evolving approaches to sourcing parenting advice before welcoming board-certified behavioral analyst
Key takeaways
- Stephanie Mueller holds a master's in developmental psychology from Columbia University and currently directs behavioral services at an autism-specific private school in Phoenix, Arizona.
- Families receiving a new autism diagnosis are advised to pause before rushing into multiple therapies, remembering that they remain the primary experts on their child's needs and family culture.
Main topics
- Parenting advice sources and trust
- Navigating a new autism diagnosis
Notable quotes
"Autism doesn't have a look. It looks like all different kinds of things and doesn't come with one sort of set physical appearance."
Conclusion
Listeners leave with actionable, evidence-based behavioral frameworks t
Transcript preview
Speaker 5 (0:00) This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human. I'm Melissa Jeltsin, host of the What Happened to Her podcast. We're kicking off the season with the Sandra Birchmore story, a case the police wrote off as a suicide in a snowstorm. Her family never bought it, and the man they suspected wore a badge. You Speaker 8 (0:19) never know who that devil is because he's wearing a disguise. Sometimes it's a police uniform. Speaker 5 (0:24) And you can get access to all episodes 100 % ad-free with an iHeart True Crime Plus subscription exclusively on Apple Podcasts, available only to iHeart True Crime Plus subscribers. So don't wait. Head to Apple Podcasts, search for iHeart True Crime Plus, and subscribe today. Speaker 7 (0:43) Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwano. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisa DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions. And at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (1:14) Hi, this is Kylie Brakeman, Angela Geritana, Jeremy Colhane, Patrick McDonald, and we're the hosts of the Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists podcast, the improvised character comedy podcast, where each week a new panel of artists discuss their craft. Join us for a panel of Eurovision participants. And Speaker 7 (1:31) we do a little Halloween sometimes. Does the Pope dress up? He winks on Halloween. He gets right up next to the microphone. Speaker 8 (1:38) I hear you can almost hear the eyelashes hit each other. Speaker 7 (1:41) You've never seen Italy so quiet as when the Pope gets up to wink on Halloween. Listen to Artists on Artists on Artists on Artists every Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 1 (1:54) I'm Lacey Mosley, author, actor, stand-up comedian, creator, and host of Scam Goddess Podcast. The true crime comedy podcast all about robbery, fraud, and those who practice it. Each week I bring on an amazing guest. Speaker 7 (2:06) Ooh, I scammed him. What? I could talk to you for an hour. Speaker 1 (2:09) You're a generational yapper, like me. That's why I had to make yapping a job. And now you can catch full episodes of my show on YouTube. Start listening to Scam Goddess on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 8 (2:25) You broke me. You do not deserve happiness. Speaker 2 (2:28) I'm Andrea Gunning. On this season of Betrayal, Carl thought he was living a normal, drama-free life. Until the messages started. Speaker 8 (2:37) Someone's not going to make it out of this alive. Speaker 2 (2:40) Every piece of evidence pointed to the wrong guy. Speaker 8 (2:44) He was not going to stop unless we stopped him. Speaker 2 (2:47) Listen to Betrayal Season 6 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (3:04) Hi, I'm Laura Vanderkam. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, and speaker. Speaker 6 (3:09) And I'm Sarah Hart Unger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, and course creator. We are two working parents who love our careers and our families. Speaker 4 (3:19) Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. Here we talk about how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. From figuring out childcare to mapping out long-term career goals, we want you to get the most out of life. Speaker 4 (3:35) Welcome to Best of Both Worlds. This is Laura. This episode is airing in early October of 2026. Sarah is going to be interviewing Stephanie Miller, who is a board-certified behavioral analyst. Fun connection. She is also the sister of Dr. Jillian Goddard, who we've had on the podcast in the past. Sarah, what can you tell us about Stephanie? Speaker 6 (3:56) Yeah, so she mostly works with people that have autism spectrum disorder, and she has an excellent understanding of the evidence for behavioral analysis. And she loves to talk about how it applies to pretty much everyone. She's got lots of parenting experience of her own. She's got four kids at home, two kids and two stepkids, 10, 9, 9, and 5 are their ages. And I think this is going to be a really fun conversation that will be useful to many. Yeah. Speaker 4 (4:22) So last week, we talked about easy kid privilege. And we want to just note here, when we are saying behavioral analysis and all this, And Stephanie knows this, too. I mean, we're always working within a range of where our kids are and those practical ideas for like making life and household better within a certain range, understanding that on some level, you also get what you get. So we want to make sure we shout out to that. But Sarah, where do you generally turn for parenting advice? I feel Speaker 6 (4:49) like this has shifted over the years, and I don't know if that's more just because my kids are older and maybe the things I might be asking about are a little bit more specific. I mean. Listen, there's going to be a lot of coverage of different potty training methods. But when you get into like specific friend group dynamics or should I let my kid do this specific thing? It's harder to turn to the masses for that kind of advice. But also, I just I don't know. There were some parenting podcasts I listened to. And over time. developed some frustration with some of them when they would be so confident about how this method would amazingly work in this specific way and your child would respond in XYZ manner. And then I would try it and they just didn't. So this is kind of similar to what we spoke about last week. And like, am I doing something wrong? Like, no, maybe there's just more differences here. And so I really tend to turn to my friends. I will turn to Laura. I will text her. I will text my friend Kay. I will text my sister. I will text, I don't know, just like My sister-in-law, who's a teacher and who has two older kids, like my inner circle, people that I trust, usually who have kids, many times who have kids a little bit older than my kids. So they have some interesting insight there. I feel like that is what my heart wants to get this advice. And it's been really helpful over the years. What about you? Speaker 4 (6:02) Yeah, I mean, I don't know that I turn to much in terms of exterior parenting sources at this point. I mean, I can sort of think back to what we did with kid one, two or three and looking at kid four or five or this worked with not worked, but this was helpful with X child. And maybe we can try it with this, but also just trying to have a lot of empathy for them as people like. They are real people. They are figuring out the world. They're smart people. Like, let's talk about it and see what they're thinking and give advice as I can and sort of support them through their own decision making in some ways. So I don't know. Yeah, it's been a while since I've been reading a whole lot of online or book parenting advice, although there's a lot that's probably helpful out there as long as it's approached with the spirit of this is something that might be helpful in a practical way for my life now. as opposed to if you do a different system, you are ruining your children for life. Not helpful. Speaker 6 (6:59) Or even, I have this magical solution that will 100 % work for you and your child. And if it doesn't, you probably did it wrong. Yeah. Speaker 4 (7:06) Oh, that's always, I mean, people become, if some system is more compatible with a particular child, sometimes those parents then become evangelical about it too. And so that's how you get the like cheerleaders and the forums for these particular methods. But I don't know. Anyway. I think all of it must be taken with a grain of salt. Anyway, let's hear what Stephanie Mueller has to say. Speaker 6 (7:26) I am so excited to be here today with Stephanie Mueller, who, as we discussed in the intro, is the sibling of Dr. Jillian Goddard, who we've had on the podcast at least two times. So keeping it in the family, Stephanie, I am so excited to have this conversation. Welcome to the show and tell our listeners a little bit about you. Speaker 3 (7:44) Thank you. I'm so excited to be here. So I am. a behavior analyst. I've been working primarily in the autism field for almost two decades. In addition to that, I am also a mom of a blended family. So we have together four kiddos. My partner has two from a previous relationship. I have one and we have one together. So we are very busy. Speaker 6 (8:14) And the ages of your kids remind me of the age range that you have right now. Speaker 3 (8:18) Yes. So our oldest is 10. We have two nine-year-olds and a five-year-old. Speaker 6 (8:26) I Speaker 3 (8:27) love Speaker 6 (8:27) it. Everyone is clustered together. And you are, similar to me, probably bemoaning the lack of fall where you are in Phoenix, Arizona. Speaker 3 (8:35) Very much so. It is still well over 100 here. Speaker 6 (8:39) Well, at least I can't say that. I'm in South Florida. We don't really get over 100, but it is very humid. All right. So behavioral analyst, I'm going to be like very honest here. I feel like I should know exactly what that is and exactly what the training is, especially because I am a board certified pediatrician as well as a pediatric endocrinologist. But I don't actually 100 percent know. So that probably means most of our listeners don't know either. So please tell me. Well, what got you interested in that field? And what does the training look like? And what do most behavioral analysts do? Speaker 3 (9:10) Great question. So I actually became interested in the field of autism, which is how I found behavior analysis when I was in college. So I was studying psychology. I was nearing the end of my degree and thinking, what am I going to do? And then... had a class where I learned about autism. This was quite a few years ago, so it wasn't quite as prominent and well-known as it is today. So that was sort of my first introduction to autism was actually through this course. And I learned about it and was like, that's it. That's what I want to do. So it was just kind of this aha moment. From there, I sort of learned about, okay, well, if I'm going to be in this field. What are the things I need to do to become a behavior analyst? So there is a master's degree requirement. So I pursued my master's. I went to Columbia University, got my master's degree in developmental psychology. And that's where I first really started working in the autism field and kind of had my first exposure to that. I then moved back to Phoenix and pursued. So in addition to a master's degree, there is specific coursework in behavior analysis that is required. So I finished up that coursework. And then similar to like many counseling fields, things like that, there's this supervised fieldwork experience that's required. So I was able to do that through my work as I continued working in the autism field. received my supervised hours. And then again, like many fields, there's a big test that you have to take. So studied for that, took the test, and then became a board certified behavior analyst. And then in addition to that, in most states, similar to medical fields or different professions like that, there's also a licensure requirement. So did that as well. Speaker 6 (11:17) Got it. And now what does your day-to-day practice look like? Do you do a lot of diagnostic work, a lot of... In homework, side by side with patients, do you work in a bigger facility? What does it look like today? Speaker 3 (11:28) I actually have done a variety of things. Currently, I am the director of behavioral services at an autism specific private school here in Phoenix. So that is where a lot of students who are not being served best in their district, if the district doesn't have the resources and the support needed, then they will come to a school like this. And really, it entails a lot of really individualized intervention. And that is one thing that behavior analysis is all about. It's not a one size fits all approach. It's very, very individualized to the particular patient, client, student that you're working with. So there is a lot of observation and sort of identifying these. goals that are going to help your