Main Characters Book Club

Bad On Paper

The hosts discuss the September book club pick, 'Main Characters' by Bobby Palmer, focusing on its experimental 80+ point of $\text{of}$ vie

Key takeaways

• The novel 'Main Characters' is unique because it tells a love story without using the perspectives of the protagonists, Clara and Seb.
• Becca describes being cut off from the mainland in the Outer Banks after a nor'easter caused Highway 12 to wash out.

Main topics

• Main Characters Book Club Discussion
• Outer Banks Storm and Isolation

Notable quotes

He's looking at her, but she's not looking at him.

Conclusion

A thoughtful exploration of how narrative structure can influence read

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:17) Hi, everyone, and welcome to Bad on Paper podcast. I'm Olivia Mentor. And I'm Becca Freeman. And today is our September book club episode, and we're going to be discussing Main Characters by Bobby Palmer. Speaker 1 (0:29) Yes, we both loved this book, but we've resisted discussing it together. So I want to dive into the specifics today. But before we get into that. This episode is sponsored by Sol de Janeiro, the Brazilian-inspired self-care brand we've been partnering with on our Summer of Sol. And a reminder that you can listen to all of our bonus book club episodes from the summer sponsored by Sol de Janeiro anywhere you listen to podcasts anytime. And don't forget, we have a BOP exclusive discount so you can try all of our favorite Sol de Janeiro products. More on that later in the episode. Well, let's get into some highs and lows. Tell me your high. My high is that last week, I had a really fun girls' night out with two friends, and we went out to dinner, and then I had bought tickets to see Suki Waterhouse at Radio City Music Hall months ago, like maybe in January or February, and I kind of forgot about it. I plopped it on the calendar for all of us, and it's not even something that I... kind of was anticipating until I scrolled ahead a couple of weeks in my calendar and saw it. So it was like a happy little surprise. And oh my gosh, it was so fun. What Speaker 2 (1:44) did she wear? This is probably not what you were expecting me to ask, but it is something I wondered first, which is what is she wearing? She's so cool. So Speaker 1 (1:52) she had two outfits during Speaker 2 (1:54) the Speaker 1 (1:55) show. The first one was a rhinestone thong bodysuit. With like her lace underwear hanging out with what I can only describe as like a boxer's robe over it. Speaker 2 (2:11) Yeah, I can totally see this on her. Yep. On me, horrifying. But on her, it feels perfect. Speaker 1 (2:18) And then the second outfit was a pair of track shorts and a crop tank top that had some type of like slogan or logo on it that I couldn't read from where we were. Speaker 2 (2:30) Very cool. What, was it as good as the first time you saw her? Speaker 1 (2:33) It was different. So the first time I saw her, I was such a casual fan going into that. Like, I feel like I just bought those tickets kind of being a fan of a couple songs and wanting something to do in the dead of winter. And that concert was at... the Brooklyn Paramount, which is a really small venue and it's standing room only. So it felt really intimate versus this was at Radio City, which is much bigger and there are seats. So it was like a bigger show, which was cool for her. But like, I think we were ultimately further away from it. Although I will say, not to spoil my obsession, I'm obsessed with this album, the latest album that she's currently touring. Speaker 2 (3:16) Were you not before you went? Did it like ignite the obsession or were you listening to it a lot in anticipation of seeing her live again? Kind of the former. We'll talk about it. Speaker 1 (3:25) Okay. Speaker 2 (3:26) We'll Speaker 1 (3:26) talk about it. Speaker 2 (3:27) I can't wait. But tell me yours. What is your high? My high is that I went on vacation to the Outer Banks and saw my whole family. And it's just always a joy to be on the beach reading a book, which is really all I wanted. So the high. is complicated, which we will Speaker 1 (3:47) get to in the low. Speaker 2 (3:49) Should you just Speaker 1 (3:50) roll into it or do you want to focus on the high side before? No, let's Speaker 2 (3:54) just, you know, it's kind of all, it's all in one giant mess of a thing right now. So if my audio sounds a little different, I hope it doesn't. But if it does, it's because I'm currently recording in the corner of a bedroom hunched over my laptop with no microphone because I didn't expect to still be here. As I am recording this. So there was a nor'easter, which most people on the East Coast have probably felt the effects of. People knew it was coming. People knew it was coming here. But there was no evacuation order. There was nothing other than like, okay, so the road will get washed out. And in a day, it'll be good to travel. And this was on Wednesday evening. Speaker 2 (4:40) We've been here before in lots of storms, hurricanes. The road has been closed many times before. It usually reopens and it's not a problem. But because the storm fell on the same time as a full moon and a king tide, the tides were extreme. And not only did Highway 12 wash out in one spot, which is the only road on and off the island here. the road actually broke apart. So it was just like asphalt, like broken into pieces, like a puzzle, and then covered in sand, covered in like six inches a foot of water, basically disappeared. The road disappeared. So days passed. We were supposed to leave on Saturday. And there was still no road on or off the island. They only just yesterday morning, it's Monday as I record this, yesterday morning, they just started an emergency ferry. But there are so many people trying to get off the island that there are like 500 to 1,000 cars in line at any time. And each trip is two hours and can only take 25 cars. So the math really isn't mathing there. Anyway, we're here. It's fine. You know, we're all healthy, which is good because there is no hospital here, which is actually one of the scarier parts of it being cut off from the world. But yeah, for the most part, it's been OK. The storm actually wasn't that bad in terms of wind or rain. It was just the tides. And I did go into the grocery store on Thursday and there was no food on the shelves, which was actually kind of terrifying because the food trucks couldn't get on or off either. But you have provisions, right? You're not in danger. We Speaker 1 (6:28) have provisions. Yes, Speaker 2 (6:28) we have provisions. We're all healthy. We're all having a good time. I was telling you, we have 10 people here ranging in age from two to, you know, late 60s. So it's been a good time. But we've bonded a lot and it's beautiful weather now. So that's good. But, you know, I was supposed to be home to record this. We have... live event in New York City on Wednesday that I don't think I'm going to be able to get to at this point. So it's really not ideal, but it is Speaker 1 (7:00) an adventure. I'm sorry that this happened to you, and I'm glad that you're safe. Not to make light of the situation at all, but I do need to know how close do these events mirror the plot of the book that you're working on? Speaker 2 (7:19) Not exactly, but there are some parallels. Certainly there are some parallels and it is all great fodder. So it's been inspiring in some ways. I actually went today, this morning I was driving and I just stopped by the house that inspired Blue House and I just, there's no one there. So I just sat on the top deck by myself, creepily for a while, gathering little details. You don't realize like how cut off you are from things until literally within a matter Speaker 1 (7:52) of hours, you have no access to Speaker 2 (7:54) anything. Like nothing. So yeah, it's been a true adventure, but I'm grateful we're all safe and healthy and all the things. And Speaker 1 (8:02) a small silver lining for me personally, if I can make this about myself, you have learned Mahjong because of this. There was a forcing function. You were very against learning. Speaker 2 (8:14) I have. I know my mom is a big Mahjong fan like you, and she's always trying to get me to play. And in fact, and my aunt who is here plays as well. And she kept saying before this trip, like, I'm going to get you to play. I'm going to get you to play. And I was like, it is my vacation. I do not want to spend my vacation learning how to play a game. That's not a very pleasant experience for me. But Speaker 1 (8:36) I gave in. And you know what? Thank God. Who's your fourth? Is it Jake or your dad? Speaker 2 (8:41) My cousin's here. One of my cousins or my cousin's wife is here. Sometimes she'll play or sometimes we play. I don't know what it's called. It's like with the three and then you have like the wall. And Speaker 1 (8:51) then Speaker 2 (8:51) you have Bob. Bob? Is that what it's called? Speaker 1 (8:55) That's what we call it. I think that's like not made up within my group that like the imaginary player is Bob. Yeah, I haven't heard that, but I do like that. Speaker 2 (9:04) So maybe I will propose that to the group or I'll bring it up and ask my mom. I will say that the first like hour of learning, I was like, why would anyone do this? This is horrible. This makes no sense whatsoever. But with time, I came to enjoy it. And that, well, actually, I should tell you, I won my first game. Speaker 1 (9:24) Oh, beginner's luck. So it hooked you. It hooked you early. Now you're chasing that. Speaker 2 (9:29) Since then, I've played probably 10 games and I've won maybe three. Speaker 1 (9:33) Yeah, I'm on a catastrophic losing streak. I have not won a game in so long. Speaker 2 (9:38) Well, it's still, that makes you want to keep going too. It's like gambling a little bit. You're like, okay, the next one, the next one. Yeah. Obviously, I know how difficult this is for so many people, but I think we've been lucky all in all. And one day it'll be a funny memory. Speaker 1 (9:53) But yeah, Speaker 2 (9:54) tell me your low. Enough about me and my Gilligan's Island. Speaker 1 (9:58) I don't think I can complain about my low following that. Speaker 2 (10:06) I think you can. I mean, listen, I woke up at six this morning and I watched the sun rise on the beach. I have enough Doritos to last me a solid three and a half weeks. You can share your low, please. Speaker 1 (10:18) Okay. I have a silly travel-related low that feels much sillier in light of yours. But I'm going to London this weekend. I tacked on a few days. I was always going to Scotland for a wedding the following weekend. My friend Molly, who is Ruby's mom, is getting married in Edinburgh, which I've actually never been to. And I decided to go a couple days early to go to London. It's the week before my book comes out. I figured I would be a bundle of nerves and not be very productive. And I might as well go early because there were a bunch of gallery shows that I had wanted to see in London. And so far, I've done exactly no planning for this trip because... I was originally going to go alone. My friend Jess might come at the last minute. We're still not sure. And so I was kind of figuring restaurant-wise, I think when you're just one person, you can very easily slip into the bar and sit by yourself. And ticket-wise, I didn't realize quite the situation. So I started to look last weekend. I like on Saturday morning, not this past Saturday, like the week before. I started to look and I was like, oh, let me grab tickets to these shows I want to go to. So like a solid three, two and a half weeks before they're all sold out. Oh, yeah. So I've done a bad job. I Speaker 2 (11:45) would Speaker 1 (11:45) never have Speaker 2 (11:46) thought of that. Speaker 1 (11:47) I've done a bad job planning and it'll still be fun because, you know, I love London and there's plenty of things to do. But I was like, oh, wow, the purpose of this trip. I don't know. And who knows? Somebody told me that they do tend to release. like, canceled tickets closer to. So maybe I'll get lucky. But I was like, oh, I did a really poor job planning this. There's no, like, standby? No. One of them is I want to see this exhibit of the Queen's wardrobe that is put on by the Royal Collection Trust. And there is extensive messaging on the website that, like... There are no day of tickets. You cannot just show up. Like, there are not, like, it's reservations only. Like, very strict language. So it does not seem like you can just kind of be like, I'm here. Speaker 2 (12:35) You know, I wish the emergency ferry system here would perhaps kind of get some inspiration from that system. Whereas here, they're like, show up whenever you'd like and then just sit in your car for 24 hours and maybe you will get off. That system sounds better, but I'm sorry that you didn't get tickets. It's not benefiting me in any Speaker 1 (12:54) way, certainly. It could have. It could have. It could have. So I feel a little silly. Speaker 2 (13:00) At least you're not going to go and then... True. At least you know. True. You can make another plan, maybe. Speaker 1 (13:06) So it's a real adventure of what I'm going to do while I'm in London. Well, there's famously nothing going on there. Famously. Speaker 2 (13:14) You may struggle, but... I think you'll have a good time still, but I'm sorry that didn't work out. Speaker 1 (13:21) That's okay. It's okay. Well, let's take a quick ad break and then let's get into this book club. Speaker 2 (13:32) This episode is sponsored by Sol de Janeiro, the Brazilian-inspired self-care brand that we have partnered with for our amazing Summer of Sol partnership. We have hosted live events, recorded three amazing bonus book club episodes, and shared some pretty incredible giveaways. It has been such a joy to partner with a brand that not only makes products that we genuinely love, but is as committed to fostering real community as we are, and of course, also loves books so much. Speaker 1 (14:00) If you want to catch up on those bonus book club episodes, you can listen to them wherever you get your podcasts. We have one episode discussing The Five Star Weekend by Ellen Hildebrand, another one about One and Only by Maureen Gu, and our latest is all about The Parisian Heist by Joe Piazza. Speaker 2 (14:17) I'm feeling pretty beachy at the moment, as you can imagine, but I already know that I will be so excited when I get home and return to my Boom Boom Cream as it is already getting chilly there and my skin is very dry and sunburned and I know that I will need it. If you want to try their famous Boom Boom Cream or any of Sol de Janeiro's amazing perfume mists, which I also love, plus they have their new intense perfume mists, which are great, you can shop those items and more and get 10 % off your first order at soldegenero.com slash discount slash BOP10 for 10 % off your first order. exclusive for Bad on Paper listeners. We hope that you've enjoyed this partnership just as much as we have. And be sure to let us know your favorite bonus book club episode or your favorite Soul Dish Nero product on Instagram or in the Facebook group. Speaker 1 (15:15) Okay, Olivia, let's get into this book. So Mean Characters is a love story about Clara and Seb told from the perspective of everyone except Clara and Seb. So the story, which is told across 80-something rotating POVs, follows Clara and Seb from when they first meet as artists in London in their early 20s through their 30s and into their 40s as their ambitions change and one becomes a parent while the other does not. Okay, Olivia, so I want to start with why did you pick this for book club? What was your experience reading the book? I remember we talked about this early August, midsummer at some point, and I said I was reading it and you were like, oh my God, me too. I'm obsessed. Like what, what was your reading experience? I Speaker 2 (16:04) think maybe selfishly, I think this is such a fun book to discuss as writers. Like there's so much in it that just. inspires me creatively. And I also thought it would just be a hit with so many different types of readers, much like it appeals to both you and I who have different tastes. But there's something in it for everyone. I think there's a lot of really juicy themes and topics. There is this love story, but it's not exactly the way you would think it would be. And I just thought it would be fun for us to discuss specifically fun for a lot of readers to read generally. And it was doing something fresh and different, which appealed to me a lot. And I was so happy when you loved it as much as I did. Speaker 1 (16:49) Yeah, it's interesting because you said we're both quite different readers. Like you don't read a ton of romance. I think I've, you're more commercial than you do, but this worked for both of us. Like this does a little bit feel like romance for people who maybe don't identify as romance readers. Like it's a much more complex, gritty type of romance than. even though this does have a cartoon cover, like something that I'm thinking of as like a cartoon cover romance, which I love. I'm not saying that with any shade whatsoever. I Speaker 2 (17:17) agree. I think it also felt literary in a super down-to-earth kind of way. You know, it wasn't hitting you over the head with it. The language I thought was pretty simple in a really effective way and a beautiful way. And it just was... a very pleasant read for me. There were a couple of things that I do have questions about, which we will get into. But I think from start to finish, it was just lovely. And also, it gave me that feeling where you're about 15, 20 percent into a book and you're just like, oh, I just need to talk to someone about this right now. And luckily, we have that on paper. So here we are. Speaker 1 (17:56) It's very gulpable. Like the chapter sizes, most of the chapters are quite small, like ranging anywhere from half a page to two or three pages. There's some longer chapters, but I found it very gullible. I started it on a flight, if I'm remembering correctly, that was quite turbulent. I think I was coming back from Florida in a storm and I was like completely unbothered. I was just crushing chapters. Speaker 2 (18:23) Yeah. I remember before I read the book, I was really unsure how the author would achieve. a romance somewhere in this. Like, I was like, how am I going to connect to the story, to the characters, to the emotional heft of it? And once I realized how it would work, I felt delighted by it. Like, delighted across the board. Speaker 1 (18:47) Yeah, it was really well constructed in an unexpected way. And I listened to this podcast. interview with Bobby Palmer, the author, and he talks about how this is a book about audiences and so much about how other people perceive things, both for the main characters who are working artists. Claire is a director. Seb is at some point an actor, but then kind of finds his way into different things. But it's very much about being perceived by audiences. And then on a meta level, it's like, the audiences that are perceiving them because it's not narrated through their own point of view. And then on an even more meta level, it's like us perceiving these fake characters. Like it really felt kind of Inception-y. I Speaker 2 (19:36) know. It's amazing that his brain did not break while writing it. Or maybe it did. I don't know. But yes, very Inception-y and very clever. And also, I didn't make this connection until I listened to an interview with him, but he was very inspired by the director of About Time. Speaker 1 (19:52) Oh, I love that movie. Me too. I Speaker 2 (19:54) didn't Speaker 1 (19:54) realize that. I love that movie. They Speaker 2 (19:56) kept mentioning this director over and over again. I listened to actually at a podcast with him and Claire Daverly where they were both discussing their novels with an interviewer. And she said to him, to Bobby Palmer, the author of Main Characters, it felt very much like a Richard Curtis movie. And he's the writer, excuse me. He's the writer of the movie. But he also did Love Actually, didn't he? Yes, he did Love Actually, Notting Hill. And once I realized that, I really understood the book a lot more. Like I saw it through a bit of a different lens. I'm glad I actually didn't know before I started reading, but I saw what he was trying to do, the author, and I think he achieved it for sure. Speaker 1 (20:34) Okay, so somebody in my newsletter comments the other week asked if this was a romance version of Good People by Pat Meena Sabit, which we did