Chef Tom Kerridge on Pubs, Michelin Stars, Sobriety & Saving British Hospitality | At The Bar

At The Bar | Dream Drinks and Great Company 🍸

Michelin-starred chef Tom Kerridge joins the podcast to discuss his journey through 13 years of sobriety and his enduring passion for British pub

Key takeaways

• Tom Kerridge has maintained 13 years of sobriety after previously drinking heavily as part of the chef lifestyle.
• The 'That's The Problem' campaign is fighting against food inflation, rising utility bills, and unfair business rates in the hospitality sector.

Main topics

• Sobriety and personal transformation
• The UK hospitality crisis

Notable quotes

Hospitality is the beating heart of what goes on for the rest of the country.

Conclusion

A profound look at how personal resilience and industry advocacy inter

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) This might be a... This is a car crash. Perfect Speaker 2 (0:02) plate Speaker 4 (0:04) or perfect service? Speaker 2 (0:06) Ooh. Speaker 1 (0:07) That's right. Look Speaker 2 (0:08) at that. Speaker 3 (0:09) It's really unique. I Speaker 1 (0:10) think Speaker 2 (0:10) it's delicious. Speaker 3 (0:11) You used that in a positive way. You looked at me then like I was just saying shit. A crooked badger. Sounds Speaker 1 (0:15) like a sex move. Speaker 3 (0:16) Jack. Speaker 1 (0:18) Hospitality is the beating heart of what goes on for the rest of the country. And I think... Andy Burnham understands it. Speaker 2 (0:24) Surely Andy, the first thing you're going to do is not do a U-turn because that's what the last guy gave you. Speaker 3 (0:35) Hello and welcome to Out The Bar, the show where we get to know some guests by giving them some very special drinks. As always, the man behind the bar is Jack. Hello, mate. And keeping track of things and making sure we don't go off is John, our producer. How are you, my friend? I'm good. How are you? I'm all Speaker 4 (0:50) right. I'm looking forward to this one. Me too. Can you tell everyone who it's going to be that's joining us? Shall we? Well, our guest at the bar today has built an incredible career around two great British institutions, pubs and exceptional food. Cool. He's a Michelin-starred chef, best-selling author, and one of the most recognisable faces in British food and drink. It's Tom Kerridge. Speaker 3 (1:14) Hello, Tom. Thank you. Come on, mate. One of the most recognisable faces in what? Food? British food and drink. British Speaker 2 (1:20) food and drink. That's nice, isn't it? Got clapped coming into a bar. I like that. It's Speaker 3 (1:25) been Speaker 2 (1:25) a while. Usually Speaker 3 (1:26) you're clapped as you leave. Speaker 2 (1:27) Yeah, exactly. Thanks for coming. How Speaker 3 (1:29) are you, mate? You OK? I'm all right, thank you. Good, man. Well, look, we'll get straight to it. You're sat at a bar. You need a drink. Jack, what's a welcome drink? Well, this is a Speaker 1 (1:37) fun one. I figured I would take a leaf out of a chef's cookbook. La Russe Gastronomique. Yeah. There's a lovely little recipe in there called a figuette, which is probably, I think it's the only drink recipe in there. It's like a little palate cleanser. And it's just some really high quality Michelin figs steeped with some juniper and some water. I just thought it'd be really fun to recreate. Sounds delicious. Yeah, I've never really made it before and it's been a really lovely exploration. I've just added a little bit of acid to it to balance it out. So it's a proper old school from LaRouche, yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (2:09) For people who don't know what that book is, like me, for example, what? It's kind of like a French culinary Bible, basically. It's old school. So you might have heard of a chef called Escoffier. So a real old school chef Bible of classic French cuisine. Of like lots of recipes that you'd never really replicate. And I didn't realise they had a drink in it. Yeah, it's like a tome, isn't it? It's like 1930s. Speaker 3 (2:34) It's what I use to put my laptop on when I'm doing a Zoom call. Because it's perfect. It brings it up to eye level. Speaker 2 (2:40) Yeah, it's a pretty solid book that this, I mean, to have gone through it and looked at all the recipes, that's fair play. Speaker 1 (2:45) It's Google, isn't it? Speaker 2 (2:46) Yeah. So you haven't actually got a Speaker 1 (2:49) copy of it? I've got a copy of it, but I've not gone through every single recipe. There Speaker 2 (2:52) we go. Right, Speaker 1 (2:53) let's give it a go. Cheers. Cheers, guys. Oh, that's unusual, Jack. Speaker 2 (2:57) That's really nice, isn't it? It's kind of like sweet and rounded. It's like iced tea. Yeah, it does taste very tea-like. It's a bit, it's like posh Lipton. Speaker 1 (3:08) Yeah, yeah. Slightly thicker, like a syrupy version. I was quite worried. I mean, the only thing is that in the images I've seen online, it's like a ruby, ruby red. I think that might just be like how long you steep the figs Speaker 4 (3:23) in Speaker 1 (3:23) it. Speaker 4 (3:23) Possibly. Speaker 1 (3:23) Because sometimes you can leave it up to a month and it starts really developing flavor, but I'd be worried about it fermenting at that point. Speaker 3 (3:30) But this is nice. Yeah, this is really good and for the observant people that are watching this show a non-alcoholic drink I think for the first time Since we've done this show Possibly yeah, yeah, and Speaker 2 (3:42) because you don't you don't drink anymore. I'm gonna completely T total non-drinker coming up 13 years 13 years. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 3 (3:51) it gets easier. Yeah. Speaker 2 (3:53) Yeah. Yeah, it's not it's absolutely not bothering them It used to be I mean, I think the first year First year, actually the first year I fell off the wagon about four times and then after that it's kind of like got it all together. So yeah, and then now I don't even think about it. In fact... Like in some like hanging around places where there's people that are under the influence of alcohol it kind of joy I'll get driven away from it. I know I'm not interested in I'm not in the same wavelength. I'm not in the same space. So yeah, so it's not really The thought of alcohol is very different to them the sort of the social space That's the being the thing of making the difference being able to hang out in a social space Where it does evolve right being in a bar in this environment compared to just actually what? what the alcohol does to you, separating the two. And that is the thing that takes time and gets easier. Speaker 3 (4:43) What was the thing that made, was there a turning point where you thought, right, that's enough? Speaker 2 (4:49) Yeah, there was quite a few of them. Yeah, I mean, there was quite a few points. I mean, I was very good at Speaker 3 (4:55) it. Speaker 2 (4:55) I was like Olympic class at drinking. Like I was the best. I was like in an industry that's full of... you know slightly uh crazed dream culture kind of like chefs i was i was i was the ultimate i was like the bet but there was a point where i was approaching my 40th birthday and it was it was an age thing there wasn't a health issue although there was clearly massive health issues i was well over 30 stone and was drinking between 8 and 16. Pints of strong lager every night and probably half a bottle of gin on top of that. Every day, every day, every day, every day, every day. And it would be like, right, okay, I've got to the point now where... And that wasn't during the day. That was after the last main course would go. Then I'd start drinking and then I'd be back in and work again by 7.30 the next morning. So it would Speaker 3 (5:44) be... You were squeezing Speaker 2 (5:45) it Speaker 3 (5:45) into it. Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:46) yeah, yeah, yeah. That was within probably a three-hour period every evening. then I'd sleep for a little bit and then go back to work. And it was quite an intense experience. I mean, I look back at it strangely with, I miss it. I miss that guy. I miss the chaos. I miss the hedonistic lifestyle. I miss everything about all of those things. I also fully embrace it as being a position in a route of escapism from where I'm being driven in a business. So I've taken a business and where you push a high pressured environment was just space to escape into yeah, and I think when you look back at and then probably lots of people would tell you the same if they if they're an alcoholic and have recovered from it and talk about it and There is it there isn't anywhere else There isn't anybody else that knows how you feel right in that moment like it's your own perfect selfish space and if your world is working behind a bar in hospitality as a chef, running a restaurant, owning a pub, where you're trying to give everything and be like, where do you get that bit of you? And that bit of you, you get an instant impact driven with it, whether it's, and there'll be chefs or people within the industry, you know, there's a hotbed for it or previously has been for it. Alcohol issues drug issues gambling issues. There's always something where there's an escape scape is only an escape thing So it was kind of like that was the point of just going so without it I wouldn't have been I don't think I'd have been able to drive forward Businesses and get to that point without being able to escape so that it was kind of interesting this whirlwind So what you use now as an escape? You still need one. Yeah. Yeah. I use work a lot. You know, I travel a lot. I work a lot. I put 100 percent effort into everything. I try. I get to the gym. I try and get to the gym. I don't know, five, six times a week and try and do like I attack numbers. I try to. Yeah, I like doing things. I like attack deadlifts. And, you know, there's just all sorts of different things. I'll just find the thing that I'm going. Well, that's what I'm going to do. Well, that's what I'm going to do. That's Speaker 3 (7:51) what Speaker 2 (7:51) I'm going to do. So Speaker 3 (7:51) this is whatever you're into, whether it's booze or exercise. You go heavy. Yeah, I Speaker 2 (7:55) try and go, I try and, yeah, I try and do everything 100%. There isn't anything else that I like. I don't know another. There's no medium. There's no a little bit. All or nothing. That's exactly it. It's all or nothing. Yeah, there's never a that'll do attitude ever. It'll be like. Speaker 3 (8:12) Well, that's good to know because we're going to play a game now. I was just thinking the same thing. And John expects 100 % at all times. I'll Speaker 2 (8:18) give Speaker 3 (8:18) it 100%. He expects it. Dedication. So this is called this or that. Speaker 4 (8:22) Yeah. Very simple. I'll give you two choices. You choose your fave of the two. Speaker 2 (8:26) Yeah. I like Matt. Yeah, he is good, isn't he? Speaker 3 (8:29) Sorry, John. See, 100 % Tom, you've got to... Sorry, yeah, it's also concentrating. Speaker 2 (8:34) I also, just so you know, I have concentration issues as well. So it's like... Speaker 4 (8:38) Squirrel! Speaker 2 (8:41) Yeah, 100%. Yeah, all right. No, I'm listening. It's okay. We're on. We're in. Pub or restaurant? Pub. Steak or seafood? Speaker 4 (8:50) Steak. Tea or coffee? Coffee. Pie Speaker 2 (8:53) or curry? Am I making it or eating it? They're all. I think eating. Curry. Ketchup or brown sauce? Brown sauce. Breakfast Speaker 4 (9:06) or dessert? Speaker 2 (9:07) Breakfast. I don't really... I've not really got a sweet tooth and I don't normally do breakfast. So what about dessert for breakfast? Speaker 4 (9:15) There we go. Why Speaker 2 (9:16) not? Flip it Speaker 4 (9:17) on its head. Table seat or at the bar? Speaker 1 (9:19) At the bar. Yeah. Speaker 4 (9:21) Influencers or restaurant critics? Restaurant critics. Speaker 2 (9:24) I think, yeah, restaurant critics. Although, f***ing hell. Speaker 4 (9:28) We'll get to that in a minute. We'll get to that in a minute. One to pick up on. Fat chips or skinny fries? Speaker 2 (9:33) Well, it depends where you are. If you're like hanging out in parts of France and skinny like a proper French fry, like in, you know, in Europe is great, but probably fat chips. Speaker 4 (9:45) Cooking or presenting? Cooking. Speaker 2 (9:48) Sunday roast or fish and chips? Oh, that's quite odd. Fish and chips. I love the romance of it, but I think Sunday roast because it's a connection with family. So Sunday roast. Country pub or city restaurant? Country Speaker 4 (10:04) pub. Yeah, country pub. Marlow or London? Oh. Speaker 2 (10:12) Marlowe, I love Marlowe because I come into London. I love living here. I lived here for such a long time and I think it's amazing. And I probably use it more now that I don't live here. Do you know what I mean? Like you come in and I'm here three or four times a week and then I use it and visit places. Do you know what I mean? Like touristy stuff. When you live here, you're just kind of like, you're just cool living in London. But I like living just outside of it and then coming in and using it to go to a show or go to whatever. So Marlowe. Speaker 4 (10:39) Early morning or late night? I do both. I love Speaker 2 (10:42) both. Like absolutely I love both. I mean... Just say no. I'm just trying to think. What do I prefer? I prefer... I think I really like being up before everybody. This time of year is amazing. So I sleep with the curtains wide open and the window wide open and no matter when. But right now, the sun's coming up at like half past four in the morning, the birds are singing and whatever. And I love that, being up