The Real-Life Ari Gold: How Ari Emanuel Built a Hollywood Empire

Aspire with Emma Grede

Ari Emanuel discusses his journey from the CAA mailroom to building Endeavor, focusing on how he leveraged dyslexia and early adversity as p

Key takeaways

Ari Emanuel used his experience with dyslexia to develop high emotional intelligence (EQ) and unique problem-solving skills.
The importance of 'asking for the job' and having agency is a core principle learned from early career struggles.
Emanuel describes his transition from an aggressive, 'shooting from the hip' style to a more diplomatic leadership approach.
His business growth involved strategic moves like merging with William Morris and acquiring major entities like IMG and UFC.
He emphasizes that success requires continuous learning, routine, and acting on 'wonder.'

Main topics

Overcoming dyslexia
Leadership evolution
Business expansion strategies

Notable quotes

You have to ask for the job. You have to ask.

Conclusion

The episode provides a blueprint for turning personal challenges into

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:09) On Aspire, I want to understand what successful people had to learn the hard way and turn those lessons into something you can use in your own life and work. I absolutely ate up Ari Emanuel's new memoir, Roll the Course. And the more I read, the more of myself I recognized in his story. We're both dyslexic and we both learned to turn the things that could have held us back into fuel. Ari started in the CAA mailroom and went on to co-found Endeavor and build one of the most powerful businesses in entertainment. I wanted to talk to him because his career is a blueprint for turning challenges into an advantage and for recognizing when the qualities that made you successful need to evolve. As you listen, I want you to notice what Ari does with discomfort. He says what he wants, acts on his curiosity and keeps working until he finds a way forward. That... is the real playbook inside this conversation. Speaker 2 (1:11) Ari Emanuel, welcome to Aspire. Speaker 1 (1:13) Thank you very much for having me. Speaker 2 (1:14) I look at you and see your career as such a blueprint for turning what makes you different and things that would normally be considered adversity into what it takes to succeed. A lot of people who will be listening to this podcast will have something that feels like it stands between them and what they intend to be. So can Speaker 1 (1:32) I ask you a serious question? So when you decided to start your business and you said, okay, this is what I'm going to go for. And this is what I Hopefully I've taught my kids. Hopefully you're teaching your kids. And I think you teach your kids through osmosis by them witnessing you. You have to ask for the job. You have to ask. You have to have agency for yourself. I advocate for my clients. I'm a fierce, you know, I'm a do or die guy. You know, I'm a ride or die guy with people. But then you have to be a ride or die guy for what you. want and you have to say what you want or you're definitely not going to get what you want. 100%. And if you're not willing to do that, how the fuck are you going to ever get them? And for some reason, I think it's hard for people to announce verbally, say it like. I want this money. I want that. I want to, this is who I want to be. You're Speaker 2 (2:24) preaching to the converted. I'm the start with yourself girl. The name of my book was start with yourself because it's the only way that I ever knew how, because nobody is ever going to come and pluck you from obscurity and say, what are all the things that you need and want? And let me see how I can do that for you. For an agent, dyslexia is. debilitating. So much of what I saw coming up in my career was agents reading and reading nonstop. And I just wonder- That's one of the Speaker 1 (2:47) reasons I picked television. Because in television, a half hour was like 39 pages and an hour was like 60, whatever it is. A lot easier than a movie script, which I just was used to sweat because you have to do coverage when you're in the mailroom and when you're on a desk. I used to sweat when they gave me. You know, those feature scripts. And when they gave you television, okay, I can get through that. I can get through five, six, seven, you know, whatever. That's Speaker 2 (3:11) why I chose fashion because there was just nothing to read at all. These will make your butt look good. Done. Looking back now, how much of your success do you attribute to having something that you had to fight against? It Speaker 1 (3:23) drove me, you know, I hate when people say, I was very competitive. I'm as competitive as everybody else. You might be a little bit more competitive. But I just... wanted to win. And for me, that was like being successful. That definition was being the best and having my own business. I looked around and I said to myself, when I was at ICM and read the book by George Gilder, Life After Television, everybody said the television business is dead and this, and I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. So let's go for it. And, and when I was a kid, you know, you can't read. And my mother made sure that I could read. And I'm okay with because of maybe that and because of the way my parents brought me up. I'm okay with awkward situations. I don't need people to agree with me. In our family, you came to dinner, you fought about politics, you gave your opinion. And all those things enabled me to say, stand up for myself. Speaker 2 (4:23) And Speaker 1 (4:23) I take my hat off to my mom and dad for doing that with the three of us. I think all three boys. You Speaker 2 (4:29) turned out all right. Speaker 1 (4:30) And so. I'm okay in the uncomfortable. Speaker 2 (4:34) One, Speaker 1 (4:35) it was not comfortable not being able to read like everybody else. And two, my parents taught me that it's okay to fight and argue and discuss things. Some people get a little offended because I do it probably a little louder than most people in this town that you're supposed to just get along. It's not like I'm not getting along, but I'm not just going to agree just to agree, not to have a conversation. Speaker 2 (4:58) You say openly that Rage and Chaos were... instruments of your success. So when did they actually help you? And when did they cost you something? Speaker 1 (5:05) People think that there wasn't strategy behind it. Um, and that it was just shooting from the hip. And sometimes it was just shooting from the hip, but, and not caring what the outcome is. Cause I'll live with it. One is after you just actually, but two, after I got hit by the car and I say, life's not a dress rehearsal, Speaker 2 (5:22) it's Speaker 1 (5:23) not. So what do you hear? like somebody's going to push you around and try and impose their will on you and you're not going to fight back, you got the wrong fucking person. That's not who I am. And that goes into being an advocate for yourself and being agency for yourself. And I'm doing that for other people. I'll do it for myself. If somebody's trying to bully us or take advantage of the company or me or my client, that's just not how I roll. Speaker 2 (5:47) You were bullied and you called yourself the dumb one. So is there any part of you that feels... that you need to prove that label wrong. Speaker 1 (5:54) Well, there was the smart one, which was Zeke. There was the artist, which was Ram. And sometimes I refer to him as the other one, the dumb one. In our house, grades were up. You didn't get really good grades. You were grounded. That creates anxiety at one point, but also being pissed off because being dyslexic, you don't think you're dumb. It's just, you think differently. And I think back in the day, I'd have given my left arm not to be dyslexic, but it does as Alex Karp says. enables you to think freely in a different way and think about things and organize people and do things differently and respecting yourself because you're the only one in that situation that actually can. And as you get older, you realize dyslexia is actually an advantage. And one of the reasons I wrote the book, I wanted parents to realize that if things are, you don't coddle your kid. Yeah, it's very difficult when they're dyslexic and to teach them to read or send them the Linda Wood Bell that I did with my kids. I did the same. And it's very difficult for them. It's, you know, it's heartbreaking. It's hard for us. Speaker 2 (6:58) That bloody Linda Wood Bell nearly killed me. Yeah, exactly. Speaker 1 (7:01) But if you let him go through it, he or she, she gets emotional endurance and she can advocate for herself and she can handle tough stuff. Yes, there's other psychological things, but let them deal with it when they get older and you'll be there for them. And they know that there's love and kindness behind it from you. They come out on the other side of it and it's just incredible because you just have this EQ, this advocacy, this ability to withstand stuff. It's a great... It's great now. And Speaker 2 (7:36) I'm glad that you frame it in that way, because there is a part in the book where you almost feel a sense of guilt for passing it on to your kids, which I felt. And again, well, of course you would. But to your point, there's so much that if handled and treated properly, that your kid gets out of having something like that, that they have to conquer at a young age, that it actually ends up being a superpower, as you say, in so many ways. I do want to just talk about the bullying thing for a second because Speaker 1 (8:02) I do think it's important and so many people are bullied in school. Has Speaker 2 (8:05) any of that stayed with you? Even as successful as you are today, is there any part of you that still feels like you've got something to prove? Speaker 1 (8:12) Well, if I think somebody is trying to do something that for some reason I think they're questioning my intelligence, they're trying to pass one over me or questioning whether I'm seeing the world the way I'm seeing the world. For me, that's like calling me stupid. Yeah. Right? And that dog doesn't hunt for me. And that's where a lot of the rage came in. Now, I don't know when this exactly happened, doing a lot of work. And I said to myself, and I came actually into a meeting at the company on a Monday morning meeting after going away to India. And I said to myself, you know, I've helped grow this company through rage and through aggression. It's not going to take us, it's going to get us so far. And I've got to change. And admitting that. is the only way and understanding that. And it took a long time after admitting it to get there. And Speaker 2 (9:05) I understand that because I think that for so many people, you can use that idea of this is just how I am to avoid changing. Which part of yourself have you genuinely had to change to become a better leader? Speaker 1 (9:16) Well, it used to be at times I would shoot in an aim, right? There's an incident with Irving, who's now a friend of mine. That was a crazy, stupid shoot. I mean, it was just insane. I was insane. And Dr. Calm in the book, my shrink at the time, like he screamed at me and I realized there was moments like you can't do this. If you want to be a leader and succeed, it's embarrassing for myself, God forbid for my kids, for the company. And once you hit a couple of those and you get punched in the face and you're actually self-reflective. you start to change if you really want to get to the next level. A lot of people like say they want to, but don't. Dr. Speaker 2 (10:00) Calm, you refer to throughout the book. You've done a lot of therapy, you've done a lot of work on yourself, but like, what does it actually look like to reverse that type of behavior? So Speaker 1 (10:08) it was- When it's got you so far. I wasn't nervous that I was, if I changed, it was going to all fall apart. And then I also realized through Dr. Calm that I wasn't stupid, even though- I was the third one or the dumb one or whatever. There was a moment in my life where I've taken over William Morris. My parents come out to visit. My dad's asking me questions about what's going on in business. He didn't really understand it anyway. And I give him the whole thing. And classic. Speaker 1 (10:41) parents, my parents. And they said, well, who does all that? And I just turned to him and I'm like, well, it's definitely not my brother's deacon. It's definitely not Rob, right? And it was a classic moment. And so Dr. Kamm says to me at one point. You know, back in the 50s, people who were successful in business were considered smart. And that like was an aha moment. Like, yeah, I mean, that's stupid. It's kind of happening and people are trusting me to invest in me. And then. Truly, I did some psychedelics that also realized, you know. What'd you do? MDMA. I've done ayahuasca. Right. And that also kind of like. Speaker 2 (11:25) Opened you up. Speaker 1 (11:26) It kind of says to you the following. Life is not, you know, we're a pimple on the ass of an ant. And it's a big place. Speaker 1 (11:36) You're just, and it got rid of the ego, which Dr. Kahn talked about a little bit. And I don't believe in legacy, any of those things that for whatever reason I had in the back of my head and it was operating based on. And so, yeah, that was a, I've now been married four years, dated this woman before that, my wife Stodd for, I think four years before that. And, um... she's helped also that this, that my relationship with her, it's been incredible. And so we've been on this great journey together. Speaker 2 (12:13) Amazing. It was funny, actually, you just talking about your therapist. I think he called you the, um, the most simple and the most complicated client he'd ever had, which I Speaker 1 (12:22) thought, yeah, Speaker 2 (12:22) that sounds about right. I want to kind of take it back to the beginning of your career, because it's so important for people to understand this idea of making yourself useful before you have any power. And you came up like, through the mailrooms at CAA. I wonder what that taught you about how power actually works. Speaker 1 (12:40) I started in the mailroom at CAA here and Mike Ovitz was God. I mean, he was God. I mean, he was incredible. First of all, what he created was, I mean, he's on Mount Rushmore. Speaker 2 (12:51) Unprecedented. I mean, it's incredible. His Speaker 1