Andrew Rosen Built Theory and Backed SKIMS – Here’s What He’d Tell Every Founder

Aspire with Emma Grede

In this episode, fashion industry veteran Andrew Rosen shares the trajectory of his multi-decade career, from managing his family's manufacturing

Key takeaways

• Andrew Rosen learned from his father, Carl Rosen, that it is more important to be respected than to be liked.
• The founding of Theory was built on the innovation of using Lycra and stretch fabrics to meet the needs of a changing workforce.
• Rosen advises entrepreneurs to focus on 3-6 month milestones during the survival phase rather than being overwhelmed by long-range plans.
• He emphasizes that business longevity requires evolving alongside the consumer instead of merely repeating past successes.
• A key piece of advice for founders is to 'experiment on someone else's money' rather than risking their own capital.

Main topics

• Family business legacy
• The founding and scaling of Theory
• Lessons from professional failure

Notable quotes

People don't have to like you, they have to respect you.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a profound lesson in resilient entrepreneurship

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:09) My guest today is Andrew Rosen, one of the most influential people in American fashion. Andrew grew up in the fashion business. His family's been in it for three generations, and he went on to become the co-founder and CEO of Theory. He's been involved with brands including Frame, Rag & Bone, Alison Olivia, Veronica Beard, TWP. The list goes on and on. As an early investor in both Good American and Skims, he's also been one of my closest mentors, and so I know firsthand how much wisdom he brings to a business. What makes Andrew so valuable is that his advice comes from actually doing the work. He started running the family business in his 20s, lost control of that company, got fired from the CEO job at Anklein, and then started over more than once. I loved his perspective on this, and I hope you'll listen for the lesson, not to mention the invaluable advice he took from his own father, Carl Rosen. We get into so much in this episode, including the advice that he gave me at the very beginning of Good American, How Can I Forget? We talk about what the great brands of the 90s and the early 2000s understood that brands today have simply forgotten, and where he thinks that fashion is headed right now. Here's my conversation with my dear friend, the one and only, Andrew Rosen. Speaker 2 (1:24) Getting kids to eat a perfectly balanced diet every day is not always realistic. Some days are great, some days are not, and most parents are just trying to make the routine a little easier. For parents looking for a straightforward way to support their kids' nutrition, Ella Ola is a well-designed option. It's Speaker 1 (1:40) a Speaker 2 (1:40) tasteless, colourless multivitamin powder for toddlers and kids ages 2 to 11. Each daily sachet can be mixed into whatever they're already eating or drinking. You can stir it into milk, yogurt, juice, oatmeal, even a bit of ketchup. Each sachet has 19 essential vitamins and minerals, plus nutrients from 15 organic fruits and vegetables. It has zero sugar, no artificial dyes or sweeteners, and it's free of the top nine allergens. Ella Ola was developed with pediatricians and it has won the Clean Label Project Purity Award, which tests for over 200 toxins and contaminants and verifies products labeling for accuracy. Ella Ola is offering my listeners 20 % off your first purchase. Just go to ellaola.com slash Emma. Discount applied automatically. no code needed. Try it risk-free with Ella Ola's 45-day money-back guarantee. Go to ellaola.com slash Emma for 20 % off your first purchase. Speaker 2 (2:43) Andrew Rosen, welcome to Aspire. Speaker 1 (2:45) Thank you. Nice to be here. Speaker 2 (2:47) I am so happy to have you here. You are obviously a dear, dear friend to me, which I feel like should be the kind of opening of this podcast. So everybody knows someone that I would consider an absolute mentor and someone whose opinion I respect more than... most out there, I would say. I really give you a lot of credit from turning definitely me from like a marketeer into more of a brand owner. So I'm going to give you a lot of credit during this interview, but that's the first bit of credit. And for people that don't know you, when I think about you and your career and your legacy and all that you've done, it deserves a little bit of a roll call. You've been on every side of fashion. You've been involved in so many companies. When I started thinking about... How is this episode going to be titled? I was like, the king of American contemporary fashion, the king of New York, like all of these silly things. But let's just do a list of companies that you've been involved in, that you've advised, that you're on the board of, that you've founded. It's a who's who of American fashion from Theory to Rag and Bone, Alison Olivia, Veronica Beard, Forenza Shuler, TWP, which I love, by the way, Helmut Lang. Then we have Skims and we have Frame and we have Good American. It's Speaker 1 (3:58) a Speaker 2 (3:58) lot. And that's not even a full list. The thing that I always think about whenever I'm about to call you, which is often, is that I get to speak to someone who isn't just an investor who is talking the talk, is someone who's walked the walk. And that is why your advice is so, it's just so useful. Like whatever I speak to you about on the phone, I then go and do. It's not theoretical. It's not like, oh, you know, I've seen in some data. It's like... here's Speaker 1 (4:23) the Speaker 2 (4:23) fucking thing. And this is what's probably going to work. Speaker 1 (4:25) Well, it's sweet of you to say all that because when I was going on this podcast, I didn't realize what a cultural icon you have become. And all the girls in my office tell me you're going on her podcast. That's going to change your whole career. Speaker 1 (4:40) Well, Speaker 2 (4:41) you needed something, obviously. I mean, it's so funny because I have known you for the longest time and there's been so much change, I think, from those early days. I knew you, obviously, when you invested in Frame, but I got to work with you at the beginning of Good American because you were... one of the initial investors. And I feel like every time I phoned you, I kind of had to put my suit of armor on because I was going to hear something that was going to be Speaker 1 (5:05) really Speaker 2 (5:05) hard. Unfortunately, I like to tell Speaker 1 (5:06) the truth. Unfortunately. Whether it's true or not. I don't know Speaker 2 (5:10) that much has changed, actually. I still feel like I need my Speaker 1 (5:13) suit of armor. Actually, the first time we met was not there. The first time we got involved, when Jens and Eric were working with me at Theory and the branding and all, you tried to... convinced me that celebrity and influencer was the way to go. Speaker 2 (5:29) Tried being the operative word. It's really true. Unfortunately, at that point in my career, things had gotten so big that you would get to the owner. And I say, unfortunately, because I would have much rather pitch a market in person. I was like, I could have got that Siddhartha guy or whoever it was, but they sent me into your office. You had the horse riding on, which I was like. Is this the rudest person I've ever met in my life? Yeah, so you had one eye on me, one eye on the race, and you basically told me why everything I was saying was totally wrong and why that would devalue your brand and you didn't want to do it. Speaker 1 (5:59) Yeah, but the truth of the matter is you were right at the end of the day. I just didn't realize it back then. Speaker 2 (6:04) I love that you say that. That's very, very kind of you. Obviously, you've been on the side of so many businesses in so many different roles. And I wonder what role has taught you the most about... whether a business is going to succeed or fail. Speaker 1 (6:18) What's taught me the most is being involved. I'm doing everything that founders are doing every day. And I'm involved in selecting fabrics and manufacturing and in the retail, in dealing with customers, dealing with wholesale accounts. So I totally understand the business from all facets. And I think that, you know, that started when I was young. I worked for my dad, who was a real legend in the industry, a really incredible person. And I started working the warehouses, the factories, and learned the business from the bottom up. That's the way I was brought up. And that's what I'm still doing today. I Speaker 2 (6:58) really want to go back over your career trajectory, because I think the reason that you're such a pivotal investor and you've had so much success is because of all the things that you've done because of your history. But before we go back, I want to understand, what do you think is just the Biggest mistake that you see brands make these days? I Speaker 1 (7:15) think they try to do everything too quickly. There's sort of a cadence for when things need to happen because brands want to be around a long time. And they look at brands that have been around for 15 years and they've been around two years and they want to do what they do. It's just not going to happen. The evolution of companies is what's important. And where you start is not where you end up. Speaker 2 (7:40) If you were giving the founders and the entrepreneurs that are listening now, I have a highly ambitious audience. They want it all. They want to be the next Skims. They want to be the next big thing. What would you say to those that have started something and are in a rush to see it grow, to see it thrive, to see it get across a Speaker 1 (7:59) certain kind of threshold? When I'm starting something or I'm involved with a young company. I may look down the road a couple of years, but I set my sights three to six months. I don't go too far too fast. And I think companies and founders need to understand, as I say, that this is a journey and it's not something that they have to accomplish overnight. And, you know, the walk of a thousand miles begins with a single step and they got to put one foot in front of the other and get there. They have to do it with passion. They have to do it with a sense of urgency, integrity. They have to be creative. They have to do all the right things, but they have to do it in the appropriate time. Speaker 2 (8:45) Fascinating that you say that, because that would seem to me to eschew some traditional advice that is like, create a long range plan, see your business five years out. Do you think you have to do both that you want to work so closely in three to six months and have the long range plan or no? When Speaker 1 (8:59) you're founding your company, The first thing you have to do is survive. And so if you're looking out too far, you're going to miss too much. When I founded Theory, I was looking at companies that inspired me. A company like Nike, for example, I remember they opened the store on 57th Street. I said, how the hell am I ever going to get there? You're so far away from that that you have to stay in the present a bit. Ultimately, with theory, we got a long way. I mean, we didn't get to Nike, but I certainly got very far. I always believe you have to be inspired by what other companies are doing, not to copy them, but just to be inspired and motivated by them. I think it's important, but I think you do have to stay in sort of the present. Speaker 2 (9:46) Yeah, it was great advice that you gave me because I think in the beginning of Good American, especially. We kind of got a bit high on our own supply. Yeah, I remember you wanted to do Speaker 1 (9:54) those bathing suits. Yeah, he was like, don't do Speaker 2 (9:57) swim. But Speaker 1 (9:59) it was true. And Speaker 2 (10:00) you told Speaker 1 (10:00) me the bathing suits was going to be a great business. It was for one season. It's absolutely Speaker 2 (10:06) not going to be a great business. And you were right. We Speaker 1 (10:08) can Speaker 2 (10:08) talk Speaker 1 (10:08) about the shoes also. Speaker 2 (10:10) We've got so many mistakes to talk about. We could be here all day. But I do remember something that you said to me, which was. that I should listen to my customer because I'm going to need to address what they're saying in the following season. And you were like, don't be so far out that you're getting carried away on what you think you should be doing because you need to respond. Well, Speaker 1 (10:29) you know, a lot of people compare this season to what it was last year. Speaker 2 (10:36) And Speaker 1 (10:36) I don't look at last year. I more look at what the momentum is over the last. three months. I really don't try to copy what I did last year. I try to evolve and move forward from last year. It's Speaker 2 (10:50) a curse for retail businesses, right? To be too L-Y focused. If you Speaker 1 (10:53) think about it, the world is evolving so fast. The consumer's evolving, fashion's evolving, and companies have to evolve with that. And those companies that get stuck in trying to repeat what they've done before. they get in trouble. I'm not saying you throw everything out, but you really have to be conscious of evolving with the world. So Speaker 2 (11:15) Andrew, take me back because you're full of wisdom, but you got here in a very specific way. You're actually like a third generation fashion person. Will you just talk me through the trajectory of your career? Because it really is quite... fascinating. And I think talk about have so much responsibility at such a young age that does so much to a person. I Speaker 1 (11:35) mean, my father, as I said earlier, was an amazing man, a great mentor and inspiration for me. And I always knew at a young age that I was going to go into his business. I was the youngest of four children. And it was just always something that I think I knew and he knew was going to happen. Throughout my whole youth, I was doing the kinds of things he liked to do. I was playing golf. I was going to the racetrack with him. I was doing all the kinds of things, though my father was not one of those, you know, kind of dads that would throw the ball with you. I had to participate in what he was doing. He wasn't participating in what I was doing, but he sort of wanted me to go to college. And I went to college for one year, but I just went to play golf. And that's what I was doing at the time. My uncle came to me and he said to me, when are you ready to go to work for your dad? I was 19 years old. He said, when are you ready to go to work for your dad? I'm going to call your dad and tell him. I said, you can call him today and tell him. My dad was smart because he put me on a program to really learn the business from the inside out. And I started working at a knitting mill in Long Island. I then went to a factory in New Bedford, Massachusetts, worked on the sewing floor, worked in the warehouse, really understood what... the whole process of making clothes was all about. Speaker 2 (12:55) And your dad's business was manufacturing, Speaker 1 (12:57) essentially. My father was in the dress business, but he had Gloria Swanson, he had paraphernalia, he had a lot of different companies. I spent about nine months working in the showroom just as a salesman, just learning the business. But my dad, he used to have me in a lot of meetings that he had with all the big department stores. Whatever he was doing, he had me in the different meetings. So I was acquiring a lot of knowledge along the way. He then, in 1978, got the license with Calvin Klein to make Calvin Klein jeans. Tell Speaker 2 (13:34) me how many pairs of jeans were they making? Speaker 1 (13:37) Well, the jeans were $16.50 to $20 wholesale. So that was $35 to $45 retail. And he was paying Calvin a dollar a pair for every jean he sold. And he was paying him $20 million a year. So he was selling a lot of jeans. Wow. Crazy. Speaker 2 (14:00) But, Speaker 1 (14:01) you know, this is 1970s, early 1980s. I said to my dad, no one in the company understands the men's business here. Why don't I take a shot at running this men's business for you? and I was 22 years old. Crazy. And it got off to a little bit of a rocky start. And I went to my dad and I said, after about six months or nine months, I said, maybe you want someone else to do this. He says, no, I'm sticking with you. Once we went through the first Christmas, took off. And the men's business grew to $100 million within three years. It was crazy. So I had sort of made a reputation for myself at a pretty young age. No doubt. My dad got sick in 1982 and he had cancer. And the company was doing... 300 odd million dollars at that time. Which Speaker 2 (14:53) to contextualize, like 1982, I know that year because it's the year of my birth, 44 years ago. So it's like a billion dollar something company in today's terms, right? It's Speaker 1 (15:03) huge, huge. Speaker 2 (15:04) And you are 26 years old at that point? 26. Speaker 1 (15:08) And my dad passed away a year later and I had to become the CEO of the company. If I thought about it today, it would be frightening. I think it was just something I knew I had to do. And I became the CEO of a New York Stock Exchange company. Did Speaker 2 (15:23) you understand the magnitude of what you were stepping into? Speaker 1 (15:26) No, not at all. Really? No, I didn't even think about it. It's not even that I didn't understand it. I didn't think about it. You just Speaker 2 (15:33) did it out of Speaker 1 (15:34) obligation? That was just the responsibility that I had. Speaker 2 (15:38) And Speaker 1 (15:39) my dad was, he was sick for about a year before he passed away. And over that year, he... did as much as he could to help and train me to be prepared for it. The one thing that also happened is he had a best friend who was a lawyer. And that individual who since just passed away over the last year became like a second father to me. And actually, although I lost my father with this fellow, Miles Rubin, I never felt like I didn't have a father. He was amazing. I think that was sort of a factor that helped me a lot. No doubt. One thinks in life that everything is a straight line up and... you know, you're successful through everything. There's a lot of ups and downs and twists and turns. I Speaker 2 (16:28) know how much Miles meant to you because I've known you for so many years and you would always be visiting him. And obviously I knew of his passing. I think one of the reasons that you're able to be such a good mentor to so many is because you had one and you had a great example in both your father before his passing and in Miles that were able to really shepherd you through. This unbelievable career that you were having when you were still really just a kid, like a 26 year old kid, like the idea of taking all of that responsibility and also all the eyeballs that were on you. Will you just talk a little bit about Barry Schwartz and Calvin Klein and what happened when the control of the company changed? Because that was so highly publicized and known in the fashion business. And it could have been something that would sort of kill a person, but it absolutely didn't. Speaker 1 (17:16) Yeah. I mean, there was, there's a lot. written about all of this. But about a year later, the company started to have some trouble and Barry Schwartz and Calvin Klein decided that they were going to, in a hostile takeover, take over the company. And Speaker 2 (17:31) was the company having trouble because you were having trouble running it? Or was it just like the company had grown so quickly? You know, Speaker 1 (17:37) who knows, who knows whether someone else would have done a better job or not. I think the jeans business is quite cyclical. So when we were in a period where the jean business was great, the company was doing well, the jeans business got tough. But clearly at 26 years old, I probably missed a few things along