291: How Your Kid’s Exclusion Hurts You Too | Michelle Icard

Ask Lisa: Untangling Family Life

The episode explores the emotional complexities of middle school social exclusion, using a metaphor of atoms forming chemical compounds to e

Key takeaways

• Middle schoolers act like 'atoms' seeking stable 'compounds,' where exclusion is often a byproduct of group stability rather than personal malice.
• Social shifts occur because adolescents are testing new identities and interests, such as moving from 'childish' play to more mature hobbies.

Main topics

• Middle school social dynamics
• Parental emotional regulation

Notable quotes

Each middle schooler is like an atom, and they all want to be part of chemical compounds.

Conclusion

By focusing on high-quality coping rather than fixing social conflicts

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:02) So a few years ago, I came up with a new metaphor that I love, and you know I love metaphors, and it's about middle school socializing. And the way I have come to think about middle schoolers and socializing is that each middle schooler is like an atom, and they all want to be part of chemical compounds. So some compounds are big. They've got lots of kids. Some compounds are little, two or three kids. Some compounds are really unstable, especially if they're big. Some compounds are more stable. Now where this metaphor has come in most handy for me is when you have a kid who I will call a free-floating atom, they're looking to join a compound, and they can't seem to join a compound where every atom in it seems to like them. So say, for example, you've got four kids who make a compound, they like each other, and they like their stable chemistry as a compound. And say, for example, each of those kids will individually be kind to the free-floating atom when the rest of the compound isn't around. Maybe hanging out on the weekends, maybe sitting next to them in class. Now, it's so confusing for the free-floating Adam because they think, gosh, all of these kids seem to like me or like me enough. But when the four of them are together, I'm not welcome. What's going on? Having this metaphor on hand, sharing it with kids, can help to make things better. When I've needed to do this, here's how. I will explain my whole compound metaphor, and what I will say is those kids have found a stability in that compound that depends on it just being those four atoms. So when the other kids aren't around, they feel comfortable hanging out, but they're not about to welcome in any atom that could threaten the stability of what they have going. Explaining it in this way can help kids to feel, first of all, much better because it doesn't feel so personal. Understand the mixed messages they're getting, like why do those kids sometimes seem to include me but sometimes not include me? And open up options for them. Some kids will just move on, find another free floating atom, find a compound that's still taking atoms and join it. They come up with lots of different solutions, but most important, it helps them to understand some of the confusing information that can be coming their way. Today, I get to talk with my wonderful colleague, Michelle Eichardt. She is a specialist in all things middle school, the author of three fantastic books about middle school. Check our show notes. And she and I talk through a situation like this, where things are shifting fast for middle school friendships. There's a lot of confusing information. and there's a need for a kid to get some support and to try to make sense of it. Let's get into it. Michelle, it's great to have you here. It's great to be here, Lisa. All right, here's our letter. You ready? Ready. Okay. Dear Dr. DeMoore, my daughter, 13, is headed into eighth grade. She's a great kid with strong grades and a sport she loves. Over the past several months, though, she's slowly become the odd one out in a group of eight or nine girls she's grown up with. Plans are made without her, and gatherings are mentioned in front of her. After seeing Speaker 1 (3:06) Snapchat posts Speaker 2 (3:06) of the group together last weekend, she asked my husband through tears if there was something wrong with her. What makes this especially confusing is that the girls who seem closest to her individually continue to send mixed messages. This is made more complicated by the fact that the girl's parents are our close friends. We see them constantly, at the pool, at her games. So just to find new friends isn't simple, and I know from your past advice that talking to the other parents likely will not help. I don't want to rescue her from normal adolescent disappointment, but it's hard to watch repeated exclusion chip away at the kid who's always felt so secure. Should I stay out of it, or help her, and if so, how? How do I step in? Thank you so much. Okay. That's a heavy one. This is heavy. This is Speaker 1 (3:55) heavy. Speaker 2 (3:56) I like to start with the parent and what they're going through. All right. You've seen these situations. I've seen these situations. Like, what is this like for the adult? Speaker 1 (4:03) Well, the adult is feeling a sort of compounded pain here because on the one hand, they're really worried about their child. And whether this is going to be a lifelong scar or change the trajectory of how they do in school. I mean, we start to catastrophize when we're worried about how our kids are doing. So there's that pain. And then there's the pain of, gosh, I'm friends with the parents. Am I allowed to continue being friends with the parents? Is that morally wrong? Should I cut the other parents off? She said, I'm not going to go talk to them about their kids' behavior because I know that's not going to work. But so then what? What do I do? So I think there's a feeling of helplessness and compounded pain that's making this difficult. To watch your kids say, is there something wrong with Speaker 2 (4:49) me? Right Speaker 1 (4:50) through tears. It's the stuff of Hollywood movies. We would all watch that scene and cry in a movie. And we would all be shouting at the screen, no, honey, there is nothing wrong with you. This is so normal that at around this age. As we've talked about before, you and I, kids are figuring out who they are. And parts of that are really fun to watch. Oh, my gosh, they're painting. I didn't know they liked painting. And parts of it are so painful because they're not just looking at new activities and new clothes. They're looking at new friends. And that's painful no matter which side of the equation you're on, whether you're the friend being left behind or you're watching your kid leave another kid behind. Right. I mean, it's not good. It's not fun. Speaker 2 (5:38) I'm going to go ahead on the parent list of feelings. Speaker 1 (5:41) Anger. Oh, yeah, for sure. I think, Speaker 2 (5:43) you know, when our kid is hurt and when we feel like we can point to who's doing the hurting. I think a primal. Speaker 2 (5:54) intense anger. I think that kind of, you know, that phrase mama bear, like I think that's a phrase for a reason. I think it can also leave people grappling with who hurt my kid and where do I take all of this firepower? Speaker 1 (6:08) That's such a good point. And that's debilitating. And there's really no good place for it, is there? I mean. Okay, but that's important, right? Okay, so Speaker 2 (6:19) where does one take it? Because I am in agreement with you. Like, picking up the phone and calling other parents, I get it why people do it, right? Like, we protect our kids above all. And I really mean, like, primal, like, evolutionarily driven. Oh, yeah. Like, someone hurt my child. I am on this. It'll give you nightmares, anxiety dreams, that sort of thing. But I think you and I both recommend, like, those phone calls do not usually go well. So what do you do with the anger? I really like, where does that go? The gym is a good place. Let's start there. Take it over to... Pound out Speaker 1 (6:51) a bag or lift some heavy weight. Seriously, though, we all know that when you're feeling strong emotions, it shows up in your body. So kind of finding a way to get out of your body, I think, is really healthy. I also think those emotions need to be exercised. And I mean that. I don't mean physical exercise. I mean like the exorcist. Yeah. Speaker 2 (7:12) Like Speaker 1 (7:12) they need to be purged from your system somehow. And so a trusted confidant, a therapist, a partner, your own parent, these are people you can complain to pretty safely. You don't want to be casually telling other parents. Maybe they're not the parents of the other kids who are excluding your child, but you don't want to be somebody who's gossiping about little kids' drama. And so you've got to find a real safe place to express. that, but you should be able to express it. Speaker 2 (7:40) I am so with you on this, right? I walk for exercise with a friend a