Lizzo

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Lizzo, the Grammy and Emmy-winning musician and author, joins Armchair Expert for an intimate conversation about her life, career, and perso

Key takeaways

• Lizzo reflects on the deep emotional impact of losing her father at 19, who encouraged her musical ambitions.
• She recounts being mocked in Houston for speaking 'white' and loving anime, highlighting early struggles with identity.

Main topics

• Childhood in Detroit
• Identity and belonging

Notable quotes

"I was going to stand in front of the tree and be like, if you're going to cut this tree down, you have to cut me down."

Conclusion

Lizzo's candid conversation with Dax Shepard reveals her journey from a

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard. Speaker 1 (0:03) I'm joined by Minika Maus. Speaker 2 (0:04) Hello. Speaker 3 (0:05) Hello. Today we have, it's always an honor to have someone that's a one-name artist. That's Speaker 2 (0:11) true. We call that a- Speaker 3 (0:12) You gotta be pretty good to be a one-name artist. Speaker 2 (0:14) I think that's called a mononym. A Speaker 3 (0:16) mononym? That would make sense. Today's mononym is Lizzo, a four-time Grammy award-winning, Emmy award-winning superstar, singer, songwriter, rapper, and actor. Her albums are Cause I Love You, Special, Bitch, and her new book, which is adorable, out tomorrow, called Lil Lizzo Meets Sasha B. Fluton. Speaker 2 (0:39) This is great. Speaker 3 (0:41) Just Speaker 2 (0:41) a wonderful, Speaker 3 (0:41) cute little children's book. It really is sweet. About her love affair with Sasha B. Fluton. Speaker 2 (0:45) Yeah. Oh, Speaker 3 (0:46) it's lovely. And Lizzo, what a party. Speaker 2 (0:48) Really fun. Speaker 3 (0:50) Yeah. Buckle up. Please enjoy Lizzo. Speaker 2 (1:26) He's been wanting to dance with Speaker 1 (1:27) you for years. Yeah, this is... I wish I had had more coffee. Because then I would have really... We can rain Speaker 3 (1:34) check it. Speaker 1 (1:35) I would have brought the moves. The offer Speaker 3 (1:36) stands. Speaker 1 (1:37) I see. You're... Whoa, what is that? Speaker 3 (1:40) Cream top. Speaker 1 (1:41) Oh, that's coffee? From where? Speaker 3 (1:43) Kmart. Speaker 2 (1:44) Kmart? Speaker 1 (1:45) Do those still exist? Speaker 3 (1:47) No. No. I think in Mexico they do. Speaker 2 (1:49) Defunct. Speaker 3 (1:50) Get comfortable. It's a Speaker 2 (1:51) really good coffee shop, Maru. I don't know if you've ever had it, but it's very good. When Speaker 1 (1:55) did you Speaker 2 (1:55) guys get Speaker 1 (1:56) this? Speaker 2 (1:57) I got it Speaker 1 (1:57) like 40 minutes ago. So it's melted. So it's sweet. I'm just kidding. Oh, bitch. Speaker 3 (2:02) I didn't know high maintenance like this. I was not prepared. I thought we were both from Detroit. I'm Speaker 1 (2:07) a diva, honey. Okay. You're from Detroit. Cool. Speaker 3 (2:12) And in fact, I know we both lived there at the same time. Really? Yeah, because I grew up in the suburbs, but as soon as I graduated high school, I moved downtown. And you were there because you were a little child. Oh, Speaker 1 (2:23) I was a child when you were downtown? Yeah, I'm 100 Speaker 3 (2:25) years older than you. Oh, Speaker 1 (2:26) that's right. Okay. What Speaker 3 (2:28) part of Detroit did you live in? Speaker 1 (2:29) I was the East Sider. I grew up till I was about nine, and then I moved to Houston. So my memory of Detroit is more so like family. But I lived off of Chandler Park Drive. I don't know if you know about that. Speaker 3 (2:42) I know the east side. Do you have any memories of like going down to Detroit River on 4th of July? We Speaker 1 (2:47) would go to Belle Isle. Speaker 3 (2:48) Belle Isle. That's where it's at. We would Speaker 1 (2:50) do Belle Isle, Ball Duck Park. And we would go sledding. And then it was horses after that. Speaker 3 (2:56) Did you do a family reunion on Belle Isle? Because that's the move. Yeah. And did you wear matching shirts? We Speaker 1 (3:01) actually do have Kirkwood family reunion green shirts. And we would play volleyball and baseball. Do Speaker 3 (3:09) you ever go down that insane slide that you go in the fucking potato sack and get cut? Speaker 1 (3:13) Yes. Wow. Oh, no. So you really, Speaker 3 (3:15) you're really true. What up, Speaker 1 (3:17) though? Speaker 3 (3:18) And Belle Isle is the most life affirming. Half square mile in America. What is Speaker 2 (3:24) it? A park? So Speaker 3 (3:24) it's a little island in the Detroit River. It was a public park and it was pretty good size. And you would go on Friday nights and cruise or on Saturday and Sunday, it's family reunion time. Oh, Speaker 1 (3:35) that's what we did. Okay. And then Speaker 3 (3:37) you got the matching shirts. So as you're driving by all the barbecues, it's like orange, green, yellow. That's so funny. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (3:43) And then in the winter, they would water down the trees. And so it would be like an ice tree and we would like play. And I had the most wild imagination. I imagine there was like a family of polar bears in this tree and I would slide in and I would be sitting at like ice tables. That's a real memory I have. Yeah. I just remember it was like one of those big pine trees and it was just frozen solid and we would just run and slide and play. That's so Speaker 2 (4:06) fun. Speaker 1 (4:06) On ice. I don't think kids today play with trees. No, Speaker 2 (4:09) they Speaker 1 (4:09) play with their phones. Speaker 3 (4:10) Yeah, they have a video game where you slide under a frozen tree. I Speaker 1 (4:13) had a best friend that was a willow tree in Detroit. A best friend off of Chandler Park in Bishop. There was this giant willow tree and it was my best friend. And I would sit in the willow tree and talk to the willow tree. And I would use the leaves of the willow tree. Well, I was a kid. I didn't know no better. But I would pluck them off and use them as a tail. And I would pretend I was tails from Sonic. And then one day they drew a line across the tree. And I was like, what does this mean? And my mom told me. She was real. She was like, they're going to cut it down. And I was like, why? And they're like, it's blocking. They told us that it was like a hazard and robbers were like hiding underneath it. So the city couldn't find them in the helicopters. Detroit, Gotham City. So I was like, no, I'm not going to let them do this. So I was going to stand in front of the tree and be like, if you're going to cut this tree down, you have to cut me down. And my mom was like, you can do that. But first, you got to go to school, honey. No. Y'all know what happened next. I went to school. I came back. It was a stump. Speaker 3 (5:08) Oh, no. I cried Speaker 1 (5:09) for weeks. I was inconsolable. That was my best and only friend. This Speaker 2 (5:14) is a Speaker 1 (5:14) giving tree situation. I Speaker 2 (5:15) was going to say, are Speaker 1 (5:15) you able to Speaker 3 (5:16) read the giving tree without getting hysterical? Fun Speaker 1 (5:20) fact, that book is about me. No, I'm just kidding. No, it's kind of the opposite. No, I know. Because the little boy in Speaker 3 (5:25) that is a dick. Yeah, Speaker 1 (5:26) he's bad. He's a... Speaker 3 (5:27) I am Speaker 1 (5:27) the tree. Yeah, yeah. Take from me. Literally. Okay, Speaker 3 (5:31) I'm going to make a prediction. Speaker 1 (5:33) Okay. I Speaker 3 (5:33) guarantee I know that there was one night of. the year that you were not allowed to go outside after dark. And that's October 30th. Speaker 1 (5:40) Yeah. Devil's Night, baby. Devil's Night is so crazy. I remember that's not a thing anywhere else. No, but growing Speaker 3 (5:47) up there, you think everyone in the country's got Devil's Night. And then, yeah, when I moved out here, I've never met anyone that's done Devil's Night. And Speaker 2 (5:53) mind you, Speaker 1 (5:53) Texas is an open carry state. So I was like, surely they'll be driving around shooting guns in the air on October 30th. Torching things. But absolutely not. But also, I was a kid in Detroit. So Halloween, even. was a little dicey because it was like, oh, that was when I was putting razor blades in the chocolate. Which, Speaker 3 (6:10) by the way. Is Speaker 1 (6:11) that true? It's not true. It's an Speaker 3 (6:12) urban legend. I learned this in a class at UCLA. There's never been a razor blade in a piece of candy ever. The only time there's ever been poison or something naughty in candy is a parent putting it in the candy of their own child. But there's never been a stranger who's just doling out poisonous or razor blade candy. Speaker 1 (6:34) this happen, y'all? Because I feel like back in the day before, like social media, there were just commonly known urban legends. That was our social media. But that just means that social media is, it's something deeper. It's something real. We had an Speaker 3 (6:47) expert on, on these at one point. There is a math to them. There's something about the details are sticky. So like. They went through like 10 that almost everyone had. It's like there's this famous one about a girl who goes on spring break and she meets a boy and she has sex with him unprotected. Oh Speaker 1 (7:02) my God. And Speaker 3 (7:03) then when she's going to fly home, Speaker 1 (7:04) he Speaker 3 (7:05) gives her a present and he says, don't open the present until you're on the airplane. Do you know the punchline of this one? Does this ring a bell? She gets on the airplane. She unwraps the box and inside is a miniature coffin. And when she opens it up, there's a piece of paper that says, welcome to the wonderful world of AIDS. Speaker 2 (7:24) Okay. I think maybe because y'all were super little during the height of the AIDS thing. Speaker 3 (7:31) But when I was in high school, coming up on spring break, that was being circulated in my school. Like, listen, this happened to a girl two years ago on spring break in Cancun. So don't fuck around. And the expert was like. It's these details, the little coffin. Speaker 2 (7:43) That stay with you. I mean, it's stranger danger. It's like there to protect you, I guess. But it's all made up. Did you know the one about the needles in the- In Speaker 1 (7:51) the Speaker 2 (7:51) chairs in the movie theater. Now, that's Speaker 1 (7:53) what I was Speaker 2 (7:53) going to Speaker 1 (7:53) say. See, they all have the Speaker 3 (7:54) same age, so that makes sense. Yes, Speaker 1 (7:55) and I still look. Yeah, to this day, because you just never know what could be in there. I agree. I am so with you on this. Now, what about the myth about- Okay, now, I don't know if this is a myth, but are public toilet seats- Can you catch something, anything, any type of illness or sickness or disease from a public toilet seat? Speaker 3 (8:15) If you're a married man and you mysteriously end up with HPV, yes. What do you mean? All this shit was made up by married folks to explain why they got an STD somewhere. Oh, got Speaker 1 (8:27) you. Speaker 3 (8:27) They were saying, like, you can get herpes from a hot tub. Speaker 1 (8:30) Wait, so you can't? Speaker 3 (8:31) No, you're not going to get it. What, are you going to rub the inside of your vagina on the seat? You think your butt cheeks are going to pick up some? I don't know, though. Also, most of these STDs die when they're airborne. Speaker 2 (8:41) STDs, but what about like... You Speaker 3 (8:44) can get some fecal matter on your butt cheeks. Yeah, and Speaker 2 (8:46) then you Speaker 3 (8:46) could get bacteria. Speaker 2 (8:46) But Speaker 3 (8:46) that's Speaker 2 (8:46) not Speaker 3 (8:46) a disease. Right, yeah. I think you could get a bacteria. But again, you're going to have to explain how it gets from your butt cheek. Then you move it somehow internally. If anyone wants to write Speaker 2 (8:55) in, if they've experienced this, Speaker 3 (8:57) please. Speaker 1 (8:58) Well, Speaker 3 (8:58) it's going to be a married person. Speaker 1 (8:59) This is true. Some people get in the hot tub naked. Speaker 3 (9:02) Yeah. And Speaker 1 (9:03) then it can. And Speaker 3 (9:04) then they have sex. The Speaker 1 (9:05) heat kills it. But again, Speaker 3 (9:06) it's in 102 degree chlorinated water. Speaker 1 (9:08) Good point. Speaker 3 (9:09) Now, the other one that I was most fascinated by, and by the way, had I never transferred schools, this would have never occurred to me. But I went to an elementary, then a junior high, then transferred districts to another junior high, and then went to a different high school out of a different district, right? And every one of these schools had the exact same three rumors about the kids they didn't like. So there was the girl who got hot dog stuck in her vagina. Yep. I knew her too. You Speaker 1 (9:32) know Speaker 3 (9:32) that one? I didn't have Speaker 1 (9:33) that. Speaker 3 (9:33) The boy who got his dick caught in a pop bottle or a vacuum. And I would go to these schools and they'd be like, you know, Brad got it. And I'm like, no, there was a kid, Trevor, in my old school. They said that about, there's no way both kids did this. I Speaker 2 (9:45) mean, we don't know. Because you kind Speaker 3 (9:47) of believe the hot dog one about the girl in your school. I Speaker 2 (9:49) knew Speaker 3 (9:49) her, Speaker 2 (9:50) kind of. Speaker 1 (9:51) She was a friend of a friend. I don't know. I went to like a black country kind of high school. So I feel like our stuff was like, there was a girl. giving blowjobs in the annex bathroom and it was like a long line but i don't know if that's like an urban legend or like that probably Speaker 2 (10:07) happened that definitely happened Speaker 1 (10:09) yeah we had a girl under the bleachers Speaker 2 (10:11) and you know what Speaker 1 (10:11) more power to her but she's okay i really hope she's okay oh my god Speaker 3 (10:16) jesus Speaker 1 (10:18) when you think about like being in high school when i was in high school i really thought i was grown i really thought i knew everything but now i think about high schoolers Fuck, I think about 20-year-olds. I'm like, they're babies. I know. They don't know Speaker 2 (10:28) anything. Speaker 1 (10:29) Protect the babies. Speaker 3 (10:29) Yeah. Oh, Speaker 2 (10:30) no. The girl who gave a blowjob under the bleachers in my middle school was in sixth grade. And it felt fine. It literally was like, oh, it's happening. People are doing stuff. And now I'm like, that's Delta's age. That makes me want to die. Speaker 3 (10:47) Yeah, don't bring. her into it but yeah you Speaker 1 (10:50) start doing like wait yo same fifth and sixth grade and i was like out like you think back now and you're like oh my god my heart like those poor babies yeah a Speaker 3 (10:59) couple different girls left my eighth grade because they were pregnant oh Speaker 1 (11:03) i Speaker 3 (11:03) had sex in middle school Speaker 1 (11:06) Oh. I just saw a shade of your eyes. You Speaker 3 (11:09) fucking Speaker 1 (11:09) slut. No, I'm going to slut shame you. Well, I Speaker 3 (11:12) know your eyes betray you. You go, what? Speaker 1 (11:16) What are we talking about? What is Speaker 3 (11:18) this show? That's what we do. The show is called Urban Legends by Monica Badman and Dax Everett. You should have listened before you came. Speaker 1 (11:26) Tangent, honey. Speaker 3 (11:27) Okay, so what did mom and dad do in Detroit? Speaker 1 (11:29) They had. multiple businesses. The most prominent business when I was born, I knew was a credit card business. So they sold credit cards. My parents always owned businesses together, as long as I've known them. You know, before I was born, they probably had jobs and stuff and worked for people, but they've never worked for anyone since I was a kid. And I have memories of passing out flyers to this credit card company on the weekends and putting them underneath. car windshield wipers and making it fun with my brother and sister, like a race, like who can get rid of their flyers first. So yeah, that's what they did. They're very collaborative. Speaker 3 (12:02) Were the siblings older or younger? Speaker 1 (12:04) Older. I'm the baby. I'm the mature baby. Tall, sister's short. The oldest is the runt, you know, the little one. Speaker 3 (12:10) It's upside down. Speaker 1 (12:11) So Speaker 3 (12:12) why did they move to Houston when you were nine? Speaker 1 (12:15) I always say for the mortgage business. Speaker 3 (12:17) Okay. The Speaker 1 (12:19) mortgage business. Was Speaker 3 (12:20) there some heat on Speaker 1 (12:21) everyone? Listen, you know what it's like. You have to evacuate Detroit. You don't leave Detroit casually. You have to like flee. And I remember one day I was like in Detroit. And then the next day I was in Houston. My mom was like, hey, we're going to move to Houston. I was like, no. And then I blinked and we were there. So it happened damn near overnight. Not a lot of heads up. That's Speaker 3 (12:38) what Speaker 1 (12:38) I'm Speaker 3 (12:39) asking was maybe there's some heat. Maybe with these credit cards, some of them were maybe a little. No, I don't think the credit cards were. Speaker 1 (12:45) But I'll say my dad was a very infamous person. You either loved him or you wanted to kill him. Okay, okay. Big Speaker 3 (12:51) personality? Speaker 1 (12:53) Yes. Libra. Speaker 3 (12:54) Okay. Yeah. What does that mean, Monica? Speaker 2 (12:56) Well, big Speaker 3 (12:57) personality. Speaker 2 (12:59) Yeah. Good at lying. Speaker 1 (13:01) Charming. Good Speaker 3 (13:02) at lying. Yeah. You might be Speaker 1 (13:03) a rising. Speaker 3 (13:04) Yeah. Let's look. He Speaker 1 (13:06) might be. It gives that or maybe a little Pisces or Aries a little bit rising. That's my rising. Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay. Scary. But Speaker 2 (13:14) I'm a double Virgo otherwise. Oh, great. Speaker 1 (13:17) So I'm Speaker 2 (13:17) good. Yeah. Speaker 3 (13:18) You know what I love about you guys who like astrology? You guys. You Speaker 1 (13:22) people. No Speaker 3 (13:22) matter what. Y'all who like astrology and believe in it. Speaker 1 (13:26) No Speaker 3 (13:26) matter what it is, you guys are equally pumped. That's what's neat about it. It's like there's no strata of what's good and bad. It's just like, Speaker 1 (13:33) you're a Pisces? Oh, great. And you're a Capricorn? Ooh. Because it's good to know. I think you can tell. who really is into the charting of it all and who's just like early horoscopes kind of into astrology because they'll be like, oh, oh. That's because you have a very basic understanding of the signs. But all the signs are great because we're made up of all of them. We're made up of the stars. You know, it's really that. And I think we really nerd out because we like, I'm speaking for you, but I like Sailor Moon. It's an anime. I Speaker 3 (14:00) thought it was one of y'all's gurus who knows a lot about the Speaker 1 (14:02) charts. Speaker 3 (14:04) Doesn't it sound like an astrologist's name? Speaker 1 (14:07) Sailor Moon. That is a fire name for an astrology. Yeah, Speaker 3 (14:10) Sailor Moon, like, as an astrology account. I think you should Speaker 1 (14:13) take it. If Naoko Takaguchi will let me have the name Sailor Moon, then. They're not going to come Speaker 3 (14:18) after you on Instagram. That IP Speaker 1 (14:20) is locked in. That IP is Barbie deep. They probably already Speaker 3 (14:24) own the handle on Instagram. Speaker 1 (14:26) The Sailor Moon handle's taken. It's Speaker 3 (14:28) taken. We haven't looked, but we feel pretty confident it's taken. Speaker 1 (14:31) Master Sailor Moon. There's something there, though. Yeah, Speaker 3 (14:34) yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (14:35) We like it. Wait, I know Speaker 3 (14:36) all your things. So you had Cornwall Click. Speaker 1 (14:39) Oh, you know my music things. Gotcha. Yeah. Speaker 3 (14:41) Or girl, always three R's. Speaker 1 (14:44) Girl. Speaker 3 (14:44) Girl. Three R's though. I spelt it a lot today. So I'm like, is it two R's or four R's? I use it a lot now. It's Speaker 1 (14:50) very. Speaker 3 (14:51) So was it Sailor Moon? Sailor Moon girl. Speaker 1 (14:55) Girl. Speaker 2 (14:56) Sailor with three R's. Speaker 1 (14:58) Get the fuck out of here. You Speaker 3 (15:01) guys now co-own it. Speaker 1 (15:02) Wait. We have a lot Speaker 3 (15:03) of Speaker 1 (15:03) witnesses. S Speaker 3 (15:04) -A-I Speaker 1 (15:04) -L-O-R-R-R. Yes. M-O-O-O. We can try. I think that's a little heavy Speaker 3 (15:11) handed. And then it's like Speaker 1 (15:13) Sailor Moon dresses a cow. Actually, I was going to be Sailor Moo. For Halloween, I was going to be a cow dressed as Sailor Moon. That's great. Speaker 2 (15:21) That Speaker 3 (15:22) is fantastic. That is Speaker 1 (15:24) fantastic. Speaker 3 (15:25) Your leave here today was something. It'll have been worth your while. Thank you so much. Yeah. Speaker 1 (15:29) Okay, Speaker 3 (15:30) so you land down in Houston. And do you remember that being an overwhelming transition? Or did you take to it? Of course, I've read Lil' Lizzo and Sasha B. Fluton. Speaker 1 (15:40) Yeah. Speaker 3 (15:41) So. I know that version of the story, but what was your overall, did you feel fish out of water-y? Speaker 1 (15:46) Yes, I think that it was a culture shock because I was like, I don't want to see horses in the roads instead of cars. I was very dramatic. And I did see horses and was like, oh shit, like, hey. So that was big. But also my entire family is in Detroit, in my church. was my whole family. Like versus in Houston, there are mega churches where it's just a congregation of the people from the city. Also, by the way, the pastor is flying in on a helicopter, coming down, preaching, getting back in the helicopter, flying to his other mega church. Speaker 3 (16:17) So he can spread the word quicker. Speaker 1 (16:18) Exactly. But our church, the main room was the size of this. Speaker 3 (16:22) Was there music in that church? Speaker 1 (16:23) Yes. The choir are my cousins and aunties. The band are my cousins. The pastor is my uncle. It's all my family. It Speaker 3 (16:32) scares me. I say this all the time. I'm not religious. And in fact, religion scares me a bit. But I do fear it's declined because like, yeah, we just had Anderson .Paak on. He learned to play drums at the church. Speaker 1 (16:42) Yes. Speaker 3 (16:43) Where are all those kids in the decline of that? Like, where are they going to get the music education? Scares me a little bit. Speaker 1 (16:48) That's what I'm worried about, too. I don't even think there can be another Whitney Houston or anyone close to her because church. is so formative. You're born with the gift, of course, but in church, you kind of learn how to release your inhibitions. There's something about catching the spirit and there's something about a Holy Ghost and there's something about church music that allows you to express yourself in an uninhibited way. And that's what Whitney brought to secular stages. She brought the church to... The club. You're also Speaker 3 (17:22) already in community, which is already a heightened state. And then you add on music, which also is a heightened state. And it kind of can reach a level Speaker 2 (17:29) that Speaker 3 (17:30) otherwise it can't. And Speaker 2 (17:31) everyone's rooting for you in the church. Like no one's at church. There's no haters at church. That's bad. Because it's Speaker 1 (17:37) not like. I'm sorry, somebody calling me. Oh, you can answer it. No, it's my driveway. Speaker 3 (17:43) Can we peep this case real quick? Oh, yeah. Speaking Speaker 1 (17:46) of Sailor Moon. No, Speaker 3 (17:47) I didn't know why your purse was so big, and now I do. Speaker 1 (17:50) Because what other purse would that Speaker 3 (17:52) phone fit in? Speaker 1 (17:53) Wow. This is from Sailor Moon. It's her crescent wand. So she's like, move prison power, make up. And then the powers come out of it, and she turns into Sailor Moon. Yeah, but I also hate. Touching phones, it burns my fingertips. Sorry. A little side note about me. I'm sensitive. I'm Speaker 2 (18:11) a Speaker 1 (18:11) sensitive Speaker 3 (18:12) kid. Wait, we were Speaker 1 (18:13) talking about something. Church. Singing in church. People rooting for you. People rooting for you. Because it's not about that. It's about God. So we're singing for God. We're using our talents and our gifts for God. And I think that's the difference. Speaker 3 (18:26) There's a humility in it. Speaker 1 (18:27) Yes. Because when you think about... pop music and in the pop space, most singers are singing for the coin. They're singing for the check. They're singing for the glory. Approval. The clout. The approval. Because they have to. But when you see a person who was anointed and who is singing for a higher purpose, it just hits differently. I don't see it anymore. It's declining at a rapid rate. Speaker 3 (18:49) So in Houston, what church did you end up at? One of the Megas? We Speaker 1 (18:53) ended up at a Mega. Speaker 3 (18:54) Did the pastor ever have a scandal while you were there? Because what they also like to do with the private jets is they also like to get in a little trouble in the sheets, it seems, Speaker 1 (19:02) pretty Speaker 3 (19:02) often. Speaker 1 (19:02) You Speaker 3 (19:03) know, Speaker 1 (19:03) I went to a few churches. I'm not going to name names because we don't want, but I went to a few megas. But I will name one. I went to Lakewood for a while. I remember when Pastor Joel's father had passed away because he was the head of Lakewood. And I remember when he passed away, there was a huge billboard. It was like, we're going to miss you. And then Joel begrudgingly took over. Joel Olsen? Yes. He was like the young. cool PK. Oh my God. But I remember he took over and it just started going crazy. He bought the Speaker 3 (19:31) Charlotte Hornets Stadium, right? That's Joel Osteen. Speaker 1 (19:34) Well, he bought the arena that I... know about. Yeah, this Speaker 3 (19:36) dude owns arenas. Speaker 1 (19:37) Yeah. And then moved the church into that arena. And I was like, oh, they big ball. And now I was driving by him on Speaker 3 (19:42) the Speaker 1 (19:42) highway. I Speaker 3 (19:43) said, Speaker 1 (19:43) let me see what it's all about. And I checked it out. So I did a lot of church hopping, but my family, I think they were very turned off. Our first year there, we went to church and it was a mega church and it was New Year's Eve. Actually, I remember we went to church and, you know, we pray into the new year. There was a lot of issues. I feel like my family was very uncomfortable, but it's a weird story. There was a huge power outage at midnight and everything shut down. And my dad was like a very superstitious kind of person. And he had already been feeling weird. And when that happened, he was like, I don't want to do this anymore. Like that was a sign that we shouldn't be going to these churches. So my family stopped going to church when I was very young. All together. I'm the only one who continued to pursue church and congregation. And eventually with my best friend, I found a church and it was very small. And we would go together. And it was so small that like we would have to move locations. He would rent out buildings and sometimes they wouldn't make rent. So we would move to another building. But wherever we were, we would always come together. It would be the same congregation. We would sing and we would play. And it was very, very grassroots. And I loved it because I was hanging out with my best friends on the weekend. But I also loved it because it gave me a place to be sacred. I crave that. Yeah. I think it's important. Speaker 3 (20:58) And so how did you do with the other kids in school? You said they were country. Were you in a rural area? Speaker 1 (21:03) Maybe I was in the SWAT. I was in the Southwest Alief, Texas, which is southwest of Houston. So this is Houston and the H, as we like to say. And then there's the north side, south side, west side with Katy. And then there's east side, which we don't really go over there because that's basically Louisiana. And I was down here in the SWAT. Speaker 3 (21:22) So Speaker 1 (21:23) it's all the greater Houston area, but we was in a SWAT down here. Mind you, 30 years prior, it was all cows in that area. Speaker 3 (21:29) Okay. So there's still fields. Down Speaker 1 (21:31) Highway 6, there's just fields. Old plantations. Yeah. Prisons, which are plantations. Yes, exactly. Very Speaker 2 (21:41) much Speaker 1 (21:42) that. And so when we moved into our neighborhood, we were the second house. I remember when the neighborhood was being built and our house was being... kind of put up. It was all grass. And then it developed really quickly. And it became real country urban. The culture moved very quickly. My sister older than me, we went to the same high school. Elstic was very kind of artsy. By the time I got there, it was the trap. Wow. It took four years for it to be the trap. It was fun, though. I loved high school. Middle school is where it was rough. You was out here cracking and shit. That was my... Speaker 3 (22:19) Funny enough, Monica was born in 87. You were born in 88, 42788. And that is my peak year of my entire life. And I've had a charmed life. But seventh grade is the best year of my whole life. It went all downhill in high school. What Speaker 1 (22:32) happened in high school? Speaker 3 (22:33) Okay, so in eighth grade, I was 5'11", 160. In ninth grade, I was 6'3", 150. So I lost 10 pounds, grew four inches. This nose came in. But this all didn't come in. So it was just a huge nose, terrible hairdo. My brother had me get a perm, and it was long and bad with a perm up top, huge nose, acne, rake figure. It just was a bummer. Brand new school. Speaker 1 (22:59) What's wrong with being tall? Speaker 3 (23:00) It's okay if you're tall unless you're 150. And 6'3", that's not enough weight on that frame. You feel me? Yeah, I was real beanpole-y. Speaker 1 (23:09) Oh, so they were calling you beanpole and shit. Well, I Speaker 3 (23:11) fought, so they don't know what I'm talking about. You Speaker 1 (23:13) were fighting them? Speaker 3 (23:14) Yeah, I fought them. Speaker 1 (23:14) Yeah, man. Body shaming goes both ways. Of course. Nobody Speaker 3 (23:18) likes what they got, period. Speaker 1 (23:20) Yeah, but also, if somebody's mean enough, they'll find a way to make fun of you. Oh, of Speaker 3 (23:24) course. If you would have talked about my nose, I was devastated, right? Or my acne. Speaker 1 (23:28) Or I remember it was my shoes. They would be like, oh, slouchy shoes. Your shoes slouch. I'm like, why would you? Yeah. Speaker 3 (23:35) And Speaker 1 (23:35) also that means nothing. What does that mean? What's a slouchy shoe? I don't Speaker 3 (23:39) even know. Speaker 1 (23:40) I have wide feet. Oh. So my shoes would kind of slouch on the sides. And it's like back then, I, you don't even know, I used to bind my feet. I found out like Cambodian women would like bind their feet. In middle school, I was binding my feet with tape so that my shoes wouldn't slouch so my air forces would stay crispy on the side. Because if I had a little slouch on the edge of my air forces. Somebody would see it and it'd be the end of the world. So Speaker 3 (24:03) you Speaker 1 (24:03) were Speaker 3 (24:03) binding for width. Those gals were binding for length generally. Yeah. I think they're Speaker 2 (24:07) binding all around. They're trying to have the teeniest time. Oh, Speaker 3 (24:10) you've seen those x-rays. It's Speaker 2 (24:12) a Speaker 3 (24:12) hoof. Speaker 1 (24:13) All Speaker 2 (24:13) I did was fuck Speaker 1 (24:13) my feet. Oh, of course. I had whistled call. And grown toenails and shit. I don't have no arch. Actually, I'm realizing that's probably why heels hurt so bad now. I fucked my shit up. No, I think they hurt everybody. They do just hurt. Trying to not be slouchy, girl. But middle school was, I think, the worst. You know, in Detroit. Black people, we have what's called the Detroit proper. So if you talk to my cousins, it's like, well, how y Speaker 2 (24:39) 'all doing today? How's everybody Speaker 1 (24:41) doing? God bless you. Amen. Amen. Speaker 2 (24:43) But Speaker 1 (24:44) in Houston, everyone's very country. And if you don't talk very country and you talk proper. You talk white. So I was getting the white girl. I liked anime. I wasn't wearing my hair like the other girls. You got Speaker 3 (24:57) Cambodian feet. I Speaker 1 (24:58) had Cambodian bound feet. You're talking white Speaker 3 (25:01) Cambodian feet. Oh my goodness. My interests were just Speaker 1 (25:04) different. Japanese Speaker 3 (25:05) interests. Yes. And this was Speaker 1 (25:08) before liking anime was cool because now liking anime is just so standard. Speaker 3 (25:11) Yeah. Speaker 1 (25:11) Thank you, Pharrell. Speaker 3 (25:12) Pharrell Speaker 1 (25:13) made it cool. But like before that, it was like, why do you like that weird stuff? I didn't conform. I didn't share. my legs because my mom and my sister, they don't shave their legs. So I didn't learn how to shave my legs. And I still to this day don't really need to shave my legs. But the girls were like, your legs are hairy. Why don't you shave your legs? You're weird. And I'm like, why are y'all just finding anything to say about me? So most of my bullying was middle school. That was the brunt of it. But it was also the height of my delusion. So I didn't really notice because I was in a fantasy world. Yes, me too. Like I couldn't find my clothes after gym one day. And I was like. hmm, my clothes just disappeared. No, girl, they took your clothes and threw it on top of the locker so you wouldn't find it. So you'd be walking around in your gym clothes all day. Okay, Speaker 3 (25:53) so you were saved by your obliviousness sometimes. Speaker 1 (25:56) Oblivious, that's the word. Because I'm oblivious to this day. I can't pick up on certain signals. I'd be like, wow, how did that get past me? Speaker 3 (26:02) That can be a blessing. Yeah, Speaker 1 (26:04) it Speaker 3 (26:04) might be. It can save you a lot of pain. It might be learned. Speaker 2 (26:06) It might not be something you just are. Your brain might be protecting you. Yeah, Speaker 3 (26:10) you Speaker 2 (26:10) might also call it Speaker 3 (26:10) disassociation these days. Speaker 3 (26:15) Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking whether someone is actually waving at you before waving back. You saw the wave. You went big. And then they walked right past you to greet the person behind you. Yeah. Checking first is an excellent plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Speaker 1 (26:57) I would raise my hand in class and I raised my hand a lot to the point where like the teacher would ignore me. I was the only one raising my hand. And I remember at one point when I would raise my hand in class, they would go, damn. And everyone would start laughing. Speaker 2 (27:09) I was like, oh, they're Speaker 1 (27:11) laughing with me. Like I didn't think anyone was making fun of me. I kept raising my hand. So I did have a little bit of obliviousness with the teasing. But when I look back on it, I was like, oh, no, it was really coming for me. On the other end of the spectrum, there was the very obvious like. Somebody called me fat ass every day. You know, it's like, what's up, fat ass? I had teachers kind of make fun of me, too, because I had really sweaty hair, y'all. Well, Speaker 3 (27:32) Houston's a beat down with the humidity. And I Speaker 1 (27:34) would sometimes have to walk to school in humidity because I wasn't far. My brother and sister, my sister has very, very long, curly, mind you, this is a weave, but really long, curly Alicia Keys like hair, right? So she would always just wake up wet her hair and scrunch it in some mousse. My brother, very same. So he would just scrunch it with some mousse. I'm the last baby. So they would tell me to scrunch my hair with some mousse. It did not look like that. My hair's way more coarse, way more fine, way more kinky. I got like an actual afro. So I would wake up in the morning, wet my hair and scrunch it with some mousse and look a hot ass mess. Oh no. And I would put my hair in these little uncombed, wet ass ponytails. And I would go to school and be like, this is so embarrassing. And I'm putting myself all the way out there. It was not matted. Okay. But it would mildew. Okay, Speaker 3 (28:23) sure. Speaker 1 (28:24) Because I would sweat in my hair. And it was humid at school. And my hair was wet all day in the bun. Speaker 3 (28:30) Oh, no, it was in a bun. Was it so itchy? It Speaker 1 (28:33) wasn't itchy, but it was just a wet ass, mildewy ass bun. It Speaker 3 (28:38) was a wab. Wet ass bun. Speaker 1 (28:39) Yeah, bro, you got that. From the top, make it drop. But I had Speaker 3 (28:47) to like learn Speaker 1 (28:48) real quick in middle school, like my hair is not like my brother and sisters. My hair is not like my mother and father. My mom had really long hair. touching her butt. My dad had a ponytail, Rico Suave. Oh, he did. I'm the only one with an afro. So I'm like, I have to learn how to jazz it up. And I did. I got my first weave the last day of eighth grade. And I remember I was walking through and it was the last day of middle school because we were going all to high school. And they were like, Melissa, Melissa. Like everybody was gagged. I remember I had this little chocolate brown weave that I glued in myself and my mom helped me glue it and then flipped out the ends like this. I had the little Farrah Fawcett and I was like, yes. And it was very same. Mandy in Greece, like, Speaker 2 (29:25) what's up? And they Speaker 1 (29:27) were like, wow, she's actually pretty. Wow, she actually looks nice when she does her hair. And so I took that energy and went from Melissa to Lizzo. And so it was a big Speaker 3 (29:37) reset for high school. Yes. You were shaving your legs. You had your hair, right? Yes. Shaving my Speaker 1 (29:41) legs for no reason, by the way. Just to fit in. There's no hair. Just to fit in. And we Speaker 3 (29:45) stopped binding our feet in high school? We stopped binding our feet. We started Speaker 1 (29:48) getting. Wider shoes. I think I switched from Air Forces to, what's the one, the strap? The Reebok Adidas? No, no, no. What's the one that Filos? Oh, Speaker 3 (29:58) Filos. I Speaker 2 (29:58) remember Speaker 3 (29:58) Filos. Oh, yeah. Speaker 1 (29:59) Because I had a little rounder situation. I was like, I'm in the Filos. Like, y'all don't know about this. Y'all don't Speaker 3 (30:05) know Speaker 1 (30:05) nothing about this. I wore Uggs. You Speaker 3 (30:07) were bringing it back to Run DMC. Speaker 1 (30:08) Exactly. That's what Speaker 3 (30:09) they wore. Is that Speaker 1 (30:11) what they were? Yeah. Speaker 3 (30:11) I Speaker 1 (30:11) thought it was my Adidas. Speaker 3 (30:13) They did have my. Speaker 1 (30:13) Yeah, see, you're wrong. Look at you. Speaker 3 (30:16) No, Speaker 2 (30:16) hold Speaker 3 (30:16) on. Speaker 2 (30:16) Uh Speaker 3 (30:17) -oh. Sorry, no. They switched to Fila's. Anyways, in the fact check. We'll do that for the fact check. Yeah, Speaker 1 (30:22) we'll do it for Speaker 3 (30:22) the fact check. Okay, so you start playing the flute at 10 years old. Speaker 1 (30:26) Yeah, fifth grade. Speaker 3 (30:27) Fifth grade. And you play all the way through to. College. You go to college. But even before that, at 14, you formed the Cornrow Click. Cornrow Speaker 1 (30:35) Click. How Speaker 3 (30:36) many of you? Three? There Speaker 1 (30:37) was four of us. Speaker 3 (30:38) Okay. And you were rapping. I Speaker 1 (30:41) was rapping. So Speaker 3 (30:41) flute and rap happening simultaneously. Speaker 1 (30:44) Flute first, rap second. And Speaker 3 (30:46) then you went to University of Houston. Go Cougs. Speaker 1 (30:49) To major Speaker 3 (30:50) in? Speaker 1 (30:51) Music, performance, and flute. Speaker 3 (30:53) Okay. And you did, what, three years there? I Speaker 1 (30:56) did about one and a half years before I chickened out. Speaker 3 (30:59) It didn't correlate with your father dying. Speaker 1 (31:02) Um, hmm. Yes, they were very close together, though. Yeah, no, it was the same time. Okay. Same time. Speaker 3 (31:09) Yeah. Speaker 1 (31:09) That would explain it for me. But it was like I dropped out and then he passed around the same time. It was like a year before he passed. I dropped out. Speaker 3 (31:18) And what, can I ask why he died? That's a great question. I don't know. How old was he? I Speaker 1 (31:22) think he was like 53. Yeah, way too young. He was a baby. Like when I think about it now, I'm like, oh my God. Speaker 3 (31:27) Oh yeah, that's in five seconds. Speaker 1 (31:29) He had had strokes. Speaker 3 (31:31) Hypertension. Yeah, Speaker 1 (31:32) he had hypertension. He had congestive heart failure. But like was always trying to like manage that. And honestly, he was like doing better. And I was actually shocked. So Speaker 3 (31:41) it was quite sudden. You didn't have any sense that was coming. Speaker 1 (31:44) And Speaker 3 (31:45) were you guys close? Speaker 1 (31:46) I would consider myself a daddy's girl. You dedicated the book to him. I did. He told me that I was going to be a great flute player before I even. thought I would be a great, but he was like super into the flute. And mind you, this is somebody who was very strict on his kids because he wanted us all to be very successful. My brother, he was like, you have to do football. My brother's like six, five, like in high school. And he was like, no, you're going to play football. And my sister, he's like, you're going to do this. And they kind of rebelled. My sister and my brother wanted to do more arts. My brother, he can draw. He's like super talented. And my sister is extremely talented in music and arts. And they wanted to do that. And I. wanted to do this flute thing, which is music and arts. And I was like, sure, he wasn't going to fuck with it. But he was like, no, this is great. Do this, do this, do this. And Speaker 3 (32:32) am I wrong real quick? I can name like seven great jazz saxophone players. I can probably name like eight great trumpet players, even clarinet. I can't think of a real famous flutist, right? And Speaker 1 (32:45) you know, Black people, we don't say Chris Martin, we say Coldplay. So he would always say, you got to be like Jethro Tull. Speaker 3 (32:51) But I didn't Speaker 1 (32:51) realize, I thought his name was... Jeff Rotol. It's just Speaker 3 (32:54) a band. Yeah, that's common though. His Speaker 1 (32:55) name is Ian Anderson. Speaker 3 (32:56) But Speaker 1 (32:57) my dad would always be like, you're going to be like Jeff Rotol. So yeah, I think that was a big part of it because A, there was a huge gap. for what I provided. Speaker 3 (33:06) Oh, I just realized why you're saying Jethro Tull. A heavy flute in Jethro Tull. Speaker 1 (33:10) Yeah, the Ian Anderson. He's the flute player. Yeah. And my dad would be like, you're going to be like Jethro Tull. I thought that was a black man because Jethro is a black ass man. Yeah, Speaker 3 (33:19) especially down in Houston. So I said, Speaker 1 (33:21) oh, Jethro. I'm going to be like Jethro and them. So I will always say that I just got a book of Ian Anderson flute solos. And I'm like, oh, that's his name. It's crazy. Speaker 2 (33:29) But Speaker 1 (33:30) that was our only kind of contemporary flute. Person that we knew of because everything else, there was the classical side that I was super into, like Sir James Galway is my hero. So there was that side. But you think about Yo-Yo Ma, besides Sir James, where is the Yo-Yo Ma of flute now? Where you're going on late night shows and shit. Speaker 3 (33:51) Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of a super famous flutist. Is it flautist? Flutist? Yo, Speaker 1 (33:56) my whole life, I grew up, it was flautist. Yeah. Literally. Recently, I'm telling you, right after college, it was like, it's actually flutist. I think that's a Mandela effect. I think it's switched from flautist to flutist. Because I remember us being like, no, no, no, it's flautist. Correcting people. And now it's flutist. Speaker 3 (34:16) Okay. Tomato, tomato, flautist, flutist. Speaker 2 (34:18) Hello. Flautist sounds better. It sounds more fancy. I'm Speaker 1 (34:22) going Speaker 2 (34:22) to say I'm a flautist. Like Speaker 3 (34:23) flaunting, too. It like shares some DNA with flaunting. Speaker 2 (34:26) There's a little magic. But if I'm around, if I was in a group of flute players, I would say flutist because I would be afraid to be looked down upon. Speaker 3 (34:33) Sure. Speaker 2 (34:33) Okay. Well, they need to look up to you. Speaker 3 (34:35) But yes, but then talking to the lay person, you might say flautist. Yeah, Speaker 2 (34:38) a muggle. A muggle, yeah. A muggle like us. A non-music Speaker 1 (34:42) reading individual, yeah. Speaker 3 (34:44) Well, that Harry Potter punched through everything, didn't it? God, it got me. It got everyone, didn't it? Speaker 1 (34:48) It's universal. What happened? Oh, just my reference? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think if you're y Speaker 3 (34:53) 'all's age, you love Harry Potter. It had no borders. Someone Speaker 1 (34:57) asked me recently, why do you like Harry Potter so much? But it was such a young person asking a millennial. And I was like, oh my God, this is like a moniker of... What our generation. What Speaker 3 (35:07) was your answer? Because it's to me quite obvious. Oh, he Speaker 1 (35:10) did ask me because we went to the Harry Potter Universal Studios. We were eating the Harry Potter food. And I was like, well, because I read the books. And I was like, and I was present when the movies were coming out. And it was like a really big deal. And he was like. So when did the books come out? And he was looking up the year and I was like, don't look up the year because Speaker 2 (35:27) he Speaker 3 (35:27) wasn't even born yet. He Speaker 1 (35:29) was like 1997. I was like, don't look at that. Or Speaker 3 (35:32) as Speaker 1 (35:32) my kids Speaker 3 (35:33) say, the 1900s. Speaker 1 (35:34) No, literally. I was like, no, it was like 2005. Like that's when the last book. I was in line