Guillermo del Toro

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Guillermo del Toro joins Dax Shepard to reflect on his formative years, including his father winning the lottery twice yet enforcing strict work ethics, and a childhood

Key takeaways

• Del Toro's father won $6 million in 1969 but taught his kids they had to earn everything, reinforcing discipline over sudden wealth.
• During his father's 72-day kidnapping, a Secret Service-trained negotiator advised Del Toro to write daily, leading him to draft *The Devil's Backbone* and *Monte Cristo*.

Main topics

• Childhood discipline & lottery winnings
• Father's kidnapping & writing under duress

Notable quotes

"Anytime you skip the process, you are not cheating on someone, you're cheating on yourself. You really are robbing yourself of it."

Conclusion

Del Toro's reflections underscore that lasting fulfillment comes from human connection and embracing

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert. I'm Dan Shepard, and I'm joined by Monica Padman. Speaker 1 (0:04) Hello. Speaker 2 (0:06) This is, guys, this is really up there. Monica, she declared favorite of all time. Speaker 1 (0:10) I believe it to be favorite episode of all time. Speaker 2 (0:13) Yeah, and he's in, you know, definitely a three-way tie for me. I mean, this is the most incredible human. We've got to sit with. It's Speaker 1 (0:21) crazy. Speaker 2 (0:22) Guillermo del Toro. Guillermo del Toro is an award winning filmmaker. That's an understatement. He's won a bazillion Academy Awards and every other kind of award. Frankenstein movie the year last year. Shape of Water. Pan's Labyrinth. We are here to talk about Pan's Labyrinth. And this is so awesome. He has completely redone the whole movie with all these different technologies that now exist. And we will all be able to see it now in 3D among many different formats. Speaker 1 (0:51) Incredible. Speaker 2 (0:52) Cannot wait to see it in 3D. This is among the most special human beings on planet Earth. Please enjoy Guillermo del Toro. Speaker 1 (0:59) He's Speaker 3 (1:00) an Speaker 1 (1:00) armchair expert Speaker 2 (1:16) Hi, Sarah. Hi. Welcome. Nice to meet you. Welcome. Speaker 1 (1:20) You're right there. Speaker 2 (1:21) Thank you. Can I offer you a water? Liquid death. Let's go. I just took the last Topo Speaker 3 (1:27) Chico. Speaker 2 (1:27) Right on brand. It is. I just took the last Topo Chico, which you know there's Speaker 3 (1:32) a Speaker 2 (1:32) shortage. I Speaker 3 (1:33) am painfully aware. You are? Speaker 1 (1:35) Do you love Topo Chico? Speaker 3 (1:37) No, but it's news in the Mexican. Oh, right. Speaker 1 (1:39) Yeah, that's true. Well, it's good to just increase the value. Now that's worth a lot of money. Speaker 3 (1:48) He's wasting a lot of money there. Speaker 1 (1:50) Could sell it on eBay. Speaker 3 (1:51) I'm always curious about what books are those. Well, Speaker 1 (1:54) some of them are past guest books, but some of them are just decorative. Some Speaker 3 (1:59) of them are by foot or by color. Speaker 1 (2:02) Yeah, exactly. Linear foot. Speaker 3 (2:03) Yeah, well, like you said, decoration, right? Yeah, Speaker 1 (2:06) exactly. Speaker 2 (2:07) I'm Speaker 1 (2:07) going Speaker 2 (2:07) to start by saying I've been wanting to meet you for 20 years because I worked with... Perhaps one of my favorite people I've ever worked with was Guillermo Navarro. Yes, Speaker 3 (2:18) of course. Speaker 2 (2:18) Are you guys still friendly? Of Speaker 3 (2:20) course. Speaker 2 (2:20) What a great Speaker 3 (2:21) guy. Oh, what a beautiful man. Beautiful man, beautiful everything. I mean, he's so full of talent and fire and he doesn't put up with anything. Speaker 2 (2:29) Sure. Is he an actor? Speaker 1 (2:31) He's Speaker 2 (2:31) a DP. Speaker 1 (2:32) Oh, a DP. Was he the DP Speaker 2 (2:33) on Devil's Backbone? Speaker 3 (2:35) And Pants Labyrinth, he won the Oscar for Pants. Wow. He was the first Mexican cinematographer to win in the history of... Oh, really? Yeah, for a filmographer, yeah. Speaker 2 (2:43) There has to have been some sense, right? Speaker 3 (2:45) Checo was originally a city cam operator, and then he became a DP. But Rodrigo Prieto, Chibo. Chibo, Speaker 2 (2:53) that's Speaker 3 (2:53) who Speaker 2 (2:53) I'm thinking of. Speaker 3 (2:53) Yeah, Speaker 2 (2:53) Chibo, yeah. Yes. No, Speaker 3 (2:55) he's a great guy. Speaker 2 (2:56) What's your theory on this huge explosion of talent that came out of Mexico? I remember when I was working with Guillermo Navarro, he was telling me like, oh, he's from Guadalajara, right? Speaker 3 (3:05) No, he's from Mexico. I'm from Guadalajara. Speaker 2 (3:07) Oh. Speaker 3 (3:08) Now we look alike. The other Speaker 2 (3:10) day I was, I saw Speaker 3 (3:11) a Speaker 2 (3:12) photograph Speaker 3 (3:12) and I said, boy, Navarro looks really haggard. I realized it was me. Speaker 2 (3:16) People might accidentally, same name, same look. People might accidentally hire him to direct something thinking they've hired you. Or me to do the cinematography. Who do you think would do better at each other's job? Speaker 3 (3:32) Two things I forgot everything about cinematography, which I used to do on my super eights and even on other 16 and all that. And algebra. Algebra, I was a whiz kid for a year. Speaker 2 (3:43) Yes. And Speaker 3 (3:43) now I don't know even what it means. Speaker 2 (3:45) You have two daughters? Yeah. Did you have to help them with math and go, wait, hold on. I'm supposed to be good at this. No, Speaker 3 (3:51) because I think each generation does less and less of those operational things. Yeah. You know, like math. When I was a kid. It was a huge breakthrough when they allowed your calculator in the classroom. Speaker 2 (4:03) Oh, sure. For like trigonometry or something? They said, Speaker 3 (4:05) oh, that's cheating. I remember I had a Texas instrument. Sure. Speaker 2 (4:09) It's big boy too, right? Yeah. The bigger, Speaker 3 (4:12) the better. It was a huge debate. There was no internet or it would have been a huge point. Speaker 2 (4:18) Well, my kids are in sixth and eighth grade. And so now, of course, the big debate is when and where can they use AI? It'd be kind of insane to think they shouldn't become adept at using it because it'll be a tool they will use. But it's like, yeah, when and where? Speaker 3 (4:32) Well, I think the debate for me is not what happens to the technology, but what happens to the human brain. Speaker 1 (4:39) While Speaker 3 (4:39) using Speaker 2 (4:40) it, right? Speaker 3 (4:40) Well, for example, I'll give you one thing we all live, GPS. You live in LA for 20, 30 years, whatever. And if you start relying on GPS to go home, you should stop. That's me. Speaker 1 (4:52) I can't get anywhere. I can't get to his house and I live right down there without it. I need it. The Speaker 3 (4:58) other day when in the opening of the Lucas Museum. George very pointedly said, I want the name of the work, the medium of the work, the author and the year. That's it. It's because now we walk with context on our pocket. You want to know more? I don't have to tell you if it's a good piece of art or a bad piece of art. You judge it and you want context. Pull out your phone. I mean, that's good for me. Can we foster thought, not results, thought? Speaker 2 (5:25) Yes, I think we underestimate the joy. there was to be had when you were trying to figure something out? Speaker 3 (5:31) Well, you know, like I brought my notes for Pan's Labyrinth. You did? Because I think the process is what's worth it, not the result. If we understand that, we understand that the shortcut is not giving you something, it's robbing you Speaker 2 (5:48) of something. Speaker 3 (5:49) I'm talking purely as what makes us human. Anytime you skip the process, you are not. cheating on someone, you're cheating on yourself. You really are robbing yourself of it. Speaker 2 (5:59) You know, the difference between winning the lottery and having created a widget. My dad won the Speaker 3 (6:03) lottery. I know. I'm planting that seed. Six million dollars. In 1969. Speaker 2 (6:09) Hold on, we'll earmark that. I do want to tell you, I did reach out to Josh Brolin. to ask him about you. And do you know what he told me? He said his favorite thing about you is having gotten to look at your journals. That's one of those. Yeah, so I feel very excited because he was just telling me how spectacular they are. Speaker 1 (6:25) This is a relic. Speaker 2 (6:27) That's a reward page in case I lose Speaker 1 (6:29) it. Speaker 3 (6:30) Oh Speaker 1 (6:31) my God. Wait, you drew this? Speaker 3 (6:34) Yeah, that's... Speaker 2 (6:37) How much time is in these two pages? Well, not Speaker 3 (6:40) much, maybe three, four hours, but they can happen three weeks or four months apart. Oh. I only write when there's something worth to consigning. And after The Hobbit, I stopped carrying them because I couldn't lose notes on The Hobbit. Speaker 2 (6:55) Oh, my gosh. I'm holding this up. I Speaker 1 (6:56) feel, yeah. He's Speaker 2 (6:57) suspecting. Guillermo, I'm embarrassed to tell you how much I would pay to own this thing. I was about to say, Speaker 1 (7:02) I feel like we shouldn't be holding it. I know. We're not worthy of this. I thought Speaker 2 (7:06) it would be nice to bring it. Oh, it's beautiful. Oh my gosh, Monica. I want you to feel the pages too. Speaker 1 (7:13) Oh my goodness. Did you draw this? Speaker 2 (7:15) Yes, of course. Years before pirates, I must say. Speaker 1 (7:19) I cannot believe this. Oh Speaker 2 (7:21) my Lord. That was a note for Mountains of Madness. This was going to be a question at the very end, but I need to ask it now. Are you friendly at all with Tim Burton? Speaker 3 (7:30) No, we've never met. You've never met. We've never met. I mean, I know his influences. He comes from Edward Gorey, Charles Speaker 2 (7:37) Adams. I mean, I can trace his roots. I can't believe you've never met him. Speaker 3 (7:42) No, actually, I think that is very risky to meet someone that you have X in common. I've had that, like people that you have 90 % in common and 70 % in common. Where you disagree, you're going to hate each other. Speaker 2 (7:55) Sure, sure, sure. Where Speaker 3 (7:56) you disagree, you're going to go, no, there's no conciliation. We Speaker 2 (7:58) had an expert on the other day. You would know this because you love fantasy. But did you know C.S. Lewis and Tolkien hated each other? Yeah, well. For a period at Cambridge. They disliked each other. They were too close. One was an atheist. One was a Christian. Speaker 3 (8:12) And a Christian that took great pains to Speaker 2 (8:14) get there. I may add, I mean. Bent over backwards. Yeah, he had Speaker 3 (8:18) to. Speaker 2 (8:19) Convince himself. Yeah. Contorted himself. Yeah. Speaker 3 (8:22) So, you know, it's like when you took years to convince yourself of something. Yeah. Speaker 2 (8:27) You Speaker 3 (8:27) don't give it up that easily. Speaker 2 (8:28) Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's now part of your identity and it feels threatening to your identity. Your world will Speaker 3 (8:33) explode. Speaker 2 (8:33) Yeah. But to find out that they also hated and loved opposite poets. And then I think it was C.S. Lewis hosted a Norse mythology reading session. Oh, my God. Yes. And then Tolkien attended. And then they fell in love. And they both encouraged each other to pursue fantasy. I was going Speaker 3 (8:53) to say, later they did coalesce. And look, the high bound nature of academia is brutal. It's catty. Yeah, yeah, right. Here are actors, comedians, magicians, and scholars, all very catty. Speaker 1 (9:09) Like Speaker 3 (9:10) I'm friends with a lot of magicians. There's not a single magician that has ever. spoken highly of another magician. Oh, that's so true. Or Speaker 2 (9:18) comedians. Well, if they die, they can. They can like Houdini. Speaker 3 (9:21) Oh, yeah. Speaker 2 (9:22) Not a threat. They don't have a show opening. They don't have to share any attention with them. Yeah, but academia is very catty. But, you know, I'll say an exception to that, which is stand-ups, you're right. Stand-up comedians are brutal. I did stand-up for a while. But sketch comedians, that's where I'm from. That's different. We do love each other. Because a lot of it is writing. It's writing, it's relying on one another, it's eating shit together, it's succeeding together. Speaker 3 (9:45) You can Speaker 2 (9:45) be in a Speaker 3 (9:45) writer's room together. It starts communal. It is. And I think that you find in academia, for example, I love reading Nabokov's writing. I disagree with 90 % of his opinions about other writers. You don't have to agree with that because it's what you did with what you were given as a legacy. Like Burton, I can see the gory. the Edward Gorey in him or the Charles Adams in him. Right. But what he did with that or the Dr. Seuss or the way he transmogrifies that. Speaker 2 (10:16) Yes. It's Speaker 3 (10:16) interesting, but it would be very different than the way you metabolize and it becomes part of your being. I Speaker 2 (10:22) just know this. This particular part of your workflow is also very similar to his, right? He's just endlessly drawing and writing, even while engaging with people. It Speaker 3 (10:33) became less so for me. The most copious notes I took is before I could make movies. The more you have a team, the more you say, well, Guy Davis draws a hundred times better than I do, or Francisco Ruiz, or you learn to rely on the people that you work with. Right. Speaker 1 (10:48) Every movie has a... book like this? It Speaker 3 (10:50) started with whole books for each movie and then it went into 50 pages for each movie and then three pages for each movie. Because the more you have a team. Speaker 1 (10:58) Right. I mean, Speaker 3 (10:59) like I do a thing called The Submarine, which is six to nine months before the movie starts. I hired three or four, almost always the same designers and we go deep. Before we hire production design, before we hire costume design, we dive deep into the shapes, the colors, the this and that. And then... I Speaker 2 (11:18) draw a list. Really quick, what is the end product of that session? Is it storyboard? Speaker 3 (11:22) Yeah, no, it's mostly the main concepts, the main tenets of the movie, like shapes, for example. The rules. The rules. And then you hire people, and if they want to break them, you say, why? Because I thought about it. Not that you don't foster dissent, you do, but you say, you got to really convince me. Speaker 2 (11:41) Yeah, because we thought this through. Speaker 3 (11:42) I think that, like, when I go to a set and I see something is not... done properly, I say, you thought I wouldn't notice? Yeah. Like when I was 30, no less, when I was 28 or 27, Jim Cameron, we became friends instantly. I don't know why. He said, why don't you come over? We're editing True Lies. And I need to take out 25 minutes. Speaker 2 (12:05) Was the inroad to this relationship, were you doing the special effects stuff? You had worked in some capacity for him, no? Speaker 3 (12:11) No, no, no. Ron Perlman, who was in Kronos, had done a TV series called Beauty and the Beast with Linda Hamilton. So he said, why don't you come to the barbecue on the 4th of July? I went and Jim was there. Speaker 2 (12:23) Yes. And Speaker 3 (12:24) Jim sat down and he said, so I hear you made a really expensive Mexican movie. I said, well, yeah, I mortgaged my house. He said, you know, you may lose it. He says, we only hear the stories of the people that donate a kidney and succeed, but there are a lot of people that donate a kidney and the Speaker 2 (12:40) movie doesn't open. I go, that's absolutely true. Speaker 3 (12:44) He says, will you show it to me? I said, sure. And he arrived to the screening at the Chaplin Theater on Raleigh Studios. And he said, if I get a phone call, I may need to leave. I said, sure, I understand. And then he saw the whole movie and he said, the phone call was bullshit. That was Speaker 2 (13:00) a get out of home. If the movie Speaker 3 (13:01) wasn't bad, I would send this out. Oh my Speaker 1 (13:03) God, like it's a bad date or something. Yeah, like he Speaker 3 (13:06) said, I can stay for 20 minutes from the beginning. And then we stayed for four hours. Wow. And we liked each other very much. He came from special effects. I could do all special effects. I knew rotoscope, tracking. So we started geeking out. Speaker 2 (13:19) Yes. Okay, I was going to say, I had the... rare experience to go on a motorcycle ride. I didn't know who was going to be at breakfast and I get there with Arnold. And then he's there. What year? 2004. Oh, yes. And who's the great puppeteer? Oh, Stan Speaker 3 (13:36) Winston? Stan Winston is there. Speaker 2 (13:37) He was a writer. Incredible. And so he naturally has zero interest in the 30-year-old that's there. But he starts talking about the 3D technology he's inventing. And I happen to say, oh, so it's like bilateral stereoscopic vision. And he then goes, Speaker 1 (13:56) he's like, he Speaker 3 (13:57) comes in and he Speaker 2 (13:58) goes, why do you know about bilateral stereoscopic vision? And I go, oh, I was an anthropology major. And then I got all of his attention among all these people. He's not just pretty. Speaker 3 (14:09) So I Speaker 2 (14:10) imagine for you, that was the same thing. I think if he figures out somebody knows about his neat kinks. He's just very drawn to you, I'd imagine. He Speaker 3 (14:18) said to me one day, there are X number of filmmakers. Then there are X number of writer-directors. That's less. There are even less producer-writer-directors. And he said, then there are even less designer-producer-writer-directors, I said, and then world builders. He says, you can count with one hand. And when you encounter somebody, you can talk about the whole thing, how much it's going to cost. Why is it going to cost? How do we make it better, bigger and cheaper? And our global view, he said, you immediately are interested because it's a very nurturing and rare. I think because we have that commonality on effects, because I can sculpt a puppet, I can mechanize a puppet, I can mold a puppet. So I know molding, chemistry, you know, all these things. He liked it. I know. Speaker 1 (15:07) I'm like, how do you know all this stuff? So let's Speaker 2 (15:10) go in order a little bit. And you already started it. First of all, you're from Guadalajara. Yes. And mom and dad are Spanish. And I'm curious first. Mexican, yeah. When did the family come from Spain? Like what generation are you? I Speaker 3 (15:22) have zero interest in my genealogy. I know my grandfather was half Irish. It was Guillermo. Gomez O'Culligan. Speaker 2 (15:31) It's like out of Darby O'Gillis. That'd be a bad restaurant. Speaker 1 (15:35) O Speaker 2 (15:36) 'Culligans. Speaker 1 (15:37) E. coli. E. coligans. I Speaker 3 (15:40) know the kinship with the Irish because when I went to Ireland, I said, why do I feel straight at home? Speaker 2 (15:46) Immediately. Speaker 3 (15:46) But the side of my father split into Puerto Rico and Mexico. That much I know. Now, my father had a very precarious upbringing. They didn't have money. His father was a gambler, which my dad was a gambler. But he sort of controlled himself, sort of. So how does he win Speaker 2 (16:03) this lottery? Speaker 3 (16:04) He married my mom. We were living in a little middle class home. He always bought from the same. He won two times. No. Yeah, he won the six million. And then he won a quarter of a million a few years later. Oh, my goodness. He didn't stop playing. The same vendor. Really? Yes. Oh, my gosh. So one day we're living there and one day we move into a house that was just out of The Shining. I would run my bicycle like that in The Shining. But he always raised us. I remember the immortal lines he said to my brother. He says, why do I have to do this if we have money? And my dad said, I have money. You don't. Speaker 2 (16:39) And Speaker 3 (16:40) he would say, you want that microphone for your camera? You're going to go to the. dealership and wash all the cars. Then you go to the spare parts warehouse and you have to clean all the boxes. And then I'll buy you your microphone for your Super 8 camera. Well, Speaker 2 (16:54) so that was my other curiosity about your father, because I'm from Detroit and my whole family was automotive industry. I, too, worked for GM for years. It says he was an automotive entrepreneur. What does that mean? Speaker 3 (17:03) First, he dealt with Packard's. Then he dealt with Chrysler and then Nissan and Chrysler. Did he have a dealership? Many dealerships. Many dealerships in the 60s and 70s and all that. He was really the worst boss I've ever had. I worked with him five years and I said, dad, I'm quitting because I don't want to stop loving you. I never did anything right. I had always had to chase him for every penny. Speaker 2 (17:25) So it sounds like he took the money he won and he was successful at growing that through his business. Oh yeah, Speaker 3 (17:30) no, no. He was very smart. He was very funny. Speaker 2 (17:32) He Speaker 3 (17:33) was very personal. He was a little remote at home. Speaker 2 (17:37) This is my father too. So I only saw him every other weekend, but he was a car salesman. And when I moved through the world with him, it's like he knew everyone at the hardware store and then he knew all the waiters and waitresses. And it was like, Speaker 3 (17:46) I just wasn't kind of enamored with it. Also, my dad was a motorcycle racing champion. No. And he used to ride motorcycles. Instead of a bicycle, he would buy us a mini bike. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was on a bike at age six or seven. I was riding my bike on the street. You had the childhood I wanted. I still. Of course. You have to break some stuff. Oh, Speaker 2 (18:04) God, Speaker 3 (18:04) yeah. Keep it connected. I have a bunch of scars from motocross. Of course. Parenting in the 60s would be actionable now. Of course. He would take me on his BMW bike. And he would go for ice cream. I was in the back. No helmets, of course. He said, you want an iron horse? I go, sure. And he would do an iron horse with me in the back. Seven. Speaker 2 (18:29) Yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (18:30) Wait, so how old were you when he won the lottery? 69. So I was five. And do you remember, like, the day your dad comes home and is like, guess what? Speaker 3 (18:39) Yeah, the night before we went to the church party. So I remember that I won. a fire truck, a Speaker 1 (18:45) plastic fire Speaker 3 (18:46) truck. And people said... You're a lucky family. Everybody said, well, congratulations on the raffle. I said, yeah, we got a red truck. Yeah. I thought that was the... The town was celebrating you. I thought everybody loves my red truck. Everybody wants my red truck. No, but my dad gave me the discipline. He said, you have to work for everything you need. And he said, it's for your own good. We... inherited each other's clothes. How many siblings? One brother older than me who passed away, a younger brother and a younger sister. Okay. So Speaker 2 (19:18) you're a middle, you're the middle boy. I'm the Speaker 3 (19:20) second, which is a hard position. And Speaker 2 (19:21) do you fit the Speaker 3 (19:21) stereotype Speaker 2 (19:22) as a middle child? Speaker 3 (19:23) Yes. You have to become the negotiator, the peacekeeper, the sane one, supposedly. Speaker 2 (19:29) And then also, would you agree, as the middle child, you can really disappear a lot? Because in my case, there was like a teenager who was crazy and then there was a baby on the scene. So it was like between the energy they took up, I could be in my room for days and no one would have wondered. I tell you the parenting thing. I could disappear for a week and they would not ask Speaker 3 (19:50) where I was. Speaker 2 (19:50) Not even curious. If Speaker 3 (19:52) I had enough gas on the tank, I would go to San Antonio, to Texas to buy super eight equipment. I would come back four days later. No one was there. No one asked anything. Wow. All I knew there was cold meat and cold beans on the fridge. Who made them? I Speaker 2 (20:10) had no idea. You also described that, you know, when you're like a seven-year-old boy, most kids are outside playing football and you're like reading voraciously. Oh my God, yes. And then you're also a hypochondriac. Speaker 3 (20:23) A complete hypochondriac. Yeah. Where do we think that started? Started when my dad won the lottery. He bought a library because somebody told him you have to have a library because you're a gentleman now. So he got a huge desk. That Speaker 2 (20:36) sounds like they could have told him anything. Speaker 1 (20:38) Oh, a library in the house. In the house. Okay, okay, okay. He Speaker 3 (20:40) bought three encyclopedias. He bought an encyclopedia of art, which I read complete when I was very young. He bought an encyclopedia for youth. And one of them was the encyclopedia of health. Oh, okay. And I memorized it. I thought, oh, I have tricky nose. I have. High blood Speaker 2 (20:57) pressure. You thought you had pancreatic cancer Speaker 3 (20:59) at one point. Speaker 2 (20:59) At Speaker 3 (21:00) one point. I can talk to you. That is in my movies. All the biology, all this and that. That has been with me since I was a kid. And did you shake it at some point? Yeah, yeah. My dad was a hypochondriac. His hobby was to be sick. Actually, I became fully fluent. English is my second language. But at age seven or eight, he would make me travel with him to translate to doctors in Houston. Oh, really? I have glaucoma. Tell him that these are my symptoms. And I would speak to the doctor in English. And he said, what did he say? Do Speaker 2 (21:30) you think because of the Catholic guilt, there was some sense that, well, with this great fortune we were given, there must be some price to pay and it'll be my health. I Speaker 3 (21:38) don't know how complex my dad was. But did you have any sense like that? Like something Speaker 2 (21:42) bad will happen to us because this is suspiciously good. I Speaker 3 (21:45) have. I have. Speaker 2 (21:46) Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 3 (21:48) My parents won the money. One of the first things they tried to travel a lot to Europe, to this and that. And we would be left behind. And I stayed with who I called my grandmother. She was like Piper, Laurie, and Carrie. She would instill in me the sense of doom. Speaker 2 (22:04) Every Speaker 3 (22:05) day at the end of the day, I would call her and she would say, if I wake up tomorrow, I will see you. And if I die tonight, I want you to know that I loved you. Oh my God. Every day. Okay. So I would sleep rigid in the bed. feeling, I'm sure she's dead. And when I slept in her house, I would sleep in a little cot at the foot of her bed. And I would spend the night hearing, and if she stopped, I would go, she's dead. Now, that for a decade, at least. And then I was an altar boy. I was the spokesperson for the Virgin Mary. I was raised very, very Catholic. And this is the time when I was reading. multiple books a day. I taught myself to do ultra-fast reading, and to this day, I can read a page about a second, two seconds, I get a page. Oh my gosh. Speaker 2 (22:57) Okay, I know this about you. You're going to Mass at 8 in the morning, but you're coming home and you see Boris Karloff in Frankenstein, and the juxtaposition, yet also the parallel. Speaker 3 (23:08) Yeah, it's the same. To me, this is completely true. My spiritual life is forged by movies, fairy tales, and religion. They become the same. Pan's Labyrinth, Hands of the Shape of Water, Frankenstein. To me, they are parables or fairy tales. You know, they became effortlessly won. So my grandmother and I never agreed, but she would buy me the comic books on Tuesdays. On Tuesday, you went to the comic book stand in the corner, and I would buy everything. Archie, Little Lulu, House of Secrets, House of Mystery, and some brown and white. Mexican horror comics that were the most salacious, grotesque thing ever created. I still have the Speaker 2 (23:51) whole collection. Speaker 3 (23:51) Like would make Robert Speaker 2 (23:52) Crumb blush? Speaker 3 (23:53) Oh my God. They said it was called Traditional Legends of Mexico, right? It was the name of the comic book. And it started very altruistic. Speaker 1 (24:01) Eventually, Speaker 3 (24:02) they started doing Edgar Allan Poe, Lovecraft, whatever. And then at the end, they were just, let's put a ruffing corpse and a scantily clad lady. And let's call it a day. Speaker 2 (24:14) My Speaker 3 (24:15) mother threw most of my comic books, Speaker 2 (24:17) like everybody. But I kept some. And your obsession with the monster, of course, makes total sense, which is. I'm not perfect. I'm flawed. I am in some way despicable, right? I have some sense that I am like defective in a way others are not. Speaker 3 (24:35) Especially because you're the second child. Speaker 2 (24:37) Yes. Like Speaker 3 (24:37) I'm not my brother who's like a stud in the disco. And I'm not, yeah, you're sort of in the middle. But also you can be pretty brutal with yourself and truth, meaning you don't have to be perfect, but you don't have to stay either. You have to give yourself the license to say, look, this is who I am. And this is what I need. And it's truthful, whether we like it or not. And monsters always are truthful. They step into the room, you know what they are. Speaker 2 (25:04) Right. And Speaker 3 (25:05) that's one thing I carry to design. When I design, I say everything designed needs to have a history. And I said this morning, I was talking about a cistern, a Roman cistern we're designing for a stop-motion movie we're making. And I said, the bricks on the floor are too small. And he said, why? I said, because they use larger slabs so the water would slide. This I know. And it's not that you want to make it more pretty or this. It's truthful. Speaker 1 (25:31) Yeah. It's the truth. Speaker 3 (25:32) You understand the design because it came out of a need. Same with the personality. Like we dress, we're expressing something. Wardrobe is personality, declaring. Speaker 2 (25:42) Trying to give you a shortcut. Speaker 3 (25:44) Into who you are. Speaker 2 (25:45) Yeah. And Speaker 3 (25:45) what do you own? What car do you drive? If you are wealthy, but you have a 2010 car, I know who you are. Speaker 2 (25:53) Right. A little bit. Yeah. Warren Buffett driving the old Cherokee famously for 30 years. He tells you that. Oh, okay. I really get it. It's not about the money. Speaker 3 (26:02) Or somebody wearing skeechers. A wealthy man. You go, well, he's going for comfort. Like one day I visited a very famous filmmaker, a friend of mine, and he was very excited. What are you driving? He says, my car is just a sensible ride. Speaker 2 (26:20) And that's what it is. It's Speaker 1 (26:21) a Speaker 2 (26:21) sensible ride. What car do you drive? Speaker 3 (26:23) It was a Chrysler 2012. Speaker 2 (26:25) Okay. I still have it. Okay. Love it. Wonderful. Because in Mexico, you love your car. Speaker 3 (26:30) And once you get it, that's your car. Speaker 1 (26:32) You Speaker 3 (26:33) don't have many cars. You're like, that's my car. Speaker 2 (26:35) Yeah. You go down to Mexico and you see all these incredible eighties full-size pickup trucks that are like. Well maintained. I call them El Guapo. Oh yeah. My car. Speaker 3 (26:44) I say, Hey Guapo, let's go. I talked to the car and like the Japanese, I believe objects have a personality and a soul. Speaker 2 (26:51) I Speaker 3 (26:51) cook. My favorite frying pan is the cheesiest frying pan, but I know exactly how it's going to heat, how it's going to cook the rice. Speaker 2 (26:59) Yeah. Speaker 1 (27:00) Since you feel a sense that they have some meaning to them. Are you a major collector then? I Speaker 3 (27:05) was, and I will say was because I'm quite pointedly donating, gifting and auctioning most of what I own. Because I think if you are still accumulating after 55, there's something not quite there. Speaker 2 (27:19) Unless Speaker 3 (27:20) you Speaker 2 (27:20) are going to, like what George did, which I Speaker 3 (27:22) adore, open it to the public. If it's for you after 55, it's like wearing short pants. I mean, look, everybody has a sense of fashion. I personally wouldn't subject people to me on short pants and a backwards baseball cap. Speaker 2 (27:37) Oh, Speaker 1 (27:37) I Speaker 2 (27:37) almost wore a backwards baseball cap. Speaker 2 (27:42) Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking if the movie is sold out before you show up. You drove across town, found parking, got in line, and now the person behind the counter is giving you that look. Sold out. Guess you're watching whatever starts in 10 minutes. Yeah, checking first is an excellent idea. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Company and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. Speaker 2 (28:25) Well, how do we explain the obsession with the macabre? Like what makes a little kid Catholic? It is a death heavy endeavor. The Speaker 3 (28:33) way Philippines and Mexican Catholicism, the inroad into the popularity of the culture, the friars noticed. The gorier the picture, the more people were like, this is interesting. So Mexican Catholicism is really gory. Speaker 2 (28:49) Yeah, there's blood on the crucifixion. You get some blood. And you Speaker 3 (28:52) get exposed bones. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You get that mortified flesh. They go hard. And Filipino Catholicism is just as hard. Speaker 2 (29:00) Well, and Filipinos. I've got to work with a ton of them in Detroit. They all believe in ghosts, too. Culturally. Everyone believes in ghosts. Almost everyone has a ghost story or multiple. Speaker 3 (29:10) Same. In a Mexican dinner, if somebody starts telling a story, a ghost story, you say, yeah, pass the salsa. Speaker 2 (29:17) Yeah, yeah. You're all ears. And Speaker 3 (29:18) everybody has one. Even my grandma, who hated everything supernatural, she had ghost stories. Bedtime, they don't tell you about Snow White. They said there was this white presence in the house I lived in. Speaker 1 (29:32) And I'm going to die tonight. When Speaker 2 (29:34) I'm done telling you this story, I'm likely to pass. Speaker 3 (29:38) My analyst says is what is called a counterphobic reaction, meaning I was so scared as a kid that I learned to love and get really intimate with what I feared, which is a coping mechanism. Well, Speaker 2 (29:50) that's like the same as when you role play with your trauma, right? Like if you've had sexual trauma, but you're into BDSM as a way to. interact with it. Whatever Speaker 3 (29:59) rein in you have for that, because then if you become the initiator, the controller, then there's some measure of control. I mean, when I was first scared that I remember as a kid, it was so profound. And my brother then scared me further that night. So, you know, I started seeing things in my bedroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Presence. I would wake up with lucid dreaming in which these things were actually. In my brain, they were there. But you have to learn. And I tell this story. People think it's a cute story. People think I make it up. It is completely true. I used to pee myself because I didn't want to get out of the crib because I saw a thing in the closet and fingers and waving at me in the rug. And I got up and I said, if you let me go to the bathroom, I will be your friend forever. Yeah. I told the monsters and they withdrew. Speaker 1 (30:50) Oh, my gosh. And Speaker 3 (30:51) this is true. Speaker 2 (30:52) Yeah, yeah, yeah. And Speaker 3 (30:53) I was able to go to the bathroom. But to this day, in my grandmother's house, there was a corridor, which I thought was incredibly long on the road to the bathroom. And I always thought, what if I see something standing at the end of the corridor, which is in Devil's Backbone? Speaker 2 (31:09) A few Speaker 3 (31:10) years ago, I went to that house. Speaker 2 (31:13) It's two feet long. It's two feet long. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Speaker 3 (31:16) in my mind, it was Speaker 1 (31:17) like- It Speaker 3 (31:17) was a gauntlet of horrors. Yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (31:19) Okay, so to speed through some things, you start messing with dad's Super 8 camera. When you're about eight years old, this fascination takes you to ultimately the University of Guadalajara. You study cinema. We Speaker 3 (31:30) founded the Speaker 2 (31:31) school. Speaker 3 (31:31) Oh, you Speaker 2 (31:31) did? And we Speaker 3 (31:32) were both the founders and the alumni. Oh, really? There was no school in Mexico in Guadalajara for that, only in Mexico City. Oh, okay. So we founded two things, a festival, which is still going on, and the school, which is still going on under another name, but the same university. Speaker 2 (31:48) Was any part of your artistic endeavor like an attempt to have control over this whole thing? I guess. I mean, I... I'm now your analyst. Speaker 3 (31:59) No, no, no. When you don't have a social life. When I say other kids were playing football, I could not understand. I felt 70 at age seven. You Speaker 2 (32:07) were in your study. I've been Speaker 3 (32:08) growing younger. Speaker 2 (32:10) Like now I feel younger. Speaker 3 (32:13) Benjamin Del Speaker 2 (32:14) Toro. Speaker 1 (32:18) If I only had looked like Brad Pitt at any Speaker 2 (32:20) stage. If any Speaker 1 (32:21) of us could. Speaker 2 (32:22) But I Speaker 3 (32:23) felt old. What I think is a way to, I mean, we are constantly finding balance. When people say, I had a bad day. Well, you're going to have a good one. I had a good day. Well, you're going to have a bad one. Yeah. End of story. Like the nature of the flow is the yin and the yang. In meditation, you remember nothing's permanent. Everything's going to peak and it's going to pass. Whether you're the most happy person in the world. It Speaker 2 (32:47) ebbs and flows. And Speaker 3 (32:48) I think writing, creating. You want it so bad. That you create it. That you create it. And the world does not cater to that. To permanence. No, no, no. To permanence or to what you. But is it Speaker 1 (32:59) cultural? Because I feel like in America, we are obsessed with happiness, with achieving it. And then we assume we just have that for the rest of our lives. But I do know in other cultures, you just know that that's not something you get and you have, that it is temporary. My Speaker 3 (33:14) dad has a real estate company. And he said, before you go into this doomed movie career, you should work for me. So I worked five years for that. And what I remember is payday. On Friday, everybody was a prince. And everybody knew that Monday comes, you're going to have to show up and start working again. Speaker 2 (33:35) You get two days of being a king. A largesse. Yeah. Buying drinks for friends. You Speaker 3 (33:42) put Speaker 2 (33:42) a clean shirt. Yeah. And you went dancing. By Sunday night, you're like, we're going to go back tomorrow. Why did I do that? But Speaker 3 (33:50) the thing that is funny for me is when the culture is all focused on secondary gains. And it pays no attention to primary gain. Speaker 2 (34:00) Please define those two. Speaker 3 (34:02) Secondary gains is the things that you have