Eva Benefield (on surviving the Black Swan Murder)

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Eva Benefield, daughter of murder victim Monica Padman, recounts her traumatic journey from surviving the 2014 Black Swan Murder—where her father, Doug, was killed by his second wife Ashley—through years of legal battles

Key takeaways

• Eva's mother died of a heart attack at 42; her father was out of town when she didn’t return from school that day

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Welcome, welcome, welcome to armchair expert. Experts on expert. I'm Dan Shepard. I'm joined by Lily Padman. Hi. Today we have Eva Benefeld on and she is a true crime survivor, author, influencer, and founder of Ghost Cowboy Apparel. She has a new memoir out called Ghost Girl Surviving the Black Swan Murder. So Eva is the daughter of the victim of the Black Swan Murder. This is a wild story. The wildness had begun long before the official wildness. Yes, and you get to hear all about it. She's been through everything. Please enjoy Eva Benefield. He's an I'm Texville. Thank you. I'm Dax. How are you? Good. How are you? Hi. Nice to meet you. Welcome. Thank you. Sorry, I know you were early. Sorry we made you wait. I was like early once today. I was late to the airport this morning. Oh, no. My layover was 10 minutes. Oh, no. I don't know how it happened. It said 53 minutes. I was like, okay, I have time. Ugh. That's so stressful. I wasn't stressed out until I realized we were boarding when I got there. And then I was like, well, I'm not going to be stressed anymore. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, geez. Yeah, I woke up late this morning and New York wasn't bad. LaGuardia wasn't bad. And then I think I flew into LAX maybe once before. Oh, really? Yeah, because I used to go to San Diego a lot, but I haven't really. spend a lot of time here. Are you going to be here for a little bit? Go back to Charleston tomorrow. Oh, you don't get to play around. Did I miss? Did you fly in today? I flew in today from New York. I flew in New York yesterday. Okay. You flew Charleston, New York yesterday. Here, Charleston. What time did you take off? I took off at five, no, we boarded at 5.50. Oh. New York. Oh. This is miserable. Do you feel terrible? So I woke up at 4.15 yesterday to get the airport to go to New York. Okay. I got to bed at like 10.30 last night, but I woke up at 4.15 and I was like, I have 20 more minutes. I'm just going to sleep until, you know, the driver texts me. Did not. It was 5.15 because I was waking up all night like, oh, my God, I have to go. Yeah. I hate that feeling. And you recently slept in past jury duty, too. That was a couple years ago. So he did your research. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you kind of have a pattern of, yeah, yeah. Actually, no, I don't. I wake up at five or six every day. Wow. My hatch alarm clock, yeah. Oh, and it like rises slightly, you know. What's a hatch alarm clock? Oh, it's life-changing. Tell me about it. Let's do an ad for them, right? Yes, I would love that. It's just an alarm clock, and it's a sound machine too, because I love my rainstorm. Yeah. And then it lights up over the course of like 10 or 15 minutes, and it gets brighter and the music gets louder and louder, and then you wake up. Gently, a gentle wake up. Well, my fear would be, it would be the proverbial frog in holl water being brought to a boil. You know that old adage. Yeah. That if you slowly and incrementally raise the loudness, I might just get used to it as I was sleeping. Does that make sense? Yeah. As opposed to being like hit and shaking out of... I know, but it's bad for your system to get like... I'm scared. You know, wake up with some of cortisol. Sometimes now I wake up before it starts really going on. Oh, you do. So used to it. Do you pick a song or is it a sound you wake up to? It's a sound. I have retro alarm clock. Oh, nice. Oh, okay. So it is a little... Yeah. Yeah, it'll get your attention. Eva, right? Yes, Eva. I'm dyslexic. So I'm like, yeah, that's definitely Eva, but then I'm like, also, who knows? Eva. I just don't know. I get all variations. And when I see Eva, I hear Eva. Oh, I bet you get that. That was a big elementary school thing. Do people plague you on the playground with saying Eva like that? Oh, yeah. They did. Yeah. This is like Monica was trying to hide her Indianness and then then back up. came out, which you're too young to know about, but it was a huge movie about a young Indian girl in England learning to play soccer. And it really exposed me because it was like, oh, she looks like that girl, so she must be indie. She wants to be a great soccer player. Yeah, duh. Obviously. So you grew up in Charleston. You were born in 2001? Yes. The book, one of the characters is kind of the low country is what we call it. Yeah, yeah. Explain the low country to us. Have you ever been there or anywhere in the low country? I've been to Charleston solo so long ago, but yes, I've been there once. And it feels like you're time traveling. It's like the most charming. It does. It's kind of like the beach, but we have the beach there too, but it's marsh. It's not rocks. And the only rocks we have are the jetties, and that's for sediment moving and stuff. And then you smell pluff mud at low tide. You can hear little fiddler crabs rolling around everywhere. And you'll see mud minnows, and it's just serene and quiet and peaceful. and hot and humid. And it's beautiful. And historic as hell. It's probably like among the oldest cities still thriving. Oh, yeah. Is it Is it near? Is that near it? Yeah, that's where I live. Oh, that's where you live. You live there. Yeah. Where does Danny McBride live? So he lives on Sullivan's. My favorite restaurants on Sullivan's. He also frequents there. So I'm seeing him all the time. Is it exciting? Kind of. I mean, everybody that's local is like, oh, it's Danny. Yeah. Yeah. Do you know Bev and Bob Miller? No, I don't think I do. That would be so cool. I mean, they live an aisle of palm. I feel like I'm saying it wrong. Welcome to my word. I know. Every time I say a word. Every time you say a word. You can say IOP and I'll know the reference. IEP. Okay, perfect. Yes, that's one of my best friends growing up parents and they moved there 10 years ago. They love it so much. I'm sure if I was running around, if you showed me a picture, I would see them. Yeah, because it's small, right? It's small. and I'm an avid runner, so I will run into people in like Mount Pleasant or downtown. And if I talk to them, I'm like, oh, yeah, I live on all the palms. We're like, oh, my God, I've seen you running out there. I'm like, yeah, that's me probably. You're like the local forest gum. I think so, yeah. So you have a pretty idealic childhood at the start, yeah? Yeah. Tell me about your relationship with mom and dad. I know they differ, but yeah, just tell me about that a little bit. Brought up like any other southern household. It was loving. It was my mom was just a sweetheart and gentle and kind, wouldn't her to fly. And she talked a lot. My dad was very quiet, very chill. So she was talking all the time, and he would just let Renee talk, church every Sunday. And just, you can't complain. Brothers and sisters? Two half brothers. Okay. So they're 14 and 11 years older than me on my mom's side. Got it. So she had already had a marriage? Yes. Again, I didn't grow up in the South. I grew up in the heathiness North. Divorce was like, who wasn't? Was that an issue? I think so. My mom's side of the family didn't really like the idea of it because divorce is just not, especially when you're a very avid churchgoer. It's kind of frowned upon. And I also still, to this day, don't really know all of the things about that marriage, about what they thought of my dad. I also don't get to see them very often. They're upstate South Carolina. But I also, I think it's just been kind of hush, hush. Nobody wants to talk about it. So it's just the elephant in the room sometimes. Yeah. And you were so young when she died that I'd imagine, too. There would have been many, many conversations about her previous life, in her opinion when you were old enough to, like, understand all those details. Right. But also in the South, you don't really talk about your dirty laundry. I'm from Georgia. There's just a lot of, like, we're sweeping that under the rug and not really, back then anyway. It's still now. When I was young, my mom, she was very picky about the moms that she would hang out with. And I would always ask why, because I would have friends, and she really wouldn't hang out with their moms. She was like, you'll get to an age where you'll understand. And one day I got to the age where I understand. It's like once everything happened with my dad, I could hear the parents talking. I could understand and pick up on, especially in Charleston, South Carolina. It's a little pretentious sometimes. Yeah, totally. We can sweep things under the rug very easily if we have to. Yeah. Okay, so tell me about the morning when you're 14, you're fixing to go to school. And you and mom have a little disagreement. Tell me about that morning. So I was a brat. Okay. I was a wheel. Yeah, I mean, I was 14. I was moody. My dad was out of town. My mom was taking me to school. She was a talker. And I was did not want to talk. So we were in the car and I just was kind of being a brat. And she dropped me off and I got out of the car and she was like, love you. And I slammed the door and I walked inside. And I also now realize I had very bad anxiety going to school. I didn't know that it was anxiety until later. But every morning it was like a stomach ache and kind of shaky. and I didn't realize until now. I'm like, oh, that was freaking out a little bit every day before school. So I was just kind of in my own little world, slammed the door, went to school. That was that. What was happening at school, do you suppose that was giving you anxiety? So I just switched from a smaller school to it's the second largest school in South Carolina. Oh, wow. So it was a big culture shock. I was private up until middle school. I went into a smaller public school for middle school, but it was still just a huge change seeing all of that. So I think it was that a little bit that just kind of threw me for a loop every day. Yeah, a humongous high school. Yeah. That is scary. So after school, you're expecting mom to pick you up. That was the routine. And she did not answer her phone. I was waiting at the carpool line and she has a tendency to be late. She could have been late to her own funeral and it would have been normal. So I was like, okay, I'm going to give her some grace. But then 30 minutes went by and still nothing. I tried calling her. I tried texting her and just nothing. At no moment where you're like, oh, I slammed the door, she's teaching me a lesson. Was there any part of your brain that was like, oh, maybe she didn't pick me up on purpose? No, my mom was never one to hold a grudge. I probably had texted her earlier that day. I know I was texting in the group chat with her and my dad first period that day. So I didn't think she was holding anything against me for that moment. Right. Yeah. So how did you get yourself home? A friend from the private school, she switched to that school too. I was like, hey, can you give me your right home? because my mom's nowhere to be found, so her and her mom took me home. And when do you start getting nervous when you get home? I show up to the front door because I didn't have my key, knocked on the door. She didn't answer. And every spring and every fall, she loved fashion. She had so many clothes. She had two of the same item and almost every single thing. Some with tags on it still, like a problem. Was her name Monica Padman by chance? No. Switch her closet out. She had a huge walk-in closet. it and then she'd put everything in tubs and she would be up until two, three in the morning. Yeah. Switch your closet out. Yeah. It's almost wintertime. We got to get the fur out. Oh, yeah. So I was like, okay, maybe she's just sleeping because she was not answering. And I went knocked on the door, didn't hear anything back. And at that point, my friend's mom was like, hey, let's just go get some dinner and then come back. So we went to Chick-fil-A, sat down, got some dinner. Wow. You left. Mm-hmm. Went back. Still nothing. And the house, their room was to the left of the front door behind some. bushes. So I went and I crawled into the bushes and their lights were off, but also still not that unnormal because my mom hated overhead lights. She liked natural lights. So I was like maybe it's getting darker out. So she just wants to circadian rhythm. And I saw kind of a silhouette and I didn't really want to make anything out of that. But I went to my friend's mom and I was like, hey, something's wrong. I think we need to get in the house. I mean, it was just us three girls. So we went across the street to the neighbor. And the neighbor he and his wife came out, and he's a huge, tall dude, and went and just busted the door down. Are you first to go in, I'd imagine, at your house? I went in briefly, and I kind of looked, and I went back out, and my neighbor went back in. My dog, Sully, he was the sweetest golden retriever you'll ever meet in your entire life, was mean. He was being mean to my neighbor. So he came out and said, hey, Eva, you need to come get Sully, he'll bite me. Oh. And so I went and I got Sully, and that's when I saw my mom. So I took Sully out and my neighbor. I waited a few minutes. My neighbor came back out and just shook his head at my friend's mom and his wife. And so that's when I kind of knew, okay. Something happened. Things not good. Oh, no. How sweet of Sully, though, that he was like, she can't protect herself right now. I've got to keep everyone away from her. I've never seen him like that. And to this day, he's never, never been like that again. Yeah. So what is it like to find mom that is terrifying? Is your first hope? Like, we just need to get a real hospital? Did you like run in when they were shaking their head? No, I didn't want to see that. I just knew, you know, at that point. If you hadn't answered anything, if she was even mildly unconscious, she probably would have came to eventually. Right, right. I had a gut feeling and I knew. So I just kind of got up because instinctually, I think everybody started calling my sister-in-law and 911 and everything. I was like, I know what's about to. to happen. I don't want to see the gurney. I'm going to go to the other house. Yeah. So, went across the street, sat down. Oh. Had she had any health scares prior to that? No. You know how greens powders are a big thing now? Yeah. She was on that in the 90s. Oh, really? She was healthy, always working out, always going on runs and walks, drinking her protein shakes, you know, like the Quest chips. She was having a special order those from the old brand that used to own it. Oh, wow. Oh my gosh. She was into Quest Chips back then? Yeah. I remember I was like five or six. She was going on Advocare.com and getting Quest Chips from Advocate. Oh, wow. Yeah. Always very, very healthy. Yeah, crazy unexpected. So that was just the furthest thing from what I thought would happen. And she had 75% blockage in an artery. Is that the conclusion? Yeah. So she had a heart attack and died. Yep. And you're 14 and you're at a new school and your dad's out of town. How long does it take for him to get home? He got home. It was middle of the night that night. It was the same day. Yeah, my sister-in-law and my mom's ex-husband came to pick me up. And so we went over to my brother's house and I did my homework and went to bed and then my dad woke me up probably two or three in the morning. Were you in a state of shocked at that moment? I think so. I don't think I really ever had like a full grief moment. I think that I was just so shocked. And I was out of school for three days. That was a Wednesday. I was out Thursday, Friday, went back Monday. Just tried to get back to normal. And weren't people urging you not to do that? Not really. My dad and my brother and my sister-in-law were just kind of like do what you want to do. Yeah, right. And how was your dad taking it? He, I think, held it together for me. I didn't see him really break down until her funeral, which was a couple days later, but that was the only time I saw him break down. And he would console me when I came to him about it and just say, I miss her too. I don't think that he wanted to show me that he was mourning because I think he wanted to stay strong. Yeah. How did you and dad's relationship evolve after? So we were already pretty close. I was always kind of tagging along the lows and helping with house projects and doing whatever. And we just got even closer. That was like nine months of pure fun. He kind of did whatever I wanted to do. Yeah, you kind of have leverage at that point. Yeah. So, I mean, I remember I'd been begging to go to San Diego for so long. And I think a month after that, he was like, so guess what? We're going to San Diego. Yeah. No way. He's like anything I can do to help cheer her up. And also just let's live life. Were you carrying any guilt over your last exchange? That weighed on me for a little bit. And I mean, the more I talked to my dad about it too, because he knew that was something. I can't keep a secret. I can't tell a lie. So I just immediately went to him. I was like, this is the last interaction we had. And he was like, you know that that is not what your mom would remember you by. you should remember your mom by. That meant nothing to her. Yeah. And as a parent of teenage kids, it's standard biz. Yeah, exactly. They're just randomly like terrible to you for no reason. It's just the way, yeah. You quickly go like, did I? And you're like, no, I didn't do shit. This is just happening. Yeah. When did the Bible verses every morning start? I think it was towards the end of my high school career because I could drive. I was out of the house a lot. He mentioned it a couple times. It hurt him a little bit when I got my first car and could get out of the house because I was never around anymore. That was something that he brought up in two different conversations we had about Ashley, which was like, you're never home anymore. I miss you. You know, as soon as I gave you your car, you were just gone. And so I think that was kind of his way of connecting after that. Well, sorry, what is the Bible? I don't know. What is that? You just did it every morning together? Every morning he sent her a Bible verse. She always woke up to a Bible verse. Oh, that's lovely. Okay. Yeah, which later comes into play. Okay, got it. Yeah, the circle moment. Yeah. So during that nine months after your mother died, you did specifically ask him, do you think you'll ever remarry? I asked him the night that he came home after my mom died. Wow. That was like my first question. You know, he gave me the whole spiel of like, I've seen a lot of death, and I'm here for you, and we'll get through this together. And then I asked, are you going to get remarried and have kids? And he said, no. I mean, it was like probably three in the morning. Yeah. flown in from Texas and he was like, I don't think so, no. Do you understand what his job was? He was a consultant for defense contractors? You know, like what was? Kind of. I think. Yeah, it seems like an abstract job to have your hands around as a kid. He had some crazy technology. He was a brain guy. Encryption was his forte. So he was doing a lot of encrypting on some crazy government projects and kind of consulting the military and just anything that needed protecting. He'd have like prototypes of stuff I'd go to his office. office and I was 10. I didn't really know what I was looking at, but I remember some of it. I can't even wrap my head around it now. So nine months later, he's in Florida, right? Where he meets Ashley? Yes. Yeah, they did meet. He was at a dinner or something. Yeah, something in Palm Springs. Palm Beach? Palm Beach. Is that it? Palm Springs is here. Palm Springs is here. Okay. But she was working for the Trump campaign. Yeah. So definitely she was probably in Palm, or not doing, she was probably in Palm Beach. That was definitely it. Okay. So they met, Now, this is crazy, right? This is a little chunk is wild. Yeah. They met, and then 13 days later, they got married. Yeah. And she's 24, and he's 54. Yep. And you are 15? 15. Okay. Explain the first time you are made aware of Ashley. So we were in the car. He was picking me up from school because I couldn't drive yet. I was 15, and so he picked me up, and he always had his conference calls on speaker. and he picked me up from school. We were on the way home, conference call on the speaker phone, and I hear them talking about this conference that they were going to have the next weekend in North Carolina, and they said, Doug, are you going to bring your girlfriend? Oh, boy. And I was 15, so that week or two prior, I had seen him kind of at night in bed on his phone, like sitting a heart emoji, you know, like a kissy face. So I just kind of put two and together, and I was real quiet at first when he got off, and he said, what's wrong, Eva? I said, what am I talking about your girlfriend? He said, oh, they got me confused with another guy. It's not me. I said, well, I saw you texting a heart emoji to someone last night. He was like, it's not my girlfriend. We're just friends. I said, well, have y'all gone out to dinner? And he was like, yeah. And I said, well, have you kissed? And he was like, yeah. I said, so you're dating. Yeah, so that's more than a friend. So it's exactly what they said on the phone. Yeah. So I was like, okay. That one, I didn't really know what to say. I was just like, right, I trust you. If this is making you happy. Right, because you don't have any idea she's talking. You don't have any idea anything about her, right? Kids have varying opinions, right? I've talked about this when my own daughter's like, okay, so if I die, is mom allowed to remarry? Funnily enough, the verdict was mom can remarry, but I can't. Okay, so I don't know why it's that way. But at any rate, also between the two of them, there's a much different reaction to that. So I'm wondering, would it have been your wish that your dad never dated again? Or were you like, he needs a date and not be lonely? I don't even know where I stood at that point. I feel like I was annoyed, but I didn't think that it would go any further than that. One second, he's single. Next second, he has a girlfriend. It wasn't introduced in any sort of slow way, like, you know, start bringing her over. And this is a friend. And then it was just kind of like boom, we're dating. I think that if it had been that way, I would have been a little more pushing against it. Like, hey, no, this isn't cool. Yeah. But just because I had no choice but to kind of react to me like, oh, okay, I didn't get a chance. Well, in none of the scenarios I modeled out with my own children was anyone allowed to date within nine months. I think even with mom being allowed to remarry, it was like after X amount of years. I haven't even registered that she was dead yet. So I was just kind of like, all right. That's a lot. Yeah, you're dealing with such upheaval. This is interesting. I have a friend who has been through a similar thing. Her mother died and then her father. She married very, very quickly to also kind of like a pretty young and. very fast, sort of random. It's more common than you would think. I've heard a lot of stories since then, and people would be like, yeah, men just remarry a lot faster. They can't handle it, yeah. What's funny is as I'm learning this story, because by the way, I didn't follow any of this, right? Like, I wasn't aware of the Black Swan murder. Okay, yeah. That missed me. Yeah, I don't watch any of those shows. I don't watch 48. Now I've seen 48 hours researching you, but I had no clue that that had happened. So when I'm first finding out that your dad married this woman 13 days later, I'm going, I need an explanation. Right. My conclusion, tell me if I'm completely off base, which is like, she's sending him naked photos and stuff. She's very sexually engaged and he's very religious and he can't have sex with her if they're not married. So literally this thing is like fast past just to have sex. Well, so here's also something. I don't think that she was as religious as she made out to be to my dad. I think that she just was like, if that's what it's going to take, then I'll get married right then and there, you know, like in her head. She wasn't saved about outrely. She was like, yeah, well, I'm a Christian too, so we have to. Oh, geez. Well, it only worked to her benefit to fast pass it. Which, again, I try to resist my poking at religion, but there lies one of my issues. Like, what are we talking about? You got to get married and you're going to make some crazy decision to appease. When people do it that fast, because I have friends that are getting married now, I'm like, we're 25. Yeah. There's time. There's time. You don't know these people. Exactly. You don't even know you yet really. Yeah, our brains are just starting to develop. Exactly. When did you meet her? The next day. After the wedding, the secret wedding. Wait. Yeah, so I wasn't even at the secret wedding. They were dating, and then the next day, they were still dating, but I met her. And then the next day, to my knowledge, they were married. So it was like three days, you know, I got the introduction. And then the next day, yeah. Yeah, explain the introduction. I think you said, but you anticipated them going like, okay, so we're going to be dating. And then your worst case scenario was like, God, did he propose to her? Yeah. So the next day, he was like, actually, she's in town. Let's go pick her up from the airport. I said, okay, so I went and got in the truck. And we went and picked her up from the airport. And he was just kind of making the small talk for us. He was like, she's a ballerina and teaches children. And she's done this and done that. I was like, okay, cool. Were you shocked by the fact that she was nine years older than you? I didn't know the exact age. It just kind of went over my head at that point. I don't really remember the rest of that day. I know it was just kind of small talk, and I think they went and did their own thing, and I went and hung out with my friends. The next day, I was getting ready to go to my friend's house, and my dad came upstairs, and he was like, you need to come downstairs, and we need to have a family chat. And it struck me a little weird that he said family chat. Yeah, why don't you get the non-family member out of here and we'll have a little chat. You mean me and you? Yeah, we can do that. Totally. He said, no, I think, like, we all need to go downstairs and talk. And I said, I don't have anything to say to her. Y'all are dating. Good for you. Yeah. The only thing that I would go and sit downstairs for right now with her is if you were going to say you want to propose. And those words came out of my mouth and then the next second he said, we're married. So I wasn't legally allowed to drive my car without an adult with a full license yet. So I got in the front seat, made them both get, it was a two-door Jeep wrangler. So they had to, like, go crawl into the back seat. And they sat in silence like this. And I was angrily driving over to my friend's house. They took my car and I was just at my friend's house. Oh, my God. This is a lot to process. Had your dad displayed any previous kind of rash impulsive decisions? or is this completely out of character? That was so out of character. I mean, he was usually very slow and meticulous and thought about everything. He's into encryption for Christ. Yeah. The biggest life lesson I learned up until that point was measure twice cut once from him because I was always doing home projects. So he was always very meticulous about decision making. Whoa. Yeah. Simultaneous to this, this is also interesting, your friend moves into your house. Yes. Tell me about that. So that was in the fall, right when school started when I found out about Ashley and my dad, she moved in that December right after Christmas. I was at a lacrosse kind of showcase thing up in North Carolina. And my dad and Ashley were there. We all went together. And I was in the middle of a game, but I stepped out off the field. And I saw that she had texted. She was like a friend that I had in school, but never out of school. That was freshman year. So we were in sophomore year now. And we were still in touch, but never really hung out. And she had called me a bunch of times and texted me. I called her back and she said, hey, this is really last minute and random, but I need somewhere to stay. Could I stay with you? And I say, yeah, sure, why not? So I asked my dad. And my dad was like, I mean, we have three extra bedrooms upstairs. You all have at it. So we went and picked her up. She moved in. Wow. Stay tuned for more armchair expert. If you dare, we are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking that your keys are actually in your hand before you close the car door. Have you ever stood in a parking lot full of sun staring at your keys sitting right there on the seat four inches away and completely useless to you? It's a very specific kind of humbling. Yeah. Checking first is a good idea. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate roadside. plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability, insurance provided by Allstate North America Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois, roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club, incorporated an Allstate affiliate. After the kind of shell shockness wore off, what was your assessment of Ashley, your new stepmother? What were your first impressions of her? I could tell she was kind of fake nice. And not smart. It was kind of like talking to an airhead all the time. I picked up on it as time went on and I got older as well, that she was just kind of acting super smart, but you could tell she just didn't know anything about anything. And you were feeling the manipulativeness? Yes. That was pretty quick, I would say, that I started realizing I didn't have her way, so she would go to my dad. And my dad would be like, well, you've got to do this because Ashley, you know. And your dad wanted her to step in and be a motherly figure. because you didn't have one anymore. Right. But she wasn't a good match for that role, right? I mean, again, she's nine years older. Exactly. He was eight years older. Both my brothers are married, and I'm very close with my sister-in-law, my oldest brother's wife. She had moved in right after my mom passed to kind of help with the house stuff, and my dad was out of town a lot still traveling, so it was me and Bev, and, you know, she taught me everything that I needed to know at that point in my life. And I was like, you know, I'm good. I don't need another 20-something-year-old. I have Beverly. So I was nice to Ashley, but as soon as she started to put her foot down about certain things and say, well, no, I'm going to tell your dad or you have to do this or I'm going to take your car away. The first time she threatened the car, that pissed me off. I was like, no, we're not doing that. And were you afraid of confrontation or no? Not really. Okay, so you would fight back in those moments. Kind of. I'm not a confrontational person, but I will get my punches in when I can, you know. So I, you're not a pushover. Yeah. So if she said something, I'd try to be polite about it at least until if she kept pushing, that's when I'd just kind of be like, no, I'm not doing that. Yeah. Yeah. And as this wild experiment is running its course, what are you noticing in the nature of their relationship? Super all over each other, lovey-dovey at first, very much PDA all the time. It was disgusting. Yeah. Yeah. As time went on, it was. Ashley just bitching about something constantly, and my dad just kind of sitting there and taking it and listening. Eva said this, or somebody said this. And my dad was quiet and chill, so he'd just kind of take it and not say anything. He's like, get me back to my encryption. Yeah, exactly. I'm back to my office. That's why he's out of town all the time. Then she started going with him. What was the event that led to him firing the gun in the house? I

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