Eric Goode (documentary filmmaker)

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

Eric Goode, acclaimed documentary filmmaker behind 'Tiger King' and 'Chimp Crazy,' shares his wildly eclectic life journey on Armchair Expert. From growing up in a chaotic,

Key takeaways

• Obsession can be a powerful force for creating meaning and driving impactful work.
• Conservation efforts require engaging with opponents rather than demonizing them.

Main topics

• Documentary filmmaking
• New York City nightlife and art scene

Notable quotes

"Obsession can give life purpose."

Conclusion

Eric Goode's life exemplifies the transformative power of curiosity, passion

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Speaker 2 (0:02) Experts on Expert. I'm Dan Shepard and I'm joined by Monica Speaker 3 (0:05) Padman. Speaker 4 (0:05) Hi. Speaker 3 (0:06) This guy is among the most interesting human beings I've ever spoken to in my life. Eric Goode. Speaker 4 (0:14) Colorful character. Speaker 3 (0:16) He, immediately what you'll know is he directed Tiger King and we all saw that. He also directed Chimp Crazy. Ugh, Speaker 4 (0:22) a favorite of ours. Speaker 3 (0:23) A huge favorite, Tonka. And his new documentary is on HBO. It's streaming now called Monsters of God. I love it so much. And I thought we were just going to talk to a documentarian. No, no, no, no, no, no. Eric's had 26 lives before being the biggest documentarian. He owns all your favorite hotels in New York City. It's wild. Crazy history with nightclubs. Biggest turtle conservationist probably around. This dude has done every single thing. He's so punk rock. I loved him. Please enjoy Eric Goode. Speaker 2 (1:15) I've been here for about two hours. So it's okay. Fashionably late. Speaker 3 (1:20) I Speaker 2 (1:21) was just asking about the set decorating and Monica's grandmother. Speaker 3 (1:24) Oh, isn't she beautiful? Speaker 2 (1:26) I thought it was Monica. You have Indian descent or what are you? Yeah, yeah. Because your last name is what? Padmin. Speaker 4 (1:33) Which is not, that's a shortened version that my grandfather did. Uh Speaker 2 (1:38) -huh. Okay. I spent a little time in India. I emailed you print. I'm going to fucking explode. Oh, it's Speaker 4 (1:44) happening again. This happened yesterday. What? Speaker 2 (1:47) We're having a, what is it, a wardrobe malfunction? Yeah, exactly. Mechanical malfunction. There's been Speaker 4 (1:52) a nip slip. Is it Speaker 2 (1:53) a mechanical malfunction, Rob? Gmail email malfunction? Where are you from in India, or are you from India? Speaker 4 (1:58) I was born in Georgia. Georgia, Speaker 2 (2:00) U.S., Georgia. Not Georgia, Eastern Europe. I wish. Speaker 4 (2:03) That would make me way more worldly. Speaker 2 (2:05) But no. My Speaker 4 (2:06) family's from Kerala. Speaker 2 (2:07) Oh, Kerala. I was in Kerala in the Western Ghats. I don't know. When was that? A couple years ago. Running around in a tiger preserve where I'd given some money to help the tigers. They Speaker 4 (2:21) have so many exotic animals there, so I bet. Well. Speaker 2 (2:25) I was there not for the tigers, but yeah, I know that part of India. I Speaker 4 (2:30) know. I've only been once when I was, it turns out, five years old. I thought it was four. I've been saying four my whole life. My mom corrected me the other day. You've Speaker 2 (2:37) only been back to the homeland once. Well, Speaker 4 (2:40) no, and then we went with Bill Gates a couple years ago, but we didn't get to go to Carolina. Speaker 2 (2:46) Oh, that guy, Bill Gates. Speaker 3 (2:47) That guy. Speaker 4 (2:48) That guy. We went with him for his foundation. Speaker 3 (2:51) I'm so glad you guys didn't talk too much because I have the most exciting things to reveal to Monica about you. And I want to start this by saying we don't generally interview directors. I can't say why. We've had a handful, but in general, we don't. Well, I'm a fake director, so keep going. But I was so obsessed with Chimp Crazy. I can't imagine I got back to you, but I bet that's all I talked about for the entire time it was on, on this show. Of course, I love Tiger King, and I love them so much that I was like, I actually want to meet this guy because these docs are so crazy, and I want to talk about animals. And then when I started reading about you today, I was like, oh my God, you're one of the most interesting human beings in the world. I would have wanted to interview you anyways. You've had like 25 lives. And some of these lives are going to make Speaker 2 (3:35) Monica's head explode. It's very exciting. You must be talking about someone else. Someone sitting over here, maybe. Speaker 3 (3:40) No, no, no, no. A new guest coming in. No full humility. But let's start at the beginning. And when she hears these, I mean, this is a very exciting. What, like Speaker 4 (3:48) you like we're on friends or something? Speaker 3 (3:50) First of all, don't Speaker 4 (3:51) believe Speaker 2 (3:51) what you read on the internet. Wikipedia, Google, even peer review is inaccurate. I'm just saying, even scientific peer review is not accurate. So let me hear this fiction that you've read Speaker 3 (4:02) about me. We're now throwing out peer review journals. How many years I did in prison? What did you mean? Well, let's start. You have the best birthday in the world, our daughter's birthday, December 19th, 1957. Oh, God, you must be talking about the wrong guy. I was born Speaker 2 (4:17) in 77. Okay. And you were originally born in Rhode Island, but then you grew up in New York City until eight? My formative year is mostly Northern California, in California. But yes, I had a stint in New York. Speaker 3 (4:29) And was it zero to eight? Speaker 2 (4:30) I was born in Rhode Island. I left when I was so young, I don't remember. And then we went to California, then we went to Westchester, New York, not New York City. My father was a teacher, and he moved around a lot because he couldn't hold jobs very well. He was an artist as well? He was an artist and not terribly successful, but I learned a lot about art from him, yeah. And then I grew up high school years and a bit earlier in Marin County and Sonoma County in California. And for folks who have not been, it's on the other side of Speaker 3 (4:56) the Speaker 2 (4:56) Golden Gate Bridge. Speaker 3 (4:57) It's Speaker 2 (4:57) Redwoods. It's so beautiful. Very privileged part of the Speaker 3 (5:00) country. I moved to New York in 1977 and spent over 40 years in New York City. Wow. Okay, but Mom was a naturalist and a conservationist? In what capacity? Speaker 2 (5:09) Listen. You know this, you know this probably. Everyone has crazy families. I always think mine's the craziest, but it's not. I had an eccentric mom who taught me to love creatures no matter how small. If someone squashed a bug in school, I would tell them to eat it because don't kill something unnecessarily. My father was an artist and a professor. A professor? And gay, which I found out much later in life. So I had this kind of father that was like anti-sports. He started his own high school. It was very artsy-fartsy. And I didn't really find out. about his sexuality until very late in life. My parents had a very odd relationship. As a result of the hidden five kids. She didn't know until very late in life. My mom just was attracted to guys that had kind of an effeminate side. Yeah. Like art and museums and botanical gardens. Yeah, Speaker 1 (5:58) those Speaker 2 (5:58) guys are great. I think all girls are attracted to those kind of guys. Speaker 1 (6:01) Yeah. That's Speaker 2 (6:02) why Speaker 1 (6:02) you guys have girl best friends. Speaker 2 (6:04) What's not to like? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's what all girls are. Maybe the SCX wasn't too exciting. Speaker 4 (6:09) Yeah. But Speaker 2 (6:11) he was able to sire five of you. I think he just wanted to keep my mom busy so he didn't have to engage in that kind of stuff. I don't know. It was the 50s and 60s. That's a very hard time to be a gay man. That's true. Speaker 3 (6:23) Yeah. Speaker 2 (6:24) Stonewall happened, and that was one of the big gay breakthroughs in New York. But yeah, you couldn't say you were gay. in those days. You said your Speaker 3 (6:32) mother was eccentric. Can you elaborate a tiny bit on eccentric? That can take a lot of shades. Speaker 2 (6:36) Yeah. I always sort of compare my family to the Royal Tannenbaums or something, because we grew up with a lot of animals in the house, tropical fish, rats, snakes, lizards, you know, dog, cat, five kids, dysfunctional, fighting all the time. I went to this thing called Est when I was really young. That's a precursor Speaker 3 (6:55) to Speaker 2 (6:55) landmark. In the Speaker 3 (6:56) 70s, Speaker 2 (6:57) exactly, when I was 16. So, you know, new age. Speaker 3 (7:00) Can Speaker 2 (7:00) I Speaker 3 (7:00) quickly ask what you thought of that S experience, right? Because their proprietary approach was like confrontation therapy, right? Speaker 4 (7:07) It's a self-help organization. Yeah, but the Speaker 2 (7:10) guy, Warner Earhart, was like a used car salesman, you know, probably from Detroit or somewhere near there. And he then had an epiphany and he said, I'm going to indoctrinate this thing. And used car salesmen can be pretty convincing. And so then with Esty, he was pretty convincing. And he had his minions. And my mom thought, oh, my brother and I are fighting. We're 15 and 16. You got to go to Est in San Francisco and spend two days listening to this guy. I didn't know what the fuck I was listening to. All I remember was. But at the end, they say, get on the floor. Everyone gets on the floor of this big, giant auditorium. And they say, relive your birth. And I'm lying on the floor with my brother. And we hear everyone agonizing yells and screams. Oh, Speaker 3 (7:48) my God. Speaker 2 (7:49) This primordial ooze. We're like, what the fuck is going on here? And we left. And then they say to you, did you get it? And we go. I don't know, and they said, you got it. And I was asked. But did it cure your brother and you in that you had a shared moment where Speaker 3 (8:04) you're like, oh, they're Speaker 2 (8:04) crazy, we're not. I guess we, you know. We didn't know what was going on. You don't have that kind of intellectual. I didn't. I was dyslexic. I was bad in school. I was like just going through the motions at Est. Although today I might even do a doc about Est. Comes full circle. Did you watch the Americans? Speaker 3 (8:21) No. Incredible show on FX with Matthew Rhys and Keri Russell, where they're playing Russian operatives in America in the early 80s. And she falls in love with Est. Oh, Speaker 2 (8:33) really? Yeah, so there's lots of scenes set in Est. I mean, Est, they always keep wanting you to go back. It's like Scientology a little bit. Like, it went from Est to actualization to the forum. Yeah, landmark forum. And they keep wanting you to get to the next level. I did it once. I grew up. In such a new age crazy world in Northern California in the 70s, we had Joseph Campbell come and speak at our ranch. We had everyone you can think of in the new age movement at that time. And so I kind of rejected it. Sure. Because I was just so indoctrinated. My Speaker 3 (9:03) dad was sober and he was into Course in Miracles and all this stuff. And I was like, what the fuck's going on? Did mom go to Esalen? Speaker 2 (9:10) Oh, my God. Esalen used our ranch every summer. So Esalen, the first time I think I ever had sex was the kid of one of the Esalen leaders. But yes, of course, Esalen, you know, all of that stuff. Jim Jones was in San Francisco at the time, but I didn't drink the Kool-Aid. Thank Speaker 4 (9:25) God. Speaker 2 (9:25) But there was Synanon. There were all the communes. It was what I grew up in. Synanon's Speaker 1 (9:30) great. Speaker 2 (9:30) Yeah, but of course Esalen. Did you watch that doc, the Synanon doc? I did watch some of the Synanon doc. I do remember vividly when... the head of Synanon put the rattlesnake in the mailbox to try to kill the journalist unsuccessfully. And of course, anything with rattlesnakes perks my ears. So yes, I lived in California when that happened. Speaker 3 (9:50) Okay, so you end up going Speaker 2 (9:52) to two different art schools, right? You go to one in San Francisco and then you ultimately go to Parsons? Yeah, I got kicked out though. Speaker 3 (9:58) There's already a vibe here, right? And I find it fascinating that you are a documentarian and interview people. You're reminding me of Keith Morrison. Like, you don't want to talk. Yeah, but Speaker 2 (10:07) whatever. Yeah. Speaker 4 (10:08) No, but what? Speaker 2 (10:11) Right? A little bit? Yeah, there's a little bit of that. These are all interesting things. I mean, listen, takes one to know one over their decks because you have an unorthodox career path, if I might say so myself. For sure. Just looking you up very briefly. Yeah. And going from Detroit suburbs and the car world into anthropology and Speaker 3 (10:29) studying Speaker 2 (10:29) that. How the Speaker 3 (10:30) hell do you land where you are right now? Yeah. So we all have a weird... Well, no, we don't all. Well, some of us do. Yeah, some of us do. I'm always very interested in folks because there's... A lot of underlying things within that, right? I, too, was dyslexic. I've come to learn I'm probably ADHD. Probably me, too. I Speaker 2 (10:46) get passionate about things, Speaker 3 (10:47) and then if I've done anything for a while, I'm like, okay, what's the next thing in life I can do before I am off this planet, which is coming quickly? But you do go to Parsons. Speaker 4 (10:56) Which one did you get kicked out of? Parsons or the first one? Speaker 2 (10:58) Both. Speaker 4 (10:59) I Speaker 3 (10:59) was really good at getting kicked out of school. Well, Speaker 2 (11:02) I got kicked out of my father's high school, which was called the School of Arts and Sciences for cheating on a geometry test. My father's. He started the school. It was an alternative high school that was called the School of Arts and Sciences. Thank God for that because I know you've had Malcolm Gladwell on, but thank God because I could achieve in that environment because I excelled in art and I sucked in academics. I got kicked out of my father's school. I got kicked out of Parsons after the first foundation year because I was going to nightclubs in New York and that's where the art scene was really sort of germinating at the time. What was your infraction? At the art school, I just think I wasn't good enough because there was a certain level of academics you had to take in the foundation year. And I was studying more Studio 54. And Speaker 3 (11:43) they're Speaker 2 (11:43) not nightclubs, at the Mug Club. These are places that predate you guys, but they were big clubs in New York at the time. This is where we start with the mind-blowing stuff. Speaker 4 (11:51) Ooh, he's excited. Speaker 3 (11:53) This is incredibly exciting. So Eric founded with a couple other folks, right? Or just you? I like to say everything's just me, by the way. Speaker 4 (12:01) Never Speaker 3 (12:02) give credit to the others. It was all just me. You were a founder of, or if not the only, of Area, this nightclub that... fused or conflated nightclub life with art. And among the collaborations at Aerie, it was like wildly popular for four years. Is that how long it was going? A little less, but Speaker 2 (12:22) yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (12:23) A Warhol collaboration. Speaker 3 (12:25) Bosquiat collaboration. Keith Speaker 2 (12:27) Haring. Speaker 3 (12:28) Wow. Speaker 2 (12:29) Is this contemporary to Studio 54? Post the real part of Studio 54. My two friends that own Studio 54 unfortunately went to prison. And when they got out of prison... area basically opened in 1983. Studio 54 from like 76 or 7 to 1979 or whenever they went to prison. Yes, okay. And they got out of prison and they really helped promote my club. Because they were like, Speaker 3 (12:52) we're fresh out of prison. What Speaker 2 (12:53) do Speaker 3 (12:53) we do? What's next? What's the new club? Yeah, they're like gangsters that got out. They're trying to figure out, like, what's the next heist at JFK? Speaker 2 (12:59) But, you know, in New York nightlife success, I guess, if you measure it, four years, three years is like dog years. So that's like 50 years. Speaker 4 (13:08) Clubs are Speaker 2 (13:08) ephemeral in New York. So if you have a run that's three years, you're doing pretty well. Speaker 4 (13:12) Yeah. Because Speaker 2 (13:12) none of them last, in New York City at least. Okay, so Speaker 3 (13:15) I'm trying to do the math on your age. What Speaker 2 (13:17) age were you around that? I was in my 20s, and we were all in our 20s back there. Andy Warhol was kind of like the older statesman in the art world, but Jean-Michel Basquiat and I used to do our birthday parties together. Oh, my Speaker 4 (13:30) God! By Speaker 2 (13:32) the way, Speaker 3 (13:32) we're not to the part Speaker 2 (13:33) that's going to make your Speaker 3 (13:34) head spin. Well, Keith Speaker 2 (13:35) Haring, Jean-Michel, all of us were young kids in New York trying to Speaker 3 (13:39) find our way. Speaker 2 (13:39) Had you met at Speaker 3 (13:39) Parsons or just around the village? No, no, I just Speaker 2 (13:41) met... Everyone I met was in the nightclub scene. There was no... cell phones, no internets, no social media, no nothing. The only way you could connect with people is go to a place where other people were. And it was sex, drugs, and rock and roll, and art. And they were kind of like laboratories, these clubs, for ideas and exchanging ideas and cross-pollinating. And so I met Jean-Michel and Keith, and all of us met in the late 70s. We just started trying to figure out how to make our mark like everyone. Madonna was a bartender back then. What? It's this place called Lucky Strike in New York. A different Lucky Strike than the one you may know of. But we all would come to New York because we're misfits from all over the country. You seem to Speaker 3 (14:20) have done some research on me, so you're aware of the fact that I'm an addict, right? Speaker 2 (14:23) Yeah, yeah, but I was an addict too, and I'm still an addict in a different way. Oh, yeah, right. So when I read this little passage about area, all I can think about is how many drugs, Speaker 3 (14:32) was it a wash in Speaker 2 (14:34) drugs? The drug scene always kind of morphs Speaker 3 (14:37) and Speaker 2 (14:37) changes. In those days, it was cocaine, Quaaludes, and heroin were the three. Math was more of a rural drug. It wasn't an urban drug as it is today. And it wasn't like what it's become. But yeah, it was those three drugs and alcohol. And were you participating in them? I was a late bloomer with addiction. In the early days, I had no money, and so I was just survival mode. And so I would do it opportunistically, but really, I was so focused on trying to be able to survive in New York City. And New York City was a very different place back then, much cheaper, but nevertheless... Was area not hugely profitable? It sounds like it would have been. Clubs are rarely hugely profitable. I never forget when Andy Warhol said to me on Andy Warhol TV, he goes, you know, gee, Eric and Andy Way, what are you going to do with your money? And I said, I'm going to get... Cool tortoises I could never afford. He was like, what? But, you know, listen, we made money. We poured the money back into the club because we had these elaborate themes and we would just try to outdo ourselves. Your production was expensive. Yeah, so in the end, we walked away with not a lot of money, but we walked away with confidence that we could do it. Gave us that thing when you're young and you get that confidence. Yeah. And it's Speaker 3 (15:46) a Speaker 2 (15:46) success. Fuck yeah. And Speaker 3 (15:47) a Speaker 4 (15:47) cash aid. It's Speaker 2 (15:49) like Michael Jordan winning the game shot in college. He does that. He'll always be able to win the game winning shot. Speaking of Michael Jordan, Jordan, you have a talent that he has. You can talk and chew gum at the same time, but he has one other thing he can do. He can stick his tongue out and dunk, because I saw Michael on the floor at the garden one time talking trash to everyone at the Knicks. Yeah. His tongue wagging out, his gum still in his mouth, and dunking. I was like, how the fuck does the gum stay in? Well, Speaker 3 (16:15) he's a Speaker 2 (16:15) coordinated human being if we know anything about him. Unbelievable. He scored 50 points in that game against the Knicks when he came back from baseball. But anyway. Were you at any of those Speaker 3 (16:24) Pacers games back Speaker 2 (16:25) in the day? I was at that one Michael Jordan game because Naomi Campbell took me. We sat on the... What is going on? Speaker 3 (16:33) I'm parsing this out for you, Monica. I remember Speaker 2 (16:35) being able to listen to every word Michael said. It was amazing. Wow. Okay, I'm going to get right to it. If you had to pick your Speaker 3 (16:42) favorite place to be in New York City. Speaker 4 (16:45) The Rose Store. Speaker 3 (16:46) No, no, no. Speaker 4 (16:47) Oh, Speaker 3 (16:47) man. No, no. Okay. Don't do that to poor Monica. No, no, she's going to pass this. What is your favorite place to post up and be and spend time at in New York City? Speaker 4 (16:57) I mean, I spend a lot of time at the Bowery. Speaker 3 (17:00) This motherfucker started the bow. You Speaker 4 (17:02) did not. Speaker 3 (17:03) He started the maritime. What? Yep. Maritime. I'm just saying quiet. No, you were shaking your head and I didn't know he did Speaker 4 (17:09) it. Speaker 3 (17:09) Because Speaker 4 (17:10) he's embarrassed. The Speaker 3 (17:11) maritime. He's Speaker 4 (17:12) incredible. The Speaker 3 (17:13) Waverly. The Bowery. Dude, I was at Speaker 2 (17:17) the Speaker 3 (17:17) maritime when I shot Baby Mama. I think it was the summer of 2005. The restaurant downstairs. I'm going to bore you with this. 2005. Okay. Okay. I want you to know how your things actually have touched. People, it seems like you don't do well taking that kind of compliment, but I'm Speaker 4 (17:30) going Speaker 3 (17:30) to tell it to you. It's good. I'm Speaker 4 (17:31) glad your ego isn't what it should be. Speaker 3 (17:34) Well, we'll try to get it there over the course of this next two hours. Okay, so I had been with a girl for nine years. We broke up. I was very in this doldrums of like, man, I just, I don't even know what my life is. We were supposed to have a baby. I go to this movie, Baby Mama. I barely worked in Baby Mama. I have to work one, two days a week. And I just developed a bunch of New York friends. And I'm staying at the Maritime Hotel. And I go down by myself. And I met a little... La Bottega? What is it called? La Bottega, yeah. La Bottega. God, you have good memory. Yeah, Italian restaurant. Italian restaurant with outdoor seating. It's summer of 05, I think, in New York. And I'm sitting out there and the weather's perfect and I eat this fucking beautiful meal and I have this wave come over me. It's such a strong, visceral feeling that I remember so much. And I was just like, you know what? Life is fucking good and I'm going to be okay, man. And let's have some fucking fun in New York City this summer. I had this moment. I left that restaurant. I was like, we're going to have a great time in New York City this summer. And we had a Speaker 2 (18:30) great time in New York City. That's nice to hear. Speaker 3 (18:33) Yes. It was a big part. The environment, the context that you created and the taste of the food and the weather. And Speaker 2 (18:40) I was like, yeah, man, fucking life is still going to be good. That's cool. Yeah, it's funny how I never thought owning clubs and restaurants and hotels. that that would somehow give me an advantage making films. And the thing that I realize now, it all kind of weirdly connects, because there are people that I've met through the years that were involved or stayed at my hotels or ate at my restaurants. I have a Rolodex. And then there's people like Ted Danson, who lives right across the street from me. In Ohio? Yeah. But he also did a film in the Maritime Hotel where they shot this film. And it's just funny, the one degree of separation and the connective tissue. that later helps, because I can pick up the phone and call Alan Cumming to be in Chimp Crazy. You Speaker 4 (19:22) know people. I Speaker 2 (19:23) know people. One more maritime Speaker 4 (19:24) story. Speaker 3 (19:25) I'm staying there. Every morning I wake up, I want a coffee, right? And so every time I call, the operator answers, and then I have to give her my order. She then talks to the kitchen, right? So one of these mornings, I've been there for three weeks, right? And I say to this woman, who I've not talked to every single morning, I say, Listen, I just want you to know I think it's bullshit that you have to deal with my order. And then I can't call directly to room service. And she goes, oh, you think that's bullshit? That's just the beginning. And I go, what do you mean? She goes, I'm in a fucking basement right now. I go, no shit. You're in the basement. We start chatting for a very, very long time. And then she goes, this is fun, but I got to go. I want to have my cigarette break. I go, okay, I'll come down and join you. I go out in the front of the hotel. I start talking to this woman and I learned she's a writer for Vice. And she tells me she has a book and I get the book. It's called Dear Diary. And then her hero is Amy Poehler. So I bring her book to set on Baby Mama. I give it to Amy. That becomes a connection. She then ends up writing on girls. She then created her own TV show on Netflix. This woman, Leslie Arfin, who's incredible, who was the operator at your hotel, who I developed this lifelong. It turned out we were both sober. Speaker 2 (20:39) Yeah. Speaker 3 (20:39) And yeah, another crazy thing. Well, yeah. I had Speaker 2 (20:42) Zoe Cassavetes working down there. John Cassavetes' daughter for a while. Yeah. It's funny how that works. And they are working. I'm so inhumane to my staff. Now our hotel offices are also in the basement. Well, for real estate, it's a premium. Speaker 4 (20:58) Okay, sorry, let's talk about the Bowery. Oh Speaker 3 (21:00) my God, Speaker 4 (21:00) I love it so much. I was just there. A couple weeks ago, I was just there. That's my hotel. That's Speaker 3 (21:05) her home base. Well, I can hook you up next time, Monica. Oh, my. Speaker 4 (21:09) Oh, we had a whole. I want to tell him. Speaker 3 (21:11) Okay, great. Speaker 4 (21:12) Okay, so I have to apologize to you, I suppose. Speaker 1 (21:15) Sure. I Speaker 4 (21:15) have an apology to make, an immense. So the keys at the Bowery are amazing. The Fobbs. They're Speaker 3 (21:21) legendary. Speaker 4 (21:21) Yes, exactly, the Fobbs. For people who don't know, they're this big tassel. Your number, hotel room number is carved onto the brass. It's beautiful, okay? I like items. Speaker 2 (21:33) So you stole the fob? Speaker 4 (21:35) I didn't. I didn't. I kind of did. Okay. So I was in room 1111. Very, very auspicious. Very, very. That's my lucky number. I'm always seeing 1111. I get that room. And I was like, I have to have this tassel. Like, I don't know. how I'm going to get it, but I have to. Now Speaker 2 (21:53) be careful because what happens at the Bowery stays at the Bowery, Monica, so don't say anything too... Well, I've already said Speaker 4 (21:58) it. Speaker 2 (21:58) Unfortunately, this whole story is known to all the listeners. Unfortunately, everybody knows. Speaker 4 (22:02) I'm not good at keeping secrets, but I'm also not good at stealing. So I did go up to the front desk and I said, how do I have this? I will buy it. I would like to buy it. How do I do that? And they're like, they're not for sale, but if they are taken... We charge this amount some Speaker 2 (22:18) ridiculous number. Yeah, and I was like, thank Speaker 4 (22:20) you for telling me that We Speaker 2 (22:22) try to trick people into taking them so we can charge It's Speaker 1 (22:30) a Speaker 2 (22:30) real way we profit on the power of Speaker 3 (22:32) the Speaker 2 (22:33) margins I'm shameless right now plugging my other hotel a hotel in Ojai called Hotel El Roblar And we have these brass cowboy hats on the fobs and everyone wants the brass cowboy hat and they do take them All the time, and we do have to charge. Speaker 4 (22:48) Yeah, I'm going to do that. You have to. I Speaker 2 (22:50) do Speaker 4 (22:50) want to go there. You have to. That's been on my Instagram algorithm. I Speaker 3 (22:53) was looking at it this morning, and it's gorgeous. And my wife has stayed at your tortoise place. Oh. Speaker 4 (22:58) Oh, the conservator. Speaker 2 (23:00) Right? Speaker 3 (23:00) Is that not yours? It Speaker 2 (23:02) is. Yeah. I have a hotel for tortoises. As well. In Ojai as well. And I'm much better at tortoise hospitality than human hospitality. They get pampered really well. Speaker 4 (23:12) You are not. The hospitality at those hotels are incredible. Incredible. I can't believe this. This is very good. Speaker 2 (23:17) This Speaker 4 (23:17) is Speaker 2 (23:17) great. But let me just tell you one last thing about hotels. Owning hotels, the thing that you learn is what do you do when someone commits suicide? What do you do with all these weird things that happen in hotels? So there's this whole thing we don't talk about when you own hotels. When do most people have sex? It's Friday afternoons when people are cheating on their wives. And between the hours of like 8 p.m. and midnight, you can hear. the cacophony of sexual activity when you walk down the hallways. And so there's all these sort of things that we, and I shouldn't be saying anything. No, this is fantastic. I'll keep my mouth shut about what happens in hotels, but it's very interesting. Speaker 3 (23:52) My grandparents owned the roadside motel on the border of Indiana and Michigan growing up, and I would go there for the summer. It was called the Colonial Motor Inn. My sweet, sweet grandmother, who was very tiny, The amount of dead bodies she found in her tenure of running the Colonial. Like, every time I saw my grandma, I'd be like, how many dead bodies have you found since I saw you? Because people do go to hotels. to end their lives. Speaker 2 (24:15) And it's Speaker 3 (24:16) a Speaker 2 (24:16) whole thing, by the way, because your housekeeping won't go into those rooms until you have someone come, usually a priest, and bless the room and cleanse the room. And there's a whole thing about, you know, the shining, kind of like that kind of thing. Like, oh, is this hotel haunted? You can get that rumor of a haunted hotel, the Maritime. Maritime. I was just going to say. You Speaker 3 (24:35) said Speaker 2 (24:35) that, and it's like... I'm sitting there for like Speaker 3 (24:37) a couple of weeks, and people just start telling me these ghost stories about the Maritime. And one of them was a woman woke up and a ghost was having sex with her. Speaker 4 (24:45) Oh, my God. I Speaker 3 (24:46) said, what was your reaction? She goes, I was terrified. And I'm like, I would be so fucking delighted if I woke up. Speaker 2 (24:52) Well, that's one of the amenities that we offer at the Maritime. The ghost sex interaction is one of Speaker 4 (24:58) the most Speaker 2 (24:58) popular. Speaker 4 (25:00) Wow, what a life. So, yeah, that Speaker 3 (25:02) chapter was pretty long. What are the borders of that chapter where that was your full focus before you really start getting into conservation and stuff? Speaker 2 (25:09) Yeah, like you said earlier, I like to figure something out and, you know, you kind of crack the code and you do it and then you don't want to just keep doing the same thing over and over again. So the progression was the hotels were great. It afforded me resources to do other things. I made some money. Clubs are ephemeral. I didn't really make money, but it was fun in my youth. And after a while, I had a few hotels. And then I started thinking, what's next? You know, life is short. And I kind of... always was a closeted reptile guy and turtle guy in New York and never really spoke about that love affair that I would have. Did you have a bunch in your apartment? I did, and girlfriends would always be kind of like, oh my God, what are you living with? Why is most of the apartment filled with these reptiles and tortoises? And do you Speaker 3 (25:53) not think there's a little bit of a smell when you have those aquariums? Yeah, I Speaker 2 (25:57) started feeling a little bit like goats in the apartment. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (26:00) The Speaker 2 (26:00) tortoises were big and they grew. But listen, that was an indelible love affair since I was a kid. Did you have any hijinks? Like, did any reptiles get loose ever? Yeah, of course. Yeah, it's their nature. I mean, listen, I don't recommend this to people, but in the early days, you know, we had themes at this club I owned in the early