Chris Young (on being sentenced to life in prison)

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard - Armchair Umbrella

Chris Young, author and public speaker, shares his powerful memoir 'The Wound is Where the Light Enters,' detailing his journey of serving t

Key takeaways

• Resilience can emerge from profound suffering when paired with introspection and purpose.
• Sickle cell anemia is a genetic condition causing severe pain crises triggered by dehydration, stress, and inflammation.

Main topics

• Life imprisonment for a nonviolent crime
• Sickle cell anemia and its impact on daily life

Notable quotes

"The body said, I need to reset. And if I put your ass in the hospital, you ain't got no choice but to reset."

"Your red blood cells go from a circle shape to a sickle shape. And that hooked form of your blood cells makes them get clogged and occluded in your veins, which makes your body hurt."

Conclusion

Chris Young's story exemplifies the transformative power of resilience,

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. I'm Dak Shepard, and this is Lily Padman, everybody. Everybody, it's me. Welcome, everybody. This is the most inspirational episode of the year. Oh, my goodness. Fuck, am I delighted we got to meet this young man. To me, he's a young man. Chris Young, craziest story ever. Chris Young is an author and a public speaker. And he has a memoir out now called The Wound is Where the Light Enters about serving two life sentences for something he did at 22. Yes. That was nonviolent. Yeah. It's an incredible story. It's so inspiring. It's very Viktor Frankl, Man's Search for Meaning. It's really important. Speaker 3 (0:50) It is. I agree. Please listen to this one. Speaker 2 (0:52) Yeah. Please enjoy Chris Young. Speaker 1 (1:13) All right, Speaker 2 (1:14) brother. Dax, nice to meet you. Speaker 1 (1:16) Oh, Speaker 2 (1:17) so excited. You smell delightful. Hi. Were you offered everything? You want coffee? That's all Speaker 1 (1:22) right. I'll try to drink a gallon a day. Speaker 1 (1:26) No, Speaker 2 (1:28) no. A gallon a day? Wow. Speaker 1 (1:30) How Speaker 2 (1:30) do Speaker 1 (1:30) you break Speaker 2 (1:31) that up? Speaker 1 (1:31) Carrying a gallon jug of water. You do? Yeah. And would people ask Speaker 2 (1:35) you questions when you got the gallon? Speaker 1 (1:36) It's funny you say that because I used to be embarrassed when I first started, but I knew it was the most convenient and efficient way for me to get what I needed in me. Yeah, yeah. And so after a while, I got past it because it was a conversation starter. Right. Speaker 2 (1:48) I carried around a gallon of water in high school. This is the most hillbilly thing I ever did. We had well water. like anyone else's water. So everywhere I went, I had a fucking gallon of water. And I was going, it looks so bizarre. And people hate well water. Speaker 3 (2:01) What does it taste like? Speaker 2 (2:03) It's Speaker 1 (2:03) like more minerally, Speaker 2 (2:04) you Speaker 1 (2:05) know? Like you can taste it more. Yeah. You had only city water? I try not to drink tap water at all because I went so long of drinking nothing but tap water. Oh, yeah, your prison water? Exactly. It's going Speaker 3 (2:15) to Speaker 1 (2:15) be darker than tap water. But I know what you mean because when I drink beet juice, I feel like I can taste the earth. Speaker 3 (2:22) Uh-huh, yeah. And Speaker 1 (2:23) I like to drink it on purpose because it helps with the red blood cells and me having sickle cell. Yeah, explain Speaker 2 (2:28) sickle cell to everybody. Speaker 1 (2:30) Sickle cell anemia is a genetic mutation that the body was attempting to adapt to malaria and prevent from having to deal with the effects of malaria. It affects mainly people from Mediterranean areas or African descent. Because it's genetic, you have to be born with it. And I have the form that... is called SC. You have SS and you have SC. Each form affects the patients totally different. But what sickle cell is, simple and plain. Your red blood cells go from a circle shape to a sickle shape. And that hooked form of your blood cells makes them get clogged and occluded in your veins, which makes your body hurt. Imagine your blood not flowing, not pumping. It's like... you got oil clogged up in your engine. Your engine is going to get to coughing. Your muffler is going to get to letting out black smoke. But this is happening with your body. Speaker 2 (3:23) And Speaker 1 (3:24) sickle cell is interesting in that instead of being dominant Speaker 2 (3:27) or recessive, it's co-dominant. So if mom has the healthy gene and dad has this co-dominant sickle cell, you can make a split. Normally, one gene is going to be prevalent and you'll make all sickle all normal. But this one allows you to make some sickled and some non. And when people have both of those recessive and then they make an only sickle cell, then they're really in trouble. Yeah, exactly. Because you can have Speaker 1 (3:52) the trait. You don't have the full disease, but you can still have some of the consequences, as he was just saying. And that's what Dax was explaining. But when you have the full disease, it's because both parents had the trait, such is my case. Both of my parents had the trait. So I got the full disease. I Speaker 2 (4:06) didn't realize until reading your book that you can have spells of it. Like it comes on and goes off. Like you have different periods where it's kind of what we would think of as inflamed. What causes those? And how Speaker 1 (4:17) long did those periods last? So in the lexicon and parlance of people that's dealing with it, we call them attacks. Okay. But the professionals call them crises. Okay. So the sickle cell crisis can be triggered by anything such as dehydration. It can be triggered by... Stress? So you took the words out Speaker 2 (4:36) of Speaker 1 (4:36) my mouth. Oh, sorry, sorry, sorry. No, no, no. Actually, I was going to make that last because that has been my biggest trigger. I literally just got over a severe crisis where I had to get exchange blood transfusion. And that is basically they suck a lot of my blood out and put in somebody else's blood because my body wouldn't stop creating the sickle blood. And I really don't have the crises as frequently as other people, but I've had really extreme consequences from it. Both of my hips are fake. No. And I need to get my shoulders replaced also. Because the joints have deteriorated so much from that. Exactly. Because your body, her body, anybody's body, when you need new red blood cells, it takes it from the marrow in your bone. Not to mention when the blood's not flowing, now the bone is not getting oxygen and blood flow. So it's two different ways that it's leading to deterioration. I think the triggers and catalysts of stress will always be there to the extent that you stress. It's up to you. Yeah, how am I managing that stress? Exactly, exactly. And so with me this past two months, because I'm a strong believer in the power of the mind, mentally I was on top of everything. But eventually that energy of having to wrestle with them thoughts. will manifest. And my body was like, hey, you know what? You know what? Fuck you. That's what your body said. Exactly. Hey, Speaker 2 (5:55) fuck Speaker 1 (5:55) you. We're going to take you down for a minute. That part. The body said, I need to reset. And if I put your ass in the hospital, you ain't got no choice but to reset. Yeah, Speaker 2 (6:03) the body weirdly protects you sometimes, even when it feels like it's trying to kill you. How long will the crises or attacks last? Or when you were a kid, how long would they last? When Speaker 1 (6:12) I was a child, they would last two, three days, and it would be nonstop pain. because the blood's not flowing. So I can't move. I'm running a fever because technically I'm inflamed in my whole body because the blood's not flowing. So that leads to inflammation and it leads to a fever. I would just cry. Imagine a child who is living with technically a stranger. As much as I love Big Mama, I got adopted by an older lady in our neighborhood that everyone revered and called Big Mama. So Big Mama adopted me and my brother. I was 10 years old. He was 13. And... She already had six kids living with her. So it's nine of us in an 800-square-foot house. Speaker 3 (6:48) Oh, my God. Speaker 1 (6:49) So each of you got less than 100 square feet. Exactly. And so I'm sitting there crying, wishing I had my mama, wishing I had a daddy, because I never knew my biological father. Never even seen a picture of him. Never met him. But my mother's husband, he did try. And when they divorced, that's when my mama really just spiraled out of control. And Speaker 2 (7:08) she Speaker 1 (7:08) was in root, which helped with Speaker 2 (7:10) the dissolving. Exactly. Unfortunately, she was already addicted. Clarksville, Tennessee. We just built a house on the Cumberland River two years ago. So Speaker 1 (7:18) it runs through your backyard, the Cumberland? It does, it does. Where is it in the state? Is it east of Nashville or west? We're northwest. Just barely northwest, though. It's more just straight north. We're... 45 minutes if you drive the speed limit, but I've gotten from Nashville to Clarksville in 30 minutes. Speaker 2 (7:34) Okay. And are you getting close to Kentucky at that point? We're actually on the Tennessee Speaker 1 (7:37) -Kentucky state line. Oh, no kidding. Yes. Is Bowling Green on the other side? Bowling Green's middle Kentucky, so it's more northeastern of Clarksville. Got you. And I actually was already making memories in Bowling Green from being a young promiscuous man, but I had to sit in their county jail for four years. Speaker 3 (7:55) Oh, my God. Wait, in Bowling Green? Speaker 1 (7:57) Yes. Oh, no kidding. Because they have a contract with the marshals. And so when I was being held to go back and forth to federal court, I was in Warren County Regional Jail in Bowling Green, Kentucky. Speaker 2 (8:08) And I can't imagine there were any field trips to the Corvette Speaker 1 (8:10) Museum. used to look out the window and just see the sign and just be yearning for a day to not only drive any car, it could be a Honda Civic, Speaker 2 (8:17) let alone a Corvette. So from zero to two, it's just you and your older brother, Robert, right? He's two years older than you? Three years, yes. So at two or three, y'all move in with Mickey and mom starts dating him. You guys move from downtown Clarksville and some projects to kind of a nice area in the north side? Speaker 1 (8:37) Yes. Speaker 2 (8:38) So tell me about Mickey. What kind of Speaker 1 (8:39) dude was he? Mickey was the sail on the boat amongst the storm, giving us still some stability and some direction. Unfortunately, because the captain of the boat likes to make sure all the sailors listen, he was controlling to an extent that as a child I couldn't perceive it as that. I just understood that everybody's complaining about Mama. What is Mama doing so wrong? But then I'm also seeing that... When they're complaining about mama, Mickey wants to complain with his fist. So to this day, I consider Mickey my daddy, the only man that ever tried. So I love and revere him for giving an effort. I'm not his biological child. He could have said F me even when they started dating, not to mention once they got divorced. Because even though they got divorced and we moved and went through all the hardships we went through, people gossip. And once the gossip got around that it was being so hard on us, that I was going to school with holes in my shoes, that I was going to school with too little or too big clothes. Not only did my brother push his pride to the side and reach out to Mickey, Mickey had made it possible for them to communicate. And he came back around and he was trying to help. Speaker 2 (9:53) Yeah, he was a dude who worked at the post office, right? He never missed a day of work. His car broke. He walked five miles. So in some ways, yeah, he's like a rock. And then clearly he's in over his head with this relationship and everything else that's going on. And he doesn't act his best. And yeah, it starts to get violent. Your mom was kind of a badass, right? In her day. Speaker 1 (10:15) Yeah. She was blessed to have a father who got his hustle on. My granddaddy was about his business and he got to the money. You know, my granddaddy had successful funeral home. But then he bought and acquired other funeral homes and then other small businesses, just trying to pursue all his entrepreneurial instincts. And so my grandfather made sure my mother was raised in a good environment. And at the same time, good environment, that line gets blurred. due to the fact this is the 60s and the 70s, so black people are only allowed in certain areas. And so he got money, but you want to interact with who you're allowed to interact with, which is other black people, so you're going to be in the hood. You're going to be around certain things. And so by the time cocaine and crack came along, my mother's the pretty girl who all the hustlers are hollering at, everybody's flirting with, and she let fun become something that ruined her. Speaker 2 (11:12) Yeah, but Speaker 1 (11:13) she was tough. She liked to fight. Speaker 2 (11:15) She was hellbent on repeating to you guys, you shouldn't ever let anyone put their hands on you. So after one of these beatings, and you're present for it, she grabs a butcher knife, Speaker 1 (11:25) and what happens? Yeah, so I forgot to shout out my grandmother. I'm named after my maternal grandmother, Miss Christine Hooker. And Christine was known to gamble and carry a knife and a gun. And my mama learned from her. My mama named me after my grandmother. She died on my mother's 21st birthday. She died from cancer on mama's birthday, January 27th, 1984. And so grandmama had always taught mama to protect yourself no matter what. If you can't whoop them with your hands, you grab a weapon. And that's something that mama embraced wholeheartedly. And so one morning... Her and Mickey had been going back and forth, and she said, you know what, I ain't taking no more slaps or punches. I'm finna kill him. And she pulled me and Robert together. We crying, screaming. She's hugging us. And also telling us, shut up. And telling us, suck it up. And when you hear us get into it, when you hear the tussle, go call your granddaddy. And tell him I killed Mickey. Exactly. Wow. Verbatim. Meaning. Speaker 3 (12:26) Oh, my God. This is Speaker 1 (12:27) what's coming, y'all. Speaker 3 (12:28) I know. And are you guys like, no, don't do that. And you're what, five and eight Speaker 1 (12:32) at this time? I'm about seven because this is the last episode. So I'm seven and my brother's ten. And so imagine seeing your mother already whelped up, bruised up, a little bloody. And she's telling you, I'm Speaker 2 (12:44) going Speaker 1 (12:44) to murder somebody that you love. I love Mickey. Everything's so fucking confusing. Exactly. It's complex. It's like, wait, no, Mickey's a good dude, but how is he also hitting my mom? Like trying to make peace with this. Exactly. Preach. Imagine a child trying to sort these thoughts out. And then this is happening in real time. So you don't have the space to be patient, to organize the thoughts. You got to react. And in that moment of reacting, when we seen her storm out and then we also heard the scream afterwards, we knew she carried out her promise. But by the time I hit the corner. I see blood dripping down Mickey, but I also see him stomping the hell out of her. I see a grown man's foot coming up and down. And my brother Robert, being the braver one, the older one, he took off running towards the fight. I took off running out the door. Speaker 2 (13:37) Yeah, mine was like watching, completely paralyzed with fear, thinking, oh, wow, she's going to die. That's a real specific moment. And dad's already gone, so where are we going? You know, where are we going when the dust settles from this? And just the deep fucking emasculation of wanting to protect my mom and not having the courage or size or strength has set me on a fucking trajectory for the rest of my life. Speaker 1 (14:03) I mean, I'm still dealing with that moment. Them inner child wounds. Yeah, I'm glad that you're conscious of them to heal from them. But I wasn't for a long time. So like you said, that feeling helpless, that feeling emasculated. But then also knowing that I am a man and knowing I do have the nuts to stand up, it led me to taking what Master P. was rapping about as not only a real fact of life, but it was also entertainment to me, embodying it and naming myself Soulja and literally being on the front lines every time. And Speaker 2 (14:34) is the C, you were Soulja C. Soulja C, was that for Chris? Yes. Okay. And Soulja for the people at home is spelled S-O-U-L-J. A. Speaker 1 (14:45) It's Speaker 2 (14:45) like Speaker 3 (14:45) Soulja Boy. But Speaker 1 (14:47) I was before him. I'm older than him, and I was naming myself that before Speaker 3 (14:51) him. You started it. You Speaker 1 (14:54) know, when he came out, you know, I used to get in the club and nod my head, but I used to be like, I hate the fact that he's famous and I'm not. Speaker 2 (15:02) I Speaker 1 (15:03) was a young man. I didn't know no better. But, yeah, when I got older, I realized that. I am is the most powerful thought that you can have. I am thought. Because then whatever you follow that I am with, you are literally manifesting it because you will embrace that mentality. And your mentality equals your reality. So me saying I'm a soldier, I am literally putting myself in harm's way because I'm saying I'm willing to ride. Whatever the situation is, let's go. But I realized also I was spelling it a certain way because I was putting my soul. and my whole heart and my whole being into anything I was choosing. So I had to finally realize, okay. Speaker 2 (15:45) There's the Speaker 1 (15:46) added shame Speaker 2 (15:47) of when you're that fucking family on the street. That Speaker 1 (15:50) embarrassment, that shame. The spectacle. Exactly. When you know you're the fucking spectacle on the street. Exactly. You're Speaker 2 (15:58) trying to, like, make friends and get girls, and, like, you're the fucking house on the block. Speaker 1 (16:02) It's funny you say that exactly how you say that, because making friends in an environment where you're the butt of the joke most of the time is a hell of a... complex situation. Like, now that I'm older and I have tried to heal from a lot of things, when I talk with my fiance, she's like, you got bullied. And, you know, in my mind, I didn't look at it like that. And then some of them say... Because Speaker 2 (16:25) that's Speaker 1 (16:25) weak to get bullied. Exactly. And in my mind, those same guys are now my brothers, too. But when you're going around with holes in your shoes and you musky and you stinky, kids don't know no better. They're just like, oh, you stink. Ha ha ha. I'll look at your shoes. Yeah. Your mom's a crackhead. That's a funny joke for kids. That was the biggest joke. That led to my first fight in school. I'll never forget his name. I'm not going to say his name, but he was a heavyset white guy, and he literally happened to just see my mom one day, and he wouldn't let it go. And we're sitting at lunch, and another guy cracking jokes, and he said, your mom's a big, fat bitch. And bop, I hit him so hard, blood just started oozing down his nose. That was a guy I didn't have to see every day. The guys in my neighborhood, I got to see every day. And they also are the same guys that I kind of look up to, I kind of love. But I also know they supply my mama with drugs. Yeah. Speaker 3 (17:19) God, it's so complicated. So Speaker 1 (17:21) that transition from, Speaker 2 (17:22) I don't know, it's not clearly detailed in the book, but clearly mom partied here and there. But there becomes this period where your mom misses. The project. She misses downtown. You guys are in a nice kind of area, but she misses it. So you guys always hang out at your uncle's baby mama's house. Speaker 1 (17:40) Yeah. Speaker 2 (17:40) Ree? Yep. It's a good time there, right? You go downtown. There's kids everywhere. There's family members. The ladies are playing cards. And you start noticing, like, mom's not playing cards with everyone. She's out. And do you remember at that age? I know it's hard to remember, but. Were you theorizing like what was going on or are you just not overthinking it? Speaker 1 (18:00) Yes. I actually asked my cousin Kudas, who's Ree's son, and he was eight years older than me. I'm six, seven, eight. So he's 14, 15, 16. And my brother's three years older than me. So my brother's nine, 10, 11. And we're on the bed listening to music, playing a video game. And I said, what's that shit? That shit, that phrase right there is what I always heard the adults mention when they was negatively talking about my Speaker 2 (18:29) mother. Speaker 1 (18:29) That she was chasing that shit. She's chasing that shit. And I was like, what's that shit? Because I'm more than one where she's at. She's not in there. Like you said, everybody's in there playing cards, listening to music, and she's gone. And every time they would always say, she gone chasing that shit. That girl gonna let that shit ruin her. That girl got that shit on her mind so bad she ain't even here for these kids. So I didn't theorize. Speaker 1 (18:54) I asked a question. I didn't realize it at the time, but I was inquisitive, and I didn't know how to embrace that. I just knew people would tell me, shut the hell up. You're asking too many questions. Be quiet. Drugs is a big concept, too, when you're young. That's why now that I'm free, and not only free, but have some good things going for me, I never hold anything against anyone, but I haven't forgotten anything about anyone. And so a lot of... adults and a lot of people want to come back around as if, you know, I'm your uncle or I'm your cousin or, you know, you wasn't when I was living with no electricity, no running water. You wasn't when I was incarcerated with two life sentences. So, you know, I'm not mad at you, but it's a convenient time for you to be involved. But now it's easy. So did Speaker 3 (19:42) he tell you he said it's drugs? Speaker 1 (19:45) No. They told me quit cussing. Speaker 3 (19:48) Yeah, Speaker 1 (19:49) my cousin was like, boy, watch your mouth. And my brother punched me. That was his way of trying to give me an order. He would punch me in my arm. Quit hitting me. That's the first thing that would come out of my mouth. But I'm still wondering, what is that shit? Nobody told me Speaker 2 (20:02) what that shit is. You're constantly in these situations where... People are talking terribly about your mother. And even if you know it all about your mother, it hurts so bad. Your grandpa would talk really shitty about your mom. Speaker 1 (20:15) Yeah. His daughter. As much as I revere my grandfather for his entrepreneurial skills and for his material things, him as a person, I was too young. to really get a chance to know. I knew him well enough where I was sad when he passed. I knew him well enough where this is granddaddy and I feel a sense of excitement when he comes around. In pride, he's your grandma. He's a big dog. He's the king Speaker 2 (20:42) of fucking Clarkston. But Speaker 1 (20:44) I never knew him enough to make a conscious decision where you're like, I'm not going to be around my grandfather no more. The person I did do that with that was candid in a way that I hated was Big Mama. One day, after I'm having one of my sickle cell crises, the kids that we live with, that I perceive as cousins now, but back then they just people we live with, they're picking on me. They're talking and laughing about, oh, Robert, help me. Mama, I want my mama. Speaker 2 (21:13) Aw. Speaker 1 (21:14) Kids are Speaker 3 (21:15) fucking cruel. So cruel. Kids can be Speaker 1 (21:19) cruel, yeah. And they're making fun of me for calling for my mama. And I'm like. you couldn't deal with that pain. If you had to go through a sickle cell attack, you couldn't deal with the pain. And in their mind, they like, I'm not even talking about the pain. I'm talking about you calling for Penny. Penny's not here. You know she's not here. But I'm a child. And this is my source of... my source of protection for so many years, and now that's gone, now that's stripped away from me, no matter how many years I've watched her decline, I just know now that I'm in this moment of pain, I need someone. And for years, that had been that person. And when the kids are making fun of me, I go to fight one of them. I go to stand up. I'm finna run over there. And Big Mama must have been close listening. She hit the corner. She grabbed me. They right. I don't know what the fuck you're calling for your mama for. If she wanted you, you would be with her. She don't want you. Speaker 3 (22:08) God. Speaker 1 (22:09) And I got to crying. I got so mad. I wanted to fight Big Mama so bad. Yeah, it's so hurtful. And I've hated Big Mama for so many years. And she Speaker 2 (22:17) thinks she's helping you move past it. And accept reality. In her mind, it's like, this is the reality. If your mama wanted you, you wouldn't be with me. That's not a reality we ever need to. Speaker 3 (22:28) It's also not real. Speaker 2 (22:29) No. It's Speaker 3 (22:30) so much more nuanced than that. Thank you. You're right. Like, it's not like, oh, she doesn't want you. So that's why she. No, she's an addict. There's so much to it. Speaker 2 (22:38) Major terminal disease. Speaker 3 (22:41) Yes, exactly. Speaker 2 (22:42) That she's going to choose over herself. So, yeah. Thank you. She's going to choose it Speaker 1 (22:46) over everything. You said it best. Speaker 2 (22:48) Yeah, as an addict, I know people are like, they're confused by. People not showing up for their family, like, wow, you choose your addiction over your family. It's like, well, y'all, I choose it over myself. Exactly. I'm killing myself. I already declared I'm going to destroy this thing. So you're shocked that I also, yeah, I mean, that's Speaker 1 (23:07) where we're at. If I'm imploding, you can only imagine if you around me, you're going to get this blast. You're going to be a part of this. But Big Mama was my anchor, my rock, my foundation. She was my heart. Speaker 2 (23:19) What were the events that led you live in there? Mama and Mickey, Speaker 1 (23:22) she stabs Mickey. Mickey beats her up. I go call the police. By the time the police come, they arrest her. And I'm like, what? I'm panicking. I'm like, I called y'all. He's beating her up. She used a weapon. She's going Speaker 2 (23:36) to jail. She Speaker 1 (23:37) go to jail. We go with my granddaddy for a few days. You know, they eventually make her bond. And my granddaddy had gifted my mother a house. This house happened to be in the middle of the hood, though. We get to live in there. And that's when mama really just spiraled out of control. And she quit paying the bills. The lights and water get cut off. And she had another boyfriend that lived in an even smaller house that beat her ass even worse than Mickey. This is Roger? Yes. And Roger was Speaker 2 (24:07) fucking enormous, right? Exactly. He's Speaker 1 (24:09) like Speaker 2 (24:09) 280, 5'10". He looks like a linebacker. He works for the city. You Speaker 1 (24:12) took the words right out of my mouth. He's literally the spitting image of... Emmitt Smith in the face and about the size of Brian Urlacher back in the day. Speaker 2 (24:25) Uh-huh, uh-huh. Just a monster. But he's partying, but he's still going to work. I mean, he's got a Speaker 1 (24:30) constitution, though. Roger was a functioning addict to the point where he ain't going to miss work. After work, he's going to get drunk. He's going to get high. He's drunk to the point he's falling around. But somehow he's going to get up and clock in when it's time to go to work. Speaker 2 (24:46) And so, you know, that relationship was very abusive. And same thing. She stabbed him, too. Yes. Speaker 1 (24:50) Oh, wow. Speaker 2 (24:51) Yes. Narrowly avoided getting arrested that time. Speaker 1 (24:53) Yeah, but they still issued the warrant. After me and Robert cried and screamed enough, the empathy kicked in. And they was like, you know, go handle them. You got to do something with these kids. But just know that you do have a warrant for your arrest. Turn yourself in tomorrow morning. Yeah. Speaker 2 (25:08) Which Speaker 1 (25:08) she Speaker 2 (25:08) did Speaker 1 (25:08) not do. And we moved back to her house with no lights and no water. For Speaker 2 (25:12) two years you guys lived in that house? Speaker 1 (25:14) Yes. With no lights and no water? Yeah. Speaker 3 (25:16) Just you two? No, my mother was there, but Speaker 1 (25:19) she wasn't there. Right, right. She was there physically when she needed to be, and she wasn't there, none, mentally. Speaker 3 (25:25) No water for two years? Speaker 1 (25:27) Yes. Can you imagine if you wake up in the middle of the night? Not only is there no lights, but I got smart enough I started carrying a lighter in my pocket. So I can strike my lighter to get to the bathroom, but I got to preemptively cover my nose because when I lift the lid of this toilet, it's three people's feces from Speaker 2 (25:46) three Speaker 1 (25:47) different days of using the toilet. And dudes Speaker 2 (25:49) are Speaker 1 (25:50) in and out of that Speaker 2 (25:50) place probably partying with Speaker 1 (25:52) mom or no? I know this is not the best nomenclature, and I don't use this phrase now, but we call them smokers. So, yes, people that got high, like my mom, they would come and get high with her. Take a shit in your toilet with no water. So the house was very derelict and very wretched. And Big Mama, the older lady in our neighborhood that everybody already loved and knew, she came one day, and she was like, you know, y'all going to go with me? And Mama was like, yeah. I'm like, for how long? And big mama was like, for how long you need to? And I'm like, nah, for how long? I don't want to be away from my mama. As much as I'm mad at mama, as much as I hate what she's choosing, this is still mama. You have a primal connection to your mother because whether you're aware of it or not, you're literally the division of herself. Speaker 3 (26:41) You're of her, yes. Speaker 1 (26:42) Yeah, Speaker 2 (26:42) yeah, yeah, yeah. And you just love Robert, and he's such a fucking sweet brother, and he's got way too much on his shoulders. And again, reading his story made me so sympathetic to my older brother, too. It's like, they're doing everything you're doing, and then also they have on their shoulders that they're the father. Exactly. Like, they got to be your father, too. Speaker 1 (27:00) Man. Speaker 2 (27:00) I'm writing a memoir myself, and I text my brother after having to write some passage about him, and I just wrote him, and I said, dude, you did such a good job. Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah. And then he called me crying and I was like, oh shit. He's been waiting to hear that for a while. But it's good that you got to the point where you did Speaker 1 (27:17) it. Speaker 2 (27:18) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because some Speaker 1 (27:19) people get to that point and skip it and don't realize to embrace the moment. Well, I was just, I'm locked into my own experience, Speaker 2 (27:24) but it's like you just did it, right? It's like forcing to tell other people's story in your story. forces empathy onto you, forces perspective. Like, when you really got to sit there and think, like, oh, fuck, what was Robert thinking about in this situation? All those things, plus he got to protect you. He's watching mom get beat to death, and she just stabbed somebody. And Speaker 1 (27:43) you're in the mix, and he's responsible for you. He got to think about, man, Chris needs something to eat tonight. Yeah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (27:49) I'm Speaker 1 (27:49) thinking, I'm hungry. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 3 (27:52) Exactly. Speaker 2 (27:53) And you ain't thinking about anybody else's hunger but Chris's. Exactly. Exactly. Because you're the baby. And Speaker 1 (27:57) so... I'm here to be vulnerable. I'm here to be candid. But my mother's brother, with me being free now and me living a certain way now, he wanted to come back into my life. And that's cool. I don't have nothing against you. But within it, he wanted to try to dictate. a celebration that me and my fiance just had and invite people that we weren't inviting. And he's like, we're their family. I'm like, no, they're not family. We might share some DNA somewhere, but family is a verb. They've never treated me like family. I could care less about that DNA. Weirdly, Speaker 2 (28:27) Mickey Speaker 1 (28:28) was more of a family. Thank you, Mickey. And we shared no DNA. And Mickey was definitely more family. And I brought that up because I had to kind of check my uncle. And as I'm checking him, In the midst of it, he happened to say something negative about Robert. And I'm like, hey, hold on. You never can understand what that man went through. Because one, you had a mama and a daddy. That had money. Exactly. This man didn't have a mama nor a daddy, and on top of that, had to look out for me, then turn around and make it a child himself when he was 16. That's a lot for a young man. Not to mention, then he jumped in the streets, and that come with his own set of circumstances. I just want to mention quickly, you are a great student, though, throughout all this. Thank you. I appreciate you for thinking that. You're getting A's. Speaker 2 (29:09) You're like the only kid in your group that can be reporting that you're Speaker 1 (29:12) getting Speaker 2 (29:12) A's. And people are like, how is he getting Speaker 1 (29:14) A's? Yeah. Speaker 2 (29:18) Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare. We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. Not checking your gas gauge before hitting the road? You genuinely thought you could make it? You were wrong. That's a very long stretch of highway where you learned exactly how far fumes can take you. And it's not far enough. Yeah, checking first is an excellent plan. So check Allstate first for an auto quote. It could save you hundreds. And for fast, reliable help when you need it, add an Allstate Roadside Plan today. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary. Insurance and roadside assistance plans are subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Insurance provided by Allstate North America Insurance Company, Northbrook, Illinois. Roadside assistance plans provided by Allstate Motor Club, incorporated in Allstate Affiliate. Speaker 2 (30:15) When does Robert start getting sucked into street life, and then when do you start? What's that trajectory? The murder Speaker 1 (30:22) of my cousin Kudas. When Kudas got murdered, I was 10, and Robert was 13, and that's when I consciously knew, okay, he smokes weed because he didn't want to go to the firm with us. He wanted to ride with the older guys, the other guys, because, you know, they was going to smoke weed, listen to music, and... When he got to the firm, I noticed, I'm like, he high. I know where weed is by this time, and I'm dabbling, too. I'm a child. I don't got access. He's 13, and he actually has access. Speaker 2 (30:50) He's starting to probably use it to regulate. Self-medicating, exactly. But Speaker 1 (30:55) he also had an interest. He, back then, you know, we didn't have... The weed of today is not the weed of yesterday. Speaker 3 (31:02) And Speaker 1 (31:03) so back then, if you got some dro, as we called it, when you didn't have no seeds and it was asserted, it was actually truly grew with the hydroponic system, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. Speaker 2 (31:11) I Speaker 1 (31:11) said that because most of the time guys are going to have weed with seeds. My brother would take the seeds and actually grow some weed. And a lot of people did that, but I could see he truly had an interest in it. But he's not around anyone that can tell him, hey, you can be a botanist. Right. No one is telling him. He never met anyone that is. Exactly. In biology or anything. Exactly. There's nobody to guide and direct him. Yeah. Except to, hey, you want some money? You need some money? This is how you can get some money. And that is slowly but for sure I started to notice he was selling drugs because he popped up with a new CD player. And I'm green. I'm a child. I'm like, how you get this? And he like, such and such gave it to me. And I'm like, gave it to you? He's like, yeah. I'm not knowing, though. He traded it for some drugs. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. He Speaker 2 (31:59) gave me that. I gave him some weed. Crack. Crack. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 1 (32:05) But Robert jumped in the streets when he was about 13 when I was 11. First time I sold some drugs. And it was just some weed, but that weed slowly but for surely became consistent. And by the time it got consistent, I'm seeing Robert and everybody else in my neighborhood go from being kids with not... As bad attire as I have, but to a little decent attire to not only a little decent attire, now they got cars and not only do they got cars, now they got necklaces and gold teeth. Yeah. And Jordans. Exactly. Can Speaker 3 (32:35) you imagine having control for the first time in your life? Like how intoxicating. We all would do it. That's the thing that's like, it's so frustrating when people are judgmental. No one wouldn't be doing that. Speaker 1 (32:48) Yeah, anyone that wants to survive. Yeah. Anyone who has a survival instinct. Speaker 3 (32:51) And have Speaker 1 (32:51) any opportunity. It'll happen even when you're not realizing you're choosing it. It's like being a castaway stuck at sea. You know you can't drink seawater. You know the salt is in here, but you're dying of thirst. Yeah. And the same way with a child, a teenager. You know you shouldn't sell drugs. You know eventually you might get arrested. Then you're seeing people get arrested. You're like, all right, the odds of me getting arrested is pretty high. you're dying of thirst. No choice. And like you said, you're like, you want to survive. And so eventually you're going to drink this seawater. And then