AA: Care, Diesel
Any Questions? and Any Answers?
The episode of Any Questions? centers on the UK's social care crisis and Andy Burnham's proposal to adjust the pension triple lock starting in 2030 to fund a national care
Key takeaways
- Andy Burnham proposed ending the pension triple lock in 2030 to generate funding for social care free at the point of use.
- The Institute for Fiscal Studies has raised doubts about whether the projected savings will be sufficient to cover systemic care costs.
Main topics
- Social care funding models
- Pension triple lock policy
Notable quotes
We know that Britain wants a five-star service but is only prepared to pay a three-star tax.
Conclusion
The episode highlights the tension between moral imperatives for elder care and the
Transcript preview
Speaker 7 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Speaker 7 (0:09) Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 2 (0:38) Vijay, thank you very much. Good afternoon. Welcome to Any Answers. In his first conference speech as Prime Minister, Andy Burnham promised a national care service free at the point of use. He would pay for it by adjusting the pensions triple lock from 2030. Now, reform says pensioners are being punished. The Institute for Fiscal Studies has questioned whether the savings will be enough. So my question to you this afternoon, who should pay for care in later life? And if you have paid for the care of someone you love, what would have been fair, do you think? And I'd love to hear from people working in the NHS, geriatrics in particular. Do you really actually need a more robust social care system and how much money would it save for the NHS? 03700 100 444 is the number. Diesel has passed £2 a litre for the first time. So we've got war in the Middle East, we've got refinery closures, we've got the threat of a US ban on diesel exports. All of this coming together, all of it. pushing the price higher. Some want more drilling in the North Sea. Others say that only the one lasting answer is to end our dependence on oil and gas altogether. Should rural drivers, though, with no alternative to the car, get some help? at the pump. I'd love to know what it's costing your household or business. 03700 100 444. Hundreds of prisoners in England and Wales have been released early under new sentencing rules designed to ease overcrowding. Ministers promise tagging and tougher supervision. Critics are doubting that the tags are ready. So the question that was posed, why not just simply jail fewer non-violent offenders? Is prison the deterrent it should be, or are we locking up people who could be punished in the community? If you work in the justice system, if you've been the victim of crime, get in touch. 03700 100 444. And finally, the programme came from Grantham this week, the birthplace of Margaret Thatcher. And you might have heard the panel clashing over Andy Burnham's argument that Britain lost its way in the 1980s. Now, he promises greater public control of water. energy, closer ties with Europe and a new voting system. His critics say he's looking back at the 1970s with rose-tinted glasses. So, your thoughts on this? Thatcherism, was it the root of today's problems or the reason Britain recovered? Which side are you on in this? 03700 100 444. And let's start, though, with the subject that most of you want to talk about, and it is that issue of the triple lock and social care. Debbie Bevan, you're our first caller calling us from Gloucestershire. Hello. Speaker 3 (3:14) Hello. Speaker 3 (3:16) going to call you Alex but you're Anita. Speaker 2 (3:18) You can call me whatever you like I'll answer to most things Debbie to be honest but Anita it is just in case if you're asking yeah. Speaker 3 (3:25) Okay good to hear that any questions is coming to Gloucestershire next week so I'd look out for that. Yes I wanted to talk about the social care system I feel qualified I've I'm only 60 by the way and My husband is now 77. He was diagnosed with a form of Alzheimer's, which tends to come on in your 50s or 60s. And he was 67 when diagnosed. He's had it for 10 years. This word geriatric, by the way, I know we tend to think of needing care when we're in our later life. But to be honest, you know, 67, really not geriatric, very fit man. Speaker 3 (4:12) I know most people are older, so I do understand that. By contrast, actually, I have a 95-year-old father who probably wouldn't consider himself in that category either because he lives at home independently and he's listening at the moment. Speaker 2 (4:27) Anyway, I do feel... So with your husband's example then, I mean, tell me how you managed and what kind of care was available and what are you hoping for the future? Speaker 3 (4:38) OK, I've got really... I really am hoping for the future. future something to say on that So Speaker 3 (4:47) I've also, can I just say, I have also been through a cancer journey since he went into his care home two years ago. So there you go. And the experience I have with the NHS on cancer, absolutely second to none. Thankfully, I've come through it. And so I just got that comparison of dementia and cancer all kind of concentrated within the last two years. So my situation with my husband was I kept him at home for eight years. And that was helped by the fact that I paid for... for carers to come in here and give me like a day off, because it's quite reasonable to have a day off when you're doing a 24-7 job, because there was no other support. Apart from three hours from Gloucestershire carers that I was given after quite a fight, actually, two carers' assessments on that. So that's all you get, three hours break. in 168 hours per week. So three hours break. So I used to sort of take myself off, but quite often I was making phone calls to do with my husband's care. So... There was that. Many, many... Speaker 3 (5:58) which were great because you're basically DIY, teach yourself, be a dementia carer. Fantastic support groups, but you're teaching yourself because there's no other support. Outside of society, brilliant. Speaker 2 (6:10) I mean, Debbie, the picture that you're painting, and it is an intricate picture. We have lots of calls. No, not at all. Don't apologise. But if I can summarise, what you're saying is the social care that was provided to you was not enough. Speaker 3 (6:25) Not enough. Anita, there wasn't any. Because my husband had money in the bank, there was none. He's now spent £200,000, OK? There was no social care because there isn't any, is there? We know that. Speaker 2 (6:36) So then you would seem to be arguing the same way that the Prime Minister is, is that there is a desperate need for some kind of social care covenant. Sorry, I should Speaker 3 (6:45) have summarised it saying... No, no, no, please Speaker 2 (6:47) don't apologise at all. But then how do you feel about... The triple lock coming to an end in 2030 to help pay for this social care system. Are you comfortable with that? Speaker 3 (7:01) Well, the point is about the triple lock. Absolutely. I absolutely agree. And the point is that the pensioners we're talking about, which Richard Tice stands there and saying, you know, poor pensioners are going to lose out. They are the same people. They're the same people that, you know, I'm going to be a pensioner and I'm a bit older. I may well get dementia. I may get it when I'm in my mid-60s. I'm the same person. So I, you know, this sort of taking away with one hand, it goes around in circles. If I don't get quite so much pension, I will then, and then my savings go down. I'll need to go to my local authority anyway to ask it to pay for care. So it's absolutely... support Andy Burnham and take out the triple lock and move it to a moving average on wages, because I was a maths teacher, I get moving averages, brilliant idea, so yes, do that. If that doesn't pay for it, obviously he's going to have to look at taxes, whether that's, this is probably, I'm going to say, a very unpopular thing now, whether it's a penny on income tax or some other sort of tax, maybe some sort of wealth tax, right? But listen, my husband is being wealth taxed anyway at the moment, not complaining, but he's in a care home, he's spent £200,000, he's going to carry on paying until his money runs out next year. And he's funding beds for people whose money has already run out. And that's okay. That's okay. Yeah, Speaker 2 (8:24) yeah, yeah. Debbie, thank you very much. I mean, you've had quite the year. And thank you very much for telling us about it. And sorry, it's been so difficult. Just on that, raising money in taxation. if, as the AIFS has suggested, the end of the triple lock is not going to raise enough money to create this social care system. Annette has got in touch. Jersey has the same problem. And the island accepted a special half a penny in the pound tax to be dedicated to long-term care. So we pay our income tax. And on top of that, we pay an extra tax, which is ring-fenced to cover the costs of care. I think the majority of the population in the UK would be willing to pay half a penny in the pound if it financed a care system. solution. Other European countries just pay more tax and it sometimes feels that Britain wants a five-star service but is only prepared to pay a three-star tax. You get what you pay for. Let's go to Alex Geary who's calling us from Shepherds Bush. Hi Alex. Hi there, hi. Hi, welcome. Speaker 5 (9:24) Yeah, I'd like to join the conversation as someone who's approaching pension age but also I'm the main carer for my daughter. who's called Pearl, and Pearl is 28, and she's blind and complex needs. So I've been dealing with her care packages in care all my life. I mean, all her life, sorry. So, yeah, I mean, yes, the triple lock has to go. I think we, you know, whatever Richard Tice says, I think most sensible people know that. And it should, some of that money at least. you know, can help pay for a national care service, Speaker 2 (10:05) which we definitely Speaker 5 (10:07) need. Yes. Speaker 2 (10:08) So yes to both of those things. I mean, just to clarify, sometimes we use phrases and assume everybody knows what we mean, but care packages, now that is an assessment done by a local authority that says, OK, Alex, you probably need this number of carers to come in this many times a