The Rosenbergs | The Implosion | 3

American Scandal - Audible

This episode of American Scandal explores the unraveling of David Greenglass's role as a Soviet spy during the Cold War, triggered by the confession of Klaus Fuchs and the

Key takeaways

• David Greenglass's testimony under FBI pressure ultimately led to the downfall of both Julius and Ethel Rosenberg.
• The FBI used circumstantial evidence—such as financial records and physical descriptions—to build a case against Greenglass, despite lacking direct proof.

Main topics

• Soviet atomic espionage during the Manhattan Project
• The FBI investigation into Harry Gold and Klaus Fuchs

Notable quotes

You recognize him? That's Ben, the courier in Albuquerque. Yeah, his real name is Harry Gold.

Conclusion

As the FBI closes in on David Greenglass, his decision to betray his sister Ethel marks a turning point in the case.

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Audible subscribers can binge new seasons of American Scandal early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts. American Scandal uses dramatizations that are based on true events. Some elements, including dialogue, might be invented, but everything is based on historical research. Speaker 1 (0:30) It's May 24th, 1950 in New York City. David Greenglass stands in the kitchen of his Lower East Side apartment. He has a newborn daughter in one arm and a bottle of baby formula in the other. He sways gently from side to side as he feeds her. But David has more on his mind these days than just his family. A few months ago, British scientist Klaus Fuchs confessed to passing secrets to Soviet intelligence from inside Los Alamos, the same atomic weapons facility where David worked during the war. David never met Fuchs, but he's guilty of a similar crime. Back in 1944, David was recruited as a Soviet spy by his brother-in-law, Julius Rosenberg. He then provided diagrams of the inner workings of the atomic bomb to a Soviet courier he knew only as Ben. David stopped spying for the Soviets years ago, and he'd like nothing more than to put it all behind him. But his past seems to be catching up with him. Klaus Fuchs has already been found guilty of espionage, and Julius has warned David that the FBI may be closing in on them too. So as David looks into his baby's eyes and ponders the future, he's startled. by a knock on the door. David sets down the bottle and edges the door open with his daughter still in his hands. Julius Rosenberg stands outside, holding up the day's newspaper. Have you seen this? A roost taking a nap. Can we talk later? This can't wait. Before David can object, Julius steps inside. He closes the door quickly behind him and thrusts the newspaper at David. The headline near the top of the front page reads, Philadelphia Seized as Spy. Julius jabs a finger at the photograph underneath. You recognize him? David stops rocking the baby because he knows exactly who the pudgy-faced man in the photo is. That's Ben, the courier in Albuquerque. Yeah, his real name is Harry Gold. He met with Fuchs in New Mexico around the same time you were there. Speaker 2 (2:32) This says the feds know he was working with other people, too. Speaker 1 (2:35) David glances at the bedroom door where his wife is sleeping. Let's talk in the kitchen. David carries his daughter down the hall, reading the rest of the article as he goes. Julius trails after him. We have to leave as soon as possible. I can get you and Ruth passports and whatever medical papers you need. The docks here will be watched, so we can't use those. But if we slip into Mexico first, we can take a boat to Europe from there. Julie, I can't cross the Atlantic with a newborn. Well, she'll be fine. New York is full of people who came over as babies. How soon are we talking? Within the next few weeks, for sure. But if it gets too hot before then, you and I may just have to go alone. What about Ruth and Ethel and the kids? We'd have to leave them behind. Julius reaches into his pocket and pulls out a thick envelope. He places it on the kitchen table. There's a thousand dollars here from Moscow, and I'll bring you another four later. Five thousand dollars? More than enough to start a new life. David reaches out a tentative hand and peels open the envelope. There's a thick wad of bills inside. That's twice my annual salary. You see, David, our comrades will look after us. We just have to do one more thing for them. We have to make sure the FBI never gets their hands on us. Speaker 1 (3:54) David Greenglass can't imagine his wife Ruth ever agreeing to flee the country. It would mean never seeing their families again and raising their kids in a strange foreign land. David would prefer to take his chances with the FBI or, if necessary, go into hiding somewhere on American soil. After all, there's a lot he could do with $5,000. But David doesn't say any of that out loud. He won't be able to keep the money if Julius knows what he's planning, so David keeps quiet. He takes the envelope of cash and lets Julius think he'll soon be packing his bags for Europe. Speaker 2 (4:32) Police in Irvine, California are investigating the double murder of a young couple in the parking lot of their apartment complex. A double homicide grabs the public's attention by the throat. We have Speaker 1 (4:42) identified Christopher Dorner Speaker 2 (4:43) as a suspect Speaker 1 (4:45) in this double homicide. Speaker 2 (4:46) A former cop and still in the loose. Considered armed and extremely dangerous. And scariest of all, he left something behind. A particular interest is a multi-page manifesto. This Speaker 4 (4:59) manifesto on Facebook is 11 pages long. Speaker 2 (5:02) Trace, Speaker 3 (5:02) this manifesto from this suspect who's targeting cops, it's stunning. Speaker 2 (5:07) Listen to the show The New Yorker calls one of the best podcasts of the summer, Dan Taberski's Manifesto. Speaker 1 (5:13) And I tell you, this manifesto, it scares the hell out of me. Speaker 2 (5:17) Listen to Dan Taberski's Manifesto wherever you get your podcasts or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Speaker 1 (5:36) From Audible Originals, I'm Lindsey Graham, and this is American Scandal. Speaker 1 (6:00) By 1950, Julius Rosenberg had been working for Soviet intelligence for eight years. But his greatest achievement as a spy remained the recruitment of his brother-in-law, David Greenglass. During the war, David had worked on the Manhattan Project, and Julius had convinced him to provide the Soviets with detailed sketches of the atomic bomb dropped on Nagasaki. Both men had justified their actions as sharing information that had wrongfully been kept from America's allies. But after World War II, Relations between the United States and the Soviet Union had quickly soured. Amid a growing atmosphere of anti-communist paranoia in America, the FBI stepped up its efforts to find Soviet spies. Deciphered messages had already led the Bureau to scientist Klaus Fuchs and courier Harry Gold. Now, investigators were wondering where the trail would take them next. This is Episode 3, The Implosion. Speaker 1 (6:58) It's June 1st, 1950, inside a courthouse in downtown Philadelphia. Harry Gold and his lawyer are shown into a cool, dark, wood-paneled conference room. Waiting for them there are two FBI agents. Gold and his lawyer take their seats. By now, this is a familiar scene. Gold has been in custody for the past week, and he's already met with these agents several times. He's been advised that if he shares details of his work as a Soviet spy, he may get a lighter sentence. But it's a long process. Gold worked for Soviet intelligence for a decade, and there is a lot to discuss. At the top of the agenda today is a trip Gold made to New Mexico in June 1945. The agent asks Gold to start from the very beginning. Gold thinks for a moment. He remembers that before that trip, he rendezvoused with his Soviet handler, a Russian who called himself John. He instructed Gold to meet with British physicist Klaus Fuchs at a railroad station in Santa Fe. But as Gold tells the agents this, he remembers something else about the conversation with John, something he had forgotten until now. It was not just Fuchs that Gold was instructed to meet. The FBI agents lean forward in their chairs because this is new. They abandon their original line of questioning and immediately ask about this second contact. Gold thinks. John told him to meet with Fuchs first, then take a bus an hour south to Albuquerque. Gold remembers grumbling at this request. He didn't want to add more time to his trip, but he still agreed to do as he was asked. John then did something strange. He reached into his briefcase and pulled out a portion of a cardboard jello box that had been cut in half in a zigzag pattern. He explained that this was a security measure. Gold's contact in Albuquerque would have the other half of the box. The FBI agents write down everything Gold says and pepper him with more questions. They want names, descriptions, addresses. Gold closes his eyes and tries to reimagine the scene in Albuquerque. He recalls that he actually met two people. They were a young married couple living in a small apartment. Before he met them, Gold had assumed that the husband would be a top scientist like Fuchs, so he was surprised to find that he was just a regular enlisted man, someone who worked with his hands, an engineer perhaps. The husband gave him a list of names and sketched out a component of the atomic bomb for him, and in return, Gold gave him $500. Gold tries to remember the couple's name. It's on the tip of his tongue, but for the life of him, he just can't place it. So the agents ask what he can recall about the apartment. Gold remembers it was about a half-mile walk from the Hilton he was staying at, and he crossed the train tracks on the way there. The street name escapes him, but it was on a quiet, tree-lined block. The building itself was an ugly, gray, two-story structure with pink windows. The couple lived on the top floor. But that's all he can remember, so Gold opens his eyes. He assumes the agents will be disappointed he wasn't able to provide more details, but he's surprised to see the wide grins on their faces. Gold has given them everything they need. Based on his description of the apartment, FBI agents in Albuquerque are soon able to find the right building. The landlord tells them that in 1945, apartment 4 was occupied by Ruth Greenglass and her husband David, who was a soldier at Los Alamos. Agents then find the Greenglass' account at a local bank in Albuquerque. Records there show that Ruth deposited $400 just a day after Gold claimed he gave them $500 in cash. Since David Greenglass worked on the Manhattan Project, the government already has plenty of information on him. They know his age, ethnicity, physical appearance. They have a long