LBJ & the Vietnam War

American History Hit

This episode explores the presidency of Lyndon B. and how his domestic ambitions for the 'Great Society' were ultimately derailed by the Vietnam War.

Key takeaways

• LBJ's upbringing in extreme poverty created a lifelong sensitivity to class and a fear of public humiliation.
• The Gulf of Tonkin incident served as a critical pretext for significant U.S. military escalation despite evidence of no actual attack.

Main topics

• Lyndon B. Johnson's political psychology
• The Gulf of Tonkin Resolution

Notable quotes

This is the story of LBJ and the war that broke him.

Conclusion

The episode provides a profound look at how the intersection of person

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) Want to explore even more history? Sign up to History Hit, where you will discover history from around the world. From the American Revolution to prehistoric Scotland, there is plenty to discover. With your subscription, you'll unlock hundreds of hours of exclusive documentaries, with a brand new release every week, exploring everything from the ancient world to World War II. Just visit historyhit.com slash subscribe to bring the past. alive. It is just before midnight on August 4th, 1964. In the White House, President Lyndon Johnson faces a camera to address the nation. He reports that two American warships have been attacked in the distant waters off the coast of Vietnam. The assault was unprovoked, he declares, and America has answered. Glaring into the camera lens, he tells Americans that he will request from Congress a resolution, granting him sweeping new powers. to defend American interests in Southeast Asia. It is a moment of resolve for the president, a demonstration that he will not, America will not, be pushed around by any nation, certainly not one led by communists. But there is a snag in this version of events, an uncomfortable truth of the attack that has already begun to unravel. Reports have been distorted. There is evidence suggesting there may have been no attack at all. For Johnson, the consequences will be all too real. He inherits a war he never wished to fight, a conflict tangled in the paranoia of the Cold War. Yet in the coming years, with one decision after another, Johnson is drawn deeper into the quagmire. Choices he makes will consume his presidency, divide the nation, and ultimately force him from political life. This is the story of LBJ and the war that broke him. Speaker 2 (2:01) Don Wildman here. You're listening to American History Hit. Thanks for joining us. For this, our guest is Pierre Asselin. He is the Dwight E. Sanford Chair in U.S. Foreign Relations at San Diego State University, a leading authority on the Vietnam War. He is the author of A Bitter Peace, Washington, Hanoi, and the Making of the Paris Agreement, and Hanoi's Road to the Vietnam War, 1954 to 1965, among a raft of other publications. So let's discuss LBJ and the Vietnam War. Speaker 2 (2:40) Pierre, welcome back to American History Hit. It is nice to see you again. Don, thank you very much. It's really great to be back. Before we delve in, I want to refresh our understanding of Lyndon Johnson, the man. The American story of the Vietnam War is so deeply entrenched with the history of this guy, with his personality, his psychology. I think it's important. Let me start off. Lyndon Johnson, born into an impoverished family in the hill country of Texas, enters politics in 1937, an FDR New Deal man to the bone. Talk to me about his political style. Speaker 4 (3:14) He's a fascinating historical character, and it's a very tragic one, too. I mean, you mentioned it, right? I think people fail to recognize his background when they look at. Johnson. I mean, you know, there's so much focus on his presidency in the Vietnam War that I think sometimes we discount his formative experiences, which turned out to have a huge impact on the way he approached Vietnam and other issues. So yeah, Johnson is from Central Texas. Father was a failed politician, failed legislator. failed business person. And I think that these failures end up conditioning Johnson from the time he's very young. I mean, this is an individual who ends up growing in extreme poverty, whose family sometimes cannot even afford groceries. Johnson, for the rest of his life, will kind of be haunted by this upbringing. I mean, while some people would be kind of proud of having risen from, I guess, the ashes of poverty, Johnson would always kind of... carry that as a source of humiliation and would always be kind of sensitive to these issues. But yeah, that poverty that surrounds him ends up really kind of shaping his views as he enters politics. It's Speaker 2 (4:34) such a class identity, which is going to be such a theme in his political life as he's surrounded by these patrician politicians, the likes of FDR and JFK, no less. As a politician, he is incredibly skillful when he gets that national level. He inflicts what's known as the Johnson treatment. He's he's got a six foot four frame for one thing, which he uses to, you know, quote unquote, charm others. I'm sure it's looming over them really is what usually is the case. He had a real mouth on him. I mean, he was he was a guy's guy. He becomes Senate. Majority leader in the mid-1950s, widely considered the most effective and powerful Senate leader there has ever been. Fair to say? Speaker 4 (5:15) Yeah, absolutely. And he's the youngest person to ever assume that position at that point. But yeah, I mean, given his humble origins, it's really remarkable the extent to which Johnson comes to assert himself at first in the legislature, eventually in the Senate, and really earn people's respect. in those positions. So, so yeah. And this treatment you mentioned, I mean, I mean, Johnson was, it becomes. for a period at least, a significant asset of his. I mean, he's a big guy, right? He's a Texan. And as much as there's insecurity that surrounds him, there's also certain pride in that. And he definitely uses the Texas background in Washington to have his ways on Speaker 2 (6:00) issues that really matter to him. He becomes vice president eventually under Kennedy. This is the last position a man like Lyndon Johnson should ever be in. These two guys, JFK and him, had butted heads in the past because essentially Johnson would have been in charge of him in the Senate. But now JFK sees him as a way of winning the conservative Southern vote, which had really taken place in the 50s. Sort of things shifted. Johnson's demeanor countered Kennedy's glowing Massachusetts glamour. That's the dynamic that's sort of heading into the events that we're talking about today. It's a terrible political Speaker 4 (6:37) marriage, right? I mean, both of them compete for the nomination. in 1960, right? And it's a very, very nasty competition. You know, JFK will really go after Johnson's background. Johnson will go after JFK's health. I mean, and it's funny, Don, right? Because for all this talk these days of how dirty politics have become, I think we need to look back and realize that, well, there's always been a certain level of nastiness. in American politics. And it's really kind of this no holds bar fight. And then eventually JFK gets the nomination for the reasons you mentioned. JFK then appoints him as his vice president. But it's the relationship itself. They'll never get over the things they said about each other as they're competing for the nomination. And then they'll never get over. the worlds that they come from. I mean, these are two individuals who couldn't possibly be any different. And in a way, right, for Johnson, you know, JFK stands for all that is wrong with America. This is, you know, Johnson, extreme poverty, right? Profound humiliation, rural background. now is essentially kind of serving under this individual who's from the East Coast, right? Very privileged background, a very clean individual coming from some of the best schools and the most privileged institutions of the East Coast. And this is where it kind of gets worse is that, of course, you know, JFK will surround himself with like-minded and kind of like-trained people, right? I mean, JFK's advisors are from these Ivy Leagues. Despite the fact that Johnson is his vice president, JFK will never refrain from insulting him, from humiliating every chance he gets, from making fun of the accent to the way that Johnson dresses. And of course, you know, Johnson picks up on this and it validates a lot of the things that he's believed for a good part of his life about Washington, about certain American classes. Speaker 2 (8:41) We're talking about a nation that's actually shifting its focus enormously. post-World War II. And then, of course, Korea comes along to complicate things. This is now an office, the presidency, that's much more involved in foreign policy than ever before. Johnson is a politician who really is focused on domestic policy. That was his passion under the New Deal, et cetera. And he wants to make people's lives better, given his background. In the Kennedy years, Vietnam is basically a carryover from ultimately Truman's domino theory through the Eisenhower administration, it has now become the potential of another Korea, which we don't talk enough about in American history in general. What it takes to stop the spread of communism becomes this enormous, complicated tangle for American policy. By the time we get to Kennedy administration, where do we stand in Vietnam? You Speaker 4 (9:31) know, I like the fact that you brought up Korea, Don, because We call it the forgotten war, and in many ways it is, right? I mean, teaching this stuff, it's astounding how much attention Vietnam gets, and Korea, it's barely a footnote. But as it turns out, Speaker 2 (9:46) I Speaker 4 (9:46) mean, Korea, I mean, the war in Korea itself is hugely significant as a standalone historical development. Beyond that, you cannot possibly understand. why the U.S. gets involved in Vietnam and why the U.S. behaves the way it does in Vietnam, unless you understand Korea and the impact it has on the American political consciousness. You know, everything America does in Vietnam, I mean, a lot of what America does in Vietnam is conditioned by what Americans think they learned from Korea. And so under JFK, the U.S. is committed to Vietnam because of Korea, right? I mean, the outcome of Korea really... kind of allows China to elevate its position worldwide. And Vietnam really becomes about not just containing communism in Vietnam, but really containing China generally. And the Soviets themselves are an issue, but by the mid-50s, the Soviets are committed to peaceful coexistence with the United States. So they're not really a concern, right? Despite how we kind of... tend to define the Cold War as this conflict between Washington and Moscow. It turns out that by the 50s, tensions between the U.S. and the Soviet Union are relatively low. But it's China now that's kind of emerging as problematic. And so Truman and then Eisenhower kind of get involved in the area, supporting the French in their efforts to be colonized and tame Indochina. And then JFK will essentially continue the commitment. As far as I'm concerned, I think JFK really takes a major step here by deploying these military advisors who essentially secretly participate in combat operations. And so JFK, you know, who is a staunch Cold Warrior, further commits the United States to Vietnam. And then Johnson inherits all of this from Kennedy. But yeah, I mean, Korea. prompts the United States to get involved in Vietnam. Truman commits the U.S. The commitment increases under Eisenhower, and then it kind of reaches new levels under JFK. Speaker 2 (11:54) Yeah. The Geneva Accord, which is in the 50s, was negotiated to create a ceasefire. This is under the French, right? And calls for a temporary division of Vietnam along the 17th parallel. That's the fateful North Vietnamese, South Vietnamese situation that we enter into. Ho Chi Minh is the figure in charge up north. An anti-communist government is established in the south. This is when the United States is pouring tons of aid to the French before, which carries over into this. All of this is to give context to Johnson taking control of this situation. I want to know what LBJ was thinking, as you understand it. Obviously, we have the assassination of John F. Kennedy, which is the horrible tragedy that happens in 1963. And now LBJ has taken over. Important part, I mean, not to get cynical, but this is entering into an election year for LBJ. That's going to be critical in everything he does from the moment he takes over from JFK, right? So Speaker 4 (12:56) from the moment Johnson enters the Senate, he's supportive of American policy in Southeast Asia. He's in favor of supporting France. In 1954, the two Vietnams are established. At one point, Eisenhower was considering sending American forces to help the French. Johnson was opposed to that. Johnson supported containment. He supported the domino theory, firmly believed in the domino theory. At the same time, though, he was concerned about direct American intervention in Vietnam, again, on the basis of what had happened in Korea. He's supportive of JFK's approach to Vietnam, generally speaking, even though he's kind of left out of all the major decisions. This is really important. When Johnson assumes the presidency, for all that JFK has been doing around the world, Johnson has been privy to really none of these conversations. He was never part of the so-called EXCOMM that addressed the Cuban Missile Crisis. He was never consulted about Berlin, much less about Vietnam. But still, from what we understand, overall, Johnson supported JFK's approach to Vietnam. The one decision, and this is a big one, the one decision that Johnson was against was the removal of the South Vietnamese leader Ngo Dinh Diem or Ngo Dinh Diem in 1963. When Johnson learned of the regime change, he immediately acknowledged that this was a mistake and that it was likely to haunt the United States. And it really did, because then South Vietnam became even more unstable in 64 and 65. But when he assumes the presidency, essentially... Johnson believes in containment, believes in the domino theory, believes that JFK has made some mistakes. But generally speaking, he's supportive of the American line vis-a-vis Vietnam. When he Speaker 2 (14:54) takes over and certainly when he's reelected or when he's elected, I should say, in 1964, he has the chance to break with this policy, doesn't he? Yeah, absolutely. tremendously, this is a landslide victory in November of 1964. He's beaten Goldwater. He can pretty much pull whatever strings he wants at that point. Why doesn't he pull out of Vietnam, do you think? Speaker 4 (15:19) There's both kind of like international foreign policy considerations and domestic considerations, right? On the one hand, by the time Johnson assumes the presidency, the U.S. has essentially been committed to Vietnam for 14 years, right? Can an unelected president essentially decide to to cut bait here. So there's really this pressure on him