Hasan Piker’s challenge to the center

America, Actually with Astead Herndon

This episode of 'America Actually' explores the ongoing ideological battle within the Democratic Party through a conversation with controversial progressive figure Hasan Piker. Following mixed

Key takeaways

• Progressive campaigns face an ongoing electability challenge, even when they win in key states like Michigan and Minnesota.
• The Democratic Party's internal conflict between moderates and progressives remains unresolved, with both sides claiming momentum heading into future elections.

Main topics

• Democratic Party internal conflict
• Progressive vs. moderate politics

Notable quotes

I never underestimate my opponents, whether they be Republicans or whether they be establishment Democrats.

The fact that the Hong campaign did not have any major progressive national endorsements... makes it unique on that front.

Conclusion

The Democratic Party remains deeply divided, with both progressives and moderates confident in their respective

Transcript preview

Speaker 5 (0:00) Now, we've been talking about the civil war happening in the Democratic Party all summer in New York City. The Speaker 1 (0:06) politics of the past ends today. Speaker 5 (0:10) In Michigan. Listen, man, Speaker 1 (0:12) if you can't say the name, it's Abdulrahman. Keep the name out your damn mouth. Speaker 5 (0:17) And most recently, in Wisconsin. You Speaker 6 (0:20) know, I always say that every day is a good day. In Wisconsin, it is a very good day. Speaker 5 (0:25) And I know what you're saying. We've heard this story before. Moderns versus progressives. The DSA versus the establishment. But after Francesca Hong's loss in Wisconsin, it seems we should talk about this at least one more time. Because the map is telling us a mixed story. Some wins for the left. Some wins for the center. and a big open question about what happens in the general election. Democrats say they welcome a Big Ten party for progressives and for moderates. But does the left agree? What we want is a clear agenda, a clear vision for a better future. We're going to ask Twitch streamer Hasan Piker this week on America Actually. Let's dig in. Speaker 2 (1:15) When the world keeps shifting, we're there to help you act with confidence. At HSBC, we bring together the people, ideas and capital that drive growth, backing your ambitions at every stage. So when you're preparing for the next generation, strengthening your portfolio or you're entering new markets, we're there, bringing 160 years of experience to help you move forward. HSBC, opening up a world of opportunity. Speaker 4 (1:49) The Speaker 3 (1:49) city moves fast, but your vibe, that's different. Sharper, smoother, more alive. Speaker 4 (2:00) The new Speaker 3 (2:05) Honda City isn't just made to drive, it's made to feel. The new Honda City, all new vibe. Speaker 5 (2:13) So the most prominent progressive Democrats share at least one thing in common, Hassan Piker's stream. Souram Omdani, AOC, Bernie Sanders, even midterms candidates like Daria Liza, Avila Chevalier in New York City, or Abdul El-Sayed and Francesca Hong out in the Midwest. They've all talked to Hassan Piker. And that has infuriated some establishment Democrats. who argue that Piker's past controversial statements, anti-Israel commentary, and just general bro-iness are toxic to everyday voters. We first talked to Piker back in June and explored some of the drama that seems to surround him. But that was back when the Democratic primaries were yet to be decided. So this time, I wanted to ask Piker about more than just the primaries. How does he plan to conduct himself in a general election? And do results like Michigan prove that his politics is popular? Or do results like Wisconsin show that he's a Speaker 6 (3:09) liability? Here's our conversation. Speaker 5 (3:13) Hasan Piker is with us, unofficial mouthpiece of the left and controversial lightning rod for the center. How are you? Both good and bad. I imagine this is some of the reaction to Wisconsin. The last two weeks have produced mixed results for left wing candidates, a big win in Michigan and a win this week in Minnesota for Peggy Flanagan, but a loss for Francesca Hong, which was a surprise in Wisconsin. What have been your takeaways from the last set of results? Speaker 6 (3:40) I think ground game is phenomenal. There's a lot of excitement on the platform. There's a lot of excitement for the first time for change candidates. It's still a very good environment to be in if you are a socialist. The establishment does have a lot of juice still, for sure. And when they can put together a similar strategy to what happened in 2020 against Bernie Sanders with Joe Biden. especially in a place like Wisconsin, where Tony Evers is like very clearly still a very popular governor. They were able to elevate David Crowley's campaign, who... actually had dropped out and consolidated support behind Rodriguez initially. And he had to drop out because he was only performing at like 6%. Yeah, Speaker 5 (4:26) the consolidation was swift and it was complete. I mean, you're comparing it to 2020 in which the establishment lined up behind Joe Biden and kind of nixed that Bernie Sanders campaign in a blink of an eye. I guess for you, I just want to start with the emotion. Like, I imagine you were surprised at the result. Speaker 6 (4:44) I never underestimate my opponents, whether they be Republicans or whether they be establishment Democrats. You know, you have to always operate as though you're down 10 points. I don't believe in the notion that we are going to win easy victories at the end of the day. There are a lot of people, there are a lot of powerful interests at play here. There are a lot of people in positions of power that don't Speaker 5 (5:08) want Speaker 6 (5:08) to lose their seats. So they're going to fight like hell. So we have to also fight like hell. We have to fight extra hard as a matter of fact, because, you know, we're almost always outspent. I Speaker 5 (5:18) want to ask about some of the takeaways that at least media is taking from this. I got an alert right before we started talking from The New York Times that said a Democratic socialist lost in Wisconsin shows the movement surging wave might crash before rippling out from big cities. Is Speaker 6 (5:36) that Speaker 5 (5:36) wrong? Speaker 6 (5:40) Oh, I love that. Look, people are going to have their, their opinions. I'll just say it like this. I'll do I'll say it's one, a one point victory margin showed that the democratic socialist aligned movement or the progressive movement was, was in tatters. It was obviously a failure. And now David Crowley's less than one point. victory proves that the centrist bulwark is still here and that the democratic socialist movement is dying. It kind of feels like it's a wish casting for the most part from a lot of people who, who maybe want to go back to the way things used to be. My assessment on this is definitely a little bit different. I think at the end of the day, these are insurgencies, right? These are insurgent candidacies. We're talking about no name recognition for a state legislator that was entirely propped up by local Wisconsin DSA chapters. I mean, these people, they didn't have a lot of money necessarily, and they were able to defy the odds, and they continued defying the odds all the way into the end. The idea that the polls showed that Francesco was a clear frontrunner and was running away with this race is utterly irrelevant, especially if you were to look at this. with a broader perspective, like thinking about where Democratic Socialists of America have gotten to in the last two years. I mean, I remember how I felt in 2024, you know, in the aftermath of the DNC about where the American socialist movement was as opposed to where it is now. We are clearly a force to be reckoned with, and that's precisely the reason why a lot of people are paying close attention to what's going on. And I'll say it like this. The fact that the Hong campaign, did not have any major progressive national endorsements and that I was like their top surrogate. There was no Bernie Sanders Speaker 5 (7:33) endorsement. There was no AOC endorsement. That did make the Hong campaign unique on that front. Speaker 6 (7:38) Yeah, and I, well, not necessarily. I think there were a couple other races that I was also involved in that, you know, my candidates lost, right? I mean, Shoykot Chakrabarty was another great example of this. It wasn't a statewide race. And obviously, there's always... clear local differences that that you know play a formative role in how these races turn out but in our experience we've looked back at this data there's a there's an endorsement tracker there's a couple different endorsement trackers out there and it's like they'll put my endorsement up there and they'll put like aoc and bernie sanders and it's very clear that like the best likelihood of success usually comes from a consolidation of national progressive forces whether it be like outside expenditures coming from, you know, Justice Democrats or things like that. And, you know, with the Francesca Hahn campaign, I think it's a testament to their success. It's a testament to how popular the platform is in general. And one thing I will have to stress here is the salience of the electability narrative. I think that's still a... real motivator for a lot of people. Yeah, Speaker 5 (8:44) I hear that. I guess one question I wanted to ask out of these results, though, is both El-Sayed's campaign and Hong's campaign did better among middle class voters, I should say, than the data would tell us among working class voters. Considering how central working class and kind of bottom up issues are to the DSA message, why has it not produced results that actually get it more working class votes? Because That does seem to be something we've learned over the last three, four weeks. Speaker 6 (9:13) Yeah, I think that we have to dramatically reconstruct how we understand what it means to be working class in this country. I think a lot of people will cast aside, and you might agree with what I'm about to say here, but we have to do away with this fantastical notion that the working class is one specific thing. I think for the longest time, people have thought about... this this you know hard hat wearing coal miner as a as