Things we're surprisingly bad at, hidden talents, & questionable habits

Always Here

The hosts open with a deeply personal reflection on Abby's one-year anniversary of losing her daughter Emerson, discussing how grief manifested physically and emotionally before shifting toward renewed joy. They transition

Key takeaways

• Abby describes how the one-year anniversary of losing Emerson triggered severe physical symptoms including stomach pain, loss of appetite, and a dropped milk supply before gradually lifting into renewed joy.
• Despite living in Hawaii for an entire year, Abby reveals she was never taught to swim by her parents and still relies on flippers or riding on others' backs in the water.

Main topics

• Navigating grief and loss anniversaries
• Hidden talents and surprising personal weaknesses

Notable quotes

"Rainbow Babies don't rewrite our losses, but they're like a continuation of their story."

Conclusion

The episode balances heavy emotional vulnerability with relatable parenting humor, offering

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) My parents never gave me a sex talk and never taught me how to survive in water. What were you thinking? Letting me into adulthood. Speaker 3 (0:08) I'm pretty badass at athletics. I'm fast. I'm strong. Unfortunately, I fall a lot. I'm pretty clumsy and my son takes after me. What do you mean? You've been using my toothbrush. He's like, well, just pick whichever one's available. Speaker 4 (0:20) What? Get the plaque on your teeth away from my teeth. I steal Matt's toothbrush. Speaker 1 (0:24) Oh my gosh! Would you eat the food out of their mouth? No. Speaker 4 (0:29) I'm sorry. Speaker 3 (0:38) Welcome back to Always Here. We're your hosts, Speaker 4 (0:42) Abbey Howard. And Abbey Howard. I feel like I've been calling Speaker 3 (0:47) you Ab a lot recently. I think it's because our kids always shorten each other's Augs. Augs. Chris. CJ's already shortened. He's shortened everybody. He Speaker 4 (0:55) calls you Abs. Oh, Speaker 3 (0:56) does he? He's like Abs. Okay, so it Speaker 4 (0:58) went from Abs to Ab. Yeah. We're just losing letters every day. Speaker 4 (1:04) Wow. Well, we are here to share the hope and the heart Speaker 3 (1:07) with heart and humor. Yeah. I feel like today's going to be fun. We're talking about secret talents, things we're bad at. Speaker 4 (1:15) Maybe some reality TV. I don't know what else we got. We're talking about things that we're good at but also mostly things that we're surprisingly bad at. Speaker 3 (1:21) Yeah. And Speaker 4 (1:22) I do mean surprising because I know that you think we're perfect. We are. We're good at so many things. How can we be bad Speaker 3 (1:29) at it? Exactly. Even Speaker 4 (1:31) I Speaker 3 (1:31) was Speaker 4 (1:31) surprised. No, I was coming up with my things that I was surprisingly bad at. I was like, no one's going to be surprised that you're bad at sports, Abby. Speaker 4 (1:39) I didn't include that one because I was like, no one thinks you're good at that. I'm surprisingly bad at sports. Everyone's like, what? They're like, honey, I would have been shocked if you knew what you were doing with the ball. Speaker 4 (1:52) So I was like, oh, they're gonna be shocked. I'm bad at basketball. They're like you're 5'2 and you were a theater kid. Exactly. No one thought you were gonna. So I was like, backspace. Speaker 4 (2:04) Okay, well, let's share your hopes. Or maybe your hards. Okay, well, mine has to start with a hard, and this is a harsh turn. So I'm going to let the Speaker 2 (2:12) room. Speaker 4 (2:14) Okay, my heart starts first so that my hope came in. Okay. But, oh gosh. Oh, here. Oh, um. I don't want to cry. It's okay. No, I really don't want to cry because I've spent all last week trying not to. Speaker 4 (2:30) Because my hope is that I'm genuinely better. Like I genuinely feel like I literally woke up this morning and felt like someone had just like taken a vice off my neck. But or like weighted bags. But last week was really, really freaking hot. Speaker 4 (2:46) And... It was the anniversary. Speaker 4 (2:51) of losing Emerson. Speaker 4 (2:55) And, you know, it's one of those things where I think so much about, gosh, I don't ever want to say you have to have like a silver lining to a tragedy because I don't, I don't know. I think that can just not be helpful sometimes at like the worst moments. But I can tell you that the silver lining is that I have gained so much more empathy. Speaker 4 (3:15) And I've also just honestly learned a lot of humility and like any situation that I've never experienced, I'm really hesitant now to be like, oh, well, I would have done this or they should have. No, I'm like, I don't know because I haven't been through it because I've learned so many things and so many things have shocked me after experiencing like late. term miscarriage and by the way it's late term miscarriage because after 20 weeks at least in the state of arizona it's considered a stillbirth so people saying it's not a late miscarriage i'm not mad at but i'm also like there's an education piece here right right a late term miscarriage is a miscarriage after 12 weeks yeah in the second trimester and then after that point it's considered a stillbirth and it's really recognized more as like a death in the state than a miscarriage Speaker 2 (4:00) so Speaker 4 (4:01) just for that clarification but Speaker 4 (4:06) I would have not thought that the anniversaries would have been particularly difficult. I would have thought it would be really hard always or different. I didn't know that it'd be particularly different at that time. But something literally happened at the start of that week where it actually like I'm starting to think it made me physically ill. And I couldn't even record this episode. And I thought it was because I was like sick, which I could have been sick, which we'll talk about later. But I had like a stomach pain that I could not even describe. doubled over like hurt so bad i was fighting it all day into the night completely lost my appetite completely tanked my milk supply like i was ill and then you asked me you're like i mean you think it was good i was like literally thinking about i was like i feel like this grief just like took me out this past week Speaker 2 (4:53) and Speaker 4 (4:54) i was just super shaky all the time like i didn't want people to talk about it but i wanted people to talk about it but i was like send it over a text because if you say it in person that i'm gonna be ill like I mean basically I'll be crying and I just didn't want to but just the anniversary of it was really really really really hard yeah Speaker 3 (5:15) and Speaker 4 (5:16) I should have known because Speaker 4 (5:20) Growing up, I knew the date that my parents had, like, lost my sister was Speaker 2 (5:25) really, really hard for my mom. My Speaker 4 (5:28) mom specifically. And I was, like, thinking that it would be different Speaker 2 (5:32) than... Speaker 4 (5:33) Not thinking it would be different, but I just didn't know if it would affect me. And it really affected me last week. Speaker 3 (5:38) Yeah. I mean, I think that makes Speaker 2 (5:40) sense. Speaker 3 (5:41) You probably just assumed, like, okay, the... The birthday would be really hard. Those milestones more so. And then this kind of snuck up on Speaker 4 (5:49) me. Speaker 3 (5:49) I Speaker 4 (5:49) don't know. I thought that... And I don't even know how to address that day. Like anniversary, birthday. Speaker 3 (5:58) Like I Speaker 4 (5:58) didn't even know how to address that. Speaker 3 (6:00) Yeah. Speaker 4 (6:00) Like, yeah. I didn't even know what to call that and I still don't. I just felt all this pressure. Speaker 4 (6:07) For the week and I think at the beginning of the week I was like I felt all this pressure to do something big to memorialize her and then I was like I can't even breathe thinking about that so I will do it but I'm like I just can't. I just had to give myself grace, basically. Yeah. So. For sure. Yeah. I was just super sick about it. Yeah. Yeah. It was really, really rough. Really rough. Surprisingly rough. And I thought that I had been through because I was like I've been I've had so many happy days since then like months of happy days yeah Speaker 2 (6:45) that Speaker 4 (6:46) I was like why would this come and it's as any different especially because I have my rainbow baby yeah Speaker 3 (6:52) but Speaker 4 (6:53) gosh it's just different it'll knock you on your butt I Speaker 3 (6:56) mean that day was like a very traumatic event yeah you know and so I think it makes sense that your body would have especially when you do feel emotionally better Your body has like physical reminders. I think my stomach think about how Speaker 4 (7:07) crazy that is Yeah, I think Ashley our friend talks about that a lot like your body holds on to Speaker 3 (7:12) grief and trauma in different ways Yeah, they call it your body Speaker 4 (7:16) keeps the score. Yeah, Speaker 3 (7:17) so Speaker 4 (7:18) yeah Speaker 3 (7:19) It Speaker 4 (7:20) was crazy though how it like actually like I thought I could muscle I could bind my way through this right Speaker 3 (7:25) and Speaker 4 (7:25) then it's like I started I went back to the gym one day and I was It has nothing to do with the gym. But like I don't think I was Locked in my stomach like and I just couldn't I haven't taken a nap like Speaker 1 (7:38) I Speaker 4 (7:39) Like was like I need to sleep and it was I was just ill and Speaker 1 (7:42) it was really really really hard But Speaker 4 (7:44) I woke up this morning Surprisingly, haha. I'm like crying now, but I woke up this morning literally just feeling like so much joy like i was like i feel amazing my energy was feeling like feeling so much better my appetite is starting to come back i literally couldn't eat like basically like i was struggling to eat all last week yeah Speaker 3 (8:03) so Speaker 4 (8:03) it's so weird i didn't have any hunger cues yeah Speaker 3 (8:07) and Speaker 4 (8:07) i'm nursing isn't Speaker 3 (8:08) it interesting like I think it's kind of beautiful that your body, our bodies will do that. And I know it's hard. It's so hard. But like our mind wants to self-protect and like turn off and ignore and push away. But then your body is telling you like, hey, you've got to slow down and you have to work through this and feel that. Yes. Speaker 4 (8:26) And remember, like you don't want to forget Emerson. Speaker 3 (8:29) And so it's like, even though it was painful. Yeah. And it was a painful reminder, but it is a reminder. No, it's Speaker 4 (8:35) so true. I think it's a really great mechanism to just be like, no, you have to. Yeah, you have to remember. That's Speaker 3 (8:42) a Speaker 4 (8:42) great way of putting it. And that's exactly how I was like starting now to see like what was happening last week. But like, yeah. Yeah, Speaker 3 (8:50) in the moment you're like, what's going on? I was like, maybe this Speaker 4 (8:52) first year is just for me to process right now because it just got, it just really, really got me. Totally. Really got me so bad. And. Gosh, someone commented. I made a post on the day of her loss, and it kind of just happened randomly because I just had this realization as I was at the beach nursing Fisher, thinking about how, gosh, this is snorting it. Speaker 3 (9:20) It's Speaker 4 (9:20) okay. Thinking about how different it was looking down and holding a baby on that day. Yeah. Speaker 4 (9:29) Versus like looking down and holding her exactly a year later. Speaker 4 (9:34) It was so dark. And I was just so grateful, but still so grief-stricken. by Speaker 2 (9:42) that difference. Speaker 4 (9:43) Anyway, I don't want that to be the focus of this episode or like what we talk about. We were going to talk about it on unplanned last week and I was like, if we weren't to, I literally couldn't finish the episode. Speaker 2 (9:54) Yeah. I was Speaker 4 (9:55) just too, too, it was, it was too much. Speaker 2 (9:58) Yeah. Speaker 4 (9:59) But someone commented on my post. Which was very generous of them. It was a quote from me that I didn't remember saying, but I was like, wow, that's exactly how I feel. So I was like, Speaker 2 (10:08) well, Speaker 4 (10:08) I guess that was something I said, but it was like, Rainbow Babies don't rewrite our losses, but they're like a continuation of their story. And I'm just repeating my own quote, apparently, because that's truly how I feel about Fisher versus Emerson. As much as I feel like some... moms after loss want to separate those two stories just because you don't want to bring sadness on your baby's story he really is a continuation of emerson's story too and obviously he hasn't he's starting his own story but like his birth was a continuation of her story Speaker 2 (10:44) and Speaker 4 (10:45) just like looking down at him and seeing like Speaker 4 (10:49) That story progression and how it has turned into something beautiful really struck me in Newport. Speaker 1 (10:59) Yeah. Spineo Fisher, he woke up and your mom doesn't know how to get him to go back to sleep. Well, that would be my boobs. Speaker 4 (11:11) Speaking of my rainbow. Maybe I go get him real quick and get myself together and then we will have a great joyful episode. So don't think this is gonna be sad. It's not. It's gonna be happy. We're happy. Hi, buddy. Oh, Speaker 3 (11:25) he looks so big, Ab. Speaker 4 (11:26) Hi, Speaker 3 (11:26) Fancy. Hi. Speaker 1 (11:28) I Speaker 4 (11:28) feel like Speaker 1 (11:28) he is kind of big. Speaker 3 (11:29) He's getting big. Yeah. And I was just with him all weekend. And I'm looking and I'm like, whoa. Speaker 1 (11:33) You're saying you're one month old. I'm like, how? Speaker 3 (11:35) I know. It's okay to be sad about that, by the way. You don't have to feel sad about being bad. You don't have to feel bad about making it sad. It's not sad. No, I've Speaker 4 (11:42) had too many headaches from crying. I'm like, I don't want to make it sad because I don't want to have another headache. I am crying. And Speaker 3 (11:52) it also just really drains me to cry. It is draining. It does give me headaches, too. Speaker 4 (11:57) Like really teary. Yeah. Speaker 3 (11:58) But sometimes I think it's because I'm trying to hold back my tears while I'm in the middle of a sob. And I'm like, don't let this not come out. And then I get a headache, you know? Speaker 4 (12:06) Oh, no. I think it's just because it hurts my eyes. I get all my headaches in my eyes and it hurts my eyes. I cry like this. Okay. Also, yeah. Thanks for sharing. I know so many people feel... Speaker 3 (12:14) It's so relatable, Abby. I know. I don't Speaker 4 (12:17) want Speaker 3 (12:17) to Speaker 4 (12:17) be a broken record. But I'm like... That's just the reality of this stuff. It just really, really changes you forever. And not a lot of people talk about Speaker 3 (12:25) it. So I think even when you bring it up like later on about your grief and how you're processing it, I think that's really helpful for people. I've never gone through a major grief in my life. And so seeing it, seeing you walk through it, I'm like, oh, I've just never seen that before. I Speaker 4 (12:39) will say like. It's been really helpful and enlightening for me. Oh, thank you. It's been really good for me to like talk about it because it's not something we like talk about. Like I can, I know I can always talk to you guys about it, but there's something about like. you know being i don't know having a podcast where like okay we're just like talking about everything and um which wait which is true i do talk about i do talk about it i feel like but this is just i've met a lot of women because of it actually i remember right after we like literally the month after the loss we were in disney and i met a mom that was going to disney to um Because it was a trip that she'd already planned when she was pregnant and she had just lost a girl and had two boys and Was still like going on the trip to make her like because her boys were excited exactly like you Speaker 3 (13:30) and Speaker 4 (13:30) lost her got 17 weeks It was the exact same story newer in Disney. What we Speaker 3 (13:35) are Speaker 4 (13:35) Goofy's kitchen together And I was like this is Speaker 3 (13:38) devastating but also oh He's Speaker 4 (13:43) also pooping. Speaker 3 (13:43) Oh really? Speaker 3 (13:48) For his privacy, please delete that. Speaker 3 (13:52) That was his mother, not him. It was me, I swear. I mean, it's something we're all going to have to walk through. Every single person has to walk through grief in their life. Speaker 4 (14:02) And Speaker 3 (14:02) yeah, it's not something that's talked about or really educated on. And I feel like we're just kind of left to the wolves to figure out how to navigate it when it comes upon us. So having voices that share is so helpful. And Speaker 4 (14:15) I had so many women. Or I shouldn't say so many. I had some really key women that would meet with me regularly and still do that had gone through similar things. Like very similar. And that had really helped me. So I was like, if there's someone that doesn't have someone like that. Because it is a little niche in a way. Totally. It's a little. I don't mean niche. Wow, that sounds like a cute thing. And it's not cute at all. But you find yourself in a small percentage. Right. So sometimes, especially if you're in a small town, you might not be able to be connected with someone. Right. Speaker 2 (14:46) Anyway, how's your life Speaker 4 (14:47) been? Good. You know, my hope... Speaker 3 (14:49) It's kind of silly after this. Speaker 4 (14:52) Sorry. I got the new iPhone. Yeah! Speaker 3 (14:54) Oh, I'm glad you got an upgrade. See, that's the thing. Yeah, you know what? We balance. And the reason why that's significant is because I had zero storage. And every day it was causing me so much anguish. Every day it would pop up. You're out of storage. You're out of storage. Oh, and your life and job is on your phone. It's... Speaker 4 (15:13) It's really Speaker 3 (15:13) cool. Every day it just feels Speaker 4 (15:14) a challenge. Speaker 3 (15:14) Figure it out, phone. I know. So I was able to upgrade, which was really nice. So I feel like a free lady. And I have... It just is like a lifted weight off my shoulders. So that's that's been hopeful Speaker 2 (15:25) and Speaker 3 (15:26) I got the 512 I didn't get the one terabyte So we'll see in two years how I feel about that storage pick but it's okay my hard was that Speaker 3 (15:38) sandwiched between Italy and our Newport trip was a lot of work things that were really exciting and fun but really were overwhelming and I felt a lot of mom guilt because I was just gone for a trip and I was really busy with getting caught up in work and yeah I just felt a little sad but I was able to because we have a babysitter come just a couple days a week in the afternoons and ended up having her not come on Friday afternoon instead and I just had like a fun day with the kids and just because I felt like I was running around a lot especially during their nap times I was like okay and then in the evening it just felt like a race so I just really need to give them some uninterrupted good quality time trying to get everything done in a week and a half just felt like a little stressful and I just felt a lot of mom guilt about it but I'm caught up And we can go back to our normal routine and we'll be back and good. Speaker 4 (16:32) So you kind of touched on it and I did too that we went to Newport. Both of our families went to Newport this past weekend. But we're going to talk about it in the next episode because we're not even supposed to be recording this now. It's because I literally was so sick. Doubled over. Yeah. I was not. I was horizontal whenever I could be, which actually isn't that much when you really think about the fact that. Speaker 3 (16:52) Oh, I hope he feels better after that one. Speaker 1 (17:01) It's Speaker 4 (17:01) still going. Don't clip that. It was mother. I'm so afraid that there is a blowout. Speaker 3 (17:08) Do you want to check? You Speaker 4 (17:10) want me to check? No, I don't feel it. We're good. Okay. When a blowout happens, it's on my hands. Sometimes it's loud, and usually I feel like those... That was when. That was when. Speaker 3 (17:19) Okay. Speaker 4 (17:20) We went to Newport with our families, and we have a lot to talk about from that, but honestly, we just have to cap it because we just know that we will continue to gap. So be excited about that for next time. Yes, Speaker 3 (17:29) that'll Speaker 4 (17:29) be next Speaker 3 (17:29) episode. And I have a lot of Speaker 4 (17:31) things I want to say about that. Speaker 3 (17:33) I can't wait to hear them. Okay. Thank you to Quince for sponsoring this portion of today's episode. You Speaker 4 (17:38) know those pieces in your closet that you find yourself reaching for over and over again? That has got to be my Quince skirt. It's in my wash right now. Quince makes clothes that you just want to re-wear. And it's a good thing too because they're really high quality. They can live through the wash cycle. Even my... wash cycle. I Speaker 3 (17:54) love that Quince's pieces are basics but elevated. They're everyday essentials that use really premium materials like Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, washable silk. The designs are really timeless, they're thoughtfully crafted, and they're made to be Speaker 4 (18:07) worn again and again and again. And Quince is also sold at an amazing price point. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80 percent, less than similar brands. They work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman, so you're paying for quality but not the brand markup. Speaker 3 (18:22) Quince goes way past just apparel. They bring their same approach to everything from hotel quality bedding and bath to kitchen essentials, thoughtfully designed furniture. There's a lamp on their website that I've been eyeballing for a very long time. Please just get the Speaker 4 (18:33) lamp already, Abigail. Speaker 3 (18:34) I know, Speaker 4 (18:34) I need to stop talking about it. Find the fall pieces you'll reach for most at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was always here. It's the best way to... support the show um Speaker 3 (18:52) should we do while it's crazy yeah wow that's crazy that's Speaker 1 (18:57) crazy that's it addy has a while that's crazy for us addy well the wow that's crazy is just all the craziness with secret lives of mormon wise did you finish watching yeah i haven't watched all five episodes um but it has been or Michaela has announced that she's not returning for the next season. Speaker 4 (19:21) Based Speaker 1 (19:21) on things going on within the group. And mostly Taylor, Frankie, Paul. But the real wow that's crazy that I wanted to let you know about Abby is how Taylor's season ended. Of The Bachelorette. Speaker 4 (19:37) Of Speaker 1 (19:37) The Bachelorette? Yes. Wait, they aired it? Speaker 3 (19:39) No. They revealed it in Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. Speaker 1 (19:43) So they were recording Secret Lives of Mormon Wives after. The Bachelorette ended. Okay. And so they're just continuing. Are they allowed to. Speaker 3 (19:51) Well, ABC owns. Disney owns ABC and Hulu. So they're all under the same parent family. Which if you think about it is a little nuts. Because they'll cancel The Speaker 4 (20:00) Bachelorette. But they'll still have Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. But it's all the same parent companies. What if that was literally to boost Secret Lives of Mormon Wives? Maybe they knew. I don't Speaker 1 (20:12) know. I think they definitely Speaker 4 (20:13) like. Watch Speaker 1 (20:14) out on some revenue for canceling the Bachelorette. So I don't think they would do that. That actually Speaker 3 (20:20) makes no sense. Right? Isn't that so... Are people talking about that? Speaker 1 (20:24) It's all Speaker 3 (20:24) PR. Speaker 1 (20:24) I don't Speaker 3 (20:25) know. Maybe. Speaker 1 (20:27) So she got engaged. She got engaged to Doug. Do you remember Doug? When we did the rankings? Speaker 3 (20:33) I remember Doug. Speaker 1 (20:35) No, I remember Speaker 3 (20:35) Doug. He was an aspiring musician. Speaker 4 (20:37) How do you remember that? Because I just remember the pictures. Yeah, I just remember. Speaker 1 (20:42) You also like Doug. No, it wasn't one that I picked. Speaker 3 (20:45) It wasn't one that I picked. Speaker 1 (20:46) So she got engaged to Doug when some of the girls of Secret Lives of Modern Wives came out and met the final three contestants. The girls were like, Doug is the worst one. Don't go with him. Don't Speaker 4 (20:58) go Speaker 1 (20:58) with Speaker 4 (20:58) him. Speaker 1 (20:58) She got engaged to Doug. It's a pattern. Comes back home a week later, has slept with Dakota already. Speaker 3 (21:10) Yeah, it's a Speaker 1 (21:11) bad cycle. That'll hurt your engagement. No, oh yeah, while she was still engaged. That'll hurt you. Speaker 3 (21:17) It'll hurt. That'll put a little crack in the arm. Speaker 1 (21:20) Then, Heather, so like when they're in this in-between of when The Bachelorette has ended versus when it's public, they call them happy couple weekends. So like they get an Airbnb or something like that and they can do Speaker 3 (21:33) it. Speaker 1 (21:33) Wasn't that fascinating to Speaker 3 (21:34) learn about? I Speaker 1 (21:34) have known that for a little bit. Oh, I Speaker 3 (21:36) never knew that about Bachelor. Yeah. Speaker 1 (21:38) So they could still spend time together. Because a lot of people have broken up in their happy couples. Oh, interesting. So Speaker 4 (21:42) that was Pilot P. Really? They're happy Speaker 1 (21:47) couples. Speaker 4 (21:47) Happened there too. Speaker 1 (21:48) And so they ended up breaking it off in one of their happy couples. And I don't remember if she told him. I don't remember if she told him or not. But here's the thing. She's not in love with Doug. She's not in love with Dakota. She's in love with Ben. Who, Ben? Speaker 3 (22:10) Ben made a quick appearance in season four. Correct. And just like flew out to hang out with her the weekend before she went to The Bachelor. Right. And Speaker 1 (22:20) he seemed cute. Yeah, like the week before she left. Yeah. But again, remember, the night before she left, she also slept with Dakota. So, this whole thing. So, she's in love with Ben. Speaker 4 (22:28) Man, Speaker 1 (22:28) that's a lot to juggle. No, that's right. Okay, Speaker 4 (22:29) wait. That's my thought, which we might need to cut this. You guys can vet this. Uh Speaker 3 (22:33) -huh. Speaker 4 (22:34) But... Um, I got three kids. Uh Speaker 3 (22:36) -huh. Speaker 4 (22:37) I can't, I can't think about. Speaker 3 (22:39) One man. Speaker 4 (22:40) What I'm going to wear. Oh, oh, sorry. I can't even think about, oh yeah, that's one of the great boys. I can't even think about my freaking husband. I can't find time for that guy. And we, we are. I think about that about people that cheat all the time in their marriages. I'm like, when do you have time? That was my main point. I'm like, when did you? When you have time to cheat when you have time to cheat when I wouldn't I don't Speaker 3 (23:05) I know Speaker 1 (23:05) She's a Speaker 3 (23:07) high capacity super high capacity girl Crazy Speaker 1 (23:12) Okay They go to they all go to New York to see Whitney on Broadway She brings Ben again, they're still in like no one can know But she's engaged. Speaker 3 (23:29) She's still in her NDA with The Bachelor. Yeah. So she has to like sneak Ben on Speaker 1 (23:32) this trip. Speaker 3 (23:32) They broke up their engagement. Oh, Speaker 1 (23:33) they Speaker 3 (23:33) broke up their engagement. Ben Speaker 1 (23:34) is there. But Speaker 3 (23:34) it's Speaker 1 (23:35) not Speaker 3 (23:35) public. Speaker 1 (23:35) Ben was like snuck there. Like, he's hiding. He can't be seen with her. This is Speaker 3 (23:40) all before it was all canceled. He's in Speaker 1 (23:41) the Speaker 3 (23:41) Airbnb. Speaker 1 (23:42) Yeah. Speaker 3 (23:42) He's there. Yes, the whole time. Speaker 1 (23:44) The whole time. He's locked in there. So he's never working. And he's like, I want you to be my girlfriend. Like, I want to, like, this is something serious I want. Speaker 3 (23:52) This is all Speaker 1 (23:52) covered on the show. Yes. Speaker 3 (23:54) Like, this is something Speaker 1 (23:55) serious. I Speaker 3 (23:55) know, it's so crazy. It's so messy to watch. I know. You're also like, oh, Ben. I Speaker 1 (24:00) know, poor Ben. Ben wanted something serious. He's very likable. Speaker 3 (24:02) And so Speaker 1 (24:02) then she cut it off with him before they left Speaker 3 (24:05) New York. Because she's Speaker 1 (24:07) like, Speaker 3 (24:07) I can't have anything serious. Speaker 1 (24:08) I'm Speaker 3 (24:08) like, fair. I think she, Speaker 1 (24:10) yeah, she was wise to do that. I Speaker 3 (24:11) can't have anything Speaker 1 (24:11) serious Speaker 3 (24:11) and maybe don't have anything Speaker 1 (24:12) casual. Speaker 3 (24:13) Right. I know. Speaker 1 (24:15) She made a post about Ben recently that she, like, that he was a great guy. Yeah, she made a really sweet post. I think whenever, like, it all went public. Speaker 3 (24:23) An homage Speaker 1 (24:23) to Ben. I think it went, it Speaker 3 (24:24) all Speaker 1 (24:24) went public. Speaker 3 (24:25) Yeah. It was. Yeah. It Speaker 1 (24:27) was a crazy season. Wait, that was it? Speaker 3 (24:28) It was a hard watch, honestly. That's where Speaker 1 (24:30) I'm at so far. Speaker 3 (24:31) Oh, you haven't finished it? No, I haven't finished it. Okay, I think something about the show, and you guys don't have to comment on this because we kind of talked about this on the call, but... obviously like talking about mental health is so big in our culture and like suffering along with people and like helping people when they're down on their low. But I feel like it's been a really, the last five seasons you've seen Taylor specifically, her mental health and all the phases of it and these different levels of the downs and the ups. And I think the girls have done a really good job of like long suffering alongside her and being there for her when she's really struggling. I think now it's gotten to the point where they're like, what is... What are the boundaries? Like what is better for her and for us as friends? Like, is it loving to, is it enabling now to the point or is it, you know, I feel like they're kind of in that discussion of it, but I just think it's been a very fascinating and super relatable thing to watch in that you're actively watching someone struggle and actively watching people figure out how to support them best. And I don't think we have a lot of examples of that. And I also don't think when people talk about like mental health, sometimes you don't see how bad it can get. Speaker 4 (25:35) Like when Speaker 3 (25:36) people have manic episodes and different things like how what does that actually look like in real life? I think this not that she's got a manic but just for examples like they're really hard dark things that people walk through and Can come out of and I think it's just been really interesting seeing how they navigate it and probably I think pretty enlightening to people Watching it. Speaker 1 (25:56) It's Speaker 3 (25:57) just been Speaker 1 (25:57) very interesting to watch. No, I agree. I think it's been interesting because I'm also on the side of like wow, they really shouldn't be on TV right now. Like they need to figure some stuff out before because especially for someone who like maybe likes the attention and Speaker 3 (26:13) likes Speaker 1 (26:13) the drama and likes is like feeds into it a little bit like Taylor does. Yeah. Where it might be good for her to take to take a break and not be reported on all the time. Yeah. And get that break from it, even if she chooses to or not. Speaker 3 (26:29) Yeah. Necessarily. Speaker 1 (26:30) In my brain, and I could be completely off, I'm like picturing like Britney Spears type situation. Like you're just watching someone unfold in Speaker 3 (26:38) a Speaker 1 (26:38) dark situation. Speaker 3 (26:40) Like being on the show itself is enabling. Yeah. Speaker 1 (26:43) Is she going back for season six? She has announced she's not. So is then Mikaela going to go