Charlamagne Tha God: Feelings Are The Hardest Thing To Acknowledge

All There Is with Anderson Cooper

Anderson Cooper sits down with Charlamagne Tha God for a candid conversation about grief, anxiety, depression, and unhealed childhood trauma. They explore how the loss of close friends

Key takeaways

• Charlamagne Tha God lost close friend Jazz Waters to suicide during the pandemic in 2020, an event he describes as hitting him like a punch in the face.
• He experienced his first panic attack in first grade when his mother dropped him off at school and wasn't formally diagnosed with anxiety until age 31 or 32 after being fired from radio for the fourth time.

Main topics

• Grief and mortality
• Anxiety and depression diagnosis

Notable quotes

"You can't heal what you don't reveal."

Conclusion

The episode delivers a powerful reminder that grief and trauma cannot be outrun, only processed

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) Welcome to All There Is. Wherever you are in the world and in your grief, I'm glad you're here. My guest today is Charlemagne Tha God, a best-selling author, television host, and co-host of the popular radio show and podcast, The Breakfast Club. Charlemagne has been very candid over the years about mental health. He started a foundation called the Mental Wealth Alliance to close the mental health gap in black communities. He's also been open about his childhood experiences with bullying, sexual abuse, and his difficult relationship with his dad. He lost a cousin and two close friends to suicide. One of them, Jazz Waters, was a writer on the show This Is Us, who died by suicide during the pandemic in 2020. Charlemagne has four kids, all daughters, with his wife, Jessica Gadsden. We sat down in New York last year. Speaker 4 (0:47) I saw you being interviewed once, and you were asked, what are you most afraid of feeling? Do you remember what your answer was? I don't. You said grief. Oh, wow, wow, wow. Instantly, you said grief, the grief of death, 100%. You try not to think about it or speak about it. First of all, you do know this is a podcast about grief. Speaker 2 (1:08) Absolutely. That's why when you asked me that just now, I didn't know what my answer was then, but the first thing that popped in my mind was it probably had something to do with mortality. What Speaker 4 (1:15) is it about grief that, I don't know, frightens the right word or just you just don't want to allow yourself? Speaker 2 (1:20) I've looked at grief a lot of different ways throughout my life. I've been blessed. Speaker 2 (1:26) to lose people that are close to me, but not like others have. I have my mom still here, my father's still here, but my grandmother, who passed away in 2006, my mother's mom, like, that was one that was like, wow, you know? But I guess in order to deal with it, you don't deal with it, if that makes sense. Because even with my grandmother, I think I cried, like, once. I cried immediately when I first got the news. And then I think I cried like a week later because I didn't go to the funeral. Like I don't even, I would not. Really? Speaker 4 (1:55) Wow. Oh yeah, I can't do funerals. So how old were you when, so 2006 you said she died. 2006. So Speaker 2 (1:59) you Speaker 4 (1:59) were an adult. Oh yeah, I was in my Speaker 2 (2:01) 30s. Speaker 4 (2:01) It's interesting because I didn't cry. I mean, I cried a little bit when I was 10 and my dad died, but I've run from it my entire life and it has hit me like a punch in the face. I Speaker 2 (2:12) don't know if grief is something you do or if it's just something you feel. My homegirl, Jazz Waters, who committed suicide during COVID. Jazz Speaker 4 (2:19) was a writer, was a very close friend of yours. Speaker 2 (2:20) Absolutely. And my homeboy, Jarrell Garnett, who actually got shot and killed. It comes in waves, right? Like, these are people that I probably do think about every day, but, like, when you get that feeling of grief, like, damn, I miss that person. Speaker 4 (2:33) You were talking about, I think it was the day after that your friend Jazz had died, and you were saying that you didn't even kind of know what to think about it, and you haven't compartmentalized it yet. And I'm wondering, is that the way you deal with things, compartmentalizing them, like putting them in boxes? Speaker 2 (2:49) Not boxes, but trying to get an understanding. You know how they say people feel what they don't understand? So ever since I've heard that phrase my whole life, I've tried to get an understanding of something just so I don't have a fear of it. And I think that's what it is for me with grief. Speaker 4 (3:03) You've been incredibly vocal and bravely so about. A lot of, you know, mental health struggles. You talked about you had your first panic attack, you think, when you were like in first grade. Speaker 2 (3:14) Absolutely. The first day I got dropped off and my mom left me, I can remember that feeling to this day. Like that uncontrollable, heavy breathing, heart pounding, you know, tears flowing. I just could not calm down. It was just a straight panic attack. And I was just afraid because my mom had left me in the first grade. When were you actually able to put a name to it? Oh, that wasn't until much later in life. I had to be like 31 years old, 32 years old, because I had gotten fired from radio for the fourth time. And I was back living home with my mother in Monk's Corner. And my daughter was like one or two. I remember driving down, you know, I-26 in South Carolina. You Speaker 4 (3:52) were going to a Speaker 2 (3:52) comedy show, I think. I Speaker 4 (3:52) was Speaker 2 (3:52) going to my man Lil Duval's comedy show in Orangeburg. I mean, this was a bad panic attack. Like, I've had the panic attacks where I've had to go check myself in the ER because my heart wouldn't stop beating. But this one really felt like it was about to be bad. And I remember pulling over, getting some water, taking a few deep breaths. And I was just like, let me make it through the night. Made it through the night, went to the doctor the next day. And he was the first person to say to me, your heart is fine. It sounded like you had a panic attack. Do you suffer from anxiety? And I was like, anxiety? What is that? When he told me what it was, I'm like, oh, he goes, are you stressed about something? And I'm like, hell yeah, I'm stressed about something. I'm living back at home with my mom. I just got fired for the fourth time. I'm collecting an employment check. So I had a lot of stress. So in my mind, all I had to do was get another job. I just had to get back on radio and everything would be fine. But the next gig I got was The Breakfast Club five or six years later. I'm having more success than I've ever had in my life. But all of those problems still exist. The anxiety, the bouts of depression, it's all still there. You still feel that? That anxiety. Speaker 4 (4:50) Yes, Speaker 2 (4:50) but I know how to deal with it now. And I think that's the most important thing. Even when you have kids, like I can see those same traits in my kids because my daddy dealt with it, my sister dealt with it, and I deal with it. So when you see it in a child, you're able to recognize it and kind of know what they need to do. I didn't have that when I was young. Speaker 4 (5:08) That's been so big for me, having kids. My mom had this sadness behind her eyes, and I didn't know what it was for much of my life until I kind of learned her. childhood and her story. And when I had kids, I looked in the mirror and I saw that same sadness in my eyes. And I was like, I do not want my kids to see that in my eyes. And I want to. I want to face this stuff. Oh, Speaker 2 (5:33) that's something I write down. I actually have written down, I want to raise trauma-free kids. I don't know if that's possible, you know, but I at least know that that trauma is not going to come from inside the household. I pray that it doesn't, you know. A lot of the traumas that we probably experienced growing up, I'm 47, came from literally right there inside the house, from right there in our family. It's Speaker 4 (5:52) in the Speaker 2 (5:52) house. It's like one of those Speaker 4 (5:53) horror movies. You realize how it's Speaker 2 (5:54) actually in the house. The family should be a safe space. I got one of my younger daughters, she really does act out a lot. Somebody told me once that it's because they feel safe around you. Like when your child acts out, it's because they feel safe around you. Because I never would do that to my pops, at all. My pops was a heavy disciplinarian. I remember my first breakthrough in therapy was me crying because I realized my daddy used to discipline me for things he never taught me. Speaker 4 (6:18) What was the moment you decided, I'm going to do therapy? I think you said in 2015, 2016. Speaker 2 (6:24) 2015. I just remember I was on vacation. It's like a family thing. And I just remember feeling