Tom Morello's new album is a Rage fan's dream

Alchemy with Anthony Mason

Tom Morello discusses his first solo rock album in over two decades, exploring how he blended heavy riffs with folk influences and co-wrote five tracks with his

Key takeaways

• Morello co-wrote five songs on 'Everyone Gets Everything They Want' with his son Roman, describing their process as a 'parental democracy' where disagreements result in the kid being sent to his room.
• After taking two guitar lessons at age 13 that convinced him music wasn't for him, Morello discovered the Sex Pistols and formed a band within 24 hours despite knowing zero chords.

Main topics

• Solo rock album creation and songwriting process
• Father-son musical collaboration with Roman Morello

Notable quotes

"It's a parental democracy in a way where if, you know, if there is a strong enough disagreement, he's sent to his room."

Conclusion

Morello's reflections on balancing technical mastery with spontaneous creativi

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) It's a parental democracy in a way where if, you know, if there is a strong enough disagreement, he's sent to his room. Speaker 1 (0:07) I think there are a lot of people in bands who wish they could do that. Speaker 1 (0:20) Welcome to Alchemy. I'm Anthony Mason. Thanks for joining us. Tom Morello is one of the great guitarists of our time, known, of course, for his epic albums with Rage Against the Machine and Audioslave. Today we talk about his many collaborations with Chris Cornell, Bruce Springsteen, and now with his 15-year-old son, Roman, on Tom's latest record, Everyone Gets Everything They Want. Alchemy is presented by our founding sponsor, the Flag Art Foundation, a great nonprofit that supports artists and exhibitions around the world. Now here's my chat with Tom Morello. Speaker 2 (0:57) Tom, thank you for doing this. My pleasure. Thanks so much for having me. Speaker 1 (1:00) How is it possible... after 22 albums that this is the first solo rock and roll album from Tom Morello. I've been a Speaker 2 (1:08) great compartmentalizer when it comes to making records. Many of those records were band records with Rage Against the Machine, Audioslave, Prophets of Rage, a couple of forays into the world of Bruce Springsteen helping Bruce make records. Speaker 2 (1:21) As a solo artist, I was first drawn to folk music and Americana and those records were, I was sort of leaning into my Springsteen and Dylan and Woody Guthrie side on those. Then the other records that have been more rock albums have been fully collaborative efforts with bringing in Speaker 1 (1:34) a Speaker 2 (1:34) lot of guest stars. Over the course of the last five years or so, though, I've been embracing in a live setting kind of the totality of my career with one goalpost being the big riffs of Rage and Audacity, but on the other side being the singer-songwriter-ness. I want to make a record that reflected all of that. and really aiming to make a record that was as heavy, the heaviest record I've made certainly since the first Rage Against the Machine album. Speaker 1 (1:57) Yeah. It is still a collaborative album in a way. Yeah, yeah, Speaker 2 (2:00) there are some friends and family members on it. I know, Speaker 1 (2:02) but I'm thinking of, you know, Roman, your son, who's now 15, co-wrote five of the songs with you. Speaker 2 (2:10) Yeah, he's really been a muse on this record. There's a... great saying about Van Gogh that he concentrated sufficiently to catch fire. And on this record, Roman has really enabled me to concentrate sufficiently to catch fire. And he started playing during the pandemic, but his riff, you know, with my ear to his door, I poach his best riffs. And then we play a game called Best Riff Wins. So my, you know, my computer's filled with riffs and when it's time to write a song, you know, sometimes his riff wins and sometimes mine. on five of the songs on this record. How Speaker 1 (2:42) does that work when you write with your son? Speaker 2 (2:44) You know, I will sort of take the best of the riffs that we've written, make a song, I play it for him. He normally has some complaints, which I weigh. But again, it's like... But you are Speaker 1 (2:54) the final arbiter. Well, yeah, Speaker 2 (2:56) unlike bands, it's a little bit less of a... It's a parental democracy in a way, where if there is a strong enough disagreement, he's sent to his room. Speaker 1 (3:08) I think there are a lot of people in bands who wish they could do that. I've tried to Speaker 2 (3:12) manifest Speaker 1 (3:13) that in the Speaker 2 (3:13) past. Speaker 1 (3:13) Did that evolve just naturally? Speaker 2 (3:17) Yeah. I didn't start playing until I was 17 years old, so we started much earlier, about 10. And of course, your kids want to have nothing to do with dad's day job. So while there were always instruments around, he had no interest in them, nor did his older brother. But during the pandemic, there Speaker 1 (3:33) was Speaker 2 (3:33) long, long days of... Zoom school and Speaker 1 (3:37) playing Speaker 2 (3:38) Fortnite with friends. And I knew that he liked Led Zeppelin. So I said, you know, give me five minutes and I'll teach you the first three notes of Stairway to Heaven. He said, I'll give you four. So I said, I'll take it. I think that I could take, you know, teach you, anybody in the room, give me four minutes. We can learn the first three notes of Stairway to Heaven. The next day I said, give me four more minutes. And so we're Speaker 1 (3:55) now Speaker 2 (3:55) six notes deep. And the third day he asked me. And that's when the hook was in. Yes. For a father, Speaker 1 (4:01) that's always a good thing. Exactly. Exactly. And we took Speaker 2 (4:03) it from there. Speaker 1 (4:04) That's a very smart strategy. Speaker 2 (4:05) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I took two guitar lessons when I was 13 years old that convinced me that music was not for me. Speaker 1 (4:12) And Speaker 2 (4:13) there's a very sort of tender time where, you know, it's called playing guitar, not working guitar. And I wanted to learn songs by Led Zeppelin and Kiss, and they wanted to teach me the C major scale and how to tune the guitar, which seemed like a Speaker 1 (4:25) huge... Speaker 2 (4:25) waste of time. So that guitar sat untouched for four years in a closet till I discovered punk rock and the Sex Pistols. Speaker 1 (4:32) Right. It's, um, whenever I see relationships, you know, like particularly father-son music relationships, like Jeff Tweedy and his kids, you know, I look at that and I think, what a, you know, what a gift that must be. Speaker 2 (4:42) Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's really wonderful. One of the, there's two things about it that are surprising. First, there's like a little kid in your band and it's Speaker 1 (4:48) your Speaker 2 (4:48) son and that's surprising. And he steals the show. Like I've seen a lot of, I've seen, there are a lot of artists that bring their kids into their into the fold of some time there are very few though that they're that are upstaged by them and that's been happening pretty regularly with Roman Speaker 1 (5:03) but Speaker 2 (5:03) so the first thing it's crazy to have like your kid in the band and the crazier thing though is when it just becomes normal right like I don't even think about it like he's just a dude in my band now that Speaker 1 (5:14) we you Speaker 2 (5:15) know we rock a show and then we go and you know a ball game happens yeah Speaker 1 (5:19) that's what happens that's just what happens yeah exactly yeah and it's I mean and also it just means It just means your music lives on through your kid. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Speaker 2 (5:27) It's really, I don't know if rejuvenating is the right word, but it's, I've never wanted to play more. I've never wanted to tour more. I've never been more excited making songs and writing songs, in part because one of my principal collaborators is someone I just love with all my heart. Yeah. Speaker 1 (5:43) It's really sweet. And so go back to, you said you took music lessons. when you were like 12. Speaker 2 (5:50) Yeah, and then quit. It was an abject failure. I failed at the lessons. I failed at playing guitar. Had you Speaker 1 (5:56) wanted to play guitar? Yeah, I wanted to be Jimmy Page, but it was too much. There was no, Speaker 2 (6:02) I could not see a path to doing it. What changed was when I got the Sex Pistols cassette. Speaker 1 (6:08) I was Speaker 2 (6:08) in a band within 24 hours of purchasing the cassette. I did not know how to play a chord on the guitar. I did not know how to play a single note on the guitar, but I just... I willed a band into existence. I went to the Libertyville High School Drama Club and said, a punk band is forming. I'm the guitar player. Speaker 1 (6:25) If Speaker 2 (6:25) you want in, raise your hand. No experience required. And a few hands went up. Speaker 1 (6:29) And Speaker 2 (6:30) I was in a band and we just began writing songs with no knowledge of how to make music. And it was instantly fun. And from that day to this. Speaker 1 (6:39) What did you hear in the Sex Pistols that made you... Speaker 2 (6:42) It was... I heard... I felt a lower, much lower bar of entry. Speaker 1 (6:49) With Speaker 2 (6:49) the bands that I love that had the tremendous mystique, Led Zeppelin, Kiss, etc. Speaker 1 (6:54) They Speaker 2 (6:55) all had $10,000 Les Pauls. They had huge Marshall stacks across the back of the stage. They had castles on Scottish locks. I had a musty basement in suburban Illinois. And it felt like you could make Sex Pistols-like songs there. You could not make... you know, stairway to heaven there. Yeah, Speaker 1 (7:15) it's interesting how punk made so many people believe they could actually do it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, Brittany Howard was here talking about it. She said, I knew at 11 I wanted a band. And she said, and I said, what kind of band? She said, a punk band. Oh, Speaker 2 (7:26) yeah. Speaker 1 (7:27) And I was like, whoa. Speaker 2 (7:28) Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, for me, there was a very particular moment where The Clash became my favorite band, another punk band. Yeah. The combined... Speaker 2 (7:38) a political philosophy that I recognized with music that I loved, right? Speaker 1 (7:42) You've described seeing a show in 82, I think it was. That's right. At the Aragon Ballroom. Aragon Ballroom, where Joe Speaker 2 (7:47) Strummer, my favorite musician, had exactly the same cheap amp that I had on a chair on stage. Speaker 1 (7:53) And Speaker 2 (7:54) then I just went back to my basement where Speaker 1 (7:56) I Speaker 2 (7:56) was. And all of a sudden, it was the revelation that this is not something that I'm going to do one day. I'm doing it. He's doing it. I'm doing it. We're just all musicians. writing songs and playing them and it sort of demystified the whole idea that there's just some sort of magical creatures who you'll never be able to attain that sort of mythological status we're just like all people right amps in our basements Speaker 1 (8:15) you bought a t-shirt that day i did Speaker 2 (8:16) yes well yeah it was over here you've done some research uh it's uh yeah you know until that time the t-shirt my heavy metal t-shirts always had you know dragons or groupies on them, none of which factored heavily into my suburban Illinois existence. But the Clash Cert just had a few words written over the heart. It said, the future is unwritten. I thought, well, there's some people with ideas in this band, and I'm a person with ideas. Perhaps there's a place for me in rock and roll. Speaker 1 (8:45) You really start practicing when you're in college. Yeah, Speaker 2 (8:49) yeah, yeah. That's when I've held the calling. When I started at 17, I was 19 at Harvard University, and the freshman sort of... commissary area where there was some kind of um you Speaker 1 (9:00) know Speaker 2 (9:00) improvisational breakthrough yeah where the skies parted and i felt like this is my other interests faded i was i was an artist i was a writer i was interested in you know participating in you know guerrilla warfare in central america or things like that and now all of Speaker 1 (9:15) a Speaker 2 (9:15) sudden i'm gonna be i just knew i'm a guitarist trapped in an honors major at an ivy league school yes and you know and it was i was it was a literal crossroads my first summer home from from from harvard i was uh offered a position in a chicago cover band that may actually made money and i thought wow how cool to be in a band you're not old enough to drink in the clubs yes but you're going to be a working musician yeah and then i had to decide whether i was going to instantly pursue that or go back to school and i went back to school to finish and get my degree Speaker 1 (9:45) but you're put you described that you were practicing initially. Initially two hours a day, then four, Speaker 2 (9:51) then eventually eight. Yeah. In an obsessive compulsive way. Speaker 1 (9:54) Were you doing eight hours while you were in college? Speaker 2 (9:56) During the summers. Speaker 1 (9:57) During the summers. Speaker 2 (9:57) But I didn't, I think during four years of college, I maybe missed. a day or two, you know, and it was driven by one, perhaps an obsessive, I'll let, you know, leave Speaker 1 (10:10) it to the Speaker 2 (10:10) psychiatrist to figure out exactly why it was so important to me to do, but I had never heard of another guitar player who had made albums, there was only one that I heard that had made albums that started as late as I did, and you know who that guitar player was? Robert Johnson, who started at 18, and he had to sell his soul to the devil, given my Catholic background, that was off the table, so I just had to practice my ass off. Speaker 1 (10:32) The late start thing I could see weighing on you. Yeah. Speaker 2 (10:35) Yeah. Yeah. And I would be sitting in a, you know, I would finish my political science classes at, you know, maybe one in the morning, you know, studies or reading or whatever. And then sit in that stairwell. you know, sometimes in my spandex. Where was Speaker 1 (10:49) the stairwell? Speaker 2 (10:50) The stairwell, in each different dorms, different places. Okay, so wherever Speaker 1 (10:53) you were, Speaker 2 (10:54) you'd go under the stairwell. Yeah, Speaker 1 (10:55) yeah, Speaker 2 (10:55) just go, and then, because you don't, your pre-med roommate, you can't keep him up, right? So I'd be practicing my Eddie Van Halen scales in a stairwell with the, you know. Your classmates have designs of becoming Supreme Court justices and running hospitals in New Hampshire, writing the next great American novel, and I'm trying to learn Eruption by Van Halen. Speaker 1 (11:19) Are you thinking, I don't belong here? Or what are you thinking? I just, I was a pretty clear North Star, you know. That Speaker 2 (11:26) was, one, I had certain ideas in my head about what was right and what was wrong in the world. And I was going to apply myself. I mean, I've given it a lot of thought. And it seems, looking back, it feels crazy to me. My social life certainly suffered. But I think it had a lot to do with control. I was the only black kid in an all white town growing up in Illinois. I didn't have a successful dating history as a young man. There were things that I did not have control over, but I had control over this. The guitar. It was the only factor that was going to determine success or failure with regards to being able to play was my will. And I had that in ample amounts. Speaker 1 (12:07) It's interesting that you knew that. Speaker 2 (12:09) Yeah. Yeah. It was like, this is something you can't. I'm the determiner of how this goes. And it was also, I felt the rising tide as I went from one hour a day to two hour days to four, et cetera. Like you're better this week than you were last week and you know it. And that means, you know, I could do the math. I'm gonna be better next week. And let's see what happens in a year from now. Speaker 1 (12:29) You're known for such a distinctive style. And I'm wondering when... You saw what that was going to be. Yeah. Yeah, it Speaker 2 (12:37) was Based on another set of abject failures really so I moved to when I moved to Hollywood I got my first check I was working as the scheduling secretary for US Senator Alan Cranston the time I got I got my first check and I spent it on a Custom-made guitar which I knew nothing about I checked all the wrong boxes. It was the worst guitar I had ever played Yeah, um over the course the next you know, maybe 12 months, I changed everything about it. I had an idea of a sound in my head that I never matched. And I finally just gave up. I was so obsessive about finding a sound. I wasn't creating, I wasn't writing songs. I was Speaker 1 (13:13) - Speaker 2 (13:13) Did Speaker 1 (13:13) you give up on the sound? Speaker 2 (13:14) I gave up on this. One day I spent like two hours with my amp and with my guitar. And I was like, it's as good as I can get