Ana Belizário: ‘Timber should be the material of choice in the global south’

AJ Climate Champions

Architect Ana Belizário discusses the rapid expansion of the mass timber industry in Brazil and its potential for the Global South. She expl

Key takeaways

• Ana Belizário is a director at Urbain, a mass timber manufacturer located in Paraná, Brazil.
• The Brazilian movement seeks to move beyond European precedents like Murray Grove to create localized architectural typologies.

Main topics

• Mass timber construction
• Sustainable forestry in Brazil

Notable quotes

We don't have to repeat European mass timber. We are now pursuing Brazilian mass timber.

Conclusion

The episode highlights the transformative potential of engineered wood

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:10) You're listening to Climate Champions, a podcast from the Architects Journal. I'm Hattie Hartman, Sustainability Editor at The Architect's Journal. Speaker 2 (0:21) And I'm Hattie's co-host, Joe Jack Williams, Head of Regenerative Strategy at Bywater. Speaker 3 (0:26) This episode is supported by Built by Nature, an Amsterdam-based non-profit with a mission to lead a global transformation of the built environment by accelerating a responsible use of timber and biobased materials. Built by Nature recently launched five principles for responsible timber construction, which we discussed in detail in episode 59. These principles offer a really useful framework for thinking about how to use timber in the built environment without unintended consequences. Find out more at builtbn.org and check out the Built by Nature Knowledge Hub. packed full of resources for designing and building with timber. Speaker 1 (1:14) The beginning when I started to study mass timber there was, especially here in Brazil, this obsession to repeat some European models. Everything had to be Murray Grove. It's not like that. Now that we are a little more mature in terms of Brazilian mass timber. We understood that we have to build as many mastimber buildings that we possibly can, schools, airports. I mean, we don't have to repeat European mastimber. We are now pursuing Brazilian mastimber, as we have done with Brazilian modernism. Speaker 3 (1:51) Our guest today is Ana Belizarrio, a Sao Paulo-based architect with a PhD in mass timber construction from the University of Sao Paulo, which she completed earlier this year after several years working as an Speaker 2 (2:05) architect and urban designer. In Speaker 3 (2:07) 2016, Ana joined Urbing, a mass timber manufacturer and supplier whose factory is located in the southern state of Paraná on the outskirts of Curitiba. As a director at Irving and as commercial and technical lead, Anna is on the forefront of Brazil's mass timber movement, which has exploded in the last five years. Anna has been a judge for the Built by Nature Prize, both in its inaugural cycle last year, which focused on scaling bio-based materials, and this year, which celebrated exemplar timber buildings. At the time of recording, Anna has just returned from COP30 in Berlin, where Built by Nature launched its Principles for Responsible Timber Construction. The principles have been endorsed by 15 governments, including Brazil and the UK. We'll hear more about that shortly. One thing to bear in mind as you listen to this episode is Brazil's exceptionally rich heritage of modern architecture, primarily concrete, dating back to Oscar Neumeier's early buildings in the 1940s. The design quality of Brazil's mass timber buildings to date is impressive and something we can all learn from. A case in point is the Children's Village School in Tocantins, northern Brazil, which won the Riba International Prize in 2019. Equally important is understanding the viability of building with timber in the global south, where the majority of construction will take place in coming decades. Ana, we're delighted to have you on the podcast. today. Thank you, Heidi. I'm Speaker 1 (3:44) so Speaker 3 (3:45) happy to be Speaker 1 (3:45) here. Speaker 3 (3:46) I'd like to start by asking what first sparked your interest in building with timber? Speaker 1 (3:52) Before working with timber, I worked for more than 10 years with the construction industry. I worked for developers and general contractors. This was background. And then I was invited to participate in this project with a Brazilian forestry company, Amata. It was the beginning of the project that eventually became an independent company called Urban. And it was a huge surprise to me that Mastinber was developed at this point globally. And it was new, it was fresh. and I fell in love immediately. As an architect, I was always involved with concrete and, as you mentioned, Brazil has a very strong heritage in modern architecture. Niemeyer, Paulo Mendes da Rocha, Lúcio Costa, Lina Bo Bardi. But I was also really interested about off-site construction because my experience in the companies I've worked was that building in those artisanal ways were not supposed to happen anymore. Building using the labor force and forcing the bodies of the workers of the construction sites, I don't think it was supposed to happen anymore. despite of the beauty of the concrete. So I was always interested in faster and more industrialized ways of construction. When I started to study mass timber with the AMATA Innovation Project, it was a surprise to me that the technology was that developed because the idea of joining, of combining one thing. beauty because you don't have to explain the beauty of wood. Combining beauty, innovation and industrialization in one technology, for me it was something mind-changing and I decided at that moment that I would never leave that field because as an architect whether we are in a practice or in a contractor or in a developer. For me, I believe we are always pursuing methods. We are pursuing how to make the world better. My background is super humanist. I was graduated in FAUSP. It's always about the ethics of what you are doing, what you are building. So, Ms. Timber for me was the response of this contemporary discussion. of architecture that is how to build the cities of the future. It's pretty obvious that we have to build a lot of cities yet and how to build them with which material and how to build it is the main question that we have to answer. I Speaker 2 (7:03) think that's fascinating, the fact that you've come to mass timber, not from a kind of sustainability point of view, but from a really pragmatic and aesthetic point of view. Most of the people we talk to, it's very much sustainability-led in many ways, and that's probably part of the crowd I hang out with. But I do find, I think it's really important because I think you've hit that pragmatism. It's not just a tourism, it's a way of delivering all of these necessary buildings. I think that's fantastic. Speaker 1 (7:33) Brazilian modernism, we have built a lot of wonderful buildings based on artisanal techniques and at this very moment It's time to change this situation. Here in Brazil, we use the term engineered wood more than mass timber. So we say madeira engenheirada. So the engineered explains a lot. Adding technology to timber, I think, is the most interesting point about this technology and what it brings to Brazil, especially when we look at our potential, because we have always had a... abundant wood and timber all over. But actually, we have never managed to engineer our woods or timber in a very positive or large scale way. So I think mass timber is a powerful answer to it. Speaker 2 (8:30) You've just come back from COP30. We've been talking about the principle for responsible timber construction from Built by Nature. You were there and you could hear the kind of feedback. How does it go down? We know... 15 countries have signed up. We spoke with Joe Giddings recently from Built by Nature, who talked a bit more about the details. Has it been well received? Speaker 1 (8:50) Yeah, I think it was very well received because the principles, they are pragmatic. So I think the importance of the principles is that it writes five main points that you say, oh, I'm strong in point one, three and five, I'm poor in point number. I have to have an action plan for that point. And it's easy to situate yourself, your company, your country. In COP, I think the principles, they help to situate this discussion. too far, how can I get closer? And there were exchanges, for instance, Brazil and Colombia, we have similar situations because we both have Amazon forests in our territory, although we have different approaches. And then we started to talk how we are strong in this point, but we have this problem of deforestation, of land use, and Oh, in Colombia it's the same and how we manage. And also to compare the experiences with very different situations. For instance, if you discuss forests and sustainability, Brazil and Finland. It's very different to discuss, but the principles they help to guide and to create a common language. I think it was super well accepted and it helped a lot. We have also to understand that countries will be in different levels because Europe is 30 years in front of Brazil, which is maybe five years in front of Argentina. We are in different moments Speaker 3 (10:32) and Speaker 1 (10:33) some points. We are naturally stronger and other points, for instance, life cycle analysis, the world of the carbon calculation. Maybe we will need more time to establish the standards, etc. It was amazing, the discussion. Speaker 2 (10:52) So it's very much a kind of leveller for everybody. Yeah, everybody's at their own stage, but they're working towards a common goal. That's really interesting. Speaker 1 (11:00) And also you understand that the challenges, they are similar. But even in the countries where it is developed, it's not the dominant technology. So it also lacks public policy. It also competes with precast or casted on site concrete, which is... always cheaper and the challenges they are similar. It