Pixie Paula: The Striped Pig Story & Disrupting a Multi-Trillion Dollar Industry | AJ Buckley Show

AJ Buckley Show

Host AJ Buckley sits down with Pixie Paula, the owner of Striped Pig Distillery, to discuss her extraordinary journey from childhood poverty

Key takeaways

• Pixie Paula's father survived extreme poverty by living under floorboards in Waterbury, Connecticut.
• Paula faced significant medical challenges, including a brain tumor (prolactinoma) and peritonitis.

Main topics

• Entrepreneurial origins
• Family legacy and resilience

Notable quotes

My mother never knew there was a box.

Conclusion

The episode serves as an inspiring masterclass in resilience, demonstr

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:00) At 58, she took over Striped Pig Distillery and won Distillery of the Year. And Forbes put her on the top 50 over 50. I Speaker 1 (0:08) was the first sexual harassment case for American Express. Speaker 2 (0:11) Are you serious? Speaker 1 (0:12) I mean, I went through so many anomalies of even diseases. I had a prolactinoma, a brain tumor, I had peritonitis. Like all these things that were, she's going to die, she's going to die. You know how many times I've heard she's going to die in my life. Speaker 2 (0:26) In her business, spirits are named. After men, cocktails are named after women. Men are moonshiners and women are witches. I Speaker 1 (0:36) don't know what I was, 22, 23 years old. And they said, who are you? Speaker 2 (0:40) In my opinion, their story is just getting started. This is Pixie Paula. Speaker 2 (0:49) Welcome to the show. I Speaker 1 (0:51) am so delighted to be here. Speaker 2 (0:52) Yeah, this is awesome. And to give some context, Sean, I think you guys were on set a couple last week. And you came over here the next day like, I have the best guest. I just met the most fascinating lady. And I'm like, what? And he's like, you got to meet Miss Pixie. She is a force to be reckoned with. And the last couple of days have just been going through your story, your journey. I was like, Sean, this may be one of our best gets ever. Your story is, there's so many parallels of my life and your life in the sense of our backgrounds and our parents and the closeness that we had with our families and our journey in itself. But you are a force to be reckoned with. And I was raised by a tough Irish woman that did so many incredible things. And a father that... you know, raised me with pain from regret or pain from discipline and the closest that we had as a family. And I'm just really excited to have you on the show today and hear this story of Miss Pixie. So welcome to the show. Thank Speaker 1 (1:58) you so much. Thanks, Sean. Yeah, yes. Appreciate it. Thank Speaker 2 (2:01) you, Sean. It's great to finally, finally you did something for the show. So what I love to do is to go back to the beginning. You know, you're... Working at the hair salon. And was it with Evian? Speaker 1 (2:19) No, Avon. Avon. Back in the day. Back in the day. That was my first. Speaker 1 (2:27) introduction to entrepreneurship. Speaker 2 (2:30) Because Avon, they were the ladies that went door to door, right? Yes. And sold makeup. Yes. And it was at a time, too, where women were not, you know, accepted into the men's workplace. So they created this beauty salon that you got to be sort of front row seats at. Speaker 1 (2:46) Absolutely. And I thought, this is crazy. You just show some lipsticks and people buy it and you make a nickel. Speaker 2 (2:52) Yeah. That Speaker 1 (2:52) was a lot of money for me. You were sweeping Speaker 2 (2:54) hair on the floor and getting a nickel for. Yes. Speaker 1 (2:56) A nickel an hour for sweeping up hair at the hair salon. Did Speaker 2 (3:00) you realize at that point that that was, or looking back at it, that was sort of your first front row seat at being an entrepreneur? Speaker 1 (3:07) Absolutely. I think I saw the distinction between, hey, wait a minute. I'm doing all this work, manual labor. I'm sweeping all this labor for $5, $0.05 an hour. Speaker 2 (3:19) Wow. And Speaker 1 (3:19) somebody just comes in with a magazine, hands that out, take some orders and is making bank. Yeah. Selling lipstick, doing what like everybody in that chair was going to buy a lipstick. They were making so much more money without that physical labor. And I think then the light bulb went off and I'm like, wait a minute. I don't want to be sweeping up hair my whole life. Speaker 2 (3:41) Yeah. You want to take it to the next level. Do you want to know what was ruining my mornings? my alarm clock every single morning. But now with my GhostBed smart adjustable base, it just wakes me up. In the app, I set my alarm and over 20 minutes, it slowly raises me up. It is one of the coolest little gadgets I've ever had in my life. There is no bam, bam, bam. You wake up nice and easy. You wake up with a smile on your face. The day is beautiful when you sleep in a GhostBed. Go to GhostBed.com forward slash Buckley, code word Buckley at the checkout. Get yourself a ghost Speaker 1 (4:15) bed and start your day right. Speaker 2 (4:17) Here at the AG Buckley Show, we just started working with a company called CoreTrex. CoreTrex is an e-commerce team out of Walmart's backyard that takes brands from launch to millions a month. It is a risk-free guarantee. You want to book a strategy call with these guys? I highly recommend it. Go to CoreTrex.com. That's C-O-R-E Speaker 1 (4:37) -T-R-E-X.com. These guys are the game changer. Speaker 2 (4:43) At what point there with like with your parents, what did they work at at that time? Speaker 1 (4:50) My mom dabbled in a lot of entrepreneurial things. And back in her time, she was the first person in her family to complete college. And she that was a big deal. And she tried. Being a realtor, she was one of the old-fashioned operators where you would go in and the operator would plug it in and say, hello, may I direct your call? Oh, no way. Yeah, so that was her job. And my dad used to wake us up in the middle of the night. We'd have to drive down because she worked third shift and we'd have to pick her up. at the phone center and bring her back home and it was like we were in the car in our pajamas but that's what she would do just plug those phones in to connect the phone calls and then she got into woodworking and then in the end she became a librarian aide and that was the love of her life was helping students to really inspire their own entrepreneurial work she liked high school she she liked really getting these kids turned on she volunteered to do all the chaperoning to go to Europe and see the world. Again, back in that time, it was like a big deal for her to do those things. And then my dad was, his story was amazing. He came from absolutely nothing and was basically orphaned his own life, whole life, lived in different shelters. Speaker 1 (6:10) shuffled around from one abusive foster home to another. I read Speaker 2 (6:15) something about the floorboards. Yes. Yeah. Speaker 1 (6:16) And so he and his older brother. ran away and they just decided that it was going to be better for them to take care of themselves to live than to live in these foster homes and in the end he did find one foster home that aunt jean and they gave him like good morals and that helped him out he was on a farm and he just but him and his brother literally ran away and they lived under the floorboards of stores wow And then in the night, they would come up through the floorboards and go and get food so that they could just stay alive. And then he lied about his age to get into the army so that he could have a bed to lay down in. Speaker 2 (6:58) Wow. And where was this at the time? This was Speaker 1 (7:00) in Waterbury, Connecticut. Speaker 2 (7:02) Okay. Speaker 1 (7:03) Yeah. And so he and my grandmother on my mother's side. You may not know this, but Waterbury, Connecticut is known as the Brass City, where all the brass for most of the U.S. was made. So they were making buckles and buttons and all the brass works. So he worked for the Anaconda American Brass Company. Speaker 2 (7:23) Wow. Speaker 1 (7:23) Yeah. And then... Common today, but not back then. He got recruited away by General Motors with, he only went to sixth grade. My father could barely read or write. He could not spell to save his life. It's hilarious trying to decipher his old writings. But he just loved so much and wanted to give so much love to us because he lacked all that. All that he wanted was family. Family, family, family. And so that's, I was fortunate enough to grow up in that. My parents would just say, reach for the stars all the time. And, you know, I wrote an ode to my father when he passed away in 2011. It's been a while now. My mom just passed away. My dad Speaker 2 (8:08) passed away in 2011, December 1st, 2011. Speaker 1 (8:11) Oh, and he was 7-11. I mean, September 7th of 2011. I remember 7-11 from the store. And my mom just passed. And I think about how... what a great gift he gave her and a great gift he gave me because of all the things he didn't say, not the things he said, the things he didn't say. He didn't say, we don't have the money. He didn't say, you can't do that. He didn't say that's out of our league. Speaker 2 (8:39) He Speaker 1 (8:39) didn't say, we don't know how to do that. He just encouraged me no matter what. So I'm now faced with having to write the eulogy for my mom's service next Saturday. And I'm like, all over the place with, what do you say? Speaker 2 (8:55) Yeah. Speaker 1 (8:55) You know, and my mom lived with me the last four years. So we became really close, but I actually had this aha moment this morning. I said, how amazing for her to spend this last decade, a little more than that in being alone so that she could realize her own strengths. And then it clicked on me. Oh, that's what happened to me. I've been alone the last several years. Was kicking and screaming about it. And then I was like, wait, if that was good enough for her, Speaker 2 (9:23) then Speaker 1 (9:24) God knows what's happening, right? Then it's good enough for me. That I can learn my own strengths by being alone. Speaker 2 (9:32) Yeah. My mom went through something similar when my dad died. Because my dad just kind of did a lot of things that she didn't have to. My mom was a child therapist. My dad ran the household. Like, from the cooking to the cleaning to... maintaining everything while my mom had her practice. And it was during that time after he died, she was like, I don't know what to do. And it was this, for us, it was the first time I saw what that looks like when you're alone for the first time. And I promised my dad that I would never, she wouldn't go to a home or anything like that. And he was, I'll tell you, he was... He was a character and the two of them, their love story is out of a movie. But all he cared about was her. Speaker 1 (10:23) Yes. Speaker 2 (10:23) And he chased her around the house and just loved the ground that she walked. And my mom's like, she's like, I don't know why. She's like, I'm a tough woman. And I, she's like, I look up and he just loved her. He just loved the ground that she walked on. Speaker 2 (10:42) When my dad passed away, to see my mom trying to understand how afraid she was of what was next is when it really hit me of like, I get what dad was saying. I get what dad, and he even brought me in the room. He's like, son, I want her to meet somebody else, and I don't want you to protect her over it. I don't want her to be alone. And I want to bring you in the room with mom and have this discussion like that. He's like, so he like set up the thing. It was a couple of days before he died. He's like, I want you to know, like, I want to do this. And this is, this is my dad to a T and my mom's like, no, Joseph, like there'll never be another one. And my dad goes. Trish, I would. And she goes, what? You would? And he goes, yeah. And she'd have big tits. Speaker 1 (11:34) And Speaker 2 (11:35) this is like, he's on, like he's in hospice. Like he is barely like, and the doctor, my wife was in the room. She was a nurse. And man, we were laughing so hard. We started crying and laughing. It was the best. It was the last joke he ever told, but it was like the funniest. It was like my dad's sense of humor. And it just was this love. But it is, it is, it's a crazy thing as. As you grow in those relationships and just as a person on your own. I feel like in what I've read about you, you've just been this force to be reckoned with regardless of what room you've ever been put in. Who growing up do you think was your, that believed in you most or gave you that fire? Speaker 1 (12:14) It's definitely my father. And for the short time that I've known you, we have so many similarities. I love the fact that we have this the most because it's just so crazy. And it's what makes us, you know, who we are. But, and I'll tell you my dad's joke from the grave, but. Same thing. We used to call my mom the princess and the pea because my father took care of everything. Speaker 2 (12:32) I Speaker 1 (12:32) never even thought my father worked because he was there in the morning. He was working the opposite shift of whenever she was working so he could do the cleaning and the cooking and the picking us up from school and volunteer for the softball and the basketball. And we had to go bowling every Saturday. Like I did all the things. High single, high double, high triple. Like all the things he just instilled the sports in us and everything and the growth. And again, what a gift he gave by being the first to pass because she. had to come to terms with what do I do? Like you said, I don't know how to do any of this. And then towards the end, she suffered so much and went through so many amazing things. She really had nine lives, same as me, nine lives that she got to just become this strong, independent women, woman. And I'm, I miss her so much just because, you know, it's your mom, you know, and it's just so hard. And yet I was closer with my dad, but now having her. So many gifts on so many levels. Like, you know, God just knows what he's doing. So his joke from the Grey Boys, he used to always make fun of us because we're so loud and aggressive and passionate and, you know, I'm Italian, so I'll talk if I have to sit on my hands. All of this stuff, and he'd always say, oh, forgive them. Just forgive them. They're Italian. Or, like, ignore them. They're Italian. Or, they Speaker 2 (13:42) know not what they do. They're Italian. Speaker 1 (13:44) So we heard this all our life growing up. Well, after 23andMe came out and I went online and I did, you know, I sent in my saliva, did the whole thing. And it came back that I was like 99.9 % Italian. And I was like, mom, okay, either dad is not my dad or dad. Remember orphan. We didn't know who his father was. Dad. was Italian. No way. Yes. And so that was the joke from the grave is like all the whole life he's been apologizing for us being Italian. He was Italian. That's Speaker 2 (14:16) so funny. One of my good buddies, Jimmy Matteo, he's Italian. And he'd always, he always, St. Patrick, he calls me up and he's like, Irish, I was Italian. It's just, it's always, because the Irish and the Italians, they're, I mean, my, you know, I immigrated from Ireland when I was six, went to Canada and came down to America. when I was 17, but you know, our heritage, our family came across it just as yours came across on the boats and like during that time. So I, I feel like, and we talked about it a little bit upstairs before the show, you know, like I shouldn't be where I'm at right now. Statistically, I should not, you know, and I, I a hundred percent give that to how hard my parents worked. And. But I never went without as a child. I never felt like they weren't there. Like I was, we didn't have money, but we were rich in family. So I was like, and just what you said there, like my dad worked at night and, but I didn't, like he was a janitor. He was a carpenter. He was a tailor. He was a jack of all trades. That's actually his hammer right there. So that's, he built most of our houses with that. And if you look closely on it. on the paint. I'll show you after the show. You can see his fingerprints on the thing. That was the one hammer he probably built three or four thousand. Duct tape and a hammer, my dad, and he was always covered in like sheetrock and dust and paint. He just was the guy. Speaker 1 (15:40) Yeah. Speaker 2 (15:40) And, but he, I lost my train of thought there, but what was I saying there? Speaker 1 (15:46) You didn't have anything. Oh yeah. Yeah. Same sort of thing. Speaker 2 (15:50) And, but I think as a parent now where I, I, really dive into it more is that I don't know how they did it. I Speaker 1 (16:00) don't know how they did it. Speaker 2 (16:01) I don't know Speaker 1 (16:02) how I did it. And Speaker 2 (16:03) that's Speaker 1 (16:03) what Speaker 2 (16:03) I was going to say. Like you have nine kids. Yeah. Nine kids. Yeah. I mean that's just – that's the nine that you birthed on your own. Speaker 1 (16:13) Yes. Speaker 2 (16:14) One at a time. That's a true Irish family right there. That's Speaker 1 (16:17) a Speaker 2 (16:17) true Irish family. I mean that journey in itself of you going through that and the journey that you've been on through there as a – As a mom going – having nine kids and finding your way as an entrepreneur and figuring out like when did the fire start in you of like I'm going to – because the story I really – it really stuck with me was you. walking into the American Express office, you're pregnant, correct? Speaker 1 (16:52) Yes. Speaker 2 (16:52) And back then, being a woman, being pregnant, and going for a job interview is reasons that you wouldn't get hired out of the way. Speaker 1 (17:00) That's right. And I was young. Speaker 2 (17:01) You were young. Speaker 1 (17:02) Just over 21, 22 years old. So walk Speaker 2 (17:04) me through it, because that would have stopped you getting the job right there, but how did, like... Oh, yeah, they Speaker 1 (17:07) tried to talk me out of it. Speaker 2 (17:08) Really? Yeah, Speaker 1 (17:09) they did. And then, so... Back to my dad, I did not know we were poor either. I didn't have the understanding that, oh, my God, we're poor until I was in high school. Speaker 2 (17:20) And Speaker 1 (17:20) then I realized, oh, I went to a great Catholic private school, Notre Dame, and I was like, oh, yeah. First time I ever saw my dad cry was when I was going to high school because he was so afraid that he wouldn't be able to provide for me what those other girls had. So he didn't want me to go to that school because he just said, I can't, I don't want to disappoint you. And I said, dad, I will do this on my own. And I did. Speaker 2 (17:45) And Speaker 1 (17:45) so finished school, finished college, pregnant, have a couple of kids. And my parents had a financial advisor. And he said to me, it is amazing what you do with money. You should be in financial planning. And let me tell you what I did with money. So every Saturday when I grew up, my father would give my sister and my brother and I a dollar every Saturday. My siblings would be like, let me go to the dime store downtown. And they would spend their money. I saved my money. I just saved it and saved it and saved it. And then I would have like, well, I could turn this into 20 nickels. And then is that really more money? And I just was fascinated with numbers my whole life. Speaker 2 (18:22) So Speaker 1 (18:23) math has always been my skill. And so when I saw their financial advisor and I saw what they were doing and I saw how much my father did on so little, I just was like, I want to understand this money game. Speaker 2 (18:34) And Speaker 1 (18:35) he said, I mean, I had saved like $25,000, $30,000. And I was like 21 years old. That was a lot. Speaker 2 (18:45) That is a lot. From Speaker 1 (18:46) way back then. That's a lot regardless. I mean, I hadn't had a real job yet. Speaker 2 (18:51) So Speaker 1 (18:51) I just saved those dollars. And so he said, at least go in and take the test Speaker 2 (18:57) to Speaker 1 (18:57) get a Series 7, to get a stockbroker license. So I went in and interviewed with the regional vice president of American Express, James Bailey. And he was sitting back smoking a cigar. You can smoke a cigar in the office then. Speaker 2 (19:09) And Speaker 1 (19:09) he was like, and he puts his feet up on the desk and he's like, why in the heck would we hire you? And I said, because I'm going to move more money through this office than anybody else. And he said, oh, you know what? Go take the test. I can't stop you from taking the test. Called me a couple of days later. You scored higher on this test than anybody in this office. And then he said, I'm going to send you off. Went to, back in the day, it was go to a Boston sweat lodge. You sat for a series seven. You filled in all the ovals. And I'm pregnant. And I'm about to deliver a baby, like, literally any day now. I had to pee so bad. And I'm sitting there. And I went up. And I'm like, I've got to go to the bathroom. I've got to go. They're like, if you leave the room, you fail the test. I'm like, are you kidding? I'm like, you see this belly? Speaker 2 (19:51) Yeah. Speaker 1 (19:52) I'm like, this is baby number five here. Like, I cannot hold this bladder. And he said, you leave the room. You forfeit the test. So I went back to my seat. And I paid. I finished that test. Yep. You paid Speaker 2 (20:03) right. Speaker 1 (20:03) I paid right in that chair. I love you. I look back. Speaker 2 (20:06) That Speaker 1 (20:06) is so gangster. I Speaker 2 (20:07) look Speaker 1 (20:07) back behind because they're in the old school desks, you know, with the little thing that people are. And I'm like, oh, it's a little bit of a slanty floor back there. I'm like, that guy might want to open his legs. I see my little trickle going down Speaker 2 (20:17) the floor. Speaker 1 (20:17) That is awesome. You're like, Speaker 2 (20:18) you think you're going to break me? You're not. Speaker 1 (20:20) You're not. And I passed that test. And it's hard as the bar exam. So I was really excited. I was the only girl in that room. Speaker 2 (20:29) And Speaker 1 (20:29) I think I knew then that, well, I knew, but I knew then how important it was for me to break those barriers and just to say, hey, I belong here in this room with all these guys taking this test. And I have a huge respect for how money moves people and politics and the universe. And I just want to be part of it. Speaker 2 (20:54) My mom, which I'm excited for you to meet one day, she was the very first woman to be allowed. She was in PR. This is actually when her and my dad, they were together and they split up for a year or two. And during that time, my mom got a job at this PR agency. She became the first woman who was allowed to go into the interview, the soccer players and go into the male soccer room. She approached it as, anytime I've asked her, was that I actually never thought that I didn't belong. Speaker 1 (21:27) Yeah. Like Speaker 2 (21:28) she's like, I never, when people were all, she's like, what do you, I'm, this is my job. I'm supposed to be in here. And she just sort of forced their hand. She didn't like say, excuse me. She just walked in the room and she's like, I'm, this is my job. And if the other reporters are in there, then I'm a reporter. I'm in PR and I'm going in to get the interview. I'm not waiting outside. So she didn't give them the chance to do that. And again, it was just all these parallels. Like, wow, that's exact. My mom just had this chutzpah. But it wasn't out of a proving thing. It was like, I'm not giving you a thought of like, she showed up and everyone was like, oh, she walked in like she owned the place and gave him no reason not to. Speaker 1 (22:08) The same thing happened. So I helped to redesign American Express in 94. And I was I didn't have enough credibility. I didn't I didn't have any of the credentials for the job, but I filled out the application and I sent it in. And Harvey Gala was the president of CEO, the CEO of American Express at the time. And he called me up and he's like, you realize you don't qualify for this job. I go. how do you know? And he goes, well, cause you, you don't have any of the credentials that we said you need to fill out the application. He said, but I wanted to talk to you cause you filled out the application anyway. I said, I did that. So I got asked to be part of the, well, you know what? We like your chutzpah. And so I got asked to be part of the design team. It was really amazing. And I, at the time, like it was a big deal to meet the CEO of American express and go hang out with Jeff Stiefler and like all these, um, Doug, like it was just, that was a good old times. It was just a simpler world back then. And where Speaker 2 (23:02) are you in the country at this point? So Speaker 1 (23:05) now I'm going to Minneapolis. Yeah. Yeah. It's Chaska, Chaska, Traz. And that just Speaker 2 (23:10) sounds cold. Speaker 1 (23:11) And it was Speaker 2 (23:12) so cold. Speaker 1 (23:13) I mean, people would be so then, so I got appointed to be a trainer for American Express. So they were starting to lean into emotional competence. And Dan Goldman had wrote his book about emotional IQ. And we all got trained on how to, try to grow up these financial advisors because if we could teach them the emotional skills of managing entrepreneurship and getting through the ups and downs of building the practice, then they had a better likelihood of having a success in the business. And they didn't want a turnover rate. So I got asked to train. And so now I'm in Chaska, Chaska at Oak Ridge University in Minneapolis. And I loved Speaker 2 (23:48) it. Speaker 1 (23:49) I just love, I love being in a room with all these people. And, you know, You don't know, like, are you good or not good? But then they do those surveys at the end. And I would get all five stars. As a matter of fact, I don't think many people know about this, but I was the first sexual harassment case for American Express. Speaker 2 (24:06) Are you serious? Speaker 1 (24:07) So here's what happened. Do you want to know? Yeah. So here I am working and I'm doing all this and I get a call from HR at Amex. years into my career of teaching and and I would get calls from my students who would say you totally changed my life that's the barometer of knowing yeah your students come back I was a teacher so when the little kids are saying that it's great little kids I taught um eighth grade when the big adults are coming back saying you changed my life you know that you're on the right path so I get a call and they tell me that hey you know you've had these five star reviews when they do all these and I go yeah I I'm I'm a good teacher And I love my students. They said, well, we're finding that your male counterparts who don't have as high scores as you are getting paid way more than you. And I said, I don't really care. I love my job. And they're like, oh, no, we care. So I said, but I don't care. And they're like, you don't have a choice. So I got made an example of for the fact that I was doing quality work better than quality work, getting higher scores on my delivery and my input and getting paid way less than my male counterparts. So they went through all that drama. They eliminated all those positions. I got a big check in the mail. I didn't even want it, but I realize now how important it was that it was me. Speaker 2 (25:37) I'm Speaker 1 (25:37) going to cry. I haven't thought about this in so many, three decades. And so I was the poster child for discrimination, and I really do believe about it's equal pay for equal work. Speaker 2 (25:48) 100%. It Speaker 1 (25:49) has nothing to do with what you're. He, she, them. It doesn't matter. It's equal pay for equal work. And I put the work in. Yeah. Speaker 2 (25:57) Right. Speaker 1 (25:57) I went and applied for those jobs, whether they thought I was qualified or not. I pushed. Speaker 2 (26:03) Yeah. What I loved about your story so much is like my whole life, where I related to is like my whole life I've been an underdog. Everything I've had to fight tooth and nail for. It's never come easy. And I used to hate it. But I, you know, times I look back, I'm like, it defined me more. Because one, I found out how bad I wanted something. And I feel like within your story, what I loved was this. It felt like you were always underestimated of what you were. What you brought to the table and this fire that you had within you, what was your sort of mindset in there? Did you feel like it was an advantage every time? You're like, oh, these guys are underestimating what I'm about, what the pixie is about to do. Speaker 1 (26:51) I definitely, from the time that I was two years old, would feel that I had this direct connection. I was like tuned in and turned on with the universe. So I felt like I had these magic powers. Oh, Speaker 2 (27:00) tell me. Tell me. Me too. Speaker 1 (27:02) Yeah. You know, I was listening to the voices, but they weren't telling me to kill the women and children and little doggies. It was just, you know, reach, reach, reach. You could do that. And so I just understood what manifestation was and how nobody was going to tell me no. You know, my kids always say, people will say, oh, your mother never stayed in the box. And they're like, my mother never knew there was a box. So I love that about them appreciating that for me. So I had this drive, you know, the passion and that fire. And then somewhere along the way, I should know who said this, but the thing about you never want to be the biggest in the room. You always want to be the least in the room. That was always my motto. Speaker 2 (27:44) And Speaker 1 (27:45) so I wanted to learn. I had this insatiable desire to learn and get better and to grow. Be the hardest Speaker 2 (27:52) working in the room. Yeah. Speaker 1 (27:54) I just always wanted to get to that next level. Not even from a perspective of like today, you know, everybody's trying to be okay and get the likes and get accepted. No. For me, I knew my intellectual value. And I was, this was like my creativity was a way to play with my intelligence. Like I just wanted to see what I could do. Speaker 2 (28:16) Yeah. All Speaker 1 (28:17) the time. And so I just reached. Yeah. Speaker 2 (28:20) I think a lot of what's lost today too with people, what you were saying there, people like they want the likes. And instead of staying true to what they're, who they are and telling that story, they. They do things that they think will, this will make me go viral. What makes you go viral, what makes you interesting is your authentic self. And there's, no one enjoys the hero story. People want to see the struggle. People want to see you overcome. Flawed and all. Like, take me as I am. You know, as opposed to the perfect shot, the perfect story. It's like, that's, that's so, it's so. fake and the struggle and the get up and get after and that fight you know it's like you know what's that it's like you might not be the the biggest dog in the fight but