Doug Ellin: Entourage, The Pitch That Changed Everything & Why He Left LA | AJ Buckley Show

AJ Buckley Show

AJ Buckley sits down with Entourage creator Doug Ellin to discuss his recent move from Los Angeles to Nashville and South::Carolina. The pai

Key takeaways

• Doug Ellin relocated to Nashville/South Carolina to escape rising crime rates and the instability of Los Angeles.
• Ellin shares the unexpected joy and challenge of becoming a father again at age 55.

Main topics

• Relocating from Los Angeles
• Hollywood career origins

Notable quotes

You raise your kids to get to a point where they don't need you anymore.

Conclusion

A nostalgic and heartfelt exploration of how personal life shifts and

Transcript preview

Speaker 1 (0:00) Welcome back to the AJ Buckley show. So just to give you a heads up what you're about to hear are some archived episodes of The show formerly real fake seal which became the AJ Buckley show So when you hear the intro real fake seal sex appeal, that's where this all began So some of these episodes we did when we transferred over Were taken down And you, the fans, that said, hey, I wanted to hear the Gary Sinise episode or the Dallas Alexander or some of the other amazing guests that we had on the show. So, producer Sean said, your wish is his command. And here you go. So, this is still the A.J. Buckley Show, but it's the formerly Real Fake Seal Archive episodes. Enjoy the Speaker 2 (0:47) show, and I will see you next Tuesday. On Speaker 1 (0:50) this episode, you're going to meet... a really good friend of mine, Mr. Doug Ellen. Now, Doug Ellen, he wrote and created one of those iconic television shows of all time, Entourage. Now, Doug is a brilliant storyteller. He's sharp as they come and someone I am incredibly grateful to call a friend. In this episode, we talk about his childhood, his journey up into the point where he gets the opportunity to actually... make the show Entourage. It is hysterical. There's so many gems behind the scenes, stories that you will absolutely laugh your ass off. So thank you, Doug, again, for coming by and taking time out of your day to do it. It means the world to you. You're a guy that always shows up for everybody. So everybody at home, sit back, relax, crack a beer, and enjoy this next episode of Real Fake Seal with Mr. Doug Allen. I am so sick and tired of paying. monthly subscriptions for things that don't work. The GhostBed Climate Pro. Cooling and heating in a bed, no app fee, no monthly service. You buy it once, and it's yours. The GhostBed Climate Pro drops in November. Go to GhostBed.com forward slash Buckley and sign up now. Mr. Doug Ellen. What's up? Thank you. It's great to see you. So before I start the show, you're the first person I'm doing this for, but the reason why I was a few minutes behind because... One of the things I love following you on Instagram for is your food critic. Speaker 2 (2:17) And Speaker 1 (2:17) you're always like, so I was like, I know there's this, I've heard of this New York bagel place. In Nashville. And I was like, I don't know if he's been there yet because you're new to Nashville. So I took an Uber to this place called H &S Bagels. Have you been to this place? Speaker 2 (2:31) You know, it's so funny because yesterday, I haven't had a bagel since I got to Nashville. Yesterday, I was like, I should go get bagels, but I didn't. You're the man. Speaker 1 (2:37) They're not a sponsor of the show. They have the best egg bagels. I Speaker 2 (2:41) appreciate this very much. I got Speaker 1 (2:43) you half a dozen. And then the guy told me there's this spread. It's like this thing. So I got you half a dozen and these other things. So for you. Speaker 1 (2:53) Thank you. Very surreal moment. Cause I'm Speaker 2 (2:55) serious. Yesterday I said, you know what I think I'm going to get tomorrow is I'm going to try a bagel place. And I swear to God, I have not had a bagel. I've been here about 12 weeks. I've not had a bagel. There you go. I'm in there. Speaker 1 (3:05) I went and I went in and it was like, I'm like, so I hear it. And the guy was like, Oh, we're, we're like, this is the, this is the place for New York. And I look around, everybody's got like a Yankee hat on. I'm like, there's a bunch of, where is it? It's downtown. I don't know Nashville very well. I'll get you the address. H &S Bagels is the name of them. Speaker 2 (3:21) Thank you. It Speaker 1 (3:22) felt Speaker 2 (3:22) like... Felt authentic. It did. All right. I'm excited. Speaker 1 (3:25) And when the patrons have Yankee hats on, you're like, okay. Speaker 2 (3:29) I love it. I love it. So I don't know where I am in Nashville ever, which is so sad because you put everything in the navigation system and I never have any idea where I am. But there's this place that they've got two. And the first one I went to, someone goes, I'm always looking for good Italian food, which, no offense to Nashville, it's not the most common. greatness here. So someone's like, you gotta go to this place, Tutti DiGio, and I drive 45 minutes to a truck stop. I'm not exaggerating. To walk into a place like this big where they have like four or five items on the menu. I get spaghetti and meatballs. They hand it to me in like a tinfoil thing with like a Speaker 1 (4:01) really Speaker 2 (4:02) cheap plastic fucking fork. Speaker 1 (4:04) And Speaker 2 (4:04) I ate this, and it was great. Yeah. Great. And then I find out they actually have more of a restaurant. Yeah. Speaker 1 (4:10) And Speaker 2 (4:10) I believe that's about five minutes from here, I think. So try that. I Speaker 1 (4:14) think you would give Dave Portnoy a run for his money as a food critic. Speaker 2 (4:18) I know I would, Speaker 1 (4:19) but he did it first. Speaker 2 (4:21) People say it all the time. But Speaker 1 (4:22) he did it first, but you've been doing it unknowingly like way before he did it. No joke. I will be. on a plane or it'll be somewhere and your feet will come up and I will crack up your shit. So even if you did this one thing where like your pickleball and you walked into the pickleball place here in Nashville and there's like nobody here, you're like. Yeah. I mean, literally Saturday Speaker 2 (4:48) at Speaker 1 (4:48) 10 a.m. and not a single person in like 20 courts. And it's, it's the crate. Cause you are, you've become like a pickleball. Fanatic. I mean, you know, I'm Speaker 2 (4:59) 57. I need a hip replacement. I have a hernia. So I'm not moving quite like I'd like to be moving. But it's my it's like my mental health. You know, it frees me of life. Have Speaker 1 (5:11) you got to. go to Kid Rock's? I Speaker 2 (5:14) have not, no. Speaker 1 (5:15) Here he's got like an epic... Speaker 2 (5:16) Yeah, I've seen it and I have a bunch of friends who've played there. Yeah, yeah. I need to play with them at some point for sure. And you've Speaker 1 (5:21) literally played with some of the top guys. Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:23) yeah. Oh, yeah. I mean, I started playing pickleball with the people who are the best in the world now. And Speaker 1 (5:28) again, you were kind of ahead of that curve too. I was way ahead. Way ahead. Speaker 2 (5:31) Yeah, I was posting pickleball videos and people were laughing at me like, you old loser, why don't you get a real sport? Speaker 1 (5:37) When I remember seeing your feed, I was like, oh, what is this? It was like a whole... A whole new thing. And I started playing it in South Carolina. I actually was like three or four years ago. Speaker 1 (5:52) I was in Texas and I was filming and there was a thing called Chicken and Pickle. Yeah, Speaker 2 (5:59) they have Speaker 1 (6:00) them all over. And this was like they hadn't done anything like that. So I went back to South Carolina and I walked to a couple of buddies of mine. I'm like, I think we should like open up like a restaurant pickleball thing. And everyone's like, nah, this is not good. I'm like, no. And like one guy, we went and looked at the space and it was just like. I'm like, all we need is four walls and a roof. Yeah. That's all we need. And then I'm like, and if we don't want to do the liquor license, we'll get like food trucks to like come and just be there. And Speaker 2 (6:29) we Speaker 1 (6:29) just rotate the food trucks because Charleston has amazing food. And they're like, I don't see. And within, I'd say a year, year and a half. Yeah. They came down and they're everywhere and they're booked out. Yeah. I Speaker 2 (6:40) mean, it's definitely a tough business either way, but it was definitely the growing thing three, four years ago, you know? I mean, but they're the one here. Pickleball Kingdom, which I don't know. I don't know who's playing pickleball out there that doesn't know about it. But in Hendersonville, I mean, it's empty all the time. So go play there. Yeah. And find me some good players. So how Speaker 1 (6:59) did you end up in Nashville? Because I was giving you a hard press for South Carolina. Yeah, which it's not over. Speaker 2 (7:04) I'm not done. I don't know what I'm doing. Speaker 1 (7:05) Yeah, because I introduced you to Caleb, and Caleb is like. Yep, he's awesome. He's the best guy ever. Yeah. And it is, like, when we moved to South Carolina, it's just, it's literally. Like we lived in Manhattan Beach in Los Angeles. And then when we moved to South Carolina, which was totally surprising because we came here and we were 0 for 11 on offers. Everything that we put an offer in, we got outbid 30 % over ask, 14-day close, site on scene, all cash. And I was like, I thought my realtor was like screwing with me. And I'm like, I can't play this game. I can't. And it wasn't like we were like, it was crazy amount of money. Yeah. But they were like, sign on. And we go in there like there's no offers. I'm like, no offers. The second we went and looked within an hour of they're like, someone's coming. Can you like? No. But we ended up going to South Carolina to go visit a dear friend and mentor of mine, Dave Robinson. And while we were there, he's like, hey, man, while you're here, why don't you just go up my realtor? Speaker 2 (8:08) And I was like, ah, Speaker 1 (8:09) Charleston. You know, I did a movie there when I was younger. I was chasing girls and drinking all the time. And I was like, this Speaker 2 (8:15) is not a place to race. Because he's like, no, downtown Speaker 1 (8:17) Charleston, maybe not so much, but Mount Pleasant, Speaker 2 (8:19) kid heaven. Speaker 1 (8:20) It's just families. And we went out, looked at a house. We looked at three houses. The one that we looked at was a pocket listing. The guy was representing himself. Walked in there, and I was like, this is it. And we were moving my mom in at the time because she had Parkinson's. Speaker 1 (8:36) So we needed a place to have her, a place for her to live. Yeah. And, but also to have our space as well. And this had it all. And it was on the water. Oh, it's amazing. And it just like, and our 1600 square foot condo was like three times the price of what this was. And I was like, what? How much is this? And it was just before that boom happened down there. Before basically all of New York moved down to South Carolina. Speaker 1 (9:05) It was great, man. So how did you end up in Nashville? So, I mean, you know, COVID just shifted the whole Speaker 2 (9:12) world besides the fact that, you know, I don't know if you know, I own like Jimmy Kahn's old house, Scott, you know. Oh, you did? Yeah. So Scott, who's, you know, one of my close friends and a friend of yours. I went to look at this house 10 years ago and I was like, this is just like my house. Is that the one that was Speaker 1 (9:32) with the... The pool in the backyard that you redid it? Yep. Yeah. Yep. I redid the whole thing. Yeah. Had the drop off or something. Remember somebody fell down the, remember? Speaker 2 (9:40) Oh, did you, the workers? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that was the sickest thing ever. Yeah. The entire, Speaker 1 (9:44) what Speaker 2 (9:45) do you call it? Yeah. Fucking collapsed. Yeah. Like four guys on it. It was, it was absolutely insane. And it's all on video from the thing. That was. That was terrifying. Thank God nobody was hurt. It was a miracle. Obviously, scaffolding. Obviously, I had nothing to do with it. But anyway, I bought that house 10 years ago. And I honestly thought if I made $10 billion, I would never leave this house. That's how much I love the house. And COVID happens. And all of a sudden, you know, my house got broken into, which I didn't lock the doors for the first five years I was there. And LA just started. changing fast, you know, and, you know, everyone like wants to pretend with the media that it's just the media talking about it. It's fucking Speaker 1 (10:30) not. I mean, it got, it got bad. I Speaker 2 (10:32) mean, almost everyone I know has had their house broken into in the last. Two years. Worse than that, I know people who were involved in some violent crime that they were victims of, which I never knew in the 30 years I was there. So it really started getting serious. And whatever, you're in the city. I grew up in New York. You know, things. But you Speaker 1 (10:50) work your ass off to get to a place where you can come home and feel like you don't have to lock your doors. You feel like you can, you've created. safety in Speaker 2 (11:02) a Speaker 1 (11:02) sense in the world that you've built for yourself. And then that's just, and then if you call 911, it's 45 minutes. Well, Speaker 2 (11:09) then that started happening. And I mean, but by the way, this was crazy. I mean, I was in, I was away and, you know, I have my ring cameras and stuff and I always get alerts. Oh, someone's on your balcony, whatever. And it's actually, I had eaten a couple of edibles too. So I'm like, I'm like, someone's on your balcony. I click it and there's two guys. on my balcony kicking in my door with masks on and shit. It's like kind of, you know, especially your high. It's like really fucking surreal. Like I'm watching Law and Order, you know, and there's a mic there that you can, you can talk to Speaker 1 (11:36) them on the Speaker 2 (11:37) mic too. So I'm like, I'm like, I hit the mic. I go, get the fucking gun. Shoot everybody. Don't ask any fucking questions, whatever. They, they, they can almost tell that like, they don't give a shit. Like none of this matters. And they went into my house, whatever. And it's not, you know, thank God no one was home. Big deal. You got robbed. But it really does give you, it takes away a sense of security. So that was one. Speaker 1 (11:59) And Speaker 2 (12:00) then the fires happened. And, you know, people just started fleeing. And people were leaving during COVID, as you know, because that's why Nashville is so expensive. And that's why South Carolina, Florida, Texas are all flying. It was Speaker 1 (12:14) like, my realtor said, I was the last house he sold before it went. bananas. Like I got any, he was like, literally, you cannot get what we like the three X like overnight. Congrats to you because I'm, Speaker 2 (12:28) I think I'm at about house number one 50 here, but it's crazy. And you know, I, I wrote an episode of entourage where the guys find out from their account, they can spend a million dollars on a house and they're like, Holy shit, we're getting a million dollar house. And then they realized a million dollar house in LA. Even then, 20 years Speaker 1 (12:45) ago, it was like a teardown. Is that the scene where he's come down the escalator? His business manager's like, why are you buying the... Speaker 2 (12:50) You know what? I don't even remember. What I do remember the cut to, we got a million dollars, and then the cut is like this house that looks like, you know, Shantytown. But, you know, Nashville, you know, it's... I know we live in a world where you don't want to hear first world problems anymore. You sound like a jerk off when you start talking about it. But I honestly thought I had enough money to come to Nashville. And like, I'm in an estate. I'm going to have two pickleball courts with lights. I'm going to have, you know, Speaker 1 (13:18) everything I need. Speaker 2 (13:20) Nashville's expensive. Like this is, you know, you don't walk around here going, oh my God, look what you get for this. It's kind of the same thing now. And I think one of the problems in the country right now is that everywhere Speaker 1 (13:32) is becoming. It's so, it's, it's so in, in, in like to the square footage and not only that to like what we would, what it costs to like renovate the house when we first moved in. Oh yeah. Three times now. Yeah. Speaker 2 (13:48) Oh, Speaker 1 (13:49) it's crazy. Speaker 2 (13:49) And that's why the building here, there's so many builders here. Yeah. But they kind Speaker 1 (13:53) of build Speaker 2 (13:53) a lot of shit. Speaker 1 (13:55) Yeah. Because it's so expensive to build. And it's hard for guys, it's hard for workers to show up. Yeah. Like good workers to consistently, like if you're, like when we had this, we went through like three contractors. And again, first world problems. But it was the first time I was ever really redoing anything. And we had knocked down a bunch of walls. We wanted to have this sort of open floor plan. But it was a structural thing. So Speaker 2 (14:15) the Speaker 1 (14:16) engineer that we met with was like, oh yeah, this is no problem. He's like 30 grand to do the thing. I'm like, great, perfect. I get a call in LA filming. He's like, ah, so slight change. Speaker 2 (14:28) Yeah. Speaker 1 (14:29) He's like, we got to bring in like steel beams now. Cause they take it. I'm like, okay. And I'm like, what's, I'm like, what's, uh, what's the price of it? He's like, you're not going to like this. I'm like, you've Speaker 2 (14:40) already taken everything out. Like you're the engineer. Speaker 1 (14:43) But yeah, it was like, what was like a hundred. 120,000 more than what? I'm like 30 to 100. How do you miscalculate? That's Speaker 2 (14:50) why Speaker 1 (14:50) building a house Speaker 2 (14:51) is torture. But you know, it's like that scene in Vacation. Remember Vacation? They take Chevy Chase's car and he's like, give me my old car back. And they're destroying it already. And that's what they do. I mean, it's very easy to demolition a house and then it's a lot harder. But, you know, one of the problems with the world right now is that... Speaker 1 (15:08) Materials are so expensive. Yeah, the wood. Work is so expensive. Speaker 2 (15:11) Everything is costing somebody so much. So it's, honestly, I haven't found a house here that I even like. Yeah. Speaker 1 (15:17) You know, Speaker 2 (15:17) I'm like. South Speaker 1 (15:18) Carolina, South Carolina. Speaker 2 (15:19) I mean, I don't think South Carolina is cheap. It's Speaker 1 (15:22) not, and it's no shit on Nashville. I love coming here, but I just, I love South Carolina. You looking to amp up your ride? Total Off-Road and more has got you covered. Whether you're shopping for custom wheels, lighting, or you just need something installed like a spray-on bed liner, they're your one-stop shop for all off-road, performance, and automotive needs. Find a location near you at TotalOffRoad.com. Total Off-Road, where every ride becomes an adventure. I was talking about this with a buddy of mine last night at dinner. Speaker 1 (16:02) He lost his house in a fire. In a fire. That's why he's out here now. He's in this still. Their insurance was canceled unbeknownst to them. Before the fire. Speaker 2 (16:16) A Speaker 1 (16:16) month before because they pulled out because. Newsom hadn't done the proper things to make like, they were like, we're not going to ensure this because you're actually not, you're, you're, you're creating like a, like a fire pit here. You're not maintaining, cutting the grass or doing the things that you need to do or whatever it was. And, and the water thing is not, there was all these things. He's like, you're, we're not, we can't ensure this, Speaker 2 (16:40) but Speaker 1 (16:41) half the people didn't know that, that this got canceled. And like they lost everything. And now there's some. That's why, you know, Speaker 2 (16:49) everybody's got big, you know, there's always someone with bigger problems. But what I will say is my house and all the insurance has gone up 500%. Did you move to the desert Speaker 1 (17:01) then too? Speaker 2 (17:01) No, I had a. I had a house in the desert for a little bit. And then I've realized I've come to the conclusion. So the big reason I moved to Nashville is because I had a baby, which was an unexpected miracle. And God bless, it's the best thing that ever happened to me. But at 55 years old, that was not the game plan. Speaker 1 (17:18) You're still shooting straight, by the way. It's Speaker 2 (17:19) all working properly. But, you know, I'm like... So part of me was like, I just want this baby to grow up in a different way than my older kids did in L.A., even though they had a great childhood. But I just, you know, so but I don't know yet where it's going to shake out. I'm not. Yeah, I'm kind of on like a four year plan as she's in preschool with like, Speaker 1 (17:40) let's try some different places and see where we end up. How has it been, you know? because obviously I've got a daughter and you have a daughter as well. So you have two daughters and a son, right? And so I've got two, I've got twin boys and a daughter. But my daughter was my first and I became more emotional. Speaker 2 (17:59) I Speaker 1 (18:00) cry at like anything that she does, even though she's this like little badass. I just, she can do no wrong in my eyes. And it's just like, there's just something about. even though she's older now too, but when I get like, they like, she's 11. Speaker 2 (18:16) So, Speaker 1 (18:16) but it's at that age, you know, like, you know, and it's, it's the hardest thing, you know, I was saying this the other day, it was like, I heard somebody say, this is like you, you, and it breaks me inside, but you raise your kids. to get to a point where they don't need you anymore yeah and it's horrible but you got to do it it's like and Speaker 2 (18:37) it's Speaker 1 (18:37) such a and and in retrospect too it's like man i've said to my wife and she was like no she's like i kind of wish we had more kids yeah and she's like no we're good and well they're expensive they're so expensive and but it's just the magic of christmas and like yeah Easter and the tooth fairy and like these things and the way that they see the world and the questions that they ask. It's like you can be having the worst day and then you'll hear daddy and you're like, it's the best. It's the best thing in the world. And you Speaker 2 (19:05) know, Speaker 1 (19:05) and you have like a little partner like you can go like going to get ice cream is so fun because the way they're like, they see the things and like, you know, or just going to the movies again and getting popcorn and seeing like them like. They have to like reach. It's the best. I can't Speaker 2 (19:20) wait. Halloween. Cause Halloween is going to be crazy. Nashville here. The place. This Speaker 1 (19:24) is Speaker 2 (19:24) your first Halloween in Nashville. Yeah. And it's, I mean, where I live, every house is decked Speaker 1 (19:28) out and it's supposedly, Speaker 2 (19:30) allegedly, I'm not kidding. People told me, cause I'm renting a house. The landlord told me to expect between 700 and a thousand kids at Speaker 1 (19:38) my house. Yeah. Speaker 2 (19:39) If you saw the amount of candy that I bought, I mean, it's more than my insurance in LA for the candy that I Speaker 1 (19:44) fucking Speaker 2 (19:45) got for this Halloween. What Speaker 1 (19:46) are you dressing up as? Speaker 2 (19:47) Well, I just do what my baby tells me. But she's Elsa from Frozen, so I have to be Olaf. Oh, great. And that's been like months. And she practices, by the way, trick-or-treating, which, by the way. Not to, like, it's weird in Nashville, but she's never eaten candy, and she's not going to either on this Halloween. I've already Speaker 1 (20:05) told her. We have this thing, Bella, Speaker 2 (20:07) this amazing thing, the Switch Witch. Take your candy and turn it into a toy. So Speaker 1 (20:11) I saw it was, like, on Jimmy Kimmel or one of the things. Oh, Speaker 2 (20:14) is Speaker 1 (20:14) that where it's from? Yeah, I saw the thing. But I'm telling you, so the kids come home, they'll get a couple things, but then they do the Switch Witch, which is, like, you put it out, and then they get, and it. The first year, they're like, but when they woke up in the morning, it was almost like ran down like, oh, Speaker 2 (20:31) my goodness. Speaker 1 (20:32) It's way better. Because, you know, one, I'm freaked out with all the, like, the. Poison? Yeah. It's just, and again, it's just, I know my kids eat really well. And they still have, but when they have sugar. Yeah. They are little demons. Yeah. And it just messes with all the other stuff. And even when it's like. Speaker 1 (20:56) like, what is it? Like, did they like a sugar-free or something? Like, it's just whatever. It still messes them. I Speaker 2 (21:04) mean, Speaker 1 (21:04) I Speaker 2 (21:04) was a sugar addict growing up, and I'm ADHD and stuff, and the fact that, like... We had no thoughts about this because I was getting kicked out of classes every day. And, you know, my parents just thought I was just a fucking mess of a human being. And yet I at camp, I had a record of the Fruit Loops record. I ate 22 when I was like 11 or 10 years old, 22 boxes, the miniature boxes of Fruit Loops at a breakfast. And you're like. The fact now, and it is wild to see it here, and I'm absolutely obsessed with the school that my daughter goes to right now. It's one of the reasons I'm really happy here for the moment. But they give fucking, they're like, oh, we're giving, what are those, corn candy? What are those Speaker 1 (21:47) fucking things called? Candy corn. Candy corn to three-year-olds. I'm like, for what? purpose. Speaker 2 (21:53) Like what's the upside to this? You know? And again, maybe we'll find out in five years. Oh, it's better than broccoli. Cause I know they changed, they changed everything on us, but right now we're pretty sure that sugar is one of the worst things, you know, you can eat. And certainly for a young child and certainly for someone in school. So why, why I don't get it. Speaker 1 (22:10) So, yeah. So, so you've had this amazing career and I feel like you're really hard on yourself all the time, which is, I kind of love that about you. Cause it's a great. It makes me laugh. But can you take me back to like. Speaker 1 (22:26) like you as a child, like let's go to the beginning of Doug. Yeah. We're obviously New York. Yeah. Long Island. Family. Family. Mom, dad. Close family. How was that growing up? Close family. My father actually, I Speaker 2 (22:40) based the character on Entourage, more of an accountant was based on my father. No Speaker 1 (22:43) way. Speaker 2 (22:43) You know, who, as you know, he passed away two Speaker 1 (22:45) months ago, three months. Speaker 2 (22:47) I Speaker 1 (22:47) can't keep track anymore. How's that been? It's just life is surreal. Yeah. You know, I mean, you Speaker 2 (22:53) know, you have to be. again, we all go through it. You have to, I have to feel very fortunate. And now that I have a three-year-old, I pray I can make it to my dad, made it to 93 years old. But it's, it's weird that you wake up some days and you just forget. And then I'm like, my mom's been gone 15 years. And yeah, we were a crazy kind of, you know, argumentative fighting family all the time, but very close and always together, you know? So it's, it's, it's very strange. Yeah. Speaker 1 (23:20) I, I was, Super close with my dad. Like I was very blessed with the relationship I had with my father. It, and again, I don't think it, it's ever like he's, he'll be 12 years just gone December 1st. And I don't think it gets easier. You just find a way to kind of deal with it. But I thoroughly look forward to, I see, I meet him in my dreams. And it took me forever. Like I would, first I'd like see him in a distance and then I like try and run. I could never find him. It was like, and I'd wake up and I'd be like crying. And then, then I finally would see him, but I couldn't talk to him. And then finally one day we had a conversation. Speaker 2 (23:59) And Speaker 1 (23:59) now randomly I'll have these moments where I'll meet him, but we'll always meet at the same place. There's a bench and we sit down and we have a conversation. And it's always in these weird moments. And we'll talk. I don't know how long