Stewart Copeland: Sting Would Suck At Standup & Dad’s CIA Job
Adam Carolla Show
Legendary Police drummer Stewart Copeland joins Adam Carolla for a candid conversation about his life, career, and family. The episode dives
Key takeaways
- Copeland reflects on The Police's origins as a 'fake punk band' that evolved into something unique through Sting's songwriting.
Main topics
- The Police's musical evolution
- Stewart Copeland's childhood and father's CIA career
Notable quotes
"They may be sons of bitches, but they're our sons of bitches." – On his father's foreign policy philosophy.
Conclusion
Copeland's story reveals how personal history—family legacy, cultural displacement,
Transcript preview
Speaker 4 (0:00) Thanks for tuning into The Adam Carolla Show. You can watch the full show on YouTube. Just search Adam Carolla Show and hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. You can also get the podcast wherever you like to listen. And for extra content, ad-free episodes, and more, you can head over to our sub stack and sign up today. Speaker 1 (0:23) Hello and welcome to PlutoFo. If you know the name of the movie you'd like to see, just stream it for free on Pluto TV, where all your blockbuster favorites are landing all summer long. Catch Anchorman, The Legend of Ron Burgundy. Speaker 4 (0:36) Fantastic. Speaker 1 (0:37) The Matrix Trilogy. Welcome to the real world. Mean Girls. Speaker 3 (0:41) Shut up. Speaker 1 (0:42) Titanic. I'm Speaker 3 (0:43) the Speaker 1 (0:43) king of the world. And so much more. For showtimes, press nothing. They're free 24-7. That is Speaker 3 (0:50) so fast. Speaker 1 (0:50) On Pluto TV. Stream now. Pay never. Speaker 2 (1:01) From Dallas, Texas, this is The Adam Carolla Show. Adam's guest today, legendary drummer Stuart Copeland. Plus the news with Andrew Hobson and now Adam Carolla. Get it on. Speaker 4 (1:15) All right, I'm on location. You Speaker 2 (1:16) can probably hear Speaker 4 (1:17) that already just by the sonics of what we're doing here. I'm in a huge convention center. I'm doing this big trump-a-thon thing out here. It's a long story. I'll fill you in later. But Stuart Copeland is joining me. And Stuart has a spoken word tour. And I don't have the bio in front of me because of all the craziness. And we try to get it printed out at the hotel. And you know how it goes. But we'll fill you in all the details. But, of course, you know Stuart from the police and many other endeavors as well. Soundtracks for movies and everything else. Good to see you, Stuart. Speaker 5 (1:56) Hey, great to see you, Adam. Long time. I think we go back to when you had the man show. When we were men. I Speaker 4 (2:03) know. I mean, I look at the, and sorry for any ambient sound you may hear here. We were told no one was coming into this facility before this, but now the place is packed and they're doing a whole bunch of stage announcements and everything. So we'll muddle through this. But, yeah. The Police were a revolutionary band in my world. They were sort of new wave before everyone else got there. I mean, I could remember hearing Roxanne early when I was like in the ninth grade or something and thinking that is a different song than any other song I've ever heard before. Did you guys know you were on to something different and was the plan to do something different? Speaker 5 (2:51) No, the plan was to completely do something the same. Our brief was to be a punk band because that's the only work available in those days. It was the end of the the prog rock era and I was in a big prog rock band called Curved Air. But we could just see that the whole scene was losing altitude and the only thing going on was this new punk scene in London. And so we were a fake punk band when we started until Andy joined. and Sting started writing actual songs and then we kind of morphed into a not-punk band and I guess Roxanne was a step away from our origins. Speaker 4 (3:27) Yeah, but you know one of my favorite police songs, So Lonely, is kind of a punk song. Speaker 5 (3:35) Yeah, well the loud choruses and quiet verses. I don't think we invented that format I think we just picked it up. It had been forgotten for a while in Speaker 4 (3:43) a way I Guess you are sort of like the pretenders And that you're not from England, but it's an English band, you know Chrissy Hines from I don't know Ohio, but she's in English You know, is that kind of like you what I would also Speaker 5 (4:04) Yeah, I would also include in that club, I would include Jimi Hendrix, who busted out in England. That's where he came from. Although he was from Seattle, I think, fully American. But a lot of Americans bust out in England. Speaker 4 (4:18) Yeah, I guess you had to back then. And I don't know, maybe I'm nostalgic, but to me... Those days with the early Elvis Costello and Graham Parker and Joe Jackson's, you know, Look Sharp and I'm the Man. Those early, late 70s, early 80s albums. I don't know. There was something different, a little magical about those. I mean, I would include the Pretenders and the Police in that group as well. Speaker 5 (4:45) Well, you know people when they hear me speak nowadays this I can see that first little look of disappointment in their eyes It's sort of like they meet Ringo Starr and he's got a you know a Brooklyn accent Speaker 4 (4:57) I'm Speaker 5 (4:59) not supposed to be American, but I am goddammit and living in England for 20 years I had to hold on to my American accent. Speaker 4 (5:06) Yeah, but you were born abroad your dad had a crazy kind of Actually, Speaker 5 (5:12) no What you were about to say is probably true. But no, I was actually born in Alexandria, Virginia, and went to Cairo, Egypt when I was two months old. But actually, I was born in the United States of America. And Speaker 4 (5:25) your dad's job was what? Speaker 5 (5:29) Oh, skullduggery in the Middle East. Imposing dictators. Actually, imposing dictators, despots, and dickheads. It was all about keeping the oil flowing from the Middle East to our factories rather than north to the evil empire of the Soviet Union. And so they had to sustain the system of stability, even though you might not have liked these characters that they were propping up. But as he used to say, they may be sons of bitches, but they're our sons of bitches. Well, Speaker 4 (5:58) I guess as you travel through this world, you really realize everything is a kind of a lesser of two evils. or a little bit of Speaker 5 (6:08) a Speaker 4 (6:08) devil you know. I mean, no one... Speaker 5 (6:10) No, no, no, no. I'm a little more optimistic than you, Adam. I would say that we choose Speaker 4 (6:15) between the Speaker 5 (6:16) blessings. Speaker 4 (6:16) Well, then the blessings you know. But were you rebelling against your dad with music and punk and any of that stuff in his life, you think? Speaker 5 (6:29) No, no, he would have loved it. Well, he did love it. I mean, he was a rebel himself. Even though he was a CIA man, he was not Mr. Conservative at all. And he was also a jazz musician before he joined the Army and then intelligence, etc. His only disappointment was not that I was punked out. It was that I wasn't playing jazz. Speaker 5 (6:53) And the reason I don't play jazz is probably because jazz to me represents a nice safe Sunday afternoon with the family. It's the opposite of rebellion to me. Was Speaker 4 (7:03) your dad around to see all your success? Speaker 4 (7:08) Yeah, that's great. Yeah. And did he did he did he I'm always curious about because there's a lot of different levels of parents and their kids success. Some really drink it in some really enjoy it. Some, you know, put the jersey on and go to the game and sit front row and others don't seem to acknowledge it. And it's and I always feel bad for those who don't seem like I remember talking to Norman Lear. I interviewed Norman Lear several years ago, and it's like his mom just never, never acknowledged his fame, never acknowledged his success, and never got on board. And I feel bad for her, you know? Like, she didn't get to bathe herself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's Speaker 5 (7:48) a Speaker 4 (7:48) tragedy. Was your dad going to the concerts and, like, really drinking it in? Speaker 5 (7:56) He was a bit old for the concerts by the time I was playing concerts. But he did come to one or two and I got a chance to drink it up. I took him to see Buddy Rich one time. And this is where I got my father. This is every kid's dream, to impress your dad. He raised me on what my buddy Stanley Clark would call wrong jazz. That's to say white big band jazz, that's what I was raised on. Stan Kenton and so on. And Buddy Rich. And I took my dad to see Buddy Rich at Ronnie Scott's in London. And the real moment where I broke through every kid would dream of is I'm there backstage and all of Buddy's bands are lining up for autographs and pictures with my father's son, me. While him and Buddy are off in a corner talking old band leaders and stuff. But for Buddy's band to be, you know, getting my autograph, that was a big moment for my dad. Yeah, yeah. By the way, since you asked, actually you didn't ask, I'm going to tell you anyway, I gave Buddy Rich my autograph. Huh? I'll just let that sink in for a minute. It's Speaker 4 (9:09) interesting how your dad's always going to be your dad and your brother's always going to be your brother and your mom's always going to be your mom, but sometimes you need an outsider to confirm. who you are outside of the family because you're always who you are inside of the family but outside of the family you can get confirmed and if a guy like Buddy Rich does it that's an amazing experience and story and I'm always grateful. Speaker 4 (9:36) That Speaker 5 (9:37) that's all too true. That's so true. You know being famous is great except for it never works in front of my mother-in-law Speaker 4 (9:43) The Speaker 5 (9:45) guy comes up says home. Mr. Copeland. I love your work. I love your work Just turning away something and as she turns back Whoever it is is gone. You know, this is one of the frustrations. I've Speaker 4 (9:56) had that with my kids many times in a Home Depot Well, the kids are the hardest to impress of all. Yeah, well, the only thing that impresses the kids, and especially the daughters, is if they're friends, dads, or fans. So it's kind of interesting, the wiring between men and women. My daughter didn't care, but if one of her friends' dads cared about me, then she did care, which is a very feminine trait. So you're doing a spoken word tour. And I know, I think you're coming up with the Rialto in Tucson, where I was just at the Rialto in Tucson, a beautiful theater. You're going to enjoy it. Cool. And spoken word is kind of interesting because, you know, I think back on Henry Rollins back in the day and others who have done it, but I haven't heard about the format in a while of spoken word. So tell us sort of about how you structured your show. Speaker 5 (10:57) It turns out I never expected this never thought in a million years that I'd be doing this But it turns out that it's like stand-up comedy with one big difference. I'm sitting down And an armchair and I discovered I never knew this that you could go out there I don't need no bass player. No guitarist. No amps. No crew. No songs. No, nothing Just give me a chair and a light bulb and I'll hold a room for two hours Wow And that introduced me to this art form that I have a lot of appreciation for which stand-up comedy I've always Admired those guys who can walk out on stage with nothing but a microphone naked And I've admired that and I'm I aspire to that level where I don't even need an arm. Well, Speaker 4 (11:42) you know Take this in the spirit in which it's intended. You are a great talker for a drummer. Drumming is not a normal, you know, you're in the back making your noise with your hands, you know, not your mouth normally. And life is sort of self-selecting, you know, I've noticed. Like when I go to the vintage car races. I can always tell a guy's personality by which car he chooses to drive. Certain cars attract certain personalities. What do you know? And so if you're attracted to being a drummer, you're usually sort of in the back and you'll let your hands do your talking. But you are an exceptional orator for somebody who's in the back behind the drum kit. Have you always been that way? Speaker 5 (12:34) Well, yeah. No, I was a shy, diminutive kid, which is probably why as soon as I started banging on drums, I became a very loud kid. Instant chest hair as soon as you start banging on those drums. No, I've always been a little talkative. I mean, back in the band days, my two buddies would shut me up because I talked too much. But entertaining an audience with it. Looking for laughs. It's all about the gags. It's all about the laughs. I've become a whore for gags and laughter. It is a drug. You know, when you're playing a song, you've got to wait three whole minutes before you get your applause. But if you're doing kind of a show like this, the talking show, it's just rolling one gag on top of another. And you can keep the room lit. It's a great feeling. I really enjoy doing it. Also, the other thing is the physicality. Isn't the problem I could go run a marathon that day I don't have to conserve calories because I know I need them on stage to bang drums I don't need to worry about what I eat or any damn thing. Just pull back the curtain I'll walk out there Speaker 4 (13:47) and have some fun with a room. Yeah, I got apologize for the ambient The ambient sound I could hear everything is said by the way, but they're getting See, I was told we're going to have a room to set up in here, and we're out on the floor of this place. So hopefully this will work. I'm going to look behind me and see what's going on. It looks good. I'm going to speak a little later tonight, so I've got to get my shit together. Hey, look, Adam, get me a hat. I'll get you a MAGA hat. So, you know, it's kind of interesting. Speaker 4 (14:29) Most everything turns into stand-up if you're on stage long enough, holding a microphone long enough. And it's just a human condition. So even doing a eulogy, someone will tell a joke or a funny story about the deceased and they'll get a reaction and it kind of turns into it. And what I've noticed is a lot of A lot of spoken word sort of turns into a version of stand-up. It's a sort of sit-down. Hopefully. Yeah, but the good, here's the good news. If you go up as a stand-up, you go, I am a stand-up, then there's a certain expectation level and there's a certain rhythm and a certain cadence. If you go up there and you go, it's an evening with Stuart Copeland, every joke is gratis. It's all free. It's all found. It's all a plus. Because if you go, stand-up comedy with Stuart Copeland, then people will stand there and go, where are all the jokes? Speaker 5 (15:33) They'll come on make me laugh maybe laughing if they want to hear your war stories, but they happen to have a punchline Yes, much better. We'll Speaker 4 (15:41) find new punchlines every show and by the end of the tour You'll have many more punchlines in there than you started with the beginning of the show is my that's my experience Speaker 5 (15:57) That is absolutely true. In fact, my show is... It's supposed to be two 45-minute sets, but I never come offstage in shorter than an hour. And I keep cutting material, and I come offstage the next night, I cut the whole polo story out. Played polo with Prince Charles. Take out that, and I come offstage, and it's still just over an hour. I don't know how it feels. Like you say, you come up with new gags. And then I've got a little break now, going back out in October, November. I'm Speaker 4 (16:29) going Speaker 5 (16:29) to have to look at the tape to remember all those guys that I'm so proud of having gathered up. Well, Speaker 4 (16:36) also, when you get laughs, it adds a lot of time to the show. If you're getting a laugh every 90 seconds or two minutes, it really takes 45 minutes and stretches it out to an hour. Well, what is the story? Well, also, Speaker 5 (16:52) I do like to play with the audience as well. I encourage catcalls, verbal abuse, any damn thing. I like to play with it because I'm telling more or less the same stories. So it's great to have folks shout stuff out and break it up a little bit. And I love, you know, you don't need to be intimidated by a member of the audience shouting stuff because you've got a six zillion watt PA. gives you kind of an advantage. So I actually enjoy back and forth with the audience. I Speaker 4 (17:21) don't know. I don't really know Andy Summers' personality or Sting's personality. I don't feel like I know who they are as sort of dudes. Does everyone get along these days? And how would you describe them as just individuals? Speaker 5 (17:44) Well, Sting would suck at this. He's not like a storyteller until he goes into the quiet of his room and puts a very complex idea into seven words that rhyme. That's what he's real good at quick conversation rep RT not his thing Andy would be a blast He's real good at storytelling is pretty good comedian and he would be a blast. Speaker 4 (18:09) It's everyone on good terms these days. Oh Yeah, Speaker 5 (18:13) I Speaker 4 (18:13) yeah. Speaker 5 (18:15) Yeah. I mean as Speaker 4 (18:15) long Speaker 5 (18:16) as you Speaker 4 (18:16) don't have Speaker 5 (18:16) to play together we get along great is Speaker 4 (18:19) Is it tough to play together because everyone's sort of a perfectionist or you hear in the middle of a song what someone did wrong or whatever it is and it gets under your skin or how's that work? Speaker 5 (18:30) It's actually pretty simple. We realized after having been through, you know, as all your listeners are probably aware, we were a very loving, blissful band environment. Not. But the problem was not what everyone thought it was. It's not what we thought it was. We didn't realize until towards the end of our big reunion tour, we make music for different reasons. We're on different missions. I'm out there to bang shit. It's a physical exercise. I want to be Mitch Mitchell with Jimi Hendrix playing, banging on my drums. That's what I'm here for. Somebody else who wrote a song might conceive, have the notion that we're all there to serve his song. And indeed, the song is a very valuable thing, and we get nowhere without great songs. But for me, the song is there to serve the band. Speaker 5 (19:23) Rather than the other way around. And that is a conflict within the band right there. I'm there to play drums and burn down the house. Somebody else in the band wants to tell a story or express a deep political concept or whatever. I don't care. I'm banging shit here. And so I will gladly serve the music because I'm totally honed in on the music. But whatever the subject of the song is, Not my problem. I'm at the back of the stage banging stuff. So it's not that we're trying to smother each other or jealous of each other or anything like that. Certainly nobody fucks up in the police, that's for sure. We don't let that happen. It's just that we're on different and clashing missions. And when we were young and codependent, that was great. Contrast. And that's how we made all those cool records in spite of being on different missions. That contrast was great when we were young, but now we're grown up. We enjoy our lives. We don't have to put up with that anymore. Speaker 4 (20:27) Yeah, I never I never really thought about everyone being in the same band, but sort of coming at it from different positions. But, you know, there's a version of that with comedy as well. And and I guess in every art, I suppose in every art, there's a version of. coming at it from a different perspective, design, architecture, comedy, drama, like whatever that is. So there will be, is there any chance there's ever another police show for us ever? Speaker 5 (21:05) I don't think so. I mean, we really nailed it on the reunion tour. By the end, we were counting down the hours that we would have to spend on each stage as we were hugging and laughing and loving. You know, we get along so great, nobody wants to go back to that place where we have to, you know, where old Stingo has to put up with World War III over his left shoulder while he's trying to say something important. And I don't have my bass player turning around and glowering at me because I hit a drum. We don't need that. By the way, I'm still enjoying playing those songs. When I finish doing this talking stuff, I'm going back out with orchestras across the land playing Roxanne, Message in a Bottle, Can't Stand Losing You, and so on, but the big orchestral arrangements. So I'm not done with those songs. Speaker 4 (21:51) Good Speaker 5 (21:51) question. Speaker 4 (21:51) Are you doing much scoring these days? I know you've scored quite a few films and productions in your life. Speaker 5 (22:00) Not anymore. No, I retired I retired I escaped from Hollywood, but I do something even worse. I write all really Speaker 4 (22:07) How Speaker 5 (22:08) do you write it? Okay, that's just that that's a conversation stopper right there, but I've written seven operas now I'm writing another one right now. It's the most fun a composer can have it to close on tell Speaker 4 (22:20) us how that would work and then Obviously there's operas and then there's like rock operas, you know, Quadrophenia and Tommy and all that kind of stuff we've heard about. Well, Speaker 5 (22:31) the same thing with different instruments. Speaker 5 (22:36) telling a story and cranking up the emotional impact of a story, like in Tommy, with music, or in Puccini or Verdi or Wagner, it's a way of telling a story with the music. Because the music has, as I learned this, 20 years before the mass, as a hired gun, flinty-eyed, for hire film composer, I learned that music tells a story. Music can... negate what you see on the screen. It can amplify things that you didn't notice. Music is a really powerful storyteller. In fact, on the screen, you see something that's beautiful. Everything, all the information you're getting is beautiful, but the music, I put a shit cord on it, and you know that it's all bad. You believe my music rather than your lying eyes. So that's why I'm in opera, because I don't have to deal with, you know, the rat kingdom. That's Disney to you. And I can do music storytelling without Hollywood. The