Ep 47 - Business Casualty w/ Scott Alexander

A Woodturners Journey

Hosts Chris Jacobson and Marcus Brown welcome Scott Alexander of Alexander Designs to discuss the business and craft of woodturning. The epi

Key takeaways

• Marcus Brown experienced a $250 loss on a birch platter due to cutting the miter on the wrong side of the material.
• Chris Jacobson is utilizing Nature 01 oil wax finish for an alder tabletop as a more affordable alternative to Rubio Monocoat.
• Scott Alexander introduces Hassui, a high-end silicon-based ceramic wood finish from Japan that costs approximately $200 per quart.
• The hosts compare the different audience dynamics between casual maker's markets and professional art shows regarding pricing expectations.
• Scott Alexander discusses the impact of the ash borer on the availability of ash timber in his region of Pennsylvania.

Main topics

• Woodturning project updates
• Wood finishes and coatings
• Art shows vs. Maker's markets

Notable quotes

I do them to, so I can afford to keep buying more tools.

Conclusion

The episode offers a deep dive into the technical and emotional aspect

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:07) All right, welcome, welcome, welcome to episode number 47 of a Woodturner's Journey podcast. Speaker 1 (0:13) Woohoo! Speaker 2 (0:16) Marcus. I am Chris Jacobson. You can find me at Hiram Woodworking or at A Woodturner's Journey. And you can also find our illustrious, shiny co-host, Marcus Brown at Red Chair Woodworks and his matching cohort that you can't see because this is an audio only podcast, but I am outnumbered by baldness with our... our guest scott alexander from alexander designs welcome scott Speaker 3 (0:50) thanks guys good to be here yeah Speaker 2 (0:54) i feel like i should take my hat off and just brag a little about this coif i've got hiding under here but well that's i'll brag Speaker 3 (1:02) about the fact that my hair care takes about three minutes every other day with the right Speaker 2 (1:11) I spend less time than that. I don't know. I barely even wash Speaker 1 (1:15) my hair. I'll tell you that. I don't know. That's Speaker 3 (1:17) awfully pretty. I'm not sure I believe it. I just Speaker 2 (1:20) showered this morning and this is just natural. Oh, natural. I just, I'm blessed. If I'm blessed with one thing, I guess it's a good head of hair. I wish I would have been blessed with other talents, but that's why I'm doing a podcast about woodturning and hiding in my basement right now. Oh, well, I'm not follicly challenged like others, but I'm challenged in many other ways. But yeah, we're going to stop there. Yeah, exactly. We're going to get going. We're going to start with asking Marcus what he's been working on. I'll talk a little bit about what I've been working on, and then we'll get into Scott's recent journey and talk about his history with woodturning. So, Marcus, what have you been working on, buddy? Hey, well, Speaker 1 (2:10) you know, not really a whole lot. I did finish the birch countertop platter that I made for DB just a couple weeks ago. It was an off cut Speaker 2 (2:28) of the countertop, right? Speaker 1 (2:29) Yeah, well, I made a giant mistake. She wanted the birch countertop material from Home Depot put into her. a little home that her and her her boyfriend have recently purchased in so not even Speaker 2 (2:44) fiance yet nope not Speaker 1 (2:47) officially that kid one of these days uh so i had to do a very large miter and my first miter cut with my my newly acquired track saw was amazing and then Speaker 1 (3:02) I, there's a top side and a bottom side to the birch countertop material you get from Home Depot. And my dumb brain wasn't paying attention and I cut the miter on the wrong side. So that was a quick $250. I had to go spend again. Get more material. So I've got all these pieces all over the place. I'm like, well, I've got to do something. So anyways, I turned a nice, it's a 15 inch. platter in it but it was so much work filling up the voids and everything else and that um that i don't think i'll be turning any more turned objects from that material i think i'm gonna just uh it will probably end up in the fire pit but uh yeah it turned out pretty good make some Speaker 2 (3:46) cutting boards or something yeah Speaker 3 (3:48) exactly give them away for christmas Speaker 1 (3:50) yes i hate to i hate to burn it that's for sure it was expensive but don't don't burn it I don't do a whole lot of mortises, recesses for our folks across the pond. So one thing about a recess that compared to a tenon, I don't think people talk a lot about, at least it's been my experience, is that if you put in a recess, you can chuck it and re-chuck it multiple times and it seems to stay centered. Whereas a tenon, when you grab onto it, I think you kind of tweak the tenon a little bit. And then when you turn the shape and you take it out of the chuck and re-chuck it, I think there's just enough that's been changed. It's Speaker 2 (4:39) so Speaker 1 (4:39) hard to line it back Speaker 2 (4:40) up. Yeah. There's going Speaker 1 (4:41) to be a slight wobble to it sometimes. So that was a lot of fun. I had to take the platter off my chuck. I mean, at least eight times to, oh, well, now I have a void I got to fill because I took, you know. that out or whatever Speaker 2 (4:57) another millimeter off of it yeah it took a little Speaker 1 (5:00) millimeter and it's like oh there's a knot okay cool um but it turned out really cool and it was it was good experience doing a mortise and um it's always fun making db stuff she's super appreciative i uh that's kind of been really All I got going on, it's really boring in my wood shop lately. I do have, I was going through and taking inventory last night in my shop, and I probably have about 50 bowls that are ready to go for their finished turning. So there's no excuse. I'll keep you Speaker 2 (5:37) busy this winter. I Speaker 1 (5:39) got plenty to do. I'm not going to be as busy as Scott because he'll do 50 bowls before his first cup of coffee in the morning. but not finished turn but yeah sure sure pal make me feel better 50 bowls 50 bowls in my life would be like a year's worth you know plus probably i don't Speaker 2 (5:58) know Speaker 1 (5:58) but Speaker 2 (5:59) that's not that that's a bowl a week on average and you've got a full-time job so that's that's pretty good it's way more Speaker 1 (6:05) than most do yeah yeah so maybe so so anyways lots to do but um how about you buddy i know you've been working on flat work table consignment yeah Speaker 2 (6:16) well table commission or whatever yeah so my entire shop is being taken up by a 10 foot by four foot tabletop right now but i'm alder which Speaker 3 (6:28) it's Speaker 2 (6:29) pretty wood it's it's it looks nice Speaker 2 (6:33) God, you look at it weird and it dents. But that's what the designer wanted, so that's what we're doing. I capitulated to Alder, even though I wanted European beach. which looks similar enough and as hard as a rock. Much harder. Oh, well. But it's beautiful. I got all the knot holes filled. The rest of the house is like a knotty alder cabinets in the kitchen and stuff like that. So it's more of a rustic looking vibe out in Montana. So finishing that up today, probably getting some actual finish on it. So that'll be nice. Get that out of the way. What are you finishing it with? What's your choose? I'm using the Nature 01 coat, the two-part oil wax finish, because it's cheaper than Rubio monocoat, and it works the same, and it's durable enough, easy to clean. No Osmo top coat for you. I've never used that stuff before, so Marcus isn't a fan from what I've heard. I've never used the Osmo top coat. Really? Speaker 1 (7:44) i like it do you i you know i was i was hating on it with chris prior to us recording and i guess i've just kind of gotten used to oil finishes that don't have dryers so i love the smell of a really good linseed oil you know and and the way that it cures out is just wonderful but of course it doesn't have the durability so you know i use that top coat on on danny's platter and i was telling chris that the smell i just hate it it smells like gasoline or turpentine or something dry it's off guessing yeah i'm like and it takes weeks for it to off get it's it's really weeks yeah it's two weeks in and it still stinks maybe Speaker 3 (8:30) my sniffer doesn't work as well i Speaker 1 (8:32) haven't noticed it being that bad you Speaker 3 (8:34) know my favorite Weird wood finish. I don't know if you guys have heard of, I'm probably going to pronounce it wrong, but it's like Hisui. It's from Japan. They call it liquid glass. I'll have to send you a link when we're off. It's $200 a quart. It's stupid, but I use it on really special pieces. It basically turns chemically the wood to glass. So if you needed a wood sink. to be completely impervious to water it's a good option but like art pieces that are really special i'll just do one coat as a sealer on it and know that whatever gets on it's never going to get through but yeah you pay dearly for it it's crazy stuff oh yeah it looks like it doesn't look Speaker 2 (9:21) like it's spelled h-a-s-s-u-i yep that's it it's a ceramic it's a ceramic wood finish Speaker 3 (9:32) It's amazing. If you ever get a chance to use it, I highly recommend just something small. Speaker 2 (9:39) Silicon-based is what it says. Interesting. I wonder if it works similar to the ceramic coatings that other companies are coming out with. Speaker 3 (9:48) It could be. Speaker 2 (9:50) The Nano 3 or whatever. The Carbon whatever. Carbon Method. Speaker 1 (9:57) Well, Carbon Speaker 2 (9:57) Method is... That's for like cast iron and stuff, I think. I don't know if they have a wood finish, but yeah, you could have a podcast like Shannon Rogers Lumber Industry Update. You could have a podcast just dedicated to finishing, just wood finishes, not even paints, just wood, just clear wood finishes of some sort. There's so many different types and different uses and wants to it, but trying to think of anything else. Oh, I did do two. I did an art show at a maker's market last week. So that kept me busy on Saturday, last Saturday. One to six for the art show or the maker's market and then packed up from that and went straight to the art show and set up and was there until about 1130 at night. What's Speaker 1 (10:50) the difference between a maker's market and an art show? Speaker 2 (10:54) uh the maker's market was a little more casual easy going like it was at five different breweries within walking distance of each other and so you could go walk around grab a beer most people were there just getting a beer and food and hanging out and then saw oh there's people here so it's different different people doing crafts and other arts like there was somebody that was selling uh like homemade Speaker 2 (11:25) botanicals and stuff like that next to me and then somebody that had art prints somebody that made candles out of old beer cans old like vintage cool looking beer cans made 16 and 12 ounce candles out of them or you know so all kinds of different little more crafty smaller things and then the art show was actually like artists with like paint mostly paintings and like other things like that mostly that medium but then a couple other vendors in quotes like myself with a little table with with my Speaker 1 (11:57) wares and whatnot so Speaker 2 (12:00) It was fun. Sold a few pieces, made a couple hundred bucks over my booth fees. So at least it wasn't a total loss and got some free pancakes at the art show. So because it's pancakes and booze, so they make pancakes all night long. So Speaker 1 (12:15) tell me, you and I have been going back and forth recently about pricing. So tell me about it. Did you change your methodology of pricing? Speaker 2 (12:27) Nope, I didn't change my prices at all and nobody balked at the prices. It was more of a oh this is neat, but I Wasn't in the market or looking for like the people at the brewery one person like she walked up to a piece It was like I love this. It was just like a walnut. It's like maybe a 12 inch walnut like shallow bowl And she walked up almost immediately. It was just like I love this. I want this like and bought it 125 bucks and i bagged it up gave her all the stuff and she walked away and that was it and so i think if they see something that speaks to them they just buy it but otherwise they're they're not there actively shopping they're they were there because they were getting a beer and getting lunch and meeting friends and then happened upon this little like oh this is neat and walked through and saw like the eight vendors in this little back room Speaker 2 (13:21) And I think that's the downside to that. Like I sold two pieces there for $100 and $125. I Speaker 1 (13:29) was thinking about that on my hour-long commute to work the other day. And I was thinking, you know, the task at hand is fraught with challenge because you get instant feedback if your prices are right because you're either selling as you hope to be selling. or people tell you this is a great price but how would you know if it's not the right price if it's too expensive most people or people will say Speaker 2 (13:59) it no people will say they'll say oh yeah they'll say oh that's too expensive or i can find the same thing for this like i've never heard that said to me but i've heard it said to other people i mean i know people are Speaker 1 (14:14) rude but i've never had a human being look at me and go that's too much Speaker 2 (14:20) No, my experiences Speaker 1 (14:21) has Speaker 3 (14:22) been at the the local ish lower end shows like people are going. My rule became I don't do shows that people are there to drink and eat because it's never a buying crowd and they don't understand or appreciate the work that goes into it. Like shows like the Philadelphia Museum of Art show or the Smithsonian like that. You never heard any people complain about pricing. Speaker 1 (14:47) but then Speaker 3 (14:48) if they're not there to look at wood art they're there to see the glass guy or exactly Speaker 2 (14:54) you know something else medium of choice or right Speaker 3 (14:57) no Speaker 2 (14:58) i got plenty of really nice compliments and people just like really just loved the work and the pieces but they were just not they weren't in that mindset so and i can understand that and it for that thing if i make a couple hundred dollars and get to hang out and chat about my stuff that I'm excited about that. And it's, it's, it's not stressful. It's very low key. It's like. It's just hanging out more or less. So I don't do those things to make money and to put food on my table. I do them to, so I can afford to keep buying more tools. So speaking of there's a Vic Mark Chuck on my porch right now, that's waiting, waiting for me to pick it up. Another VM one 20 because I Speaker 1 (15:47) don't know why I have, I have two VM nineties. And I don't Speaker 2 (15:54) know. 100s or 90s? 100s. 100s. Speaker 1 (15:57) I don't know why I bothered. I should have just went with 120s. I just. I've got three of them. Speaker 3 (16:05) Yeah, this will be my third one Speaker 2 (16:07) now. Along with my other Chucks that I have. I wonder why Robust doesn't make a Chuck. I'm surprised they haven't. Speaker 3 (16:17) Because it'd be three grand. Speaker 2 (16:20) Probably. True. Marcus is outnumbered by Robust American Beauty owners now. Speaker 1 (16:30) yeah yeah i'm rolling with the cool kids today gee whiz the old Speaker 2 (16:34) school power matic yeah yeah but yeah that's mostly what i've been working on is that and once i get this ding i think what i'm gonna do is if i can get this table done finished and like moved out of the way i've got some bigger off cuts and i want to make a big platter, like maybe an 18-inch if I can, maybe even 20-inch with the material from the table. I've got two and a half, almost three-inch thick stuff, and I want to make a platter to give to the client. Speaker 1 (17:10) Oh, wow. If I've got the time Speaker 2 (17:13) before I deliver it, because I deliver it in two weeks. Speaker 1 (17:17) absolutely love turning alder it's one of my favorites it it cuts so well well Speaker 2 (17:24) yeah because there's nothing to it it's soft it's like turning pine but with actual substance to it Speaker 1 (17:29) it's a weird soft it's like a it's it has characteristics that are on the hard side like it takes a really good cut it's not like biting butternut like let's talk about here you know i think butternut when it's dry turns beautifully um Speaker 3 (17:49) it also depends on the butternut like the log that i got was a mess and it was it grew fast so it was a little stringier than normal Speaker 2 (17:57) yeah yeah Speaker 3 (17:58) the growth rate but it's like the only butter that i've turned Speaker 2 (18:02) the only butter that i've turned is stuff i've gotten that was cord and got through your website years ago and that was gorgeous stuff man yeah Speaker 3 (18:11) gorgeous when i just got off the phone i i sort of i have a lot of connections with the logging industry so my great uncles when i was growing up were loggers their whole life and they're long gone now but people still remember them which has kind of opened the door to buying logs from more commercial people. And then I had a conversation with the guy last night. He's like, well, you just need to get up to this area in New York. It's full of butternut. So I started making phone calls this morning to loggers and tree services saying, hey, if you have butternut, I'm your guy. And it's like, oh, yeah, we've got a dozen logs on the deck right now. Do you want them? So now it's like, okay, I got to get my flatbed and get my butt up there and haul six, eight, ten logs home. Speaker 1 (18:58) Can you talk about the financial