The Power of the Quiet Voice: Lessons on Leadership from Bristol Myers Squibb

A Podcast About Leadership

In this episode, Dr. Jonathan Kirschner interviews Bristol Myers Squibb (BMS) leaders Amanda Poole and Vincent Garufi about leading through

Key takeaways

• Amanda Poole discusses 'Valuably Quiet,' a grassroots BMS initiative designed to empower introverted scientists.
• Vincent Garufi uses a jazz vs. rock music analogy to describe leading in unpredictable environments through improvisation and trust.

Main topics

• Leading through constant change
• Inclusion of introverts in science

Notable quotes

Your organization is only as sick as its secrets.

Conclusion

The episode demonstrates that even in a highly technical, AI-driven fu

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:15) Welcome, everybody. This is Jonathan Kirshner, and we are on a podcast about leadership. And today's a very, very special day. First of all, Speaker 3 (0:28) We're going to make a special dedication of this podcast episode to my dear friend who passed away several days ago, Bogdan. Bogdan was our lead designer at Air Consulting. I've known him for over a decade and unfortunately passed away to leukemia. And the reason why it's particularly... and special to me and meaningful to dedicate this episode to Bogdan and his family is because we have Amanda and Vinny here. Speaker 1 (1:08) And Speaker 3 (1:08) Amanda and Vinny work at a small company, 34,000 employees, called Bristol-Myers Squibb or BMS. BMS has 34,000 employees that wake up every day. to solve for blood cancers and an array of other diseases. that haunt and pain individuals and families. And if you are feeling down or need some inspiration, go to bms.com and there you'll be able to connect to the purposefulness of a whole entire organization that is determined and has centered their raison d'etre, their purpose around transforming patients' lives. through science. And so it's very special to have you, Amanda and Vinny, here with us. I'll introduce you both, and then we're going to get right into it. So Amanda, small role, CPO, Chief People Officer, Executive Vice President at Bristol Myers Squibb. You've been with the company for over 22 years. Speaker 2 (2:25) 22 years. Speaker 3 (2:29) international assignments, domestic HR leadership roles. You did a stint in commercial leadership outside of HR. I did. So really spanning all over the universe of Bristol Myers Squibb. And you lead a global team that is managing, living in the now Speaker 1 (2:52) while Speaker 3 (2:53) authoring the future. We are going to get into culture because I know that's something that's extremely important to you. And wow, we're going to learn a lot. Vinny, I just found out Vinny is a bass and guitar player and singer. So maybe can we go on Spotify and find you? You could. You could. You won't find it on this Speaker 2 (3:18) podcast. Speaker 3 (3:18) You could. If you searched hard enough, you might Speaker 2 (3:22) find Speaker 3 (3:22) it. That's quite cool. Well, and then in all of his free time, he's the vice president of HR innovation strategy and operations at BMS. You know, you are dealing with some of the most complex levels of change, challenges. Speaker 3 (3:44) There's acquisitions. You've been very instrumental in the Celgene Myocardia integration and just a real strategic thought partner to Amanda. Speaker 2 (3:56) Absolutely. Speaker 3 (3:57) And the broader HR leadership team. So it's fantastic and a real gift to have both of you on the show today. I have said this before. I'll say it again. This is not about getting out a leadership textbook. Speaker 3 (4:14) and pontificating on theory and abstract leadership ideas. This is leadership in the trenches. This podcast is about application. And you guys are getting up every day and going in and leading. And there's a lot for all of us to learn today on that. So let's rock and roll. I'm putting my seatbelt on. Amanda. Speaker 3 (4:40) BMS, like I said, its purpose is to transform patients' lives through science. And you've been at the company for 22 years. What's it like to be in your shoes coming to work to drive this mission as the Chief People Officer? Speaker 1 (5:02) It is a privilege. Let me just start there. And as as evidenced, Jonathan, by your testament to Bogdan and the impact that he has had with you and your team here. And and frankly, it is people like Bogdan who unfortunately didn't have the medicines available to help him prevail. And as much as we are connected to the medicines and the patients that our medicines serve today and do bring life transforming, you know, outcomes. there are also so many patients waiting. And that is also equally what drives us and for which we have the privilege of being responsible for thinking about the people of the company that come in every single day. As you said, Jonathan, the 34,000 people that come in every day and are trying to bring new medicines to people like Bogdan who need it and those patients who are waiting. And my goodness, what a privilege to have worked in that environment for 22 years and continue to shape a work environment and a culture that can inspire in that way. Speaker 3 (6:20) That's incredible. I go through to many organizations as an executive coach, as a CEO of Air. And in many organizations, you have like, you know, the mission, the values, some nice artwork on the wall. You go into BMS, at least in Princeton, where I've been, and you see posters of patients. Yes. That have whose lives have been changed or saved more likely. That's Speaker 1 (6:49) right. Speaker 3 (6:49) Through the. the innovations in medicines and treatments. And Speaker 1 (6:53) that is not just true of Princeton. That is true of every site. Every site. Yeah. As we come together for global events like town halls, we are constantly bringing patients to. to our sites, to be connected with the people that are dedicated to bringing those medicines to them. We, in October, will look forward to an entire week dedicated to patients. We have what we call Global Patient Week. It will be in our 11th year this year. It has become a hallmark culture event for the company in celebrating and connecting our workforce in a very purposeful way to patients, the mission, and what we do as a company. Speaker 3 (7:40) Wow. That's incredible. It's so purposeful and so powerful. And so I want to actually, Vinny, you have this really interesting role. So it's interesting. As a guitarist, you're sort of like a member of the band. Right. And I always love the metaphor that leadership is like orchestration. You know, the moment you start to play the instrument, you know, you're sort of arguably not leading. You're doing the orchestrator. The conductor is sort of bringing it all together. And when I think about this, 34000 people and your role of sort of like, you know, you got. innovation strategy and operations. It's almost like the conductor of sorts. Help us understand, how do you do your job? Speaker 3 (8:34) while keeping the patient at the center. Because that, I think if you don't, if Speaker 2 (8:40) you're Speaker 3 (8:40) not disciplined in doing that, it could be Speaker 2 (8:42) easily Speaker 3 (8:43) lost, right? Yeah, Speaker 2 (8:44) yeah, absolutely. No, and I think you hit it, right? I mean, alignment ultimately comes in what are we doing for patients to get them medicines faster and ultimately to bring them hope, right? Because for our patients, time is everything, right? More minutes, more days, more special events with a loved one. So the faster we work and the better we work. the more hope that we bring. And yes, that requires an incredible amount of orchestration. But I love being able to orchestrate effort when the effort comes naturally because of the business that we're in, then trying to create effort. So it's kind of, as Amanda said, being in a privileged position, I have that privileged position. And so then it's how do you, how do we focus people, right? And so there's a lot of what are our priorities? what can we control as a company? What can't we control as a company? What can we control as a function? What's out of our control so that we make sure everybody's, you know, aligned and doing the best that they can. And I think, I think the music analogy is great, right? You know, there's, um, There's certain songs that you know exactly what notes you're playing when you get into it. There's jazz, which is improvisation. You kind of know the key and you know where you're starting. And then you have to follow each other to get there. And we're probably in more of a jazz moment than we are in a contemporary rock moment, if I make the analogy. And so being able to help the organization do that and pivot as we move, I think, is a privilege that I have and the role that I have. So not being a – I'm not a musician Speaker 3 (10:07) by any – measure Speaker 2 (10:09) up. You do not want to give me a guitar. Speaker 3 (10:11) I think I know the D chord. I know a little bit of a Tom Petty song that I practice really hard trying to impress somebody at high school. But what is this distinction between rock and jazz? Just help us understand that from a musician's you know perspective like yeah sure it's like well first off they're like different Speaker 2 (10:32) languages um but you know contemporary like rock music you listen to on the radio there's a blueprint right there's a there's a verse there's a chorus there's a bridge and then you resolve with a chorus it's kind of predictable and you know what notes you're playing jazz is more of a here's a direction yeah Speaker 1 (10:48) we're Speaker 2 (10:49) in this key or we're in this mode And we're going to listen to each other. And we're going to respond to what the other person is doing. And each person is going to have a moment. There's a moment for the drummer to break out. There's a moment for the bass player to break out, for the guitar player. And I think that's just one of the beautiful things about it. Now, let me qualify this. I'm not a jazz musician. I'm not good enough to be a jazz musician. I'm in the rock category. Like, tell me the four chords to play. But I really respect it. And I think it's a great analogy. I think it is a perfect analogy. So there's still. structure in that you Speaker 3 (11:23) have a goalpost or some sort of North Star at a high level. But then within that, it's very sort of spontaneous and I presume a tremendous amount of trust. Absolutely. You have to have in each other to be able to riff off each other. Speaker 2 (11:39) Do you remember that scene in Back to the Future where Michael J. Fox takes the stage to play the Chuck Berry song? Yes. He turns the band. He said, it's a blues riff and B, watch me for the changes. That's... That's kind of how it goes. I love it. That's amazing. I love it. Speaker 1 (11:53) Bring us back to the future, Vinny. Bring us. That's Speaker 3 (11:56) very cool. That's very cool. All right. Well, with leadership, we define leadership at AIR as it's the act of realizing a clear and compelling vision through others. So it's realizing that clear and compelling vision through others. If you're realizing it yourself, as we were chatting about earlier, it's not necessarily leadership. great contribution. It's fundamentally has to be through others. And there has to be that clear and compelling vision. It can't just be a vision. It's got to be clear and compelling. So I would love to just dig in. Everybody does that a little bit differently based on their background, their mentors, their experiences, their philosophy, how they've integrated it all. Obviously, the strategic context that they're in. And so I just want to start with you, Amanda. You've done so much over the last 22 years and you've been in like different H.R. roles, but also outside of H.R. on the commercial side. I have. So based on like the totality of those experiences and that career trajectory, how would you describe, you know. Your leadership and you know, how did those experiences shape your leadership? Speaker 1 (13:12) Yes. Let me maybe describe those experiences Just one click down and it's why I've been with BMS for 22 years and I do think it's a hallmark of how we think about Kind of building skills at the company and the fluidity with which skills can move across different disciplines, frankly, well before that was a little more in vogue like it is now. And so to your point, Jonathan, I have spent the large majority of those years in different HR roles, both here in the United States and I've had the privilege of working in a couple of different markets in Europe. Speaker 1 (13:57) you know, kind of what in HR we call centers of excellence roles, so specialty roles, but then also in kind of broad business partnership roles. Equally, early in my career, I had the privilege of stepping out of HR and over into a commercial, essentially kind of first-line sales manager role, not having spent a day. in the commercial organization or in sales. And I think what was so powerful about that and what I kind of continue to anchor on today were two things. Firstly, this notion of not only stepping sideways to build experiences, but in my case, it was frankly taking a couple of steps backward. in level to get a very different experience as a first-line sales manager, being able to understand much more closely how we bring medicines more directly to patients through prescribers. And secondly, really pressure tested the fluidity of skills and what was necessary. for success in that role was some of the same things that are very near and dear to us as HR professionals. Speaker 2 (15:13) How Speaker 1 (15:14) do you show up as a great manager? How do you assess the capability and really bring a team to the next level? And the importance of the role of manager in realizing for the team and frankly realizing kind of, as you said, that vision through others. And it... It very much helped me in my role today and in my successive roles understand the importance of manager and of that first line manager in shaping outcomes and frankly representing the company and the culture of the company in a way that we just can't do from these big, large leadership roles on stage. Speaker 3 (15:54) I took particular note of how many times you used the word skills, which fascinates me because. Speaker 3 (16:04) You know, you could make an argument that that skills exist, that, you know, that they're not necessarily like stable over time, that the skills you needed, say, 10 years ago or 20 years ago are different than the skills you need now and will be different, arguably, than the skills we need five years from now or, I don't know, three months from now, based on the innovation curve that we're all experiencing. Yes. So I do want to come. come back to that at some point, just around your point of view on what skills leaders need. And also, you know, going down to your frontline manager, you know, need to be successful, not just now, but as we're heading into the future. Yeah, bookmark that. I Speaker 1 (16:52) think we should. And it's one of the places where Vinny is helping us as a company think very deeply about what are going to be those skills that will continue to accelerate us as a company, accelerate managers and leaders, and what are the skills that we envision probably will become less necessary as AI or other technology comes. And so Vinny is helping both me and certainly more. broadly BMS think through that. Speaker 3 (17:23) Nice. I do think, you know, even though