Season 2 #1: Introducing a Cook‘s Chronicles

A Cook‘s Chronicles: A Podcast

In this inaugural episode of A Cook's Chronicles, Nigel Slater and his longtime editor Louise Haynes reflect on their thirty-helped professional

Key takeaways

• Louise Haynes first approached Nigel Slater about writing a cookbook after reading his column in Marie Claire magazine.
• Slater's new book, A Cook's Book, was heavily influenced by the need for reassurance and familiarity during the first COVID-19 lockdown.

Main topics

• Professional history of Nigel Slater and Louise Haynes
• The creation of A Cook's Book

Notable quotes

I want a pan that will be timeless.

Conclusion

The episode provides an intimate look at the intersection of culinary

Transcript preview

Speaker 2 (0:03) Episode 1 Fourth Estate presents Cook's Chronicles, a podcast from me, Nigel Slater. In this series, you'll be joining me on the story of my life in the kitchen, from the first jam tart I made with my mother, standing on a chair trying to reach the agar, through to what I'm cooking now. In our first episode, we'll talk exclusively to my lifelong editor, Louise Haynes, about my writing from the days we first started working together to now. Speaker 1 (0:39) Hello. I'm Louise Haynes and I'm the publisher and editor at Fourth Estate of Nigel Slater's new book, A Cook's Book. And Nigel and I have worked together for a few years now on all his books, whether they're cookbooks or his memoir Toast or other narrative books like Eating for England. And we first met after I wrote to Nigel and asked him if he'd ever thought of writing a cookbook. At the time, Nigel was writing in Marie Claire magazine and I'd found myself waiting each month for his column and then cutting it out to cook from. And I should stress that this was in the days just before the internet. And I had the idea as a publisher that maybe quite a few other people might be doing the same as me. And it later turned out that indeed there were. And the recipes seemed super easy. totally new and fresh, a very informal way of writing, lots of amazing ideas and variations on ideas. And then Nigel replied, and he took a little persuading to do a book, but it was, on my part anyway, instant liking and rapport when we met. And I have to say that it was when he sent me later on the first chapters for... this first book, Real Fast Food, that I discovered to my absolute joy that Nigel also wrote like an angel. It was amazing. And today, Nigel's one of the most loved cooks in the country and the most respected. And I think this year he went to collect his OBE for his services to literature. And he's now also written what I consider to be one of his most beautifully written considered useful and beautiful books a cook's book. So Nigel's here with me today to chat about it and answer a few questions about his cooking. So hello. Hello, Speaker 2 (2:47) what a fabulous introduction, thank you. Speaker 1 (2:51) Can you tell us why you decided to write this book now and when you were thinking about it, which I think was during sort of lockdown, wasn't it, the first lockdown? Speaker 2 (3:01) It was the beginning of the first lockdown and the pandemic. I just felt that there was a mood in the air that we were very unsure of what was ahead of us, what Speaker 1 (3:16) was going to happen. Speaker 2 (3:17) And I know that I was looking for some sort of reassurance. I wanted something familiar, something that I could be sure of. because what was happening in the world seemed so unpredictable. And so a collection of recipes that I knew were my favourite, that worked time and time again, recipes that had really just become part of my life, I thought it would be useful to have a collection of all of those recipes in one place, rather than having to sort to sort. through. So it was just, I think, to capture the mood of the moment, that idea that everything was going to be all right. You've got, you know, something safe and sound. Speaker 1 (4:10) Yeah, I think that comes through in sections like the baking section. Obviously, everyone was baking then. And there's something so reassuring about that. You could cook and have something wonderful to eat at the end of the day. And at least you had that. Speaker 2 (4:27) We do love the idea that no matter what happens, you can bake a loaf. There's something so basic about it, so humble about putting a loaf on the table. As I found when I tried to buy flour, the shelves were completely stripped of bags of baking flour. There is something about baking. But I think probably because you don't really do it for yourself. You bake a cake or a loaf for other people. It's something you share. And in a way, that felt very right for the moment. I think we all needed somebody to say, you know, I love you and I care about you. And that's a way to do it, is to bake a cake or a loaf of bread. Speaker 1 (5:12) Such a lovely idea. In the introduction to the book, you have a delightful section on your kitchen's past and present and what equipment you like to use. And you mentioned some highly sustainable solutions like... You have a rule about plastic and no plastic. And you like to invest, if you can, in pans that will last a lifetime. And can you tell us a bit more about how you choose your equipment and also the ceramics that are in the photos? I Speaker 2 (5:49) mean, certainly I like things to be aesthetically pleasing. So I'm not going to buy a sort of purple plastic washing up brush. But... Speaker 2 (6:02) With cooking equipment, I particularly look for things that are heavy and well-made because I know that they're probably going to be with me for quite some time. When I bought my set of saucepans, and I only really have three or four pans of the traditional sort of deep, deep type that we use every day. When I bought them, I remember thinking, This is the most expensive purchase I've ever made. And at the time, I was quite nervous about spending that much money. That was, I don't know, over 30 years ago. And they're still with me today. They're used every single day. So I like purchases that are quite sound, where I'm not being tempted because something's fashionable. or I've seen it on the television or something. I want... a pan that will be timeless. And very often they are the heavy ones. They're the quite expensive ones. Unless, of course, it's a wok. And the cheaper the wok, the better, in my opinion, because they will get really, really hot very quickly, which is what you need when you're stir-frying. Expensive woks take forever to heat up and they don't really work. So it's got to be something that is... comfortable in the hand so if it's a knife for instance it needs to it needs to have a good balance to it it doesn't matter whether it's as cheap as chips or it's an expensive knife it's just got to work and sometimes yes I've made mistakes but generally I will look for something that is above all well made heavy and that will be with me for a long time I don't like things that um have a sort of built-in obsolescence. So something that, you know, those very thin pans that buckle or bend when you put them on the heat. They're a false economy because although they're very cheap... you're going to have to replace them. So where I can, I will always pay a little bit more for something and buy it from a traditional shop. Speaker 1 (8:21) Yeah, like a baking tin that you put in the oven, you can hear it almost sort of buckling. My Speaker 2 (8:27) baking sheet is cast iron and it is heavy. It's been with me for quite a while. And it is exactly the same as the day I bought it. There's not a bend in it. Whereas previously, I have used cheaper ones. And yes, they just buckle straight away. You can hear them. And also things burn if it's not a good flat bass. So yes, false economy. Speaker 1 (8:55) Well, that sort of brings us into gadgets. Do you think any gadgets are worthwhile? Speaker 2 (9:03) Well... I'm not fond of opening a drawer and finding it full of things you use once a year. I always say that if... If it takes me longer to find something than it does to use it, then I don't need it. Those drawers full of little bits and pieces that you bought from a catalogue that you thought would be a good idea. No, I think you should just tip it up in the recycling, you know. There are very few gadgets that I use. Some things are genuinely useful. Something that will stone cherries or olives. They're actually quite... They are quite useful because it's a difficult job otherwise. And if you're stoning cherries without a cherry stoner, you're going to get purple nails and purple Speaker 1 (9:52) hands. Speaker 2 (9:53) But most of the things in my sort of top drawer, as it were, Speaker 2 (10:00) are very heavily edited. So if something isn't really working, then it's out. I really don't want clutter because I don't like clutter. I find it quite uncomfortable and quite unnerving to have lots of bits and pieces that I don't really use. That said, I've got a couple of fancy cake tins that only come out a couple of times a year because they make my cakes look great. They turn the cake into a celebration. I have got a muslin jelly bag that I use for when I make, you know, damson jelly or when I make blackcurrant jelly, which of course is only once a year. But other than that, it has to prove its worth in the kitchen. And that means a regular use. Speaker 1 (10:46) That is good advice. So you've mentioned low-cluster. In the book, we get to peek at your quite minimalist... kitchen in the book photos. So can I just ask, you're not secretly a messy cook? I Speaker 2 (11:04) have my moments. No, I'm quite a tidy and neat cook. That comes from my very early kitchens, which were tiny. So there was probably only a space of a couple of feet in between the cooker and the wall. And I had to keep tidy. I had to put something away after I'd used it. If something was dirty, it had to go in the sink straight away. I couldn't have a mess because otherwise I'd have no room to cook. And that has sort of stayed with me. So I am quite a tidy cook. You could catch me on a day when I'm doing a lot of food for photography and you might walk in at the end of the day and think, that looks a bit of a mess. But that's because I've got to get a lot of work done by the end of the day. I like being tidy and I don't like clutter and mess. So I Speaker 1 (12:01) also think that I can actually cook better when the kitchen's tidy. Speaker 2 (12:07) I'm not good being surrounded by untidiness and mess. It unnerves me. And I think my cooking is better when I've got a nice clear counter and I can see what's what. Speaker 1 (12:22) So is that one of the biggest time savers that cookbooks don't normally mention? And I'm sort of speaking as someone who will go and spend 10 minutes trying to find a... Some cumin seeds that I thought I had at the back of a cupboard. Do you Speaker 2 (12:41) not keep them in alphabetical order? No. Speaker 1 (12:44) I Speaker 2 (12:44) do. I've learned that there are... So if you take the olive oil out of the cupboard and you pour some into the frying pan, if you immediately put the lid on, the cap back on, and you put it back on the shelf, that's job done. If you just pour the olive oil out and then put the bottle on the counter, it means later you've got to find the cap, you've got to put it back on the bottle, you've then got to put the bottle in the cupboard. So why not do it all at once? And to me, it's part of the economy of movement. It just makes everything quicker and simpler if you clear up as you go along. And that does include putting things back as soon as you've used them. So as soon as you've used the coriander seeds or something, put them straight back in the cupboard. Don't stick them on the counter to sort out later. Once you get used to it, Speaker 1 (13:39) it Speaker 2 (13:39) works. Oh, Speaker 1 (13:39) try that. I made your, it's the sweet potato and lentil pie last Speaker 2 (13:45) night, Speaker 1 (13:45) which, I mean, I think I'm going to be making it every week this winter. It was absolutely superb. I didn't have any curry leaves. That was the only thing. But I think the most sort of time-consuming bit was, you know, there's a few spices that you put in it. And it was for me is sort of going and sorting in my very untidy cupboard at the back. And I obviously need to get better and spend bank holidays sort of sorting them out. There Speaker 2 (14:14) are better things to do on a bank holiday than tidy your cupboards. Speaker 1 (14:17) I don't know. Anyway, one of the first reviews of a cook's book. by the food writer Diana Henry has said, this is a book for life. And I couldn't agree more. There's such a good balance of all the dishes that you need through the year, whatever the season. There's a blend of the quick. And every day, and there's some feasts, there's things like four chocolate cakes, four special occasion cakes, seven pasta dishes. And you've got deeply comforting foods, savoury foods. And then there's a couple of wonderful sections like sometimes you just want pie. How on earth did you get it to be such a perfect balance? And how did you whittle down the recipe? Speaker 2 (15:04) Well... There's a lot of recipes. I don't know how many I've published, to be honest, but it is in the thousands. And whittling down the recipes was part good fun, you know, discovering recipes that I might have forgotten about, things I haven't made for a while. But it was also quite frustrating. If you think of the cheesecake chapter, I've probably done, I don't know, eight or nine cheesecakes over the years. And I knew there wasn't room for them