The Dating Advice Making Us Worse at Love with Relationship Expert Amy Chan

A Bit of Optimism

Relationship expert Amy Chan challenges popular dating advice that emphasizes 'knowing your type,' 'trusting the spark,' and 'never settling.'

Key takeaways

• Popular dating advice like 'trust the spark' and 'never settle' can prevent people from forming deep, lasting relationships.
• Instant chemistry is not a reliable indicator of long-term compatibility; real connection grows through effort and shared challenges.

Main topics

• The flaws in modern dating advice
• Emotional avoidance and perfectionism in relationships

Notable quotes

"The person who's great on a first date isn't necessarily great at a relationship."

"A red flag might just be an imperfection."

Conclusion

True love isn't found through perfection or instant connection—it's built by

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) When I look at my favorite couples, and I have a few of them, like the couples that I like, I want a relationship exactly like theirs. Like, my God. Speaker 2 (0:07) If Speaker 3 (0:07) I ask any of them, what's your secret? They all say the same thing, which is, we do the work. You know? I Speaker 2 (0:15) think what you've explained when you talk about the friends that you have that have great relationships. and the ups and downs and the working through it, you describe a great relationship. And I think a challenge that people have today is this mindset that they need to meet the perfect person first, and then it'll be great. We need to meet people who are good enough, and then we jump in with two feet. And then through going through the stuff, it's the hard stuff when you're there for each other, that it goes from good to great. Speaker 3 (0:48) Some of the dating advice that we follow might actually be making us worse at dating. Know your type. Trust the spark. Watch for red flags. Never settle. Protect your peace. And if someone isn't quite right, there are hundreds of other options waiting on an app. The problem is the person who's great on a first date isn't necessarily great at a relationship. Instant chemistry isn't a good sign. A red flag might just be an imperfection. And keeping our options open? can make us pretty terrible at actually choosing someone. That's why I wanted to talk to Amy Chan. For nearly two decades, she looks at dating through a sort of psychology and neuroscience lens. Why we're attracted to certain people and why relationships fall apart. She's also the founder of Renew Breakup Bootcamp and the author of Unsingle. Her work makes the case that finding love isn't just about finding the right person. It's about getting better at the skills love requires. It turns out dating takes practice, and so does staying in love. If you like what you hear, please remember to subscribe. This is a bit of optimism. Speaker 3 (2:05) This episode is proudly brought to you by SAP. Building trusting relationships with clients, it turns out, takes more than simply being an expert in your client's business. It actually is about empathy and being willing to step outside your own comfort zone. To learn more about SAP, the AI cloud ERP for businesses of all size, head to sap.com slash grow. I'm always fascinated about people's careers and how we stumble into them. And I think you and I are very similar that this was not our chosen path. No. I never imagined I'd Speaker 2 (2:36) be Speaker 3 (2:36) doing what I'm doing. I don't think you imagined that you'd be an old relationship expert. No. You didn't come from this world. No. You didn't study it. And for so many of us who stumble into these things, it's our personal experiences that sort of, you know, the solutions we find are the struggles that we're finding. And so you started not by talking about how to people, you started by not trying to help people have relationships, but how to end them, right? Tell me about what happened to you. Yeah. that unleashed or opened up an entirely new career, your accidental career? Speaker 2 (3:09) Yeah. So I was in a relationship in Vancouver and I thought I was living the dream. And back then living the dream meant you date to get married and then you have children. And then. The plan I had with this guy who ran a business was I would write on the side for fun and we would have kids and everything was set. And then a series of things happened. I lost my job. I moved in with him. And then he cheated on me with a former co-worker of mine. Speaker 2 (3:40) It wasn't just a relationship that fell apart. So much of my identity and future was wrapped up in that relationship. Like I Speaker 3 (3:47) am the girlfriend. I'm the wife. I'm the mother. I Speaker 2 (3:50) was, yeah, the perfect girlfriend training to be the perfect CEO's wife. Speaker 3 (3:55) Like Speaker 2 (3:55) that's what I thought was my dream. And that shattered. And I shattered. It was dark. Like it was so hard. And as an achiever, like there was nothing I could do to get out of that pain. How Speaker 3 (4:07) long were you guys together? Speaker 2 (4:08) Two years. Yeah. So I really struggled. And when I came out of that, which took quite a long time, like two and a half years, Speaker 3 (4:19) I Speaker 2 (4:20) was like, what happens to those people who don't have friends that will lend them a couch or know what books to read or have a therapist? So I was like, I have to create what didn't exist for me. So that's what I did. Speaker 3 (4:34) And what were the things that... you found for you that helped you get out of this malaise for, I mean, two and a half years to be stuck in, in mourning is a long time for any kind of loss. For sure. Relationship or otherwise. Yeah. Speaker 2 (4:48) And look, the intensity of the pain, I think lasted six months. That's when it's like constant rumination, revenge plotting. Um, but you know, after that, like you didn't Speaker 3 (4:59) do anything, did you? Speaker 2 (5:01) I didn't, but I had some really good plans. I Speaker 3 (5:04) want to know one. I want to know one of them. Speaker 1 (5:08) buying bedbugs off the Speaker 2 (5:09) black market and infiltrating her home and his home. Speaker 3 (5:14) Wow. Speaker 2 (5:16) Wild, right? It was bad. Speaker 3 (5:19) But looking back now, you can recognize that if you did that, you're the crazy one, right? Speaker 2 (5:24) Yeah. Thank God I didn't do it. Oh my Speaker 3 (5:27) God. Speaker 3 (5:32) Okay, I'm fully aware that, you know, this episode we're going to be giving advice. This is not the advice part. Don't do it. Don't Speaker 2 (5:38) do it. Speaker 3 (5:40) We will not be giving instructions on how to get on the dark web or any links for bedbugs. Speaker 2 (5:45) Yeah. So, I mean, like, and after... a period of time, like that intense pain went away, but I was resentful. And like, I was trying to date, but I had a closed heart and any person I could rally into my corner about what a victim I was and what a villain he was, that would be the story. And it really wasn't until like two and a half years later, I'm having coffee with a friend, catching him up. And I'm like telling him the story. I'm like, what this guy did to me. And he just stopped me. And he's like, so Amy. does this story serve you? And I'm like, no. And he's like, oh, can you, was there any time when he did love you and he was kind? And I just thought about it. I'm like, yeah, there was this and that. And I just realized in that moment for the last two and a half years, like all I could see was a dark, because that's all I was looking for. And I went home that day and I wrote him a letter of forgiveness of how I grew. It was like all those things I was doing that I was like, this isn't helping. It's like it all came together like glue and it just hit. And I just didn't have any resentment for him after that. Speaker 3 (6:53) What was the impetus for you to, so you found tools that helped you that started with your friend sort of telling you that it doesn't serve you, this story, and then set you on a journey of healing. and moving forwards and looking out the front mirror, out the front window, Speaker 2 (7:12) you Speaker 3 (7:14) know, were you starting to dispense sort of armchair advice to your friends that was working? Did your story help others? Like, how did you go from healing yourself to giving away what you had learned? Speaker 2 (7:24) Yeah, I looked at everything that I tried and what worked and what didn't. And from there, I was like, okay, these things really worked. Speaker 2 (7:36) I was a writer. I've been writing about relationships for 20 years. So I would write about it in blogs, in different columns. And then when I had this idea, I brought the best experts in that specific thing. So if it was cognitive behavioral therapy, I found an expert in that. Somatic therapy. And I just learned from them and I created the curriculum. Yeah. And that's how I started. It started with like seven people. Half of them were my friends. I love Speaker 3 (8:05) that. I mean, that was my story too. Was it? Yeah, I know. I started giving talks in people's living rooms with their friends. Speaker 2 (8:10) Yeah. Speaker 3 (8:11) Yeah, that's the same, same, same. I found you on the internet. I saw you on Instagram. Okay. Speaker 2 (8:17) And Speaker 3 (8:17) I was like, so this is the best thing about having a podcast, right? Which is if I see somebody on Instagram who I think is really, really cool and I was like, hmm, I could, this would help me, you know? I get to invite them on the podcast, have a conversation. Yeah, it's about you, but really it's about me. We were talking before we turned on the cameras about my relationships, and I probably fit many of the patterns. I do think that there is a lot of judgment we put on ourselves, society puts on us, and expectation. For example, there's a lot of pressure that comes from our families, ourselves, society, whatever it is. To get married, have the kids, white picket fence. I mean, the fantasy you had. Speaker 2 (9:01) Right. Speaker 3 (9:01) I'm writing a lot about friendship these days because I think that our society has overemphasized the romantic relationship and underemphasized the friendship, the platonic relationship. And I have romantic friendships. Now, that doesn't mean that they're sexual. They're not. But they're deeply intimate. Speaker 2 (9:19) Yeah. Speaker 3 (9:20) And there's love and there's care. Neither of us want to date each other. Speaker 3 (9:25) But they're very fulfilling. And it's kind of like you looking for the darkness, which is if I ignore all the goodness that I have in my friendships, I will feel lonely that I'm not in a relationship. But if I appreciate the friendships, it takes the pressure off, which probably makes me more dateable anyway. Speaker 2 (9:42) You Speaker 3 (9:42) know, if there's just a lack of, got to get into this. Do you think that dating seems to be more difficult these days? I know young people. later to have sex. Speaker 2 (9:54) Young Speaker 3 (9:55) people are, the tenure of relationship seems to be shorter. Speaker 2 (9:59) What Speaker 3 (10:00) is the reason? You've met a lot of people of all ages. Speaker 2 (10:05) Can Speaker 3 (10:05) you discern that it's a young person challenge or is it a current day challenge? Like why does dating feel more difficult than it used to? And it's too easy to simply say the internet. Right. Speaker 2 (10:16) Yeah. I think dating apps have changed the way that we meet people, but they change the way we think about people. And if you think about the act of just swiping 100 times a day, that's what I used to do. Just swipe, swipe, swipe. And the 100th person I would look at, like, it's just there's so much in coming. It's shopping. Speaker 3 (10:34) And Speaker 2 (10:35) we know through research that the things that you're being so picky on for a dating app. height, looks, hair, whatever it is, if you met that person at a dinner party, you wouldn't have that same judgment. Speaker 3 (10:47) But Speaker 2 (10:48) we're meeting people in these ways and it's changing the way that we see people. So we can even go on a date, have a good date. The second date, we noticed they wore flip-flops. And suddenly... If you remember all the stuff you're being fed on Instagram, what an ick. Or maybe they asked you for coffee and not a dinner. And that advice is being told to you that a coffee, what a waste of your time. So I think that we are walking around with barriers around our heart. Speaker 3 (11:17) We Speaker 2 (11:17) don't trust the media. We don't trust our government. We don't trust thy neighbor. We don't trust anyone. And so how can we connect and see another person as a human being with flaws and have empathy when they mess up? are doing that. Speaker 3 (11:31) And can that be done with internet dating? Speaker 2 (11:35) I think it can be done, but I think that there are certain set of skills we need to learn for dating. Speaker 3 (11:42) And Speaker 2 (11:42) there are a separate set of skills you need to learn to sustain a relationship. And there are people who are great at dating. They're charismatic. They know what to say. They're adventurous, but those people aren't necessarily good at being a partner. Speaker 3 (11:57) I, in my experience, what I found fascinating about online dating, and I've done it, and I've had success with it. Speaker 2 (12:05) Yeah. Speaker 3 (12:05) I've also made a lot of friends. But what I found really interesting is pre, you know, if you meet somebody offline, whether it's at a dinner party or a museum or wherever it is, the initial connection, there's charm and there's chemistry