How to Tell If Fear Is Protecting You or Holding You Back with Extreme Athlete Nelly Attar
A Bit of Optimism - Simon Sinek
Nelly Attar, a psychologist turned extreme athlete, shares how she transformed fear into purpose by founding Saudi Arabia's first dance studio and summiting Everest. She emphasizes service over self-achievement and the p
Key takeaways
- Fear can protect or hold back—distinguish between real danger and discomfort
Transcript preview
There's external risk here, there's real risk, right, of getting in actual trouble. What was so important that it was worth taking real risk? If you don't try, you'll never know. If you don't try, you'll never know. And I think that, if I don't try, that would kill me. And so in my mind, I kept thinking as scared as I was, not just from like potential repercussions, but also the embarrassment. I don't want to look back one day and say, I wish I wish I tried. Most of our dreams stay dreams. We're afraid we'll fail. We're afraid we'll embarrass ourselves. Or we're afraid we're just not ready. And then there's Nellie Atar. I heard her speak at TED 2026 and I knew I had to have her on the show. Not because she's fearless. It's because of what she does with her fear. Nellie is a psychologist turned extreme athlete and mountaineer. She built Saudi Arabia's first dance studio, move. for a women could even do that kind of thing publicly. She's climbed Mount Everest and she's the first Arab to summit K-2, a mountain so dangerous to climb that one in four people who try never come home. But here's the thing that inspires me. Nellie has found a way to turn individual acts of accomplishment into acts of service. She kept her dance studio open for the women who showed up, the women who took the risk just to walk in the door. And she climbed impossible mountains to show women that they can achieve anything they put their mind to. She even looks out for the Sherpas who hike with her to make sure that they are safe and taken care of. There is so much we can all learn from how Nellie lives her life. If you like this episode, please remember to subscribe. This is a bit of optimism. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast. Sanger and thank you for me. When I saw your talk on the main head stage I was completely inspired by who you are, how you show up in the world and it's why I invited you to talk. I know you're in Dubai right now but you live in Saudi Arabia, right? I live between Dubai and Saudi Arabia. And can you remind me mainly because I forgot? No worries. The dance club that you started in Saudi? just remind me how that came about because it is not something that most people would expect to happen in Saudi Arabia at least where where I sit in the US. This is about like 13 years ago I started off my career as a psychologist I was born in reason Saudi left the country to complete my higher education and then I came back thinking I am going to get a couple of years experience in psychology and then go do my PhD. my career as a psychologist and when I came back I realized the sports landscape still hasn't changed. Access to sports was really really difficult especially for women. And honestly I just wanted to move. I wanted to move and I thought you know maybe I can start something start some sort of class to get people active and also stay active. And it started with dance classes. I got certified and I started teaching from the hospital I was working at. And that alone was a risk. That in itself. was a risk. I took the risk and I delivered my first set of classes from the hospital and it was received really positively and so that's where it started and then I carried on eventually moved to different places wherever I could in closed neighborhoods embassies. Why was it a risk? Because organized sports for women was not in the norms. I don't think it was even allowed. Female gym licensing didn't exist. So officially women didn't really participate. in sports at the time. Okay and this was for patients or for hospital staff. This is hospital staff. Okay amazing. And at the time music was not allowed in public spaces either so there was you know both angles I wasn't sure how it was going to be received and I think it really really impacted people and so I carried on and you know like with every next step would open and so I moved on to friends parents of friends, parents of friends, friends of friends, Actually, in 2016 or 2017, I signed with Nike as their first trainer in the kingdom. And even then, we were not sure how to announce it because, you know, we had to dance with the norms. We're not sure if it was allowed, it wasn't allowed. And this is what inspired the space. My stuff that had an empty warehouse in his office building that he wasn't using. So he was like, Nanny, why don't you start teaching from this space? Gather your friends, and instead of moving all around the city, you know, just have that one space, just have that one space. days later I shifted all my classes from that space and initially it was free classes and it was a mixture of dance and fitness sessions and I was just testing the water to see like what is this going to look like what is this going to be with no like really no plan of this becoming a dance studio. Fast forward to about four or five months later it turned into Saudi Arabia's first dance studio. This is amazing. you took. How secretive did you have to be when you advertised this and you got people to come? Was it word of mouth? Could you be public about it? Good question because it was mainly through word of mouth. So a lot of this was to friends and my network. But I did create a public Instagram account for the dance studio called Move and that was not allowed. Even that was not allowed. Showcasing woman training and showcasing women dancing was not allowed. And there were a lot of instances during that period where women were women were training and showcasing training that would get into trouble. Really I wasn't sure how this is going to be received if I was going to get into trouble. So I actually avoided telling people that this is my place. I didn't associate my name, my brand name with the dance studio. For the longest time I don't want people knowing that I was running this space and it was in an office building. So that was also like, you know, not allowed. It was in an office building full of men. We would wait for the men to leave before we could leave before we could sneak It was just really like taking small risks here and there seeing what people were okay with and it was we were still respecting the norms like we didn't do anything that was Completely out of the ordinary it was getting people to move and getting people to see that dance So you weren't being flagrant about it You were still being respectful like you said the women weren't moving around the men you waited for the men to leave work that day and then the women would come into the warehouse afterwards so you were still? Pardon but dancing around the norms that's how we got away with it. And then imagine that. It couldn't have been a better time. That was the period that Saudi started to change. That was when the national transformation started to happen. So female gym licensing was launched. Women could now drive. That was the same year. They launched the Saudi Ministry of Sports. So there was a whole transformation and a massive attention being paid to sports and them trying to get women integrated into the society and work. And so it was. right around the time that we, you know, became a thing. And so we went from being an underground community to then partnering with the government to launch national dance programs all across the country. Is it still going? No, I ended up closing the studio. So what was so important that it was worth, I mean, you were risking getting in trouble doing these things. What made it worth these risks? The impact? I mean, but you could just do word of word of mouth. You could just tell people, hey. You know, when you're all alone at home, you know, move. There are other ways to inspire and encourage people to move, but taking the risk to bring people together in common space to dance together, listen to music. Even just starting in the hospital, like what was so important to you as a psychologist that it was worth taking this risk to lead these dance classes in the hospital and then eventually in the warehouse? Because if you don't try, you'll never know. If you don't try, you don't try, you'll never know. If I don't try that would kill me and so in my mind I kept thinking as scared as I was not just from like potential repercussions but also the embarrassment like are people gonna like my concerts I'm I gonna even know how to teach dance I'm not a professional dancer and Simon I made so many mistakes along the way but it was if I don't try how will I know and I don't want to look back one day and say I wish I wish I tried I wish I tried and it's crazy because when you do try things open up and that rewards me like that was the reward to try even more and try even more. Let's go out of Saudi Arabia right? Someone here might have a dream of opening a dance studio right and the fear of failure the fear of embarrassment may hold them back. There's a lot of people with ambitions to try things that come up with reasons why they shouldn't do it right and you're saying but I had to try. I had to find out. in the Saudi Arabia component where there's actually real risk not just the fear of embarrassment or the fear of failure which are internalizing there's external risk here there's real risk right of getting an actual trouble and so I appreciate the traditional you know overcoming the entrepreneurial jitters like I just had to find out it was worse not to find out I get that but my question is is what was so important taking real risk because most entrepreneurs don't have real risk associated with starting their business. I mean they may lose some money but if they're responsible they're not going to bankrupt themselves you know? Great question. So that would change along the way but I think initially I was always afraid of leading a life that was average or boring and I spent most of my life growing up in Saudi where we didn't have access to sports. We didn't really have access to movement and so coming back and working in Saudi I mean of course I was really grateful there were many great things that Saudi offers but I did feel like life was very monotonous and I was still you know in my early 20s and I love dance and I love being active so this idea came about and I thought okay maybe I can combine dance with teaching people after working hours and that gives me something to do so that was the initial I think driving force and then when I taught my first set of classes which by the way were horrible forgot the routines but even with that I saw what people left with they were so excited it was different they've never done something like this and so then that became another driving force the impact that that started to create for a woman so the naivete of the first class yeah then seeing the impact that it had on people's lives became more important than the risk associated Is that right? Yes. So it's, I mean this is the core of what it means to do anything with purpose, right? Whatever kind of thing we do in our lives and the impact it has on other people's lives and the reward we get from seeing the impact we have in people's lives becomes more important becomes more of the driving force than any risks associated with not doing it or the risk associating of doing it I should say. That makes sense now. It's not. It's not. and sort of calculated the risk. It's that you did something very small, you saw the impact and you said I want more of this. Is that what I'm hearing? Exactly and I think this is what got me as well to climb mountain. Not really thinking of all the risks and the what ifs and and and there was a driving forest and I just started to like dabble with that idea and I must say it's also the people that I was surrounded by. If my family didn't push me as well, My family believed in this and they pushed me into doing it and taking the risk. If they didn't, I don't know if I would have started, but I did have that support system and so it was kind of like an emotional and mental buffer. I had people to talk to about this, especially when it was embarrassing, especially when it didn't go as planned. And then my community started to become that buffer for me. You know, and it's really that support system that helped me take that extra step, always. I think this is such a great point and so under-appreciated, which is there's no such thing as the self-made dot-dot, you know, the self-made millionaire, the self-made business owner. This idea of being self-made is complete nonsense. And though you get the credit because you're the front person and you were the actual person who stuck your neck out, at the end of the day, you said it, which is if you didn't have the support, the love, of at least one person, in your case, you, you