Encouraging England and City scandal continues

606

The episode features a heated football debate between Chris Sutton and Robbie Savage, focusing on England's recent Nations League performanc

Key takeaways

• Manchester City faces approximately 115 charges regarding breaches of Premier League financial rules from 2009 to 2018.
• England's performance against Spain was viewed as a step in the right direction but highlighted gaps in clinical finishing compared to elite sides.

Main topics

• England vs Spain Nations League
• Manchester City financial charges

Notable quotes

England have been flat-track bullies.

Conclusion

The episode highlights the deep-seated tension in modern football betw

Transcript preview

Speaker 4 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 4 (0:38) Are you ready to have your say in the UK's biggest football debate? Your teams, your views. Get ready. This is 606 with Chris Sutton and Robbie Savage on Five Live. Speaker 3 (0:58) Welcome to 606, this is your football phone-in show, but you're called now 0825 909693 and we start with England. Speaker 2 (1:06) Left-hand side, O'Reilly with a cross, Kane with a header, Speaker 5 (1:10) it's gone off Kukerea, England have come from behind and now lead by two Speaker 1 (1:15) goals to one. It's Harry Kane's 31st penalty for England. And Kane smacks it against the Speaker 2 (1:22) crossbar. And it comes out. I think he slipped. Baena, who got the equaliser, now looks towards Oya Sabal. They've found a way through. And Oya Sabal has put Spain back in Speaker 3 (1:32) front. And the world champions lead England by three goals to two. Good evening, Christopher. Were you impressed Speaker 2 (1:40) with Speaker 3 (1:40) what you saw at Wembley? Speaker 2 (1:43) Yeah, I've still got mixed feelings, Rob, about it in some ways. I thought, you know, why couldn't England have played like that against Argentina at the World Cup? I thought they were braver and bolder, still lost the game. But Thomas Tuchel, I think, learning his lesson. Speaker 3 (2:00) Callers now 08085 909693. Wales are playing Denmark in the Nations League. Deep into the second half, Molly Stephens. Speaker 1 (2:10) Where Denmark have the lead in Copenhagen, an own goal from the Wales captain Ben Davies, followed by a deflected strike from Gustaf Isaksson, sees the Danes lead Wales 2-0. Wales have had their chances, among them Soba Thomas inches away. Connor Roberts forced a strong save, but ultimately this looks to be an uphill struggle for Wales, not just in this game, but as they look to better their position in their group. 2-0 Denmark lead. Speaker 2 (2:38) Yeah, it might be a bit of an uphill struggle for Wales, Rob, but I know it's a proud, proud day for you and the family. Speaker 3 (2:44) Yeah, listen, Charlie, you know, it's third cap, play for 60 minutes, you know, I was watching the game, the national anthem came on. I was in my front room, tears in my eyes, Christopher, streaming down my face, actually. Listen, I'm so proud of them. You know, just, yeah, they've had some chances in this game, though, Chris. You know, they weathered the storm, then they had a couple of chances, but it's a tough, tough group, isn't it? Very tough group. But they're doing OK, Christopher. Christopher, what do you want to talk about next? I'll tell you what, Christopher. What about this one? Is the Premier League about to plunge into chaos? And Speaker 4 (3:22) here are the headlines. Manchester City have been found guilty on almost 115 charges of breaching the Premier League's financial rules. The charges relate to the period between 2009 and 2018. This is BBC Radio 5 Live. Call free 08085 909693. Text 85058. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. Visit bbc.co.uk slash five lifeterms for our Terms of Use and Privacy Notice. Speaker 3 (3:53) Been a bit of a red X, Christopher. So much uncertainty. Surely City will appeal and this will drag on and on. Speaker 2 (4:02) Yeah, come on, stick to the script, Rob, this evening. I know you're sort of a little bit emotional with the day. I am, don't Speaker 3 (4:10) get Speaker 2 (4:10) me wrong. I am. It's a great day for you. But just on Manchester City, everybody I speak to, there's so much anger. over this, but City are claiming that they are innocent, but I mean, blind me. I mean, fans of other clubs, just fans of clubs who have missed out on titles, you can argue, you know, missed out on winning cups. I mean, the people I've spoken to want City stripped of the titles. You know, they absolutely do. They want heavy sanctions. A lot of people want them relegated. But yeah, let's put it out there. You know, what are the opinions out there? That's what most non-City fans are saying though, Rob. Speaker 3 (4:54) Call us, Man City fans and football fans in general. 08085 909693. Also, it's an international break. How have you got your football fixed? Non-league, WSL, there were some great games on both. Call us, 08085 909693. Right then, Christopher, let's go straight to the lines. We've got Martin coming up after Harry. Hello, Harry. Hi, you OK? Yes, thanks, Harry. Can you talk about England? Speaker 7 (5:28) Well, I mean, last night in the Nations League, sort of, how much do you really care about it? But I just thought their performance embodied England over the last eight years. They were great, but just not good enough, unfortunately. Speaker 2 (5:41) Yeah, I mean, I didn't know what to make of last night, Harry, because it's easy to think on the face of things the result didn't go the way which England wanted. watching the game, England had some great spells, didn't they? They had some great moments. And they did. It just seemed to me to be totally different to what we saw at the World Cup. I know Thomas Tuchel is sort of clinging to England beating Mexico. That was sort of backs to the wall and that being an incredible result. But England, you know, before that game should have beaten Mexico. But the disappointment was against Argentina. And it's very difficult, Harry, to say that England have sort of... cracked it now and gone up a level. I mean, I saw Anthony Gordon comment after the game. I don't know whether you saw it, that there isn't a gap between Spain and England. I mean, that's just ridiculous, isn't it? Speaker 7 (6:38) Do you know what? I do actually agree with him. I think the quality we have is, I've watched every Real Madrid game this season and Bellingham is just, he's Speaker 2 (6:46) a Speaker 7 (6:46) different level and you're adding Kane to that as well and then sort of the other five or six players you can... put in that category and this is why sort of the last eight years have been brilliant England have given me some of the best nights in football I've ever had but unfortunately it's not been enough because we are capable of so much more and it's going to start to become a sort of feeling around England that when they get in these winning positions and it was a Nations League game but when they get in these winning positions against teams who have been superior they do fall off and it's going to become a bit expectant that England are going to lose or give a lead away because, unfortunately for them, every time they've got so far and in a good position, Croatia, Argentina, France, they should have won and they've not. And I don't want that to become a part of the character and the feeling around the squad, but it does seem that that is where England is at the minute. Speaker 2 (7:38) Just to be clear, were you saying that Anthony Gordon was right by saying there isn't a gap between England and Spain? Do you think England are on par with Spain? Speaker 7 (7:45) Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I think... Kane, Bellingham, you can say they're two of the best players in the world. You look at Jamal and Rodri for Spain, they're two of the best players in the world. Other than the squad, I think you could do a pretty nice... Spain won a World Cup. Speaker 2 (7:57) Spain won a European Championship. Speaker 7 (8:00) England have been Speaker 2 (8:01) flat-track bullies. They're beating teams who, with respect, would expect England to beat. But I think I've not got the stats in front of me, but when England come up against pretty decent nations... we fall short. Speaker 7 (8:18) How can we be on par with Spain? That's what I'm saying. I agree with you on that. I think that's something to do with the character and the feeling around the squad because quality-wise, if you put a combined 11 down on paper with Spain, I think it would be quite even. I know it would for me, but we should be winning them games. Is it because it's England and we're in this position and it's starting to build because we're always failing at the final hurdle? We should have won the Argentina game in the World Cup. They were appalling in that final against Spain. It's the worst World Cup final I've ever watched because one team wasn't up to the quality of Spain. And whether we would have won it or not, we would have given them a much better game than Spain. So why didn't we get there? And it's because of the decisions that were made in that semi-final. And for me, I'm still hurting on that because out of every single major tournament we've gone far in in the last eight years, that was our best chance to get to one. Speaker 2 (9:09) But did last night, can I say, Rob, I don't know whether you were on this, Rob, and whether you watched the game last night, but I think, was it Thomas Tuchel talking about us not in England's DNA to play in control games? I just wondered whether Harry felt last night that was heading in the right direction to be the team, which we all want to see. Speaker 7 (9:37) I'm not having that. Make it our DNA. You're the manager. You're the superior. They've brought a manager in from another nationality to come in and get England over that line that Southgate couldn't. You make that into our DNA. You do that because we're missing one final piece and if he's not capable of doing it, then he's not the right man because otherwise we should have just kept Southgate. Speaker 3 (9:58) Okay, Harry, thank you so much for the call. Let's go back over to Copenhagen. Molly. Speaker 1 (10:05) Denmark still with that lead, Robbie. 2-0 against Wales. Rasmus Hoyland now departing the pitch, but he thought he had yet another for Denmark. Ruled out for offside. It feels like now or never if Wales are to find a way back into the game. They're on the ball at the moment, trying to pass through the phases from the back. But Jordan James and Lewis Koumas have added a little bit of zip to the Wales attack, but not really been able to carve out. a real chance. A disappointing one, I think, this for Wales, Robbie. You'd probably agree. A point would have been a great start, really, into this Nations League campaign to be able to cement some place in the group. But still, nevertheless, of course, a proud day in the Savage household for Charlie, his first competitive start. Speaker 3 (10:52) Yeah, thank you so much, Molly082859096. Do Speaker 2 (10:56) you Speaker 3 (10:56) think he'll win more caps than you? Speaker 3 (10:59) Hopefully. Really do. Really hope he does, Chris. I tell you what, he's got more caps than you now. Oh, Wales have just scored. Is Molly? Molly? Are you there? Mol? Is Molly there? Speaker 2 (11:18) I Speaker 3 (11:18) think Wales have just scored, haven't they? Speaker 2 (11:20) Well, Speaker 3 (11:21) has it gone over Speaker 2 (11:21) the line? Speaker 3 (11:21) It's been ruled out. It's been ruled out. It's been ruled out. Yeah, it's been ruled out. I'm watching it on the TV, Chris. It looks like it was a header, went over the goalie. It's been ruled out. I don't know what for, unless I'm seeing a different game. Well, I don't know, Chris. I'm watching it. I'm trying to do a radio show, but you're not helping me much Speaker 2 (11:40) at Speaker 3 (11:40) all. Well, just, you know, Speaker 2 (11:41) give us a little bit more who had it there. Well, I was Speaker 3 (11:43) going back to Molly, but we can't get hold of Molly. Obviously, she's in the stadium, but the communications must have been great. Oh, and I said, I might just have a shot over the bat. 0808 599 699. As far as I know, there Speaker 2 (11:54) was no goal. So it wasn't ruled out. I must be watching something else. What colour are Wales playing in tonight? Yellow. Yellow? Yellow. Are you watching the game? Are Speaker 3 (12:09) you Speaker 2 (12:10) watching the same Speaker 3 (12:10) game? Yeah, I've got it on the screen there. I'm sure I might be watching something else, Chris. Right, let's go to Martin. How are you, Martin? Speaker 8 (12:20) Yeah, I'm ringing up about England game, Chris and Robbie. I really enjoyed the game last night. I agree with a lot of what Chris says. Why can't we have played like that in the semi-finals? I mean, the last two games we played against France in the play-off and last night have been fantastic. Watch us. I mean, some brilliant football. But the negative is that last night and the last couple of years really is like Chris has been saying, it depends. We've been shocking for two or three years against a big side. We just never keep a clean sheet against them. We'll always score goals and things like that. I agree with what Chris said earlier about Anthony Gordon's comments. I think there's a massive, well, not a massive goal-beating class, but there's still a goal-beating class, probably between us. Spain and France I think Spain and France are still a lot better than us Speaker 3 (13:21) You beat France 6 was it 6-4 in the third place playoff 6 scores you've got against France so there's not a massive gap between France and England Speaker 2 (13:30) Did that game really matter? Did to Speaker 3 (13:33) Saka who scored a hat-trick? Did to England internationals Chris? Speaker 2 (13:37) You still beat France 6-4 I'm sticking up for England here you know and you I'm just being honest I'm just being honest. There's not a massive Speaker 3 (13:46) gulf between France and England. Not having that. Spain and England. Or France and England, because Martin just said, didn't you, Martin, you said France and Spain is a gulf between them and England? Sorry if Chris wasn't listening. Yeah, I did. Speaker 2 (14:02) Yeah, but I think most knowledgeable football fans would say that Spain and France are... There's Speaker 3 (14:09) not a Speaker 2 (14:09) massive gulf, though. There's not Speaker 1 (14:10) a Speaker 2 (14:10) massive gulf. There's a big enough gulf. And Anthony Gordon coming out after last night's game and saying that, why? You know, he had a good game himself. Why do you come out and chuck things? Like that out there. I just don't get it. I just think that is so wild. If I'm an England player, I only got one cap, Rob, but if I'm an England player after last night and the disappointment of the World Cup and the previous Euros... England are the third best team in the world. England are the third best team in the world in the Speaker 3 (14:42) summer. Speaker 2 (14:43) There's not a massive gulf. Don't pretend you're on the same page as Spain. I'm not saying that. That's why Anthony Gordon said it. I just think you're so far out. Spain are a team. England, you know, are sort of more individual. And that showed at the World Cup. And people could blame Thomas Tuchel. I think he has to take his, you know, fair share of the blame for being negative. But last night was better. But why did you come out after and pretend you're on the same page? You know, why say that? That's just dumb. That's not positivity. Speaker 3 (15:22) I Speaker 8 (15:22) was just going to say, what a good player Bellingham is. Absolutely superb, Jude Bellingham. I know the last 12 months that he got a job done, the way he's come back before the World Cup, what a player. If we had 12 Jude Bellingham, we'd be a fantastic team. 12? I mean 11. Speaker 2 (15:46) You Speaker 8 (15:46) need Speaker 2 (15:46) 11 months. Martins, you've got problems with the back line. You've got problems with the defence. Did you think Trafford was... I mean, where are you with Trafford? Was it a good pick? Would you have him ahead of Pickford? And who would you have? Who would your back line be? Because the two sort of big mistakes made last night, and I don't really want to bring Manchester City into it, but... with the two Manchester City defenders, Gay He and O'Reilly, made the two big errors. Do you think there's something in that? Do you think Manchester City players are feeling a bit spooked because of what's gone on? Yeah, Roy Speaker 8 (16:24) Keenan was saying that after the match last night, that it was mainly the Manchester City players that were really at fault last night. I'm not sure about Trafford yet. I mean, it looks a bit... Yeah, I mean, probably because he's now had a lot of match time in London. And of course, he's now got a lot Speaker 1 (16:44) of Speaker 8 (16:44) match time in the Premiership, to be honest. And he's speaking in Chinese. It's like Tiffin's been brilliant for us all every tournament. But there's always a mistake there. You know what I mean? Do you think? Yeah, there is a mistake. Yeah, I mean, there is a mistake in Tiffin. You know what I mean? Speaker 8 (17:06) Mainly so. He's done well for his other years on the tour. He's not, you know what I mean? Can I just say quickly, I remember I saw Robbie in 2009. Doncaster versus Derby. It was his first game in the championship. And Robbie was on the sub bench. He was on his exercise bike and came on in the second half as an impact sub and just didn't have any impact. And we won 1-0. But you still have really... But we're still brilliant, though, Robbie. Speaker 2 (17:37) So just to be clear... Sorry, I Speaker 3 (17:41) couldn't hear that. Speaker 2 (17:42) Martin said that you were on the bench, you were on the bench, Doncaster against Derby, and you came on as an impact substitute, but you didn't make any impact. I'd Speaker 3 (17:55) agree Speaker 2 (17:55) with that. I wasn't an impact sub because Speaker 3 (17:57) I started most of the 631 games. and the 346th game in the Premier League, Martin, so thank you for that. Is he upset you there? I'm just telling Martin, thanks for watching. Did you not see the goal when we went there late in that season and scored the free kick, Martin? Not see that one? Speaker 8 (18:16) No, you were brilliant, mate. I'm glad you... I'm glad you're someplace now. I've been watching you. Thank you, Martin. Really, thank you so Speaker 3 (18:24) much, Martin. Really appreciate it. Martin, Martin, Martin, don't hang it to me. Martin, you were spot on. I wasn't an impact player. You're 100 % right. You know, that's why I started games. Speaker 8 (18:36) You wasn't even on the bench, Robbie. You was on the exercise bike. You was warming up for first half on an exercise bike.