Crisis for Carrick at the Cottage?

606

In this episode of 606, Robbie Savage and Chris Sutton host a heated football debate centered on Manchester United's recent struggles under

Key takeaways

• Manchester United fan David expresses significant doubt about Michael Carrick's longevity, stating he can 'see the iceberg coming.'
• Fulham manager Alvaro discusses his disappointment at failing to secure a win against Manchester United despite having many chances.

Main topics

• Manchester United managerial crisis
• Manchester United ownership and structure

Notable quotes

I can see the iceberg coming.

Conclusion

The episode serves as a deep dive into the systemic frustrations of Ma

Transcript preview

Speaker 3 (0:00) This BBC podcast is supported by ads outside the UK. Welcome to the Haunted Library. Have you come in search of a tale? This podcast invites you to browse the shelves and find stories that will linger long after you've left this place. From gothic masterpieces to pulpy penny dreadfuls, join me, Colin Morgan, with new episodes twice a week. Find The Haunted Library wherever you get your podcasts. Speaker 3 (0:38) Are you ready to have your say in the UK's biggest football debate? Your teams, your views. Get ready. This is 606 with Chris Sutton and Robbie Savage on Five Live. Speaker 5 (0:57) Welcome to 6.06, this is your football phone-in show, but your call now 08085 909693. We're here until 8pm tonight taking your calls as, after a difficult week, Manchester United went to Fulham. Speaker 6 (1:13) Oh, it was spilled by... Speaker 6 (1:32) fortuitous circumstances do have their late, late level up. Speaker 5 (1:38) So, Christopher, who will be happier, Abelua or Carrick? Speaker 2 (1:43) That's Speaker 5 (1:44) a Speaker 2 (1:44) really good question. I think if you're a Manchester United fan, you think, what an average start to the season after the great finish to last season. I quite like the look of Fulham, Rob. I don't think they've got the points they deserve. Fulham fans, Manchester United fans. Let's hear from you. So Speaker 5 (2:00) can you answer that good question? Speaker 2 (2:01) Who, a better point? Who will be happier? Speaker 5 (2:04) Who Speaker 2 (2:05) will be happier? I think Michael Carrick out of jail. And Speaker 5 (2:08) who was a better player, Abel or Carrick? Speaker 2 (2:11) Carrick. Speaker 5 (2:12) Man United and Fulham fans, call us now 0825 909 693. Oh, Christopher. Rangers beat Celtic in the League Cup last weekend. Today. Christopher, they met in the League. Speaker 6 (2:36) This is BBC Radio 5 Live. Speaker 3 (2:40) Call free 08085 909693. Text 85058. Text will be charged at your standard message rate. Visit bbc.co.uk slash 5 Live Terms for our Terms of Use and Privacy Notice. Speaker 5 (2:55) So, Christopher, another old firm, another defeat for your Celtic side. Still two points clear at the top, though, Christopher. It's going to be one heck of Speaker 2 (3:05) a title race. It is. I mean, it wasn't just losing today for Celtic. It was how they lost. Rangers better in every department. It's been a bad week for Celtic. And Martin O'Neill, I want to hear from Celtic fans on this. Martin O'Neill. After the game, talked about reflecting on whether he can help the team moving forward. So let's hear from Celtic and Rangers fans. I mean, Derek McInnes, massive week for him. Can you win the league, Rangers, or will you choke again? Speaker 5 (3:35) 8285 909693 is the number to call. Who else do you need from tonight? Christopher, what about Bolton fans? Christopher Bolton fans? Speaker 2 (3:44) Yeah, long drive back, but a good win away at Norwich City. I want to hear from Norwich City fans as well, because you're free scoring this season, but you're conceding a lot of goals, a lot of talk about automatic promotion. Can you get in the playoff position? Top eight now in the championship. Manchester City fans. We had the caller on last night, Arsenal fan, Rob, who said there won't be any challenges for Arsenal. But five goals today against Sunderland. Was a pointing Maresca a masterstroke? It looks that way. Can Arsenal challenge Manchester City? That's what I would say. Liverpool fans, a good win for you at Bournemouth. Iriola going back to Bournemouth. Three big points. And Alexander Isak, Rob. A goal for him. There were Liverpool fans last season who were saying, he's a waste of money and a waste of space. What do you say now about that, Liverpool fans? And also Wolves fans, a big 1-0 win for you against West Brom in the West Midlands Derby. Let's hear from Wolves. You're progressing nicely, West Brom. You've had a good start to the season. But Speaker 5 (4:50) there we go, Rob. Whoever you support, we're here until 8pm tonight, so make sure you get your calls in now. The number to dial is 08085 909693. Right then, Christopher, let's go straight to the lines. David of Manchester United fan, how are you, David? Speaker 4 (5:09) Yeah, not overly happy, boys. Hello, good evening. Thanks for having Speaker 8 (5:13) me on. Speaker 4 (5:15) You two are doing better than I am. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I've had the stuffing knocked out of me, boys, over the last three games, I can't lie. You got a good point there with Speaker 2 (5:26) that deflected effort later on. Oh, Speaker 4 (5:28) Chris, come on, man. It's not a good point, is it? The way we performed was awful, I thought, today. I didn't think we were out of the races at all. Tuning up against Brighton in the week. Lost 3-2. I know they're a good team. They proved that yesterday. Lost to Man City the week before. I phoned you boys a couple of weeks ago. I went up to the Ipswich game. Scored five. Happy days. Bruno, Hat-Treat. I went with my old man. All happy days. Well done beating a newly Speaker 2 (5:52) promoted team. Speaker 4 (5:54) Yeah, well, there you go. Thank you, Chris. Yeah, absolutely that. Yeah, yeah. Well done Celtic today as well. Yeah, wow. Yeah, well, you deserve that one. But honestly, I look back to my team today. Yeah, I know, Chris, fair enough. But we were poor today. Do you know what it is? I feel sorry for Carrick. I can see the iceberg coming. Michael, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer, Carrick. I try and stay positive. I really do. But I just feel that moving forward, compared to what the other teams around us have done, I know it's a Premier League season. Everyone's going to beat everybody. Like I said, yesterday proved that with Coventry getting the first win and what Brighton did against the champions and so on and so forth. They were brilliant, Brighton, I thought, by the way, against Arsenal. But today, I just thought that we weren't up for it. I think players like Luke Shaw are still playing. You know, every centre-back at United I've got a little bit of a problem with. Martinez, I think, is a little bit overrated. I know he's a World Cup winner. I want to do a little bit of that, but he can't stay fit. I don't think Dallow's very good. I'm just really negative today. I don't like Cunha up front. We haven't got another centre forward. We've only got Cesco, but he's out injured. And honestly, as much as I like Carrick, but I really can just see him get in the can before Christmas. I don't know what you guys feel. And the one thing is, I don't really want to be this mainline fan that blames the owners because I'm 75 % sure, but 25 % not. You've got to say that the one main phenomenon throughout all this is the owners. Like, we're just... Like, I heard a fan speak to you guys a couple of weeks ago when I was on hold, and he said that we're, like, shopping at Tesco's and, like, everyone else is shopping at, like, Marks and Spencer's or whatever. I really like Tesco's. But it's true. Well, listen, I don't doubt that, Chris. But my point is, is that we're not... We're not really... Look at Man City. Look at what they've just done with Enzo and Elliot Anderson and the young... Is he Moroccan, lad? The money they're spending. And we're just buying players like Santos for 50 million from Chelsea. I mean, I'm not sure what he offers. He hasn't had much of a chance. I like Boliba, but again, he hasn't played yet. And I'm just really struggling to stay positive. We were so poor today against a bottom team. And to answer your question, I think it's a better point to fill a minute. Yeah, I'm just not overly positive. And I worry for Carrick moving forward. I like Carrick. I like the way he speaks to the media. I like the way he deals with you guys. But I do worry for him. I really do. And I just think that whoever goes in there at the moment is going to suffer the same fate. We've seen it time and time again. Speaker 4 (8:42) Van Gaal, Ranić said it, we need open heart surgery and so on and so forth. And I really don't think you're going to have one main night fan that's going to be positive this evening ringing you guys. I'll be so surprised if there is. Speaker 5 (8:55) It Speaker 4 (8:56) wasn't great today. And listen, I'm sorry for being so negative. I'd like to be a bit more positive, but there you are. It is what it is. Speaker 5 (9:03) Thank you so much for starting off. 6-0-6. Will we get any positive Manchester United fans? Eddie, are you one? No, definitely Speaker 6 (9:10) not, Speaker 5 (9:11) mate, and I'm Speaker 6 (9:11) sorry, but the guy makes that previous call that we're shopping in the indoor and nobody else is shopping in the harrods. But my point is, Michael Carrick, what had he achieved at Middlesbrough? What was his philosophy at Middlesbrough? There wasn't any. He ended up getting a tin fact. He's bought the same... Eddie, Eddie, Eddie, just Speaker 5 (9:36) got to stop you, it's a bad line, we've just got to go now to George Cummings, he's in the tunnel with Arbeloa, the Fulham manager. Speaker 8 (9:42) Thanks Robbie. Alvaro, what do you make of Fulham today? Speaker 7 (9:45) Well, now I'm a little bit upset and disappointed for how we conceded the goal, and the last moment of the game, I think the first victory was so close, yes, I know that in front of us was a big team. but we did a great effort and I think the victory was so close. Speaker 8 (10:07) How good was your team today? Because as you say, you were just minutes away from winning. Speaker 7 (10:11) Yes, I think we did a good job. Of course, Manchester had their chances, but we had so many chances also to score and we knew that we have to work so hard if we want to beat them. For me, they are a big squad with top players and we controlled them very well and also we were brave with the ball and we have some good moments for us. Speaker 8 (10:35) What have you changed in recent weeks? Because it's a point at Anfield, you've won in the Cup in the week and now you've been unlucky not here to win today. So what's changed from the start to the season? Speaker 7 (10:44) I don't know. I think we are just improving. We are playing games and we are a new team, a new coach, new players. So we are getting to know each other and of course we will improve. I'm sure. But I think this is the way that we want to play with this attitude, this mentality, this character, this ambition. And we know that this month was going to be so hard. We faced Chelsea, Liverpool away, Sunderland away, now Man United. So, yes, it was very difficult. Speaker 7 (11:24) We see the future very positive. Speaker 8 (11:27) Just what do you take of Josh King? He got booked. He was on the edge of the box. I just wondered as manager what you made of happened. He got booked. Do you think that was fair? Do you think it was the right decision? I Speaker 7 (11:36) have to see on TV because, of course, when you are there, you are asking and I'm waiting for a foul for you. But, yeah, I prefer not to say anything about the referee now. Speaker 8 (11:50) And just winds round the corner, you feel it's confident it's coming? Your first league win? Speaker 7 (11:54) Yes, for sure. I am so, so confident that the victory will come. We have an important month in October with important games. The way that we are playing, I think the victory will come. Thank Speaker 5 (12:07) you very much. Back to you, Robbie. Thank you so much, George. Eddie, back to you. Your line's better, Ed. Speaker 6 (12:14) OK, my friend. Going back to Michael Carrick. Also, I think Jason Wilcox has got a lot to answer for as well. I know we're not flush with money at the moment. We have wasted a lot, a lot of money over the years. But I can't see where the improvement has gone with Michael Carroll. I can't see him improving his side. They're walking around. Gary Neville mentioned it on the telly. Both sides are walking. This is not Man United. We don't walk. We run. So I feel that... Speaker 6 (12:45) You're saying there's Speaker 2 (12:46) a Speaker 6 (12:46) lack of effort? Is Speaker 2 (12:48) that what you're saying, Eddie? There's a lack of effort in the Manchester United Speaker 6 (12:52) team? Massively. The training, I don't think the training's good enough. Speaker 2 (12:57) There's not a lack of effort. It's not a lack of effort. I mean, do you see that, Robert? Did Speaker 6 (13:03) you watch today's game? Speaker 2 (13:05) Yeah, I watched the game. Speaker 6 (13:07) The Speaker 2 (13:08) game against Brighton? Yeah, I was at the game against Brighton. Speaker 6 (13:13) Brighton looked like they had 12 players on the pitch. Speaker 2 (13:16) Yeah, yeah. I'd agree with that, and it's worrying. We were Speaker 6 (13:22) schooled by Brighton. Speaker 2 (13:23) Okay, but you're having a pop at Michael Carrick here. I mean, Michael Carrick. I certainly am, yes. Right, Michael Carrick last season, whatever anybody says, he did an incredible job. Right, so why, how many games at the start of the season now? Five games, whatever it is. Why after five games then are Manchester United fans judging him and writing him off? Speaker 6 (13:51) hitting the team. We've got Dorgoo and Dallop. They got a two and a three against Brighton the other night and they both played today. I'm sorry, that's not acceptable. This is not. Speaker 2 (14:03) So who do you want in charge then? Who do you want in charge then? Who do you want in charge then if you don't want character? Speaker 6 (14:11) I would like Ferguson back down there for a fortnight just to kick those boys up the button. Because there's no control whatsoever. They come and go, do as they like. There's no structure in place. There's no, oh, it's not a problem. We're playing next week. We get a two Wednesday. We're playing Saturday. There's nothing there. Where is it? We've got youth players. Speaker 6 (14:39) Che Lacey should have come on today. I'm sorry, Che Lacey was outstanding on Wednesday night. But Speaker 2 (14:45) he scored a good goal in the first 10 minutes and then, you know, he didn't have a great game after that. He was on the periphery. But you're saying about no structure at Manchester United and then you want to bring Sir Alex back for two weeks, just two weeks. I mean, is that structure? Just to give the change and the shake-up. Just a short-term shake-up. That's what Manchester United need. Fergie in for two weeks. They don't Speaker 6 (15:14) necessarily need that, but I think they need somebody with more authority. Michael Carrick's a yes-man. Speaker 2 (15:19) Michael Carrick's a yes-man. He's a very Speaker 6 (15:22) polite Speaker 2 (15:22) person on television. You can't say that he's a yes-man. But here's one for you. So you want Fergie back for two weeks. Then who do you want after that? Speaker 6 (15:32) They were mentioning Per Conte, weren't they? Speaker 2 (15:36) Antonio Conte. Speaker 6 (15:37) Looks like Antonio Conte could be in the frame to come in. Not too sure about that, but he's old school. He don't take no nonsense. He's a bit fiery. I think that's what the players need. I'm sorry, but they've had it too easy for too long. Look at that black back four. Did all those players play for Ten Hag? You go back to that. Those same back four played under Ten Hag. Now, where is the progress? Where's the forward thinking? If you Speaker 2 (16:16) say where's the progress, Michael Carrick, when he went in last season, got a tune out of the players. They finished third. So that's where the improvement was. I mean, is it? I don't know, Rob. I mean, you're a current manager. Is all this stuff? The only thing I'd say is, you know, we haven't been into the season very long and all of a sudden, you know, Michael Carrick, is he being judged? I understand it's a huge club, but, you know, should Manchester United fans be a bit more patient with him after what he achieved last season? Do you know Speaker 5 (16:49) what makes me laugh, Chris? I listened to your commentary the night was good, really good. That was good. But after the game, you listen to pundits and in general, by the way, so in general, when a team like a Brighton or somebody like a good team with a philosophy win a game, I hear people just in general saying, oh, they're a well-coached team. They're well-coached. It's a throwaway line because Brighton didn't look a well-coached team when they were losing. in previous games. So when you can see goals and did Man United look a good coached team when they were 2-0 up? Yes, they did. But when they lose the game, people are saying Brighton are well coached and compared to Man United, well, Man United are a well coached team. They've got Michael Carrick, Steve Holland. Steve Holland, one of the best coaches. So every team in the Premier League will be well, every team that goes onto the field of play at most levels will be well coached. So this throwaway line of, well, they're well-coached. Well, they've won the game 3-2. They were being well-coached when they were 2-0 down. So it's a throwaway line. It drives me mad. And can Speaker 2 (17:55) I tell you what drives me mad as well? When people say that players don't care and there's a lack of effort. I just, I mean, it may be, there may be in the odd case, but most players playing any level of football. Give it their all. They may lack a bit of confidence, lack a bit of belief, but Manchester United... Speaker 5 (18:17) You've hit the nail on the head there because one game this season, Chris, we lost the game. And after the game, I was like thinking, you know, did my players, you know, some of them didn't look bothered. That was my thinking. I said it to them. But when the data come through, they ran the most of the season. And I had to apologise to them because I said, you didn't, you tried, you tried your hardest, you lost belief. When we went 2-3-0 down... you lost belief, but you still tried. You still, but subconsciously, and fans will see, well, they're losing or they're not playing well, well, they're not trying. It's nonsense. It's nonsense. They all try. And my harsh lesson for me as a manager was when I had the thought process, well, we're 2-0 down, 3-0 down, you know, they've stopped closing the ball down, they tend to take, well, they still try because the data backed it up. It was just they lost belief in that moment, but they still tried the hardest. So it's a big learning curve for me when people say that. Now, the truth is they always, always try. They've got personal respect and respect for their families and hopefully for the club and for the manager. So I agree with you 100%. Do you want to go to Sean, a Liverpool fan, or Ali, the Man United fan? Speaker 2 (19:24) Let's go to Sean. Let's get away from Manchester United just quickly because Liverpool, where do you think Liverpool are at, Sean? For the six or something? Yeah, Speaker 3 (19:34) do you know what? I've spoken to you a couple of times and I was a bit nervous for the kind of face. Speaker 3 (19:41) with the new manager's style of play. And I think we were all kind of half expecting four threes and maybe five twos. OK, the first game of the season was a two-all draw and that's what we thought we were getting. But it seems that over the last four or five games, we've kind of looked like the defence could be going in the right direction. Now, Kirk has a side. We all know about him. But I think if we can get the defence sorted, with everyone beating everyone this season, as it's proved, Brighton against Arsenal, Brentford against Chelsea there, I think that Liverpool could have a good season if we just go on that upward trajectory. And I'm happy that the defence seems to be kind of playing the way we want it to. Now, I'm not going to be overly confident and say we're going to win this and we're going to win that. But I'm pleasantly surprised with the start of the season, considering that the attacking players can only get better. So, yeah, I'm positive and I'm happy. Speaker 2 (20:32) Where were you, Sean, on, I said in the opener, Alexander Isak? Written off last season. Difficult season. He arrived. There was the issue at Newcastle. He had a really bad injury as well to contend with. Never really got going. But is he proving a lot of people wrong now? Speaker 3 (20:53) Do you know if he just does what Haaland does? I'm not comparing him to Haaland, but you kind of have to in this league. He barely touched the ball today, a few little moments, but see if he keeps doing that every... If he gets a goal every other game and he wins the game for Liverpool like he did today, maybe 10, 15 games a season, that's all that you want. And listen, he does look sharper. You can tell he had a good pre-season, he had an OK World Cup, and he looks like he's actually a player. I think last year... I think the old saying goes, you know, he was trying to get fit and he was probably trying too hard and